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2012-12-28 4:02 PM

Master
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Houston, TX
Subject: What's your definition of "Rich"

My definition of "Rich" (in monetary terms only) is top 10% gross income (and you could pretty easily convince me of top 25%, really).

My logic:

I kind of figure that if you make more than 90% of the rest of the US, then I can't come up with an argument for you NOT being rich.  90% of EVERYONE else makes less than you do.  Top 10% of your class are the "smart" ones right?  Top 10% of finishers are the fast ones, right?  Top 10% of anything is the cream of the crop, right?

I'm not asking whether the rich should pay more or not, just who would you look at and say "now that person is 'rich'."

How do you define "Rich", monetarily speaking?  And what's your reasoning for it? 



2012-12-28 4:17 PM
in reply to: #4552270

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Elite
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Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"

"Rich" to me means "options". I think there are many people that make good money, and spend good money. They live no different that the rest... pay check to paycheck so to speak just more expensive toys. But savings accounts, CDs, liquid assets, long term investments, not having to use credit... not worrying if you don't work for a year... that's rich. Options.

 

If you asked me growing up, what I make today I would be rich. But I assure you, I'm not. Rather shocked at what I make, and yet no where near rich.

2012-12-28 4:27 PM
in reply to: #4552270

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Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"
2012-12-28 4:31 PM
in reply to: #4552270

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Expert
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Boise, ID
Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"

 

Anyone who makes more than me, subject to go up according to my future earnings.

2012-12-28 4:39 PM
in reply to: #4552270

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Pro
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Bellingham, WA
Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"

When I was a kid I always equated "rich" with a million dollars.  Whether that was net worth or annual income I couldn't say but just thought a million was the threshold.

Now, I know many people with net worths well in excess of a million and I do not consider most of them to be rich because most of that is house value, retirement, etc. and they would not be able to sustain their standard of living without continued substantial income.

Rich is a very relative term depending on where you live and throughout history.  I am sure that in some third world countries I would be considered very rich but not so much in the developed world.  I also think I am very rich compared to how kings lived in centuries past and even as late as the turn of the century I have access to things one could have only dreamed of at the time.  In fact, I would be dead if I had lived 30 years ago with health problems (cancer) I had that were uncurable then.

In today's American society, I don't think of it in terms of the top percentage as much as an absolute value.  I do not know what the income/net worth of top 1% or 10% is but a net worth of $10 million or annual net income (after taxes) of $1 million is rich in my mind. 



Edited by popsracer 2012-12-28 4:42 PM
2012-12-28 4:46 PM
in reply to: #4552270

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Master
1970
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Somewhere on the Tennessee River
Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"

I've been to more than a few third world countries.     There, rich is not having to worry about having enough food to feed your family for a day, enough clean water for a day, and having a comfortable dry place to sleep for a night.

All other "definitions" of "rich" are nothing but splitting hairs.



2012-12-28 5:02 PM
in reply to: #4552322

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Elite
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Boise
Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"
popsracer - 2012-12-28 3:39 PM

When I was a kid I always equated "rich" with a million dollars.  Whether that was net worth or annual income I couldn't say but just thought a million was the threshold.

Now, I know many people with net worths well in excess of a million and I do not consider most of them to be rich because most of that is house value, retirement, etc. and they would not be able to sustain their standard of living without continued substantial income.

Rich is a very relative term depending on where you live and throughout history.  I am sure that in some third world countries I would be considered very rich but not so much in the developed world.  I also think I am very rich compared to how kings lived in centuries past and even as late as the turn of the century I have access to things one could have only dreamed of at the time.  In fact, I would be dead if I had lived 30 years ago with health problems (cancer) I had that were uncurable then.

In today's American society, I don't think of it in terms of the top percentage as much as an absolute value.  I do not know what the income/net worth of top 1% or 10% is but a net worth of $10 million or annual net income (after taxes) of $1 million is rich in my mind. 

 

Rich is owning a Porsche

2012-12-28 5:24 PM
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2012-12-28 5:25 PM
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Veteran
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Colorado Springs
Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"

 

Rich is owning a Porsche

 

As long as you don't include the 914 or 924

2012-12-28 5:34 PM
in reply to: #4552270

Extreme Veteran
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Tucson
Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"

Top 10% seriously?????

It's got to be 50% or more.  Being rich is having possessions, wealth, money or resources.

We Americans have so much its ridiculous.   Have you seen the consumerism in this country?

Go to the mall, hang out in line at Best Buy on Black Friday, see how many people are going to movies on the weekend.

The disposable income that Americans use is insane.  Compared to the rest of the world, probably 95% of Americans are rich.

2012-12-28 5:37 PM
in reply to: #4552370

Elite
4564
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Boise
Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"
Teejaay - 2012-12-28 4:24 PM
JoshR - 2012-12-28 4:02 PM
popsracer - 2012-12-28 3:39 PM

When I was a kid I always equated "rich" with a million dollars.  Whether that was net worth or annual income I couldn't say but just thought a million was the threshold.

Now, I know many people with net worths well in excess of a million and I do not consider most of them to be rich because most of that is house value, retirement, etc. and they would not be able to sustain their standard of living without continued substantial income.

Rich is a very relative term depending on where you live and throughout history.  I am sure that in some third world countries I would be considered very rich but not so much in the developed world.  I also think I am very rich compared to how kings lived in centuries past and even as late as the turn of the century I have access to things one could have only dreamed of at the time.  In fact, I would be dead if I had lived 30 years ago with health problems (cancer) I had that were uncurable then.

In today's American society, I don't think of it in terms of the top percentage as much as an absolute value.  I do not know what the income/net worth of top 1% or 10% is but a net worth of $10 million or annual net income (after taxes) of $1 million is rich in my mind. 

 

Rich is owning a Porsche

My second car was a Porsche .. when I was 17 .. I was NOT rich! 

I believe Pops has a relatively new and shiny Porsche 911 Turbo, if my memory serves me right. He also was unwilling to bring it to Boise to give me a ride in it.



2012-12-28 5:45 PM
in reply to: #4552382

Pro
6520
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Bellingham, WA
Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"
JoshR - 2012-12-28 3:37 PM
Teejaay - 2012-12-28 4:24 PM
JoshR - 2012-12-28 4:02 PM
popsracer - 2012-12-28 3:39 PM

When I was a kid I always equated "rich" with a million dollars.  Whether that was net worth or annual income I couldn't say but just thought a million was the threshold.

Now, I know many people with net worths well in excess of a million and I do not consider most of them to be rich because most of that is house value, retirement, etc. and they would not be able to sustain their standard of living without continued substantial income.

Rich is a very relative term depending on where you live and throughout history.  I am sure that in some third world countries I would be considered very rich but not so much in the developed world.  I also think I am very rich compared to how kings lived in centuries past and even as late as the turn of the century I have access to things one could have only dreamed of at the time.  In fact, I would be dead if I had lived 30 years ago with health problems (cancer) I had that were uncurable then.

In today's American society, I don't think of it in terms of the top percentage as much as an absolute value.  I do not know what the income/net worth of top 1% or 10% is but a net worth of $10 million or annual net income (after taxes) of $1 million is rich in my mind. 

 

Rich is owning a Porsche

My second car was a Porsche .. when I was 17 .. I was NOT rich! 

I believe Pops has a relatively new and shiny Porsche 911 Turbo, if my memory serves me right. He also was unwilling to bring it to Boise to give me a ride in it.

Josh, if I could fit my tri-bike on it I'd take it to Boise in a heartbeat and I would love nothing better than to scare the heck out of you. Surprised

2012-12-28 6:26 PM
in reply to: #4552270

Pro
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Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"

That's a tough one.  I remember when I was a teenager I dreamed of making $10/hr.  to me that was really rich when I was making $3.35/hr. at my job at the car wash.  lol

It's hard for me to quantify it, but to me rich is when you have enough money in the bank/investments that you don't have to work anymore and can sustain the lifestyle you choose indefinitely.  Obviously that number varies a lot for different people based on their lifestyle they choose to live.

My wife and I have always said we'd like to have $4M in the bank/investments and would consider that our "number".

If you define rich purely based on the national percentile of your salary that's not a very good one because if you lose your job you go from Rich to poor instantly.  Rich is something that should be sustainable without new income, IMHO.

2012-12-28 8:13 PM
in reply to: #4552270

Expert
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Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"

In the book, "The Millionaire Next-Door", the authors first objective was to find rich people (they were hired by a bank that wanted to sell trust services).  They looked for the things that many have posted on this thread; fancy cars, homes, big incomes, etc.  What they found was that these people were not necessarily wealthy, they spent what they had (one doctor made $700k per year and didn't have any savings).  The really wealthy (high net-worth individuals) didn't waste their money, that's is why they were rich.

 

2012-12-29 1:10 AM
in reply to: #4552270

Master
3127
2000100010025
Sunny Southern Cal
Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"

I've learned that if you define success by financial measure (income), you will never be satisfied.  However much you make/have, there's always someone who makes more, and you want more.  For those of you who have been earning a living for a while, ask yourself how much income you'd need to feel more successful.  Then look at your current income and ask yourself if your current level is, in fact, an amount that you would have identified as being a successful income at some past point.  If so, do you feel like you've arrived?  The same can be said of performance in endurance sports, as well.

I think of a friend who I viewed as having "made it" once upon a time.  He'd cleared over $10M from the sale of his business.  He wasn't at all happy or satisfied.  He wanted $100M.  Wasn't going to be happy until he got there.

When I was at my most financially successful point in life, I was the least happy I have ever been in my adult years.

So, rich?  I really can't tell you what "rich" is in terms of finances or income.  I don't think the financially "rich" necessarily feel "rich."  I bet in most cases, they don't.

Now, ask me if I feel rich when I watch my kid score a goal or make a nice assist in a soccer game, drain 4 straight 3-pointers in a basketball game, or when I'm lying with my boys under the shelter of our tent in a rain storm in the middle of a national park and enjoying some good laughs together.  That's rich.  Sorry, I know you specifically didn't ask for that.  But it's the only definition I can offer up.

2012-12-29 1:46 AM
in reply to: #4552270

Member
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Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"
Personally and only in a definition unrelated to the current political situation, I don't think that you can define who is rich without reference to wealth. Income is in almost all instances a trailing indicator that might be correlated with wealth but may not. If I won millions in the lottery, spent it all and was now homeless, I am a moron, but not rich. I would define rich as having enough so that working is a choice, not a requirement for more or less your current lifestyle. I have also spent a fair amount of time in really poor parts of the world. Yep, most of us are tremendously wealthy by global standards and could retire to Bangladesh (just an arbitrary choice) tomorrow and never work again. But almost no one here would choose to do so. I'm not saying that it is wrong but I think if you define everyone you know and or meet on a regular basis as rich, it isn't a particularly helpful definition.


2012-12-29 7:14 AM
in reply to: #4552270

Pro
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the Alabama part of Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"

I remember an old episode of the Cosby show, where Theo asks if they are rich. Claire says no, because rich people's money works for them, while the Huxstables worked for their money. That always struck me as a really good working definition of being rich, as opposed to well-to-do, or comfortable, or whatever.

Being rich has more to do with how much wealth you have, rather than how much money you make.If you have so much wealth earning its own income that it basically means you can sit around all the time and still have all the things in life you need/want, you are rich. So, although we are in the top 5% income-wise, we are not rich, because if we stopped working today, we would soon be selling off things to pay for food and heat. And that is because we are still paying down the debt we had to go into in order to train for the professions we are in now, that pay us well, but not ridiculously.

I would say that we are comfortable - since we don't worry about how much the day to day things we need will cost. I was actually thinking about this recently at the grocery store, as I remember being the same age as my daughter and having to keep track of how much we were spending at the grocery store so that we could afford it all. Or having to stop the car on the turnpike and search the seats and floor for loose change so we could afford to get off at the exit we wanted, rather than sooner and find back-roads to our destination. 

I realize that the US as a whole is much richer than most other countries, and so even most of our "poor" people are richer than the destitute poor elsewhere. But that is not a completely fair comparison - making $40k a year will go a lot further in, say, Nebraska than Manhattan. 

2012-12-29 8:07 AM
in reply to: #4552769

Champion
6046
5000100025
New York, NY
Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"

I am pretty much in agreement with GB

 

My personal definition of rich is those who could stop working and still live out their lives comfortably.  

My salary, in Manhattan, makes me firmly middle class - and no I cannot stop working I would quickly be in trouble. If you apply percentages I would fall in that 25% for sure and no way am I rich.  No, I do not look at cost of groceries - but to me that makes me middle class.

2012-12-29 8:42 AM
in reply to: #4552270

Expert
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Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"
Rich to me = having enough $ to do whatever I want whenever I want! I have come to accept that this will likely never happen and I'm ok with that. However I plan to have a hefty retirement through my investments and plan to retire by 55 and "hope" to live comfortably for the rest of my life. According to some retirement calculators it's gonna take a few million $ for this to be possible....sigh, only 20 more years to go!!
2012-12-29 9:54 AM
in reply to: #4552270

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"
I think wealth is very aligned with age as well. Many people who are currently retired have pensions that are equivalent to 4m in cash. I think the backlash on millionaires is scary. If you don't have a pension and you don't plan on drawing on social security ( which I hope the younger generation isn't) you will need a lot of saved money to fund you retirement. General rule of thumb is not to pull more than 4% of your portfolio in the first year. So if you want 100k a year in today's dollars you need 2.5m adjusted up for inflation. Or 1m in savings will only provide 40k/yr. I sure hope people are planning to save at least a million. I think incomes over 250k/ yr should be able to provide a rich lifestyle with good savings. Although this is largely impacted by lifestyle choices.
2012-12-31 9:38 AM
in reply to: #4552270

Master
2725
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Washington, DC Metro
Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"

"Rich" is tough to decide.  I'd think that most people would say a figure that is more than what they make/are worth.   I'm sure many would consider me rich... I'm not one of them.  I'm sure that I fall into the mythical top 10% or pretty damn close... the only problem is that so does Bill Gates and Warren Buffet and I'd bet that they make a bit more than I do.  

I live a comfortable life, and I'm happy for what I have every single day, but I am in no way, shape, or form "rich".  At least not monetarily.  



2012-12-31 9:41 AM
in reply to: #4552824

Master
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Houston, TX
Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"

skipg - 2012-12-29 8:42 AM Rich to me = having enough $ to do whatever I want whenever I want!

No matter how "Rich" I am, I will never be able to do whatever I want whenever I want.

I'm married. 

2012-12-31 10:26 AM
in reply to: #4552270

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"
I think for the purposes of taxes, it should be based on money available for discretionary expenses.  Take the averages of expenses for various regions, and then rich means you have 50% more than that.  For people who just have wealth and live off that, tax them based on something a bit different.
2012-12-31 10:47 AM
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Expert
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Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"
To me rich is more the mentality of the individual. To me rich is having enough money to where you cannot understand why I cannot afford to attend the family functions several times a year. Or that my clothes dont fit that great because I cant afford new ones. Or why I would wear second hand clothes from a thrift store. Or why I eat bread with hotsauce sometimes saying you'd never eat that it's gross (ya, well you've never been hungry). Rich is a mind set. If you have enough money to be ignorant, you are rich. I agree that this applies to most Americans.
2012-12-31 10:49 AM
in reply to: #4552270

Master
4101
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Denver
Subject: RE: What's your definition of "Rich"

I agree with a lot f this esp. Sevenzulu & Gearboy.  I think I'd also add that in our country there is a lot of pressure to keep up with the Jones's.  We don't really measure success by how we're doing, we measure it more by how we're doing compared to the guy doing just a little bit better than we are, and that's what we aspire to.  Compared to Bill Gates I'm a massive failure and really poor.  Compared to a homeless guy living off of food stamps I'm a huge success and am raking it in.  In reality most people aren't trying to become Bill Gates, they want to be like Frank down the street who has that RV that I can almost afford, but not quite. 

I like the definition like Tuwood put out there that's being rich is basically not having to work, but the problem is that still depends on measuring yourself  against everyone too.  I could make $250k, live in a nice house with a couple of cars, eat at nice restaurants and probably be considered by most to be somewhat wealthy, but not be able to sustain that lifestyle without working.  Or I could make $250k, live in a modest house in a modest neighborhood, take the bus to work, not eat out, have no cable or cell phone and save all my money so that I could retire at 40 and not have to work, but few people would probably consider that wealthy.

In the end I think my definition would have to include something about the ability to buy positional goods - things you only buy because you're keeping up with your neighbors, which I think is a little different from just having extra money to spend on non-necessities.  I might have a little extra money to spend on a tv, which isn't a necessity - if I'm doing average might be able to afford a 40".  If I'm wealthy I can afford to keep up with my rich psychologist neighbor and go with the 60" without breaking the bank, even though a 40" tv would do just fine.

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