General Discussion Triathlon Talk » IM? Too soon? Rss Feed  
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2009-09-17 8:56 AM

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Subject: IM? Too soon?
Ok, a little background. I've been training for an HIM all summer. Last weekend I did the 112 mile "Assault on Sugarloaf" (google it) as a test of my bike readiness, strength, and endurance. I finished in just under 7 hours (its an extremely hilly course) and I was surprised at how strong I felt at the end of it all. I really expected to be wiped out. My longest ride up to that point had been 85 miles on flat terrain. Having completed this milestone distance I'm getting IM fever. I'm a strong swimmer and have no doubt that right now I could finish the swim in the 1:10ish neighborhood. 112 on the bike. Check. The run is where I'm unsure of myself. I've never ran a marathon or even a half marathon as a race. My longest training run to date is 12.6 miles (2 weeks ago). I'm not a fast runner, my long training runs are at about a 10.5-11 mpm pace. My legs are sore but I generally feel pretty good after I'm done. My weekly mileage right now is about 35 mpw. Up until recently an IM seemed so daunting that I wasn't even interested in trying one. Now I'm hungry to at least try it. The Great Floridian is October 24th. Given my current level of training would it be stupid to give this IM a shot? The marathon scares the crap outta me but I'm willing to do what I can to get through it realizing I just want to finish it. My recent tri history consists of 6 races over the last year including 3 oly's this summer with the most recent finish in 2:22:50. What say you?


2009-09-17 8:59 AM
in reply to: #2411308

Iron Donkey
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Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?

Since you really don't blog enough information, I can't really assess with what you provided.

But, but time alone, it seems that you could do it.

I would consider getting a plan and/or a coach, and put the time in, if anything.  Get your nutrition down.

Come back with more info and we can probably better assist. 'K?

2009-09-17 8:59 AM
in reply to: #2411308

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Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?
GKnight - 2009-09-17 10:56 AM

The Great Floridian is October 24th. Given my current level of training would it be stupid to give this IM a shot?


IMO, yes.

What's the rush?  IM distance events aren't going anywhere so why not find one that you can properly train for instead of jumping into a race at the last minute.

Shane
2009-09-17 9:01 AM
in reply to: #2411308

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Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?
Very few people actually run the full marathon during the race.  And many people do an iron distance race without having ever run a marathon.

So if you feel that you can comfortably do the swim and bike (doing them separate is a completely different animal than together in succession) with reasonable effort and keeping yourself in check, then there is not really any reason that you couldn't give it a shot.  Just go into it knowing that your marathon split may not be that great and there may be a lot of walking.

The thing that would be missing is any sort of nutrition "training" for the event.

If you have been training all summer for a HIM, then when is that race?  Have you done it yet???
2009-09-17 9:02 AM
in reply to: #2411319

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Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?
1stTimeTri - 2009-09-17 9:59 AM

Since you really don't blog enough information, I can't really assess with what you provided.

But, but time alone, it seems that you could do it.

I would consider getting a plan and/or a coach, and put the time in, if anything.  Get your nutrition down.

Come back with more info and we can probably better assist. 'K?



longest run to date - 12.6 miles
date of IM - 10/24

you really think he can get his running where it needs to be in ~ a month?

when is the HIM you are training for?
2009-09-17 9:04 AM
in reply to: #2411308

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2009-09-17 9:04 AM
in reply to: #2411308

over a barrier
Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?
This Ocotber or next October? If you're talking about this October, Why? What's the rush? Ironman isn't going anywhere, I would recommend training specifically for the event and not just jump into the race....a few minor mistakes can make for a vary long day. The last half of the marathon can be ugly even when you're properly prepared.



Edited by running2far 2009-09-17 9:06 AM
2009-09-17 9:14 AM
in reply to: #2411329

Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?

Daremo - 2009-09-17 10:01 AM Very few people actually run the full marathon during the race.  And many people do an iron distance race without having ever run a marathon.

Yes, but I'm also assuming that most people who've properly trained for an Ironman, have done enough running training where they COULD finish a standalone marathon fairly comfortably, or at least followed an Iron-distance plan that incorporated the required mileage...sounds like this guy has not...

 

2009-09-17 9:18 AM
in reply to: #2411308

Elite
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Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?
i see these threads on here all the time....

you actually seem to be in a pretty good shape but why rush an IM event without a proper training.  i don't quite grasp why everyone always wants to rush doing an IM. 

from everything i have seen doing a full IM event is a task i wouldn't want to just do for doing sake.....so i can run around and tell everyone.  i want to be fully prepared so i can do it well and feel strong till the end and most of all have fun.
2009-09-17 9:27 AM
in reply to: #2411308

Champion
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Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?
If you are truly averaging 35 miles a week of running (and have put up the Oly time you mention), then, IMO, it's not an outrageous leap to take it on.  (I wouldn't, but that's just me.)  Frankly, from what I've seen here over the last couple years, a pretty high percentage of people go into their first IMs with no run over about 15-16 miles (3 hours at a pace >12:00/mile).  If you can manage a three hour run at an 11:15/mi pace (16 miles) in the next two weeks, you could probably do it.  The run will suck (you'll walk a lot), but you'll finish.  You definitely need to make sure you have a firm handle on the nutrition side of things, though.
2009-09-17 9:36 AM
in reply to: #2411308

Expert
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Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?
Wow, Sugarloaf is one mean SOB, and a total of 112 with Sugarloaf is no small feat.


2009-09-17 9:54 AM
in reply to: #2411308

Expert
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Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?

Is your goal to experience the distance and just complete the race?  Sure, knock yourself out.  But, your potential performance could be soooo much better if you trained appropriately for an IM next year.

Assuming that you're all set to complete this IM 10/24/09, than you have almost no time to improve your level of fitness significantly.  Here are three ideas that might help you to prepare. 

1) Bike/Run Bricks.  A short run after all of your bikes is a good idea and you are probably already doing bricks, but just in case you aren't, make sure to incorporate.  Long bike rides (not fast) followed by a few miles run will really help you to train your legs for the transition from bike to run and will help you decide if you are physically fit enough for the IM.  Do many of these. 

2) As someone said, you need to dial in your nutrition so that you do not have problems on race day.  If you have done your 1/2 IM, you have an idea of why this is so important.  How many calories per hour?  What amount of carbs, etc?  You must practice eating/drinking what you intend to use on race day.

3) Pacing.  IMOO last weekend showed really slow run times by AG and proracers who cooked themselves on the bike.  You need to go into the race with a good pacing strategy for both the bike and the run.  This can be complicated and is personal.  Experience really helps here so a coach could prove invaluable.

Good luck.

2009-09-17 9:55 AM
in reply to: #2411308

Triathlete Nation ~ Texas!
Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?

Why solicit the opinions of others when it comes to doing an IM?  I don't know that I have ever read a response regarding this very question, that was..."Sure, do it.  Have fun with it. It hurts, but you seem fit, so go for it."  Everyone always seems to say... No, not so soon, why rush it, need a coach, train more, etc....    ONLY You truly know where you are in your fitness and readiness.  If you are confident in your fitness, then go out and do it!  You may get injured, the suck level & pain may be higher than that if you trained more... then again, it may not.  You can train for a year, and show up on race day and have a GI issue that causes you to not keep food or water down... and your done!  All essentially for NOT.  I am not advocating doing IM's on a whim... I do believe in training (more for the recovery afterwards and injury prevention than for making it through the actual event)... But there are countless folks who have taken on the IM on much less and had success (and I am not defining success by simply finishing in 16:59:59.... although, that is actually the ultimate goal.)  

So you decide for yourself, and take ALL that is posted here with a grain of sea salt...  Including this post, because none of us have the TRUE answer to this question... only opinions.  And we all know the analogy of those...    Good luck! 



2009-09-17 10:00 AM
in reply to: #2411422

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Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?
tcovert - 2009-09-17 10:27 AM

  Frankly, from what I've seen here over the last couple years, a pretty high percentage of people go into their first IMs with no run over about 15-16 miles (3 hours at a pace >12:00/mile).


Is this anecdotal or have you done research? That just doesn't seem right to me, but I haven't been around here for a couple years.

You've got me quite curious. I'm gonna go start a thread....
2009-09-17 10:15 AM
in reply to: #2411339

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Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?
JeepFleeb - 2009-09-17 10:04 AM Could you finish?  Sure.

Could you perform anywhere near your potential?  Doubtful.

Would it be as fun as going into an IM properly trained?  Not a chance.


x2 
2009-09-17 10:16 AM
in reply to: #2411308

Elite
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Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?
I would train for it specifically.  Taking a year to train following a first HIM is a decent time frame.  Given your reported fitness 6 months would be duable, but taking 1 month, not so much.  You would have a 1 week build up and a 3 week taper.  If I were you I would train up the run over the winter, most folks do, hit a half mary in there somewhere and get a second HIM under your belt early next year with a mid summer/fall IM.  Walking a marathon at a 3 mph ish  pace = 8-9 hours (your swim and bike time combined).  The cumulative impact of s/b and then hitting a distance 3x your longest run will be nasty.  But as with all things, it is up to you. 


2009-09-17 10:29 AM
in reply to: #2411308

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?

I agree with Trin2bfast comments.

I have a feeling that you had an itch before you even posed the question.  Its ultimately up to you, if you want to scratch it or not.

Let us know what your final decision is.  I hate cliffhangers.

2009-09-17 10:41 AM
in reply to: #2411308

Master
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Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?
If you want to stumble along so you can finish in 16 hours and tell everyone your an ironman, then go for it.  If you have an goal of doing something closer to your potential then wait til next year.

I took on a half with about 8 weeks notice and I wouldn't want to take on a full with half that notice (granted you might have a better base, I don't know your real volume), but I have a sort of longer term aggressive goal of trying to break the 12 hour mark on my first full ironman and will not even sign up unless I think I have a shot at doing it...
2009-09-17 11:12 AM
in reply to: #2411329

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Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?
Daremo - 2009-09-17 10:01 AM If you have been training all summer for a HIM, then when is that race?  Have you done it yet???

This was my question as well. I think the best indicator of your IM readiness is how your HIM went.

So far, I generally agree that you're looking for some pain on race day with your current level. Note, I have not yet done an IM.
2009-09-17 11:37 AM
in reply to: #2411308

Pro
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Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?
Could you do it? Sure. (well, barring wierdness or injury or mechanical failure)

But just being able to do something doesn't mean it's a great idea.

Why not take what you learned this season, and apply it next year as a goal race?
2009-09-17 11:39 AM
in reply to: #2411523

Champion
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Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?
mrbbrad - 2009-09-17 8:00 AM
tcovert - 2009-09-17 10:27 AM

  Frankly, from what I've seen here over the last couple years, a pretty high percentage of people go into their first IMs with no run over about 15-16 miles (3 hours at a pace >12:00/mile).


Is this anecdotal or have you done research? That just doesn't seem right to me, but I haven't been around here for a couple years.

You've got me quite curious. I'm gonna go start a thread....


Answered your own question there.

But, to underscore what I said even more (the "3 hour" part, that is):  Look at the training plans you find here.  Look at the longest run.  Then start looking at the logs of people here who've done IMs and look at their run paces, both for training and their races.  This is BEGINNER Triathlete and there are a lot of 11:00-13:30/mile (non)runners here, many of them (like the OP) with an itch to do an IM.

(E.T.A.:  I'm not endorsing this, btw...I don't like time--rather than distance--based training plans, personally, for just this reason, but I understand why people use them...and, as is often noted here, training for an IM run isn't the same as training for a standalone marathon.  There was a meme running through here last year that Andy Potts never ran longer than 16 miles in training for his first IM, which wasn't actually true based on an interview with him on another site...from my perspective, people were eager to latch onto that as validation of what they were doing in their own training.  Whatever gets you to the finish line.)

Edited by tcovert 2009-09-17 11:44 AM


2009-09-17 11:40 AM
in reply to: #2411308

Veteran
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Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?
I'm new to the tri-scene or more accurately I'm back into it after 20 years. I suppose because of that I sometimes look at it differently at least from a goal stand point. A lot has changed in 20 years, especially the technology available, but the one thing that hasn't is that a triathlon is a test. It's a test to see how well prepared you are and how you execute a game plan and adapt when your plan doesn't work out. What is so wonderful about this test is that it's a test only you can grade when it's over. If your goal for this test is to simply "pass" it (finish) then I don't think anybody is going to tell you that's unreasonable. If your goal is to be at your best and be able to push hard throughout then it seems more time might be needed. Either way you make the call and the grading when it's done. Just the .02 of one person.
2009-09-17 11:50 AM
in reply to: #2411825

Champion
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Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?
TriBoilermaker - 2009-09-17 12:40 PM I'm new to the tri-scene or more accurately I'm back into it after 20 years. I suppose because of that I sometimes look at it differently at least from a goal stand point. A lot has changed in 20 years, especially the technology available, but the one thing that hasn't is that a triathlon is a test. It's a test to see how well prepared you are and how you execute a game plan and adapt when your plan doesn't work out. What is so wonderful about this test is that it's a test only you can grade when it's over. If your goal for this test is to simply "pass" it (finish) then I don't think anybody is going to tell you that's unreasonable. If your goal is to be at your best and be able to push hard throughout then it seems more time might be needed. Either way you make the call and the grading when it's done. Just the .02 of one person.


Love this analogy, TBM!!
2009-09-17 12:05 PM
in reply to: #2411308

Champion
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Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?

It always amazes me at the number of people who advise against an IM because the person might not be able to turn in the best performance of their life or someone's condition or training might not be optimal.

Good Lord, it's just a race!!!  Sign up, train and do the race!  Do the best you can and have fun.  If you think you can do better, then sign up and do the race again. 

If you are only ever gonna do one IM to punch your ticket and get bragging rights then, yeah, maybe wait until you are at the pinnacle of your triathlon career, have a couple of dozen triathlons and marathon under you belt and take your best shot. 

I can tell you this, the overwhelming majority of IM race reports you read on this site are very positive and people had the times of their lives!  And the majory if IM races on this site are first timers.  Very seldom do you see someone's race report that says, "Boy, that sucked!  I wish I had waited till (whatever) before I tried an IM".

I suppose some people look at and IM as some rite of passage....like loosing your virginity or something, but really, it's just a race.  You aren't goona win.  Just do your best, don't get hurt and have fun.  Repeat as necessary.

~Mike

2009-09-17 12:17 PM
in reply to: #2411308

Champion
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Subject: RE: IM? Too soon?
GKnight - 2009-09-17 8:56 AM

Ok, a little background. I've been training for an HIM all summer. Last weekend I did the 112 mile "Assault on Sugarloaf" (google it) as a test of my bike readiness, strength, and endurance. I finished in just under 7 hours (its an extremely hilly course) and I was surprised at how strong I felt at the end of it all. I really expected to be wiped out. My longest ride up to that point had been 85 miles on flat terrain. Having completed this milestone distance I'm getting IM fever. I'm a strong swimmer and have no doubt that right now I could finish the swim in the 1:10ish neighborhood. 112 on the bike. Check. The run is where I'm unsure of myself. I've never ran a marathon or even a half marathon as a race. My longest training run to date is 12.6 miles (2 weeks ago). I'm not a fast runner, my long training runs are at about a 10.5-11 mpm pace. My legs are sore but I generally feel pretty good after I'm done. My weekly mileage right now is about 35 mpw. Up until recently an IM seemed so daunting that I wasn't even interested in trying one. Now I'm hungry to at least try it. The Great Floridian is October 24th. Given my current level of training would it be stupid to give this IM a shot? The marathon scares the crap outta me but I'm willing to do what I can to get through it realizing I just want to finish it. My recent tri history consists of 6 races over the last year including 3 oly's this summer with the most recent finish in 2:22:50. What say you?


Based on what you said, it probably wouldn't be smart to sign up for an IM in about a month... that you haven't trained for.

You haven't been training for the nutrition part of it, and you haven't been training for the run.

Now could you finish it? Probably so.

I personally wouldn't do it, but if you want to do it... you could pull it off.

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