I guess I don't have a relgion any more

If your fiance has a child with a crazy person, trust me, you're about to find religion.

Ex-Catholic here as well......it passes.  Good luck in your marriage!

If you are a thinking, loving and caring person, you don't need ... religion.  Move forward and fill your life with love and people you love.  Leave the rituals and tithing behind.

Socks, I too was raised Catholic. I am now a member of the Lutheran church (or Catholic Lite as we refer to it in the house on occasions ). I have found religion to be a deeply personal and rewarding part of my life.  For my own reasons, the Catholic church was not the answer for me. No one has the right to make decisions for you, be it other people, or other entities all together. It is one thing if you agree to the decisions that others make for you, but in this particular case, it sounds like you really don't agree. so, we all have to figure out what we want on our own. I'm hopeful that this gives you an opportunity to look at what you are after in religion, examine what you want, what you don't want, what you are after in a marriage and move forward from there. 

Congratulations and Good Luck!!!  It may not be an easy road, but it will be rewarding none the less. 

You and your fiance, personally, should not have to have any personal contact with the ex-spouse during the annulment process.  The marriage tribunal should handle that initially with written communication.   They usually try twice to contact the person to "get their say."  If the person refuses to participate, the marriage tribunal will continue without her input.   Sometimes, they will "call other witnesses" to try to verify her state of mind at the time of the first wedding. 

She gets to "have her say" because the Church is trying to determine if she was of sound mind when she entered into the marriage contract.   If they determine that she was, then they may not grant the annulment.  The fact that she may (or may not) WANT the annulment is irrelevant.  

She's going to find out about the marriage eventually.  By starting the annulment process, you actually gain some control about when she finds out, which means you can be prepared for any action she might take.   If you wait until she finds out through the grapevine, you'll never know when she might show up raging on your doorstep.

Take a while and think about why you want a Church wedding, but are infuriated by the "hoops" that are required before you can proceed.    I'm not in any way saying you're wrong for feeling the way you do... I'm just suggesting you reflect on it. 

The Church would probably also require you to complete a pre-marriage assessment, either a series of "prep" classes, a weekend retreat, or both.  Is that something your fiance would be willing to participate in?  There may be more things to discus than just the annulment.  (FWIW, we did both, and we really found them beneficial.  Even if you aren't getting married in the church, I would recommend them)

Finally, your statement of:  "I am so sad and disappointed I can't even discuss it with my fiancé because as he is not catholic he doesn't get it."   gave me pause.  Even if he doesn't "get it" ...  "for better or worse" he's going to be the one going through it with you(no matter what you decide.)   I gently suggest discussing it with him.

Good luck.  There is much about the Church that frustrates me, too.   Hell, I used to work for the Church.   We just have to do our best to live like Christ. When it comes down to it, that's all they're asking.  And yes, it's hard.    In the end, your faith is personal, it is not the institution. 

Peace.

-  Ryan 

Ryan, as much at odds as I am with the Church over the systematic abuse of children, that's a pretty good post with some very good points.

I think your feeling of "loss of faith" or "religion" is about your losing faith in the rules of man, not the rules of god. I was raised catholic and am no more, myself, for just that reason.

But ! Congratulations on your upcoming wedding and marriage!

Thanks LB.   Francis seems to be making some slow progress in this area.   

I stayed (much like I did with the Boy Scouts) because I believe that the goal and the "soul" of the institution is being mismanaged by the men in power.   If I don't stay to help make things better, who will?  

If you ever decide to come back, the door is always open.   :^) 

First off, congratulations on your marriage.  I'm very happy for you.

My only advice on the Church is to remember one thing.  Religion is nothing more than man's attempt to reach God through ritual and rules.  I Believe in God, I do not believe in religion.  Jesus came to the earth to abolish religion.
I have posted this before, but it sums up my thoughts on religion very well.  Why I hate religion, but love Jesus

I would strongly suggest looking into Bible teaching non-denominational churches in your area.  No Church is perfect, but if they're teaching the Bible then it's at least a step in the right direction.

So, this may sound weird, but I'm glad you lost your religion.  That's a good thing.  Now that religion is out of your way, go find God. 

Tony

Never mind the church side of things.... third time for him, and he has a crazy ex, and a teenage son with a crazy mother? I don't know you, I don't know him, but think long and hard about this. Then think some more. 

i thought this and didn't want to say it........:-/

Just so you know, Catholics don't have a lock on the ritual of divorce. In Judaism it's called a Get, and you aren't considered divorced under Jewish Law until you have one. Both parties have to agree formally to the document. How Ryan describes the process in Catholicism sounds quite similar. Normally a Reform synagogue doesn't require this, but many Conservative and all Orthodox synagogues will require you to have this document to get remarried by a Rabbi.

My ex and I are on great terms. I'm pretty fortunate that we worked out the bumps and remain best friends. It's been 9 years since we separated. However, two years ago we started the process for the Get (yeah we're slow), and boy did that bring up the dirt. She walked out of there crying. We haven't gone back to the Rabbi yet. Fortunately neither of us are looking to remarry any time soon.

I wish you luck, and hope you figure out a way to work through these issues and maintain your faith.

Coffee.............spit.

I don't know which one to reply to.  Most is data I already know.  Trust me I know the catholic process and I have big problems with it in general.  His ex does know about me.  I had to file a police report against her and get an atty to get her to stop stalking me.  She already tried to hire someone to kill my fiancé so yes I would say the risk is real.  Although he lives close to her I live 1200 miles away for better or for worse.  And no that is not going to chance in the near future.  There is no job for me where he lives and I would not want to live in the same city as the ex.  She would attack me personally and professionally and its all well and good to say oh well you could sue her if that happens it doesn't matter because the damage would have been done.   So I am supposed to give up the love of my life, because we have challenges in our relationship?  Really?  Because he was married to someone crazy you are suggesting I dump him?  We are much stronger than that.  The sacrament of marriage, of what it represents in the church was what I wanted, not just some clerk saying OK you are legally bound because that is not what marriage is to me.  Why did I post here??  Well believe it or some of us don't have a whole lot of people to talk to in life. 

I have to agree with Freckle and the other posters who said there are some other problems here besides the church. It sounds like you're focusing on the CHURCH as being a problem rather than the other glaring issues.

I don't know what to reply to either:
"don't have a whole lot of people to talk to in life": How about your fiance? Oh, you said, "I am so sad and disappointed I can't even discuss it with my fiancé because as he is not catholic he doesn't get it."  Nevermind. Guess that's out. Which brings me to "the love of my life" and "we are much stronger than that" comments.
Your parents? Your priest? Do you even actively go to church or did you just find one to get married in? (rhetorical questions, for you)

I don't know about the law, maybe Left Brain can help out here, but I *think* that hiring someone to kill someone would land someone in jail, or at least on trial for attempted murder, or other things. And she'd lose custody of her child, right? This just doesn't seem to add up, but it doesn't really matter. "throws the 13 year old under the bus" seems like he'd have a case for primary custody, leaving her farther out of the picture. BUT, she's his ex and his childs mother. She's not going anywhere.

To me, "challenges" in a relationship are things like family illness, job changes, moves, death, other major life events. Not your "fiance" putting up with an ex that behaves like this. To me, for a marraige to even have a chance at succeeding, you must be strong together. Not one person feeling like they can't talk to their partner -or coming to an agreement- about something that is supposedly very important, the actual vows or ceremony. Back to the original issue, I think the church's requirements are the least of your problems, and while you don't have to agree with everything the church does, that's the rules. Take it or leave it.

Good luck in your choice to live your life with this kind of drama.

nitpick:  Catholics do not have divorces.   We have annulments.   It sounds petty, but the difference is huge.  HUGE.   

Divorce:  The marriage no longer exists.

Annulment: The marriage NEVER existed.

That's why they need to talk to everyone involved.  They don't want to know if she's crazy NOW. They want to know if she was crazy when she agreed to get married.   That would have meant that she was unable to reasonably agree to a covenant, which is at the heart of a Church marriage. 

The Church tries to protect the sacrament of marriage as much as it can.   They try and try to get people to understand that it really is FOREVER.   So, if they determine that both parties were "sane" when the marriage took place, and then one person becomes mentally ill, then there will be no annulment.   You agreed to love that person for better or for worse, until death, so the Church will not annul that marriage.   Also, in the Catholic annulment process, both sides do NOT have to agree.  The Marriage Tribunal will decide, and the decision is final.  The process is not perfect, and I'm sure there are many cases where marriages get annulled under much flimsier circumstances.   I'm not here to defend it, I'm just here to explain it. 

Socks, there is a pretty big disconnect between:

"The sacrament of marriage, of what it represents in the church was what I wanted, not just some clerk saying OK you are legally bound because that is not what marriage is to me. "  

...and everything else you've said.    The Sacrament of Marriage is a permanent manifestation of God's perfect love between two individuals.   While I know it is frustrating... if you *really* want that from the Church, then they ask you to do your part in protecting that Sacrament as part of the Church.  Not just *your* marriage, *everyone's* marriage.  

Again, think critically about why you're angry at the Church.  By protecting the Sacrament, and not just giving it away to anyone who asks, She is retaining the very value you are seeking.   

This isn't easy.  I'm truly sorry you're struggling.  I sincerely hope you can find some comfort somewhere.  

Peace.  

-Ryan

My Dad was married and divorced 4 times and he used to go on and on about them "damn women" and how messed up they are because they kept leaving him.
I can't remember how old I was, but there was a time when I told my Dad that I don't think "the damn women" are the problem here.  ;-)

The same thing happened to my stepbrother and some friends of mine. The issue with their getting annulled was also the MONEY attached. They thought it was ridiculous to pay $1,000's of dollars for it to be done, so they skipped it. Didn't have a Catholic wedding. 

Now, I'm not Catholic, but can't you still go to church and worship God even if they don't "bless" your marriage? I mean, is there a "most wanted" wall at the Catholic churches when you walk in? They can't take your religion and your relationship with God just because they don't "bless" your marriage. AND would they even marry you in a Catholic church if he isn't Catholic? 

Your marriage will be real, even if the Catholic church doesn't do the ceremony. 

I had this question as well. I had always understood Catholic weddings to be strict about both parties being Catholic.

No, but you must do Pre-Cana and also agree to raise the kids catholic. (Mom's Catholic, Dad was Lutheran at the time - converted when I was little)