New Bike - Is Carbon a must?
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2008-08-19 9:56 AM |
Expert 655 Muncie, IN | Subject: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? I'm finally taking the plunge and getting a true Tri Geometry bike. My question is about Carbon frames. Are they a must? I'm looking for perfomance gains based mostly on getting a proper fit. I have comfort issues with my road bike now and hoping that a new tri bike will at the very least reduce fatigue on the bike and then run. I'm kicking around Cervelo P2C(strong 2nd choice), Quintana Roo Seduza(my favorite), Blue T16(outside chance), and maybe a few others that are around the $2500 range. Take the Seduza...I can get the kilo which is bascially the same geometry in Aluminum and maybe get some better wheels...is the trade off worth it or should I be looking at Carbon which really limits my choices due to cost? |
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2008-08-19 10:02 AM in reply to: #1613263 |
Champion 5117 Brandon, MS | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? Not a must. A good aluminum frame is still a good frame. There will be a bunch of differing opinions on which is better and why, but the answer to your question is no, carbon is not a must. Proper fit and well operating components are a must. |
2008-08-19 10:04 AM in reply to: #1613263 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? Not a must but more of a personal preference. If you're "looking for perfomance gains based mostly on getting a proper fit" then frame material is nearly irrelevant. Just want to note that Cervelo makes the P2SL which is essentially the P2C in aluminum. Ride 'em both, ride 'em all and decide for yourself. Edited by the bear 2008-08-19 10:05 AM |
2008-08-19 10:08 AM in reply to: #1613263 |
Extreme Veteran 451 Lake Effect Snow Country | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? I looked at the Kilo and Seduza (and some others) too. I walked in convinced that it didn't matter and I would much rather save the money for something else. The shop built several bikes for me based on my previous fittings with them, and I test road all of them on a typical Detroit road, ie, expansion joints and lots of potholes. That was all it took. One mile on the Seduza and I was convinced I wanted carbon. Honestly, I didn't think I'd notice a difference in the feel of hte bike. I was totally wrong. And it wasn't a pushy sales guy, he just sent me out to ride the bikes we'd decided fit me best. |
2008-08-19 10:09 AM in reply to: #1613263 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? Carbon allows the frame makers more freedom in their design. But that does NOT mean that one can't make a good frame with aluminum. IMO, there is no significant reason to choose a bike on the basis of frame material. |
2008-08-19 10:19 AM in reply to: #1613263 |
Expert 630 Frisco TX (DFW area) | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? I'm am not a fan of Carbon bikes - they can flex and I am 220 lbs and do not like the feel of the flexing - also - like many materials Carbon does have a life - it is shorter than Alum and other metals, so I look at the bike as a long term relations.
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2008-08-19 10:38 AM in reply to: #1613263 |
Member 219 Nampa, Idaho | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? Carbon won't help your speed. It will help comfort though. So it depends on what you're comfortable with. I compromised with carbon fork and seat post. And on chip seal the carbon is a lifesaver. |
2008-08-19 10:55 AM in reply to: #1613263 |
2008-08-19 10:59 AM in reply to: #1613263 |
Elite 4235 Spring, TX | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? Lets see: I own a carbon frame My wife has beat me at every race we've done together... Point being, at the end of the day it's about the rider. |
2008-08-19 11:02 AM in reply to: #1613263 |
Extreme Veteran 326 Zephyrhills, FL | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? like gleser said, im also a big guy, and im just not sure if carbon alone would do the trick for me...ive got a mix carbon/aluminum frame which allows me to get the stiffness in areas that i need it, but also the carbon ride that is much more enjoyable....if you're a bigger rider, you may want to take that into consideration as well |
2008-08-19 11:47 AM in reply to: #1613399 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? chosenprovidence - 2008-08-19 11:38 AM Carbon won't help your speed. Yes it will. Design parameters allow much broader range of frame and tubing shapes. That is why the fastest mass market frames (in terms of wind tunnels and race results) are all carbon. It will help comfort though. Not always. A good builder can build any material in a way to accent one or another feature in a frame. I've ridden carbon that will rattle your teeth out on the bumpy stuff. |
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2008-08-19 12:00 PM in reply to: #1613630 |
Folsom, CA (Sacramento Area) | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? Daremo - 2008-08-19 9:47 AM chosenprovidence - 2008-08-19 11:38 AM Carbon won't help your speed. Yes it will. Design parameters allow much broader range of frame and tubing shapes. That is why the fastest mass market frames (in terms of wind tunnels and race results) are all carbon. It will help comfort though. Not always. A good builder can build any material in a way to accent one or another feature in a frame. I've ridden carbon that will rattle your teeth out on the bumpy stuff. I agree with the last sentence. The nature of carbon is far more stiff than alluminum therefore confort on either bike will depend on the design and the rider. Last weekend I went on a rough pavement 60 miles ride and my riding partner riding the only carbon Madonne bike was the only one that complainted about the rough ride. Me and another rider were on aluminum frames with carbon forks and seat stays and thought it was rough but not too bad. Go for a test ride on both bikes and decide according to your likes and dislikes and budget. good luck |
2008-08-19 12:09 PM in reply to: #1613263 |
Expert 2189 Dodge County, MN (out in the corn) | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? My husband just bought a bike and debated this point at length. He ended up with the Roo Tequilo. It has carbon fork and seatpost on the alum frame. Kind of the best of both worlds. Don't know about the roads where you are, but they are pretty rough around here. A carbon fork and seatpost has been a welcome addition. Happy shopping! |
2008-08-19 12:12 PM in reply to: #1613263 |
Master 1404 Atlanta, Ga | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? Is Carbon a must? Absolutely not. I switched this year from Aluminum to Carbon, and while it's a close battle, I actually think I liked the ride my aluminum bike gave me compared to the carbon. Both are Felts. Something about my current bike is a little too.... soft. I never knew it, but I preferred the stiffer ride my old bike gave me. |
2008-08-19 12:12 PM in reply to: #1613263 |
Expert 655 Muncie, IN | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? Thanks for the input! I dont' really have expecations of increasing my mph. I do however want a more efficient aero positon fit. Which I can only think that this will help with comfort which end the end might make me a tad faster but possible enable my legs to be a little more fresh of the bike. Does this make sense??? My current bike is a Trek 1200 road bike that I've put base bars and aero bars on. It's not bad but I just don't feel real comfortable in the aero position. I've got the seat as forward as it goes and I'm still stretched out a bit. |
2008-08-19 1:03 PM in reply to: #1613263 |
Expert 939 Tulsa | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? I'm surprise no one has talked about the benefit of carbon with respect to absorbing more shock from the road. Less shock into your legs. Come on people!! |
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2008-08-19 1:20 PM in reply to: #1613871 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? ballyard7 - 2008-08-19 2:03 PM I'm surprise no one has talked about the benefit of carbon with respect to absorbing more shock from the road. Less shock into your legs. Come on people!! Because it's generally a myth. |
2008-08-19 1:43 PM in reply to: #1613937 |
Expert 939 Tulsa | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? JohnnyKay - 2008-08-19 1:20 PM ballyard7 - 2008-08-19 2:03 PM I'm surprise no one has talked about the benefit of carbon with respect to absorbing more shock from the road. Less shock into your legs. Come on people!! Because it's generally a myth. And how did you come upon believing that this was a myth? Are you just believing what others say? I'm an enginner and i deal with materials on a daily basis. Not to say that i know everything, but from my experience i and background i believe that this "myth" has merrit. Anyway i don't want to hyjack this thread so i'm leaving it at that. Carbon may be faster due to the aerodynamics, but everyone is right when they say it come down to the persons fitness. |
2008-08-19 1:47 PM in reply to: #1613997 |
Master 2701 Salisbury, North Carolina | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? NO.... can't believe no has mentioned the Cervelo Soloist Team alum. |
2008-08-19 2:06 PM in reply to: #1613997 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? ballyard7 - 2008-08-19 2:43 PM And how did you come upon believing that this was a myth? Are you just believing what others say? I'm an enginner and i deal with materials on a daily basis. Not to say that i know everything, but from my experience i and background i believe that this "myth" has merrit. Anyway i don't want to hyjack this thread so i'm leaving it at that. Carbon may be faster due to the aerodynamics, but everyone is right when they say it come down to the persons fitness. From engineers who build bikes. The material itself may have certain properties in isolation, but it's how the bike is constructed that makes the most difference. And on that score, as I think Daremo and some others noted above, a carbon bike can be made to be more "stiff" or "harsh" than alumium or vice versa. Things like fit, saddles, tires and air pressure are all likely to have a bigger impact on road vibrations than carbon vs. alumium (or other material). Perhaps an "everything else equal" bike would ride better in carbon vs. aluminum but I think you'd be hard pressed to identify that bike. |
2008-08-19 3:08 PM in reply to: #1614065 |
Expert 939 Tulsa | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? JohnnyKay - 2008-08-19 2:06 PM ballyard7 - 2008-08-19 2:43 PM And how did you come upon believing that this was a myth? Are you just believing what others say? I'm an enginner and i deal with materials on a daily basis. Not to say that i know everything, but from my experience i and background i believe that this "myth" has merrit. Anyway i don't want to hyjack this thread so i'm leaving it at that. Carbon may be faster due to the aerodynamics, but everyone is right when they say it come down to the persons fitness. From engineers who build bikes. The material itself may have certain properties in isolation, but it's how the bike is constructed that makes the most difference. And on that score, as I think Daremo and some others noted above, a carbon bike can be made to be more "stiff" or "harsh" than alumium or vice versa. Things like fit, saddles, tires and air pressure are all likely to have a bigger impact on road vibrations than carbon vs. alumium (or other material). Perhaps an "everything else equal" bike would ride better in carbon vs. aluminum but I think you'd be hard pressed to identify that bike. So it sounds like he is agreeing with me. "everything equal" which it would be...A carbon bikes would ride better. Of course if the carbon bike doesn't fit you as well as the aluminum then thats obvious which one is better "for you". |
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2008-08-19 3:15 PM in reply to: #1613263 |
Expert 939 Tulsa | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? oh one other thing i heard recently is that more bike manufacturers are starting to make more of their bikes from carbon. Including some under the $1000 range. The price of aluminum has been rising where carbon has not. You might be seeing a lot more carbon bikes on the shelves soon. Just word on the street from some local bike shops. |
2008-08-19 3:57 PM in reply to: #1614266 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? ballyard7 - 2008-08-19 4:08 PMSo it sounds like he is agreeing with me. "everything equal" which it would be...A carbon bikes would ride better. Of course if the carbon bike doesn't fit you as well as the aluminum then thats obvious which one is better "for you". "Everything" is more than fit. Equal frame stiffness, tube design, etc. I don't think it's safe (at all) to assume that if the fit is the same that the carbon bike absorb more road vibration. |
2008-08-19 4:34 PM in reply to: #1613263 |
Expert 834 Medina, MN | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? I'd suspect that a carbon frame bike will hold its value better if you are planning on "upgrading" in a couple years. I have no proof to back that statement up of course..... |
2008-08-19 4:41 PM in reply to: #1613343 |
Master 1410 White Plains NY | Subject: RE: New Bike - Is Carbon a must? gleser - 2008-08-19 11:19 AM like many materials Carbon does have a life - it is shorter than Alum and other metals What is the lifespan of a carbon frame vs an aluminum frame? |
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