General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Why is the swim leg so short? Rss Feed  
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2007-07-05 12:16 AM

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Master
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Subject: Why is the swim leg so short?
Really, to put the swim on par with the bike and run, the swim portion of a triathlon ought to be doubled.  I'm just curious, how did these standard triathlon distances develop, and why did the swim get short-changed?


2007-07-05 12:28 AM
in reply to: #872281

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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?

A few answers ... hope to see more ...

Folks who started tri (in San Diego, Johnstone and Shanahan) had put on a biathlon (now known as aquathlon) before, and funnily enough, Johnstone had to be convinced by Shanahan to throw a bike leg in (he was dubious).

It was a 6mi run, 5mi bike, 500yd swim, so much more proportionate.

However, what really popularized tri and brought it to the world stage--the Ironman--was conceived by John and Judy Collins, who thought to combine Hawaii's 3 toughest races, Waikiki Roughwater, Around-Oahu Bike, and Honolulu Marathon.  Those original distances still stand today as the Ironman legs, and generally other triathlons of lesser distances followed the general ratio.

There has been some effort--not very successful, obviously--to put on triathlons that equalize the parts. 

2007-07-05 6:46 AM
in reply to: #872284

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?
TriAya - 2007-07-05 12:28 AM

A few answers ... hope to see more ...

Folks who started tri (in San Diego, Johnstone and Shanahan) had put on a biathlon (now known as aquathlon) before, and funnily enough, Johnstone had to be convinced by Shanahan to throw a bike leg in (he was dubious).

It was a 6mi run, 5mi bike, 500yd swim, so much more proportionate.

However, what really popularized tri and brought it to the world stage--the Ironman--was conceived by John and Judy Collins, who thought to combine Hawaii's 3 toughest races, Waikiki Roughwater, Around-Oahu Bike, and Honolulu Marathon.  Those original distances still stand today as the Ironman legs, and generally other triathlons of lesser distances followed the general ratio.

There has been some effort--not very successful, obviously--to put on triathlons that equalize the parts. 

Yeah, what she said.  Seriously, I had heard the Ironman story before but did not know the specifics.  I have heard in the past they have had tris were each discipline was closer but don't know specifics.  Besides, I suck at swimming so the shorter the better.
2007-07-05 6:52 AM
in reply to: #872281

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Elite
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Spring, TX
Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?
You won't hear any complaints from me about the distance...

as a matter of fact, can we make it shorter? You know, dip your toe in the water and then go do the bike and run...
2007-07-05 7:31 AM
in reply to: #872348

Master
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Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?
OrbeaMan - 2007-07-05 6:52 AM

You won't hear any complaints from me about the distance...

as a matter of fact, can we make it shorter? You know, dip your toe in the water and then go do the bike and run...


Isn't the 500yd sprint distance just a dip anyways?

~fatBoy
http://trifatboy.com
2007-07-05 7:34 AM
in reply to: #872281

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Elite
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Spring, TX
Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?
It is, but for a very poor swimmer like me, that 500 meters seems very very long.

But hey, if it was easy I guess we wouldn't have any fun.


2007-07-05 7:39 AM
in reply to: #872281

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Veteran
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Grand Rapids MI
Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?
I've never seen a swim leg that was too short !!
2007-07-05 8:05 AM
in reply to: #872281

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Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?

Because being fast in the water doesn't mean squat in the big picture .......

Look at all the results, how often is the first person out of the water the first one accross the finish line?  Close to never.  Even if you lengthened the swim that would probably still be the case.  It takes a different kind of endurance and strength to be a fast swimmer than it does a fast cyclist/runner - which use similar physiological systems.

Of course you can easily "lose" a race or ruin your day with a bad swim, but even a 2.4 mile ironman swim will only take the average swimmer 1:15 or so.  The bike will take 6-ish and the run 4-ish.  If the swim was made to take 4 hours, then no one but the fishes would want to participate, and most people would be too exhausted to continue.  remember, it is a lot harder to handle nutrition when you're swimming ...... ;-P

2007-07-05 8:05 AM
in reply to: #872281

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?
Maybe because the swim is the most likely event where someone could die?
2007-07-05 8:26 AM
in reply to: #872281

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Regular
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Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?
Wow, I was just about to start a thread about this exact topic. I'd love to see a race where the distances are:

1 mile swim
10 mile bike
4 mile run

or increase it in those increments. I chose those distances because because they each take me about the same amount of time to finish. It would no longer be about "just survive the swim and hammer on the bike."

I understand where the IM distances come from but the Oly to Half IM distance jump makes no sense to me:

Swim: 1 mile to 1.2 miles
Bike: 25 miles to 56 miles
Run: 6 miles to 13 miles

Something's wrong there.
2007-07-05 8:42 AM
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2007-07-05 8:47 AM
in reply to: #872497

Regular
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Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?
Yeah but why only look at the IM distance? Look at the sprint distance and someone who can survive the swim but is a great cyclist will beat the great swimmer, average cyclist (assuming all things equal on the run) every time. Why not have some sprint races where the cycling is equivalent time-wise to the swim? Like I mentioned, go to a 1 mile-10 mile-4 mile.

That will give the great swimmers a 10-15 minute head start on the great cyclists. Or force the cyclists to spend more time in the water and less on the bike.

I know, many people prefer the longer distances over sprints, but the sprints are my world right now and are for a great many people.

Thanks.
2007-07-05 9:04 AM
in reply to: #872284

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Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?
TriAya - 2007-07-04 10:28 PM p>

There has been some effort--not very successful, obviously--to put on triathlons that equalize the parts. 

The distances for the Redondo Beach Triathlon were set by the original RD in an attempt to make each part of the race take an approximately equal time to complete. This resulted in a longer than usual swim of 1/2 mile than the typical sprint. It also made the bike about 1/2 the typical sprint distance at 6 miles, and the run about 2/3, at 2 miles. This may have been a noble attempt, but after 3 years, very few people produce equal times in each segment. Oddly though, in this year's race my swim and run times were exactly the same, to the second. However my bike time was about 2 1/2 minutes slower (with the official results listing an even slower time as the transitions were included in the bike time).

The extremely short bike part has produced enough negative comment that the current RD is seriously considering adding another lap to bring it up to 9 miles. So much for noble efforts.

If you are interested I have race reports on all 3 year's events.

2007-07-05 9:25 AM
in reply to: #872534

Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?

For me a 1/2 mile, 6 mile, 2 mile would be a 15 - 17 minute swim, 12 - 15 minute bike and 11 - 13 minute run.  Not really "equal."

The premise assumes one is equal in all disciplines, which is never the case.  The whole appeal to a lot of triathletes is that while they may have a deficiency in one sport, they are really good in one or two others.

2007-07-05 9:51 AM
in reply to: #872281

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Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?
i don't think i'd want to do a race with a really short bike leg. I'm not the strongest or fastest cyclist out there, but why even bother to get on a bike for a 10 mile ride?
2007-07-05 10:03 AM
in reply to: #872497

Master
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Sunny Southern Cal
Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?
PennState - 2007-07-05 6:42 AM

1. You can't eat while swimming, so anything much longer than an hour and you will run into problems with possible bonkage.

2. You can't hydrate (at least by your own choice... I have seen some people swallow a lot of water unintentionally at races ) on the swim either.

3. Most triathletes (not all) are probably more into the bike run aspect of the sport. I personally really like swimming, but not nearly as much as the other 2.

4. Drowning would increase... hard to know?

5. Swim is a limiter for a lot of triathletes and 2.4 mile swims would resul;t in the exclusion of many triathletes enterring a race.

I can understand keeping the sprints the way they are, because they are the entry point for the majority of people coming into the sport.

It would be interesting to see see an Olympic style race where the swim was bumped up by 50-75%.  Or, maybe a second 1-1.5k swim was added between the bike and run !!!  Would it make a difference in the outcome?  Probably would mix things up some, yes.  But the second swim might put some people at greater risk in the water, so I can see where that idea would be nixed. 

Hey, it is what it is.  But the fact that those triathletes who are the strong swimmers don't seem to benefit from their strong event in the overall standings basically means that this sport is more "du-half-alon" than triathlon.  I think the typical ratio of cycling to running probably comes close to balancing the exertion for those two disciplines even though the cycling times are obviously quite a bit higher.



2007-07-05 10:16 AM
in reply to: #872281

Elite
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Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?

if I ever had a vote, I would vote for longer swims.  

2007-07-05 10:16 AM
in reply to: #872281

Elite
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Reno
Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?

if I ever had a vote, I would vote for longer swims.  

2007-07-05 10:22 AM
in reply to: #872348

Champion
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Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?
OrbeaMan - 2007-07-05 6:52 AM

You won't hear any complaints from me about the distance...

as a matter of fact, can we make it shorter? You know, dip your toe in the water and then go do the bike and run...


+1. The swim part is just to get the heart rate up before the fun begins. THough I must say I've been swimming a lot more lately and am really starting to enjoy it. A big 2-mile race coming up next weekend as I prepare to start my IM training.
2007-07-05 10:29 AM
in reply to: #872281

Coach
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Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?
How it developed it's been mentioned already. A reasonable distance IMO is the Oly (1.5K, 40K, 10K) although the swim is still short.

Why they don’t make it longer? cuz 99% of Tri-geeks suck at swimming

2007-07-05 10:31 AM
in reply to: #872281

Champion
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Ottawa, Ontario
Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?

I would vote for a shorter swim.  The 500 meter swim in a sprint is not too bad but the next distance triathlon is the olympic in which the swim is tripled compared to having the bike and run distances only doubled!  What the heck is that all about?  The proper distances should be based on the original Ironman so that:

  • a HIM would be S-1900m / B-90km / R-21.1km,
  • an Olympic would be S-950m / B45km / R10.5km, and
  • a Sprint would be S-425 / B-22.5 / R-5.2


2007-07-05 10:37 AM
in reply to: #872281

Regular
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Rhode Island
Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?
>>However, what really popularized tri and brought it to the world stage--the Ironman--was conceived by John and Judy Collins, who thought to combine Hawaii's 3 toughest races, Waikiki Roughwater, Around-Oahu Bike, and Honolulu Marathon.<<

And the point to the original Ironman with those three distances was to see which specialist had the greatest advantage. I think that's been well proven that a great cyclist is at a decent advantage over a great runner, and a great swimmer isn't even in the same discussion with a great cyclist at the IM distance. The swim really is like having a side-salad before a 7 course meal. It almost just gets in the way.
2007-07-05 10:52 AM
in reply to: #872734

Not a Coach
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Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?
Machiavelo - 2007-07-05 10:31 AM

I would vote for a shorter swim.  The 500 meter swim in a sprint is not too bad but the next distance triathlon is the olympic in which the swim is tripled compared to having the bike and run distances only doubled!  What the heck is that all about?  The proper distances should be based on the original Ironman so that:

  • a HIM would be S-1900m / B-90km / R-21.1km,
  • an Olympic would be S-950m / B45km / R10.5km, and
  • a Sprint would be S-425 / B-22.5 / R-5.2

Just to clarofy something.  The original Hawaii Ironman was NOT the beginning of triathlon.  The history of the IM legs has been well discussed.  But those distances need have no bearing on the rest of the sport.

And I agree with Jorge.  The swim remains shorter in almost all distances because triathletes generally suck at swimming. 

2007-07-05 11:08 AM
in reply to: #872281

Expert
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Columbia, MO
Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?

Here's a thought.

If you want an equivalent race, promote thyself to race director, organize the event and find out if there's even an interest at this point? If you get a ton of takers, maybe it would catch on?

2007-07-05 11:11 AM
in reply to: #872835

Master
1249
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Lexington, Kentucky
Subject: RE: Why is the swim leg so short?
bsjracing - 2007-07-05 11:08 AM

Here's a thought.

If you want an equivalent race, promote thyself to race director, organize the event and find out if there's even an interest at this point? If you get a ton of takers, maybe it would catch on?

Google "Equilateral Triathlon".  Sadly (IMHO) it doesn't seem to be getting much attention.

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