General Discussion Triathlon Talk » HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 2
 
 
2009-06-29 7:52 AM

Member
23

Ambler, PA
Subject: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim

Well, this is my last resort. (Maybe it should have been my first). I was intent on being a triathlete as I love the mix, but after my Sprint Tri this weekend in Philly, I'm questioning myself. This is my second sprint. I am in reasonable shape. I am actually training to do the NJ State Olympic in July so I thought I would be great for this. Well I wasn't. I'll start with last year. Last year I was a new swimmer. I trained in the pool but put the time in and thought I would do fine. I went out and paid $300 for a wetsuit and jumped in the river to do the swim. Within 90 seconds I had a panic attack. I couldn't catch my breath. It didn't matter if I flipped on my back, side, doggy paddle etc, I thought I was going to drown. I finally flagged the kayak over and caught my breath. As the thoughts of all my family watching them pull me out of the water went through my head. I swore it was the wetsuit that was constricting my breathing. Anyway, I muscled my way through the swim. Took me a long time and I stopped at another kayak along the way. I may have been the last one in my age group (even though technically I should have been a Clydesdale). When I got out of the water I swore I would never do that again. I really meant it.

Well, the winter and a few too many holiday parties and I forgot how bad the swim was. So I signed up for two. A sprint and a Oly. Well the Philly sprint was this weekend. I have been training for the Oly and spending a lot of time in the pool. I am more comfortable and can swim longer. I even practiced in the pool with the wetsuit once or twice. Well, the day came. I hopped in the water and did a warm up. My lungs were constricted but they warmed up. I did 50 yards or so and thought I would be fine. Then the start. As we entered the water, the woman at the bottom gets on the speaker and says "I’ve you've never done this before, it’s like swimming uphill". Great. We start, I try to pace myself. I get to about 100 yards and have to grab the kayak. I'm dying, can't catch my breath. I start again and get to the bridge and have to hold onto that, then another 100 yards and have to hold onto another kayak. It doesn't matter what I do, doggy paddle, lie on my back, side stroke, nothing works. I stop at the final kayak about 200 yards from the finish. I'm determined to put my head down and just freestyle my way in. I get about 100 yards and can't breathe, but of course there are no kayak's around now. I started to panic. I could see the shore and all the families. I could see the volunteers and am looking for a life preserver or something. I made my way to within about 20 yards of the shore when one of the volunteers saw me. I was seconds away form yelling "help'. I could actually see him take his shoes off and jump into the water. He waded out about 10 yards and grabbed my hand. He helped me in. I sat on the sand and caught my breath for 3 minutes. I truly thought I was going t drown. I got on the bike and decided this was my last tri. I was not going to risk drowning again. Then I decided that I have trained too long and that I was not going to let this beat me. So here I am, asking for help. I have a feeling that it’s the wetsuit. That it’s too tight and I can't breath. It may be the cold water. It may be the fact that I have the ability to put my feet down in the pool when I get tired. But i honestly feel that based on my training I should be able to regulate my breathing and do this. Does anyone have any ideas why I am having such a hard time? I’ve done half marathons etc and have decent lungs. This last one really scared me. I was always in the pool and the ocean as a kid and never had a feeling this close to drowning before. Please help if you can!



2009-06-29 8:04 AM
in reply to: #2249539

User image

Extreme Veteran
341
10010010025
Newnan, Georgia
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim
I'm no pro at swimming, but I would have to say you need to get some OWS practice in.  Try going out to where your tri is being held or any open water location for that matter and put in some time in the wetsuit.  Try to get as close to the race conditions as possible, and make sure you have someone with you until you are 100% positive you can manage on your own.  I know I always get a little nervous once I hit the water, I think most of us do, but getting OWS practice in can take out some of the suprises that we encounter come race day.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

- Brent
2009-06-29 8:05 AM
in reply to: #2249539

User image

Extreme Veteran
439
10010010010025
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim
Hi, so sorry you are having such a hard time, maybe you should get some coaching, i did, it helped a lot, i was afraid to put my face in the water and after one time at the pool with my swim coach i got tover it...
it may be worth a try, i am sure some one will be able to give you some good advice, good luck. and well done for sticking with it.
lol
2009-06-29 8:11 AM
in reply to: #2249539

User image

Expert
655
5001002525
Muncie, IN
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim
I'm not sure I can offer help rather than the comfort of telling you that you aren't alone. I had a tough time over the weekend at a tri and got half way through the swim and just had no breath at all. I'm having sinus issues which is triggering my Asthma to flare up a bit. I did everything you stated side stroke, hanging on safety boat, side stroking from life guard to life guard. I eventually finished but it was rough.

Do you have any breathing issues otherwise...Sinus, Allergies, Asthma? I was swimming really well about 2 months ago and then Allergies/Sinuses kicked in and got my Asthma a little more active. Hang in there and keep swimming. Maybe you should try a triathlon with a pool swim and see if you have the same issues.

I sure sympathize with you though!!!
2009-06-29 8:12 AM
in reply to: #2249539

User image

Master
2277
2000100100252525
Lake Norman, NC
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim

Plain and simple:  It's all in your head.

You just discovered what many newbie triathletes discover:  A race as your first open water swim never works out very well.  You can do all the pool time you want, but unless you get out and practice in the open water...  FAIL!  Would you do all of your bike training on a trainer or rollers inside and never once ride outside until your race?  No.  Would you do all of your run training on a treadmill and never once run outside until your race?  No.  So why do it with the swim?

Have a friend with a kayak or rowboat go with you and at least once a week get into a lake and do an open water swim for distance.  If you have no friends, tie a surfboard, inflatable raft, something behind you.  I pull a 'Surfster' about 10 feet behind me when I'm alone.  Then whenever local swimming groups or the YMCA announces a group open water swim practice, SIGN UP!  They're only about $5 and you'll swim in a pack.  GREAT practice for your races!

This is the training you HAVE TO DO for an open water triathlon swim!  You can't just be exclussively in the pool and then your first OWS be the race.  It NEVER works out.  Who knows?  You may begin to like it more than the pool.  I do.  No constant changing directions and walls.  It's refreshing and free to simply pick a spot a half-mile away, go straight there and back in an environment without chlorine chemical smells, artificial lighting and loud echos.

If you need some additional mental help to relax in open water, might I shamelessly plug my wife's services?  She's helped many triathletes, especially for this:  http://www.lakesidetherapy.com

Hope this helps!

2009-06-29 8:23 AM
in reply to: #2249539

User image

Master
1517
1000500
Raleigh
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim
i also panicked in the pool this wknd in my tri. i'm not a great swimmer but can manage. I think the whole prerace anxiety and the "competitive" nature put great deals of pressure on me in the swim- and i began to flail and lose breath and my stroke turned into clawing at the water...

It is at these times when you need to have a lil comforting mind trick...try and practice with a song or something in your mind that you can count with in your strokes...so when you panic you can quickly regain your composure with that diddy and become efficient again.

I also agree with creating race conditions. get OWS practice in the wetsuit. but no matter how comfortable you are in the ows swimming, dont ever swim alone. as ANYTHING can happen in the water and you may need that assistance.

keep practicing. dont get to hard on yourself. and get that ows experience in so that its a day at the park for you!

good luck!


2009-06-29 8:25 AM
in reply to: #2249587

User image

Champion
10020
50005000
, Minnesota
Bronze member
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim

Totally agree - which is a good thing, because you can overcome this.  Practicing in open water will give you confidence.  I always advise warming up first, so I am glad you did that.  Then you just have to believe you can do it.  Don't listen to the voices that say things like "it's an uphill swim" or the voices in your head.    You've done the swim workouts, you will practice more, YOU CAN DO THIS.

You are tiring yourself out with the nerves, flailing, etc.  Next time at the start of the race, hang back a second and let the group go.  Don't "race" the swim.  Just take a deep breathe, rememeber you are trained, and start swimming calmly.  With the wetsuit you barely even need to kick and you will NOT drown if you trust the suit.  You can mostly float in it, I suspect, if you trusted it.  Maybe light treading water if you need a break.  In fact, when you practice in it the next time stop and see how easy it is to float. 

I absolutely have been there, so this is not the advice of a good and confident swimmer.  In my first Oly swim I panicked for about 6 minutes right at the beginning.  Then I "muscled" my way through the .9 miles, and left the water totally spent.  This year I did the same race and took 10 minutes off my time.  The main difference was finding a calm place before I dove in and not rushing it. 

Good luck!

Bigfuzzydoug - 2009-06-29 8:12 AM

Plain and simple:  It's all in your head....

2009-06-29 8:27 AM
in reply to: #2249539

User image

Extreme Veteran
597
500252525
Fairfax
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim
I'd recommend talking with a triathlon coach and getting a lot more open water practice, that's really the only thing that will make you more comfortable is getting out there with the wetsuit on and practicing race day conditions.  I remember my first wetsuit swim, I had the same "constricted" feeling, but that's just part of wearing a wetsuit.

What are you thinking about when you get out in the water?  Are you worried about something in the water?  Are thoughts racing through your head about drowning?  It sounds like you've got a decent amount of training, but without updated logs I can't verify that.  Maybe it's a fitness issue?  How long is your longest consecutive swim (without stopping at the wall)?  How often do you swim a week, and what does your normal workout look like?

I don't know where you're located, but just this year around the DC area a bunch of open water swim clinics have been popping.  They're supervised, coached open water swims that mimic race day conditions.  Try looking around in your area if anything like that is offered, also try posting in your local state forum and see if anyone has any recommendations.
2009-06-29 8:35 AM
in reply to: #2249539


4

Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim
Don't have an answer but I can relate.  Did my first sprint a couple weekends ago - bricked the swim.  Never had a panic attack before in my life before that swim.  Mine was an ocean swim - I completed it but barely.  At any rate, I don't think we should give up.  Before my next tri I want to try some of the suggestions people have already posted.  My plan for the next one is to try to get some open water experience.  Also, I want to try to relax myself as much as possible before the race.  Like I plan to just stoll out to the water next time - no running or going fast.  Just get through it without panicing.  I don't care how slow I go as long as I do what I do in training.

Good Luck
2009-06-29 8:49 AM
in reply to: #2249539

User image

Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim
Oh, just in case no one's mentioned it, OWS is a completely different beast and panic attacks are not even uncommon for first time OWSers.

Find yourself a tri group or a swimmer's group that meets weekly/monthly in an open body of water and go swimming a few times.

Yes, this is common. Yes, you can overcome it if you go do it enough.
2009-06-29 8:49 AM
in reply to: #2249587

User image

Veteran
238
10010025
Lewisville, nc
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim
Bigfuzzydoug - 2009-06-29 9:12 AM

Plain and simple:  It's all in your head.



I agree. Sounds like a positive experience or two would be all you need to get you going in the right direction. If the water really is that cold that you NEED a wetsuit at this time of year, I'm assuming you live somewhere that you can't get along without it.. just assuming.

If you CAN get along without it, maybe you and a buddy can get out to some open water with the goal of just swimming 100 yards or so. If it goes good, do it again... and again.

I'm certainly no expert, I just did my 2nd OWS on Saturday, but it does sound like a mental block to me if you're doing fine in the pool. Maybe some baby steps in the open water are just what the doctor ordered?

Trust me.. if you want to, you'll do it!

Other than that, the only other piece of helpful advice I can give is something they taught me in flight school... "be like a jar of maynaise.. keep cool, but don't freeze!" Easier said than done when your BREATHING is at stake, but keeping calm will help a lot. You may not be born with it in this case, but you can learn it.

Good luck.. we're rooting for you!



2009-06-29 9:16 AM
in reply to: #2249539

User image

Master
1779
1000500100100252525
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim

Don't give up yet. I've spent the last year trying to figure out what my OWS problems were.  Over a series of races we went through a checklist of common OWS problems related to breathing and panic attacks. I can swim in a pool, OWS alone in a lake, mass starts with friends and a coach. But for some reason once I got into a race situation I had the same problems as you did.  You can and will work through this just hang in there. I  swam in the Escape from Alcatraz tri a few weeks ago with no panic problems. 

We think we finally nailed down what my OWS problems were. I have to warm-up in the water before the race. My coach said when I start a race without warming up that it puts my body into a fight or flight position. Which pretty much describes the beginning of most triathlons IMO. Your HR is already higher because of the race. Add in the mass start and it is really difficult to not go into a panic/breathing situation.

Before each race I swim or do something to get my HR up really high for a few minutes. That way the race start isn't the first time my HR/Breathing elevate. This has really helped me out a lot. I also have to start out slower than I need to. If you need to float on your back then do so until you can get your breathing under control. Then flip over and swim as long as you can.

To prepare for OWS, I'm not allowed to push off the wall at the pool or even touch it. I turn around at the end of the lane without pushing off. Actually it is pretty funny. You wouldn't believe how many people have stopped me and told me how much easier it would be if I pushed off from the wall! Not pushing off has made me get used to swimming without a break. One of these days I'll learn how to do flip turns.

IMO the shorter beginner sprint type races are harder for those of us with OWS panic/breathing problems. Too many people are crowded into a small space. The longer swims are easier because you can get into your rhythm and find a space to swim.

You can and will work through this.

2009-06-29 9:19 AM
in reply to: #2249539

User image

Extreme Veteran
482
100100100100252525
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim
Oh, I feel your pain!! My first 3 tris were like this, even in a pool! I vowed that my 4th race (this past weekend) would NOT be this way ever again. So here's what I did to help alleviate this panic (thank's fellow BT'ers for the advice, it worked! )
1. get in the water before the race and warm up, not just a couple of strokes- Think about it, when you're in the pool, when do you actually start to get in the groove? For me, it's about 150 yds or so... That's what I did in the lake before the race. I swam for probably 150 yds or so..
2. I practiced some deep breathing immediately before the start of the race. Really deep breathing, watching my HR, keeping it low.
3. When the race started, I didn't just jump in and go, I quickly waded in, put my body in position, and started swimming slowly. very slowly, remaining calm.
4. Whenever I felt that "panic" or "urgent" feeling come about, I would dramatically roll to my side to breathe and I held it there a tad longer, focusing on the sky or a cloud. That really helped bring me and my breathing into focus.
5. I agree that finding a place to do any OWS would be so helpful, but unfortunately where many of us live, that simply isn't an option that can be done on a super regular basis. We have to make do with what we have.
I wish you the best of luck and you CAN and WILL conquer this!

Edited by nuttysami123 2009-06-29 9:20 AM
2009-06-29 9:47 AM
in reply to: #2249539

User image

Veteran
204
100100
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim
If you live near Philly, there are organized open water swims on Thursday evenings at Lake Wenonah in NJ.  They are held by CGI Racing, and there is some info on it here:  http://new.cgievents.com/Newsletters/March2009/tabid/58/Default.aspx

2009-07-13 10:40 AM
in reply to: #2249539

Member
23

Ambler, PA
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim
Thanks everyone for your input. I have some good news to report. I attended an open water swim clinic yesterday at Lake Nockamixon outside of Philly and it was awesome. The good news is that I figured out my problem. It was my wetsuit. I don't know if its too small or having the full sleeves makes it too tight, but I swam almost a mile yesterday. I felt fine the whole time and didnt' panic at all. Its amazing how much better I did without the wetsuit. Turns out that I am actually a reasonable swimmer. Did freestyle and whole time and came in first in the group I was in. Now I just have to figure out what I am going to do about Tri's that are in colder water temps. Thought I would share in case anyone was experiencing the same problems. Thanks.
2009-07-13 3:42 PM
in reply to: #2280970

User image

Extreme Veteran
3177
20001000100252525
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim
johntoth - 2009-07-13 8:40 AM Thanks everyone for your input. I have some good news to report. I attended an open water swim clinic yesterday at Lake Nockamixon outside of Philly and it was awesome. The good news is that I figured out my problem. It was my wetsuit. I don't know if its too small or having the full sleeves makes it too tight, but I swam almost a mile yesterday. I felt fine the whole time and didnt' panic at all. Its amazing how much better I did without the wetsuit. Turns out that I am actually a reasonable swimmer. Did freestyle and whole time and came in first in the group I was in. Now I just have to figure out what I am going to do about Tri's that are in colder water temps. Thought I would share in case anyone was experiencing the same problems. Thanks.


This is actually what I was going to suggest. A lot of people have issues with their wetsuit. Some don't have the right size, others need more arm room etc...a great fitting wetsuit will allow you to swim and feel like it is your second skin, an ill fitting one will do nothing but restrict your breathing/movement cause you to use up more energy without being able to replenish the oxygen as efficiently. Good luck in the future and dont give up on a wetsuit, just find the right one!


2009-07-13 3:53 PM
in reply to: #2249539

User image

Expert
1040
100025
SF Bay Area
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim
Doug said it best "It's all in your head". 100% true. The key is to get it out of your head and get something more beneficial in there like many good quality ow swim experiences.
2009-07-13 5:27 PM
in reply to: #2249539


4

Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim
Hey Jontoth,

It might be your suit, I rented a $300 dollar suit with the neoprene thickness around the same on the whole suit. It was warm but something wasn't right, it was tight everywhere and couldn't breathe. Then ended up buying a $500 suit from the same manufacturer and same size and had all kinds of different soft stretchy materials. It fit like a glove and was thinner at the arms and chest, with the thickest part at the quads for buoyancy. You can barely feel the suit while you swim and can float all day (kinda like swimming with a pull buoy. Try renting a top of the line suit and you will notice a night and day difference with your swimming abilities.
2009-07-13 5:50 PM
in reply to: #2249539

User image

Extreme Veteran
396
100100100252525
Eastern Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim
I'll throw my two cents in. I had the exact same problem wearing a wetsuit in my first two tri's. I went through all the same questions; is the suit the wrong size, am I freaking out because it is a ows..race...etc? It turned out to be the fact that I wasn't pulling it up on my torso enough. Since I have a sleeveless suit it is easy to adjust even when I'm in the water if necessary. The last couple of ows (including the Philly Sprint) have been great. Whatever it is I hope you find the answer.

Art
2009-07-13 8:26 PM
in reply to: #2249539

User image

Pro
4360
200020001001001002525
Baton Rouge area
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim

John,
Keep at it.  I had nearly the same experience.  Last out of the water and was on first name basis with kayakers.  Fast forward to this weekend with no Wetsuit.  Was freaking out because the bouyancy of the wetsuit was my crutch.  No crutch.  Survived and feel better about OWS's but not 100%.  My Tri group has had 2 OWS practices with a qualified swim instructor leading it.  It has made the world of difference and you need to find similar ones to practice.

Keep trying, you will get there.

2009-07-13 9:04 PM
in reply to: #2249539

User image

Expert
961
5001001001001002525
Illinois _ Chicago area
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim

Been there... done that - several times.

I just had a discussion about this very subject with the leader of the tri club to which I belong. He told me that part of it's in your head, but part of it is an actual physiological response to the combination of anxiety, stress and the cold water.  One of the tips he gave me was to pull the neck of the suit out while in the water to let water get into the suit.  This supposedly will help combat that "constricted feeling" the suit gives you.  The other thing I do is to make a conscious effort to actually go slower that normal at the start so I won't get out of breath.   



2009-07-14 12:54 AM
in reply to: #2282818

User image

Member
10

Carson
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim
suzimmer - 2009-07-13 9:04 PM

Been there... done that - several times.

I just had a discussion about this very subject with the leader of the tri club to which I belong. He told me that part of it's in your head, but part of it is an actual physiological response to the combination of anxiety, stress and the cold water.  One of the tips he gave me was to pull the neck of the suit out while in the water to let water get into the suit.  This supposedly will help combat that "constricted feeling" the suit gives you.  The other thing I do is to make a conscious effort to actually go slower that normal at the start so I won't get out of breath.   



Agree. I'm no expert and haven't done a tri yet. But if you look at my first post, i got caught in a rip current. I almost started to panic. but told myself if i panic, i will drown, so i started sculling while signaling the life guard. He helped me out and I had this fear of going back in the ocean. I think it's all mental, you seem to have the abilities. Maybe just take smaller steps. Go out and slowly get that fear out. Don't go out too far or make short runs...etc...

Just don't give up. It's just a hurtle. The past events will only make you stronger and smarter. Learn from your experiences...

Edited by tri1984 2009-07-14 12:55 AM
2009-07-14 7:53 AM
in reply to: #2249539

User image

Master
1699
1000500100252525
Malvern, PA
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim

glad to hear you remedied the situation...

you may also want to let your wave go ahead for about 15-20 seconds to insure that the race gets off on a good foot...

it really allows for you to get into a rythym and set a nice pace to start

good luck!



Edited by maxmattmick 2009-07-14 7:54 AM
2009-07-14 10:44 AM
in reply to: #2249539

User image

Veteran
141
10025
Wolverine, Michigan
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim
I think it is the Wetsuit.  I live on a lake in Northern Michigan and have a exercise pool in my basement.  I grew up doing OWS all the time.  This winter a friend talked me into doing a Tri so I started training in February and have been training like a madman, and could easily swim for 30 min nonstop.  I bought a wetsuit off E-Bay.  I weigh 135 , it is a mens small for 135 to 150 lbs, no problem plenty big.  It felt fine walking around.  I swam for about 50 yards and thought "this is incredibly fast, Yeehaa", by 100 yards I was headed for the shore, gasping for air.  It wasn't nerves or inexperience, I just could not get enough air.  I tried pulling the suit up higher for a better fit. The only thing that works is unzipping the suit halfway.  I can breathe, but then it fills up with water and my calves are like watermellons.  Then I researched and found the problem.  I have wide lats, so my chest is 41",  In the wetsuit mfg's mind I should weigh 175 lbs with that size chest.  Even though I have not done my first tri I have learned a lot.

1) - The size charts are not exact, but only guides
2) - Get lots of practice in varying conditions - If I had waited till the race to learn my problem I would have been screwed.
2009-07-14 3:20 PM
in reply to: #2249539

User image

Veteran
351
1001001002525
Bucks County
Subject: RE: HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim
We could help if you had some sort of log filled out. How many yards do you swim during a typical week? 1000? 8000? 12000? River and ocean swims are often the most difficult because you have to deal with waves, jellyfish and the current.

If you are signed up for NJ State - don't sweat it. Warm water in a "lake" without any current. Just make sure you realize that wetsuits are almost NEVER, EVER, EVER used for the NJ State races (OLY/Sprint). After your experience with the wetsuit I would do NJ State without the wetsuit and see how you feel.
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » HELP!!!!!!!!!!! Swim Rss Feed  
 
 
of 2