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Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinter
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 2009-08-19 7:40 AM |
Member 40 |  Subject: Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinterI watched the Tour de France and repeatedly heard that Mark Cavendish was indeed the fastest sprinter in the world. And this past weekend I started watching the world track and field championships and noticed that Usain Bolt was the fastest sprinter in the world. And obviously they both cant claim this title...so I am wondering at exactly what distance could Bolt actually take Cavendish in a sprint. I feel like Mark would take the 200 no problem, but the 100m? I don't know, Bolt might have him beat out of the block...and it only takes him less than 10 seconds to get to the line. So what do y'all think? Who would win at what distance....and who should truly be coined the worlds fastest sprinter? (And please don't make an argument that it is two completlely different events, I know that...I am just curious and would love to see a showdown take place on primetime for the world to see!!!) |
| 2009-08-19 8:38 AM in reply to: #2357502 |
Master 4119   Toronto Bronze member | Subject: RE: Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinter Well it would definitely be a draw on post-race showmanship and strutting. :D |
 2009-08-19 8:39 AM in reply to: #2357502 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2009-08-19 8:49 AM in reply to: #2357502 |
Champion 11989   Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinter A road bike or a tri bike? |
| 2009-08-19 9:05 AM in reply to: #2357502 |
| Elite 3371 | Subject: RE: Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinter Bolt would win steeple chase, 110 hurdles, 400 hurdles, long jump, and pole vault. |
| 2009-08-19 9:34 AM in reply to: #2357631 |
| Member 40 | Subject: RE: Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinter Road bike for sure...I would even let Hincapie lead him out for the 100 if that would even be possible. And Mark would be on his bike, clipped in at the start with someone balancing his bike til the gun went off. I love the questions guys...the possibilities are endless. |
| 2009-08-19 9:52 AM in reply to: #2357502 |
| Master 2277 Lake Norman, NC | Subject: RE: Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinter So in the 100, Bolt is running at 23.35mph (actually, exactly that) very quickly out of the block. How quickly would the top cycling sprinter take to get beyond that speed from a standing start and make up time for the acceleration time to get there? I'm thinking 6-8 seconds. That would give him a second and a half (Bolt's record is 9.58 in the 100) to tie and pass just before the line. Cavendish could easily still be accelerating up to and possibly past 40mph at the peak of his curve. Close. Very close. But I think Cavendish catches Bolt in the final 20-15 meters and passes Bolt to cross the line a half second faster while he's still accelerating and Bolt's at max speed. |
| 2009-08-19 10:05 AM in reply to: #2357502 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2009-08-19 10:31 AM in reply to: #2357847 |
| Extreme Veteran 591 New Port Richey, FL | Subject: RE: Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinter wgraves7582 - 2009-08-19 11:05 AM He would have to go from 0-? in 100 meters and I don't see that happening. If we assume constant acceleration, Cav would have to do 0-46.75mph in the 100 meters to tie. |
| 2009-08-19 10:52 AM in reply to: #2357502 |
| Champion 7558 Albuquerque, New Mexico | Subject: RE: Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinter Standing start? 400 m for Cavendish to be assured victory. I doubt Cavendish can make up for Bolt's initial acceleration in 100 m. At 200 m (which for a while had a lower WR than 2X the 100 m WR) it'd be dicey. Assuming Bolt accelerates in the first 50 meters and cruises the last 50, he'll need a maximum speed of 15.64 m/s (35 mph) to cross the line in 9.59 seconds. He spends 6.39 seconds accelerating and 3.2 seconds cruising. Assuming Cavendish accelerates the entire 100 meters, he'll need to accelerate at 2.175 m/s^2 and a top speed of 20.86 m/s (47 mph) to cross the line even with Bolt. (I like story problems |
)| 2009-08-19 10:57 AM in reply to: #2357923 |
| Member 40 | Subject: RE: Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinter Wow...I was planning on doing the math at some point today but you beat me to it. So it would be close, because I just read an article saying that the max speed for sprinters can be around 75k/hr...that is 46.6 MPH! Anyone out there with connections in the entertainment world (not adult, rather NBC, CBS, Versus...PBS) Somehow money could be raised, and a network could air this for us to see the 100m. Millions of dollars spent to organize a race between the fastest man on two wheels and the fastest man on two feet, all for under 10 seconds of racing. THAT IS WHAT LIVING THE LIFE OF AN ATHLETE IS ALL ABOUT MY FRIENDS. |
| 2009-08-19 12:06 PM in reply to: #2357502 |
| Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinter Although they talk about Mark Cavendish as a great sprinter, he is a road race "sprinter" which is a very different skill set than a true sprinter. In order to do what he does, he needs to be able to hit a very high top speed after a long ride and a fast lead out. If you want to see true sprinting on the bike, check out some track sprinting where they time only the last 200m. These events are a little strange to watch at first as the first part of the race is all about tactics and trying to set yourself up to cross the line first. If you watch the video you can see them playing cat and mouse and a relatively low speed before building up to the final sprint. The current WR (Theo Bos) for this event is 9.772 (which is an average of 46mph). If we assume that it would take 100m for a cyclist to hit this speed (which is about half a lap on the track and very doubtful that it would take a cyclist that long to accelerate to that speed) then Bolt would win by a couple about .2 seconds. In reality I would expect the cyclist to be up to speed no further than 50m in and this would give the cyclist the edge by just over .2 seconds. |
| 2009-08-19 12:17 PM in reply to: #2358178 |
| Pro 4672 Nutmeg State | Subject: RE: Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinter gsmacleod - 2009-08-19 1:06 PM Although they talk about Mark Cavendish as a great sprinter, he is a road race "sprinter" which is a very different skill set than a true sprinter. In order to do what he does, he needs to be able to hit a very high top speed after a long ride and a fast lead out. If you want to see true sprinting on the bike, check out some track sprinting where they time only the last 200m. These events are a little strange to watch at first as the first part of the race is all about tactics and trying to set yourself up to cross the line first. If you watch the video you can see them playing cat and mouse and a relatively low speed before building up to the final sprint. The current WR (Theo Bos) for this event is 9.772 (which is an average of 46mph). If we assume that it would take 100m for a cyclist to hit this speed (which is about half a lap on the track and very doubtful that it would take a cyclist that long to accelerate to that speed) then Bolt would win by a couple about .2 seconds. In reality I would expect the cyclist to be up to speed no further than 50m in and this would give the cyclist the edge by just over .2 seconds. Can we say World Champion in the Madison, as well as a ridiculously good scratch racer? |
| 2009-08-19 12:19 PM in reply to: #2357502 |
| Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinter Here is an article about Bolt's 9.58 WR run with some actual speeds at various points in the race. http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/08/analysis-of-bolts-958-wr.html and a chart http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ua8ycqfc4ok/Sok0yuw3Z7I/AAAAAAAABrE/_xnlYoB3jp4/s1600-h/Speed+for+intervals.gif Looks like he is already close to top speed by the 40m mark and even tails off slightly at the end. |
| 2009-08-19 12:20 PM in reply to: #2357502 |
| Expert 878 Tallahassee, FL | Subject: RE: Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinter This conversation reminds me of 1996, when there was the great debate of whether Michael Johnson was the World's Fastest Man or Donovan Bailey, so they set up a 150 meter race to decide it all. "He's a coward!" -Bailey on Johnson, after Johnson pulled up with a hamstring injury in the race. |
| 2009-08-19 12:21 PM in reply to: #2358197 |
| Pro 4672 Nutmeg State | Subject: RE: Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinter kaburns1214 - 2009-08-19 1:17 PM gsmacleod - 2009-08-19 1:06 PM Although they talk about Mark Cavendish as a great sprinter, he is a road race "sprinter" which is a very different skill set than a true sprinter. In order to do what he does, he needs to be able to hit a very high top speed after a long ride and a fast lead out. If you want to see true sprinting on the bike, check out some track sprinting where they time only the last 200m. These events are a little strange to watch at first as the first part of the race is all about tactics and trying to set yourself up to cross the line first. If you watch the video you can see them playing cat and mouse and a relatively low speed before building up to the final sprint. The current WR (Theo Bos) for this event is 9.772 (which is an average of 46mph). If we assume that it would take 100m for a cyclist to hit this speed (which is about half a lap on the track and very doubtful that it would take a cyclist that long to accelerate to that speed) then Bolt would win by a couple about .2 seconds. In reality I would expect the cyclist to be up to speed no further than 50m in and this would give the cyclist the edge by just over .2 seconds. Can we say World Champion in the Madison, as well as a ridiculously good scratch racer?  |
| 2009-08-19 12:56 PM in reply to: #2357502 |
| Champion 6931 Bellingham, Washington | Subject: RE: Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinter I would like to see Bolt run a 10K first and than sprint. Cavendish ride a hundred miles and than accelerates to a sprint finish.... |
| 2009-08-19 2:35 PM in reply to: #2357502 |
| Master 2277 Lake Norman, NC | Subject: RE: Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinter I still feel that a bunch of people are totally underestimating how quickly a top professional cyclist can accelerate. It may not be as fast as Bolt can reach top speed, but I think one could very quickly be going 20+ and passing 35+ over 100m. Track star or TdF pro, I believe they could nip Bolt at the line and win. |
| 2009-08-19 2:59 PM in reply to: #2358572 |
| Champion 7558 Albuquerque, New Mexico | Subject: RE: Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinter Bigfuzzydoug - 2009-08-19 2:35 PM I still feel that a bunch of people are totally underestimating how quickly a top professional cyclist can accelerate. It may not be as fast as Bolt can reach top speed, but I think one could very quickly be going 20+ and passing 35+ over 100m. Track star or TdF pro, I believe they could nip Bolt at the line and win. Then why do they start on a ramp for TT's (and I think for track races too)? Assuming the cyclist can hit a cadence of 120, he'd need to push a 53-14 gear to get 35 mph. Do you think he can accelerate from 0 to 35 mph in 10 seconds pushing a 53-14? Lower gear/higher cadence? Lower gear/gear changes? 20 mph to 35 mph I can see as a few seconds, but 0-20 mph leaves the cyclist dead in the water. |
| 2009-08-20 2:48 AM in reply to: #2358214 |
| Master 2665 The Whites, New Hampshire | Subject: RE: Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinter |
| 2009-08-20 6:13 AM in reply to: #2359452 |
| Champion 8936 | Subject: RE: Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinter Slugger - 2009-08-20 2:48 AM kaburns1214 - 2009-08-19 1:21 PM Can you explain to me what is going on in this picture? I believe that's called a Pimp Hand. |
| 2009-08-20 7:27 AM in reply to: #2359502 |
| Pro 4672 Nutmeg State | Subject: RE: Bolt vs. Cavendish...fastest sprinter DerekL - 2009-08-20 7:13 AM Slugger - 2009-08-20 2:48 AM I believe that's called a Pimp Hand.kaburns1214 - 2009-08-19 1:21 PM Can you explain to me what is going on in this picture? This is actually a hand off in the Madison. The Madison is a 50K two person race. The teams of 2 decide how much riding each member will do and must hand off when switching riders. Because there's no baton like in track the riders grab hands. |
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