Running mileage standards - what about slower runners?
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Often we talk about needing to do more mileage to improve your run. People will say things like "you need to be running 20 miles per week (or more, just an example) to even start with speed work." I have also noticed that this sort of advice comes from folks who run much faster than I do. Added to that, there's a theme of time being more important than distance. To not worry about running a certain number of miles in training because the overall time put in training will show on race day. I certainly agree with that, since my race times are consistently faster than my training times. The magic works. So, I am wondering, how many miles/week should a person who runs their "easy long run" at an 11 min/mile pace be working toward? Just so I am clear, I understand that running more will naturally move a person into the category of a faster runner to a degree. Also, I understand I do NOT run a lot and I should (and want to), so no need to analyze my log. I am not looking for an excuse to run less, I am truly curious if my goals should be the same as a person who runs a mile 3 or more mins faster than me. I would be curious to hear from folks who are running 20 or more miles/week who are slow (let's say 58 min 10k or slower). Or, from a coach who someone who trains someone in that pace range. Is it reasonable for me to have the same mileage goals as a runner who is much faster? Just for some math: 20 miles at 8:00/mile pace=160 minutes or 2:40 20 miles at 11:00/mile pace=220 minutes or 3:40 Should I be running an hour more per week than a, by all accounts, better runner? Or should I be downsizing my mileage to fit in the 2.5hours or so per week (using a theoretical 20 mile/week base standard)? I mean this as a theoretical question, mostly. I am curious to hear what you guys think. |
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![]() I run at what's better known as "arthritic water buffalo pace". I've found something like 15ish MPW keeps me at whatever pace I'm at and 20-25 MPW makes me able to be about one minute per mile faster after I've done that for a couple months. My fastest 10K ever was during The Nation's Triathlon last year and it was the first time I've ever broken the 1 hour mark. 58:51. This was during training for B2B full and I was up to about 20+ MPW running by then. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Don't worry about what other runners are doing. Your run volume should be based on what your current fitness and time constraints allow. In general, more will help as long as you build up to it in a smart manner. If you have time to do more running, then get out and run more! Otherwise, do what you can and listen to your body. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I found when I run 25 mpw I saw slow gains and more I saw more gains. Running more often was key for me. I went from running 3x a week for 4 years of tri'ing then upped to 4x a week a year and was surprised what a difference it was for me. Increasing part of last year from 4 to 5 runs per week. Key is consistent run training. Yes I'm a slow runner.....PBs 26:43 for 5K, 2:12 for 1/2 Mary. |
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Runner | ![]() I think you have highlighted the dangers of using multiple metrics to make comparisons between people. I also think that, no matter what advice you read, you have to temper it with your own goals and constraints. That being said, I think that you are trying to use pace to determine your volume, and I don't think that's a good way to go about it. What I mean is that You are trying to determine your volume based on your pace, and the time it would take. I disagree with this method because you end up combining metrics that are tracking the same thing. I would suggest that if time is your limiter for training, then you run to that. Use your pace to determine your efforts (or some other method; personally I dislike pace as a metric of effort because it ignores variables). So you track one metric for volume, and one metric for intensity. That's all you really need. At that point, your volume goals may or may not be the same as someone else's. Of course, I also think that you should not set volume goals based off of someone else, anyway; volume goals should be based off what you can reasonably fit into your schedule, what your goals are for your races, and what you want to do. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() AndrewMT - 2011-07-06 10:18 AM Don't worry about what other runners are doing. Your run volume should be based on what your current fitness and time constraints allow. In general, more will help as long as you build up to it in a smart manner. If you have time to do more running, then get out and run more! Otherwise, do what you can and listen to your body. I like this. I run by time rather than distance. At this point I don't worry too much about my pace but I do try to run a negative split. I've had my share of injuries since I started running so I am starting all over again running more often and building very slowly. I've realized there is no advantage of shaving :30 off my pace if I end up with an inujury and missing races or racing under trained because of an injury. My hope is to continue this slow build healthy and the distance will come. |
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![]() | ![]() As a not as fast runner (my coach HATES it when I call myself slow, she threatens to beat me over the head or sit on me if she catches me) I can relate. It's frustrating to know that when I go out for 11 miles this weekend I will need approximately 2:15-2:30 to do it depending on how I feel but some of my running friends will be done sub 90 minutes. I have to adjust my nutrition/hydration, my timing (I'll start this weekend around 6:00 am then meet up with my group at 8 am to finish out the run with my friends), bathroom needs etc. My training plan is set to mileage with pace or effort level expectations. Feel free to look at my logs as they are accurate and up to date. I am training toward 2 half marathons this summer/fall and will top out at 28 mpw. Because of my ski season my winter volume just wasn't enough so my build is slow. Hopefully next winter I'll do a little better on base mileage to up my volume faster as I'd really like to hit 30 mpw for a period to see what that does to speed. Oh, and yes, I do speed work. I know some here would say I shouldn't but I trust my coach. She is very good and works with a wide range of runners from newbies to NY qualifiers. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() BikerGrrrl - 2011-07-06 8:09 AM Should I be running an hour more per week than a, by all accounts, better runner? Or should I be downsizing my mileage to fit in the 2.5hours or so per week (using a theoretical 20 mile/week base standard)? I mean this as a theoretical question, mostly. I am curious to hear what you guys think. BarryP (Poster on another forum) came up with something he calls the Run Program. It's basically a 1:2:3 progression for a weeks worth of running. It works out to 3 recovery runs, 2 workout runs and one long run. The long run is 3 times a short run, and a workout run is 2 times a short run. So, if your short run is 10 minutes, then your workout runs would be 20 minutes, long run is 30. You space it out so that they aren't stacked, so a week might look like 3, 2, 3, 1, rest, 2, 3. You increase by about 10% a week, and to start, you merely translate your current weekly mileage into the slots. So if you are doing 15mpw on 3 runs, you still do 15mpw you just chop it up differently. It's a lot more involved as far as build phases, etc., but that is the general drift of it. If anyone is interested, PM me for a link to the writeup, not sure I can post an external site link for it or not. John |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() yeah, tough to get relatively faster when you consider yourself slow. I know. Trust me I know. Of some interest to you might be Daniels Running Formula which has an interesting chart regarding intensity. Basically he assigns points for certain workouts so for example: slow long run gets you 1 point per minute marathon pace gets you 2 points per minute tempo gets you 3 points for minute vo2max gets you 5 points per minute. I think he has other catagories too (I can't find a link to the chart or my book right now so this is just for illustration) The idea being that you should only hit, say, 100 points per week, 120 for peak, 80 for recovery etc. Anyways, I found it insightful when thinking about comparing myself to faster runners and the effort they put into their training compared to mine. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Ramping up for a marathon last year, I was running 6 days a week based on time broken into 3 short, 2 medium (2xshort), and 1 long (3xshort). I think that there's a name for this type of plan, but I don't know what it is. The long run was always slow and steady. The medium and short runs were broken into recovery, tempo, hills, intervals, fartlek, etc. based on how I felt. Starting out it was short = 20 min, medium = 40 min, and long = 60 min. This happens to be roughly where I'm at again now that I have to add in bike and swim. At peak, it was short = 40 min, medium = 80 min and long = 120 min. I also had 18, 20, and 22 mile days leading up to the marathon. However, I am really slow with bad knees, so this required dropping a couple medium runs for extra recovery days.
ETA just saw tkd.teacher's post. I knew that I'd heard someone mention a run program. For reference, my goal was to complete a marathon and run injury free. Spreading the time/distance over a greater run frequency was much better than running longer one day and skipping the next day. Edited by Aspiring 2011-07-06 10:57 AM |
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![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() People will say things like "you need to be running 20 miles per week (or more, just an example) to even start with speed work." Those people are wrong. It depends entirely on what kind of a runner you are and what kind of races you want to run. So, I am wondering, how many miles/week should a person who runs their "easy long run" at an 11 min/mile pace be working toward? There is no generic answer. How long have you been running? How many miles do you run per week right now? What distance races are you looking to run? Just so I am clear, I understand that running more will naturally move a person into the category of a faster runner to a degree. Not necessarily. It will, however, move that person into the category of a runner who runs more miles, if you're interested in tautologies. Quality of miles is important too, not just quantity. Is it reasonable for me to have the same mileage goals as a runner who is much faster? No. A top distance runner will run 80+ miles per week, most of them fast. A good local short-course triathlete might do 25 miles per week. Mileage goals will vary widely among top athletes based on specialties and race schedules, so there's no reason that your goals wouldn't vary widely from those as well. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() A lot of good advice above and I don't want to detract from it but it seems to me.... It is likely that those "better" runners are often running the same, if not more, time than us slow runners. They are just farther along. Yes, some people started running young and never stopped. And some have a natural speed. But many of us start well over the 10 minute mark. It isn't till we build up the volume, and gain the base that we gain enough endurance, speed, and find time in our schedules, to run 30mpw or more. I've been running 11: somethings in my Tris. I train at 11-13 when I run with my wife, or when I do my long runs. I was suprised by a 9:30 ish pace in my 5k this weekend. I assume as I get more comfortable running longer distances I'll be able to train at a faster pace, and race at a faster pace. So for now, I am increasing volume and fitness, and letting the pacing come. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I think slower runners should focus on time rather than distance based on your goal. Is your goal a specific race or simply an arbitrary number of miles per week? If you have the time available in your schedule to reach your goal, then you have determined your own, personal running milage standard. Eventually, you will find your distance increasing for the same amount of time on your feet. I rarely do speedwork. I don't like it, unless I'm racing, so I don't do it. My personal goal is to enjoy each and every run. If I end up doing good in a race, I consider it icing on the cake. |
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![]() | ![]() owl_girl - 2011-07-06 10:25 AM I think slower runners should focus on time rather than distance based on your goal. Is your goal a specific race or simply an arbitrary number of miles per week? If you have the time available in your schedule to reach your goal, then you have determined your own, personal running milage standard. Eventually, you will find your distance increasing for the same amount of time on your feet. I rarely do speedwork. I don't like it, unless I'm racing, so I don't do it. My personal goal is to enjoy each and every run. If I end up doing good in a race, I consider it icing on the cake. I really think that the time vs. distance debate is a personal one based on that person's psychology. For me, I want to know mileage. I want to know that I can run the distance of the race before the race. I'm willing to plan to get my distance in no matter how long it takes me if that's what I need to do according to my plan. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() COSkiGirl - 2011-07-06 9:37 AM owl_girl - 2011-07-06 10:25 AM I think slower runners should focus on time rather than distance based on your goal. Is your goal a specific race or simply an arbitrary number of miles per week? If you have the time available in your schedule to reach your goal, then you have determined your own, personal running milage standard. Eventually, you will find your distance increasing for the same amount of time on your feet. I rarely do speedwork. I don't like it, unless I'm racing, so I don't do it. My personal goal is to enjoy each and every run. If I end up doing good in a race, I consider it icing on the cake. I really think that the time vs. distance debate is a personal one based on that person's psychology. For me, I want to know mileage. I want to know that I can run the distance of the race before the race. I'm willing to plan to get my distance in no matter how long it takes me if that's what I need to do according to my plan. I agree that the debate is personal and based on that person's psychology. IMHO, slower runners should not get so hung up on distance and, instead, enjoy the time that they are out being healthy, training, etc. If it's not fun to go at your own personal pace for X amount of time, why do it? |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ive always been an advocate of mileage over time, its how i always gain endurance. regardless of pace your running mileage should be consistent especially depending on the race distance. if your going for sprint and just really want to finish average around 5 miles per run. olympic, 70.3 and 140.6 you obviously will need more. its best to have shorter and longer runs to get endurance and for you to rest. also tempo runs and interval workout are great for adding more speed too! thats just my 2 cents |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I really appreciate the different views on my question. I started formulating my question based on years of seeing people here on BT throwing out number of miles per week that one "should" be running. While I am glad to see many of you say that doesn't really matter, it seems it does matter to a lot of other folks. Folks definitely have specific ideas about volume and it's usually measured in miles. I am impressed and humbled to see the mileage reported by many of you in my pace range. One thing I know for sure is that I have a lot of room to grow and I am the only one stopping me. I am contemplating a run focus after this season is over, so this is very useful food for thought. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'm slow. I run by miles not time. I usually have a distance goal I have to reach, and I train to that. I *have* to be able to know I can do the distance (or overdistance for shorter). I'm slow, and it takes me longer in training, but I do it. Works for me. May not work for you, but only you can determine what works best for you. |
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![]() | ![]() BikerGrrrl - 2011-07-06 12:10 PM I really appreciate the different views on my question. I started formulating my question based on years of seeing people here on BT throwing out number of miles per week that one "should" be running. While I am glad to see many of you say that doesn't really matter, it seems it does matter to a lot of other folks. Folks definitely have specific ideas about volume and it's usually measured in miles. I am impressed and humbled to see the mileage reported by many of you in my pace range. One thing I know for sure is that I have a lot of room to grow and I am the only one stopping me. I am contemplating a run focus after this season is over, so this is very useful food for thought. Careful, that's what I did 2 years ago. And I fell in love with running and haven't gone back to cycling or swimming except for as light cross training and fun. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() COSkiGirl - 2011-07-06 12:34 PM BikerGrrrl - 2011-07-06 12:10 PM I really appreciate the different views on my question. I started formulating my question based on years of seeing people here on BT throwing out number of miles per week that one "should" be running. While I am glad to see many of you say that doesn't really matter, it seems it does matter to a lot of other folks. Folks definitely have specific ideas about volume and it's usually measured in miles. I am impressed and humbled to see the mileage reported by many of you in my pace range. One thing I know for sure is that I have a lot of room to grow and I am the only one stopping me. I am contemplating a run focus after this season is over, so this is very useful food for thought. Careful, that's what I did 2 years ago. And I fell in love with running and haven't gone back to cycling or swimming except for as light cross training and fun. yes this is a problem I have encountered as well. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() That's funny ![]() |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I noticed better runners run more. So I ran more. As I ran more I became a better runner. There are many people who run the volume I do who are much better. That's never been an issue for me. I wanted results. More running provided me with better results. A reasonably competent freshman high school cross country runner will run about 20 mpw. By the time they get to be seniors, if they want to be competitive they will be running closer to 50 mpw. That's for races of only 5K distance. Some people here don't reach 50 mpw training for a marathon. It takes lots of effort and commitment to build to running higher volumes consistently enough for results. Sometimes it takes several years and many people give up long before then. Many people here will never come close to reaching their potential as runners because they will never put in the consistent long term effort required. Many will look at short term plans that focus on high intensity and suffer injuries, and repeat the process multiple times. Run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard. Lots is likely lots more than most people are willing to do because it just isn't sexy. For the past several years I've run lots keeping in mind the payoff might not come for several years. Now the payoff is coming and I'm starting to place in the top 3 in AG in the majority of the races I do. Run more. When you get to the point where running more no longer brings improvements, do something else. Many people here will never reach that point. I don't think I have and I run lots more than many people. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() kirih - 2011-07-06 1:34 PM I'm slow. I run by miles not time. I usually have a distance goal I have to reach, and I train to that. I *have* to be able to know I can do the distance (or overdistance for shorter). I'm slow, and it takes me longer in training, but I do it. Works for me. May not work for you, but only you can determine what works best for you. I do this, too. It's also really important for me to know that I can do the distance, no matter what time it takes. It's not like when you get to the race, everyone runs for 20 minutes, no matter the pace. We all have to do a 5k for most sprints, or 10k for Olys. I'm a little jealous of people who run faster, but I'll get there. They've put in their time to get there, and I'll do the same. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I like running for time because it allows for variety. Unless I run the same route every time, a mile isn't really a mile, etc. By only doing minutes moving I don't get worked up over running a steep rocky trail, even if it means walking some. 12 min miles can take as much work as 9. So if I only have x minutes to get out there and have to finish y miles I would probably pick the same close-to-home route, get faster for a time, get bored, and go back into hibernation. If mixing it up keeps me out there for more time, i'll assume that speed increases will follow. |
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