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2013-01-07 8:53 AM

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Elite
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Subject: hey Physics Pholks

A parent asked me for help with her high schooler (I've been teaching 5th grade science for 7 years now so I'm rusty on the high school stuff) and my head is spinning a bit.  I've been looking for some models to follow, but since her notes and books are inadequate, I wanted to pick your brains for some help.  So here goes:

A student applies a force of 5.0 N to a wooden block as it slides across a horizontal floor at a constant speed of 2.0 m/s.  When the student replaces the force 5.0 N with a force of 12.0 N, the block accelerates from 2.0 m/s to 3.5 m/s in 3.0 sec.

Describe how to find the mass of the block, using the statement of the law that applies, all the steps with the equation to find the mass, find the mass, and a diagram showing all the forces on the block.

 

If you could at least give me  starting formula, I can probably work my way from there.  I'm just confused with all the different ones, and like a typical student, am asking on an online forum so that I don't appear stupid in front of the parent Innocent



2013-01-07 9:01 AM
in reply to: #4565670

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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: hey Physics Pholks

The starting formula is:

F = ma

F = force (Newtons)

m = what you're trying to find

a = acceleration (m/s^2 ... here you'll need to put the delta, or difference, in speeds over the time, makes the units work out)

 

P.S. That's Newton's 2nd Law, by the way.



Edited by TriAya 2013-01-07 9:03 AM
2013-01-07 9:05 AM
in reply to: #4565670

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Champion
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Subject: RE: hey Physics Pholks

Balance of forces in the initial state. The force applied on the block to move it will be equal to the sliding friction force (which is proportional to the weight of the block) opposing that.

5N applied = mass * friction coefficient

Increase the force, you have 1.5m/s/3s or .5m/s^2

12N applied - sliding friction force = mass * .5m/s^2

two equations to solve for mass and sliding coefficient.

2013-01-07 9:05 AM
in reply to: #4565670

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: hey Physics Pholks
2013-01-07 9:07 AM
in reply to: #4565670

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Subject: RE: hey Physics Pholks
Where's the treadmill?

2013-01-07 9:11 AM
in reply to: #4565670

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Elite
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Subject: RE: hey Physics Pholks
I got that its Newton's 2nd, and I got the f= ma. We do that in 5th. the initial and final velocity and the speed with acceleration thrown in there made me panic as to which formula to go with. I didn't think I could sub in the sub for acceleration, since they are really two different variables. Checking out that website now, thanks!


2013-01-07 9:29 AM
in reply to: #4565670

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Master
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Subject: RE: hey Physics Pholks

Look up the four kinematic equations for motion.

The average acceleration is  (3.5-2.0)/3      (v1-v0)/time  a = .5 m/s^2

F= ma

5= m(.5)

m = 10 kg



Edited by MadMathemagician 2013-01-07 9:35 AM
2013-01-07 9:41 AM
in reply to: #4565670

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Pro
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Subject: RE: hey Physics Pholks
Oh man, this is what I did with my kid for 2 hours the weekend before xmas break. That and the "A ball is thrown upwards off the top of a cliff with an initial velocity of..." problems.
2013-01-07 10:18 AM
in reply to: #4565670

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Master
1970
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Somewhere on the Tennessee River
Subject: RE: hey Physics Pholks

Been rethinking this.   The average acceration comes from the 12 newton force so that should be used instead of the 5 newton force.

12 = m*(.5)

mass = 24 kg.

2013-01-07 10:28 AM
in reply to: #4565927

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Master
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Subject: RE: hey Physics Pholks
MadMathemagician - 2013-01-07 11:18 AM

Been rethinking this.   The average acceration comes from the 12 newton force so that should be used instead of the 5 newton force.

12 = m*(.5)

mass = 24 kg.

That's what I got as well.

2013-01-07 10:51 AM
in reply to: #4565951

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Champion
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Subject: RE: hey Physics Pholks
jcnipper - 2013-01-07 11:28 AM
MadMathemagician - 2013-01-07 11:18 AM

Been rethinking this.   The average acceration comes from the 12 newton force so that should be used instead of the 5 newton force.

12 = m*(.5)

mass = 24 kg.

That's what I got as well.

24kg is correct

12N = mass * ((3.5m/s - 2.0m/s)/3 sec)

Solve for mass



2013-01-07 10:56 AM
in reply to: #4565812

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Sensei
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Subject: RE: hey Physics Pholks

BrianRunsPhilly - 2013-01-07 7:41 AM Oh man, this is what I did with my kid for 2 hours the weekend before xmas break. That and the "A ball is thrown upwards off the top of a cliff with an initial velocity of..." problems.

I can't wait.  I adored physics in HS.

2013-01-07 11:08 AM
in reply to: #4565670

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Subject: RE: hey Physics Pholks

Here's how I would tackle this problem...

 

Assumptions:

1) The force is applied horizontally

2) The block is on a flat surface with no incline

 

Scenario 1:

5N - Ff = 0 ...there is no acceleration, so the applied force equals the opposing force of friction

Ff = force of friction = coeff of friction * Normal Force ...assuming the block is on a flat surface with no incline, Normal Formal = Weight (which is m *g), so ... Ff = coeff of friction * m * g

 

Scenarion 2:

12 - Ff = ma

 

Now just solve the equations:

a = (3.5 - 2)/3 = 0.5 m/s^2

12-Ff = ma ... 12-5 = m * 0.5 ... m = 14g

 

You can then solve for the coeff of friction:

5 = coeff of friction * m * g ... coeff of friction = 5 / (14*9.81) = 0.0364

 

2013-01-07 11:35 AM
in reply to: #4565670

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Expert
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Subject: RE: hey Physics Pholks
I'm getting 14g.

f=ma works when no other forces are acting on the system.
In this case, there is frictional force that has to be considered...

Since 5.0 N causes no acceleration, then friction is "pushing back" at 5.0 N.

So, the force that is causing the acceleration is equal to the total force (12.0 N) minus the frictional force (5.0N) that is opposing it.

Acceleration (meters/second/second) calculates as:
(3.5 m/sec - 2.0 m/sec) / 3.0 sec. = 0.5 m/sec/sec

Now apply f=ma
7 = m * .5
m = 14

Edited by RockTractor 2013-01-07 11:45 AM
2013-01-07 11:36 AM
in reply to: #4566076

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Expert
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Albuquerque, NM
Subject: RE: hey Physics Pholks
Boilermaker - 2013-01-07 10:08 AM

Here's how I would tackle this problem...

 

Assumptions:

1) The force is applied horizontally

2) The block is on a flat surface with no incline

 

Scenario 1:

5N - Ff = 0 ...there is no acceleration, so the applied force equals the opposing force of friction

Ff = force of friction = coeff of friction * Normal Force ...assuming the block is on a flat surface with no incline, Normal Formal = Weight (which is m *g), so ... Ff = coeff of friction * m * g

 

Scenarion 2:

12 - Ff = ma

 

Now just solve the equations:

a = (3.5 - 2)/3 = 0.5 m/s^2

12-Ff = ma ... 12-5 = m * 0.5 ... m = 14g

 

You can then solve for the coeff of friction:

5 = coeff of friction * m * g ... coeff of friction = 5 / (14*9.81) = 0.0364

 




All right... a fellow Boilermaker!
2013-01-07 11:44 AM
in reply to: #4565670

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Elite
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Subject: RE: hey Physics Pholks
Wow thanks nerds!!


2013-01-07 11:50 AM
in reply to: #4566167

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Expert
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Subject: RE: hey Physics Pholks
turtlegirl - 2013-01-07 10:44 AM

Wow thanks nerds!!


I prefer "geek" - there is a difference.
2013-01-07 12:16 PM
in reply to: #4565670

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Champion
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Subject: RE: hey Physics Pholks
Excellent point about the friction.  I missed that in the first sentence of the problem.
2013-01-07 12:45 PM
in reply to: #4566148

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Expert
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Subject: RE: hey Physics Pholks
RockTractor - 2013-01-07 10:35 AM
I'm getting 14g.


Correction: Kg not g

(Newtons) = (kg) * (m/s/s)

2013-01-07 2:07 PM
in reply to: #4566040

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Pro
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Subject: RE: hey Physics Pholks
Kido - 2013-01-07 11:56 AM

BrianRunsPhilly - 2013-01-07 7:41 AM Oh man, this is what I did with my kid for 2 hours the weekend before xmas break. That and the "A ball is thrown upwards off the top of a cliff with an initial velocity of..." problems.

I can't wait.  I adored physics in HS.

Yeah, you spend two hours doing AP Physics or Chemistry and then they forget to turn it in and get a zero. And then you have to explain to them that the reason they have a C average even though they have 100's on their 3 quizzes is that (100+100+100+0)/4 = 75. For example

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