TOTW The best single predictor of triathlon performance is?
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General Discussion | Triathlon Talk » TOTW The best single predictor of triathlon performance is? | Rss Feed ![]() |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I will be taking guesses on this one. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() An aerohelmet, definitely. Ok, I don't know. I'll throw out $.02 and say training consistency is a good predictor, even more than volume. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'd say race rehearsals. Too many think that things will magically happen on race day. Race rehearsals, which include nutrition and race effort will tell you with certain accuracy what you are capable of on race day. Race day is not guessing, it's executing. Note: That does NOT mean to do the race distance. But a combination of race efforts that will highlight what you can and can't do. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() BINGO! Winner winner chicken dinner. Although Alltom1 has a very important pro-tip there too. I am getting a little worked up with the less is more thing again. Tell me why we should advocate and use that Coach Dan. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() phatknot - 2013-03-26 10:37 AM BINGO! Winner winner chicken dinner. Although Alltom1 has a very important pro-tip there too. I am getting a little worked up with the less is more thing again. Tell me why we should advocate and use that Coach Dan. Disclaimer: There are many ways to skin a cat! This is only one way. I feel that a majority of athletes are best served with this method, but not all. I train some of my athletes with a high volume low intensity program as well, but they are rare. First things first: Less is more does NOT mean that you do not have to do long rides or runs. I think that is the biggest misconception or gross generalization. For those that don't know, I just did IM Cabo and ramped up in 10 weeks. That means I had to be efficient about my training. Not to mention it was cold as crap out! The body sees training stress and adapts to it. So the question is how to maximize that and your time. The simplest example would be the stress adaptation of a 100 mile ride. You have 2 options: 1) You can ride 100 miles at .7-.75 CP (Z1/2) and spend 5 hrs on the bike. I'm assuming 20 mph as an average for math ease 2) You can ride 60 miles as 30 at .70-.75 CP (Z1/2) and 3 x 10 miles as 7 @ .9(Z3/4) with 3 @ .7 (Z2) and get similar adaptations and perhaps some back end fatigue resistance to boot. This has taken you a bit less than 3 hrs and you are +2 for the week. If I told someone to just go run easy for every workout or to just swim laps easy they would think I was crazy. But for some reason, people feel it's the way to go for biking. Be efficient. Note, this type of training takes WAY more thought and planning than the high volume/low intensity route, so make sure you know what you are doing. Not so much for injury as studies actually show more injuries in the volume crowd. Instead, its about recovery management. The biggest problem triathletes have, IMHO, is not recovering properly from workouts. Hard on the Hard days, EASY on the Easy days. I had the biggest breakthrough IM race last weekend and my training consisted of a consistent diet of 60-70 mile rides (topped out at 111) and I actually was scheduled for a 120 but did not complete it. My runs were mainly around 16-18 but I did 2- 20 mile runs and a 22 mile run. All of my long runs were at IM Race effort (AKA Easy). But it was 2 weeks long easy and 1 week Tempo and shorter. Example: 18 @ easy, 19 @ easy, 15 @ tempo. (those were Wednesdays) My weekly average was 13-15 hrs and my peak weeks were 18 & 20. Mainly: 3 swims/week (~3500 yds each) 3-4 bikes (2 weekly 1 hr sessions, 1-2 weekend longer sessions of 50-70 miles) 4-5 runs (1 longer, 1 tempo, 3-4 short easy as in 30' short) That was my typical diet. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Thank you for a v. well balanced opinion kind sir. Congrats on your race! Saw some beautiful pics on FB. Psychologist in me wants to ask why you were so clandestine (for you) in prep/announcing for this race but won't put you on the spot because the headcase in me knows why. So you kept long runs and swam a variety presumably of speed/tempo/longer swims and cut bikes down with the addition of intensity therein? |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Marvarnett - 2013-03-26 11:21 AM phatknot - 2013-03-26 10:37 AM BINGO! Winner winner chicken dinner. Although Alltom1 has a very important pro-tip there too. I am getting a little worked up with the less is more thing again. Tell me why we should advocate and use that Coach Dan. Disclaimer: There are many ways to skin a cat! This is only one way. I feel that a majority of athletes are best served with this method, but not all. I train some of my athletes with a high volume low intensity program as well, but they are rare. First things first: Less is more does NOT mean that you do not have to do long rides or runs. I think that is the biggest misconception or gross generalization. For those that don't know, I just did IM Cabo and ramped up in 10 weeks. That means I had to be efficient about my training. Not to mention it was cold as crap out! The body sees training stress and adapts to it. So the question is how to maximize that and your time. The simplest example would be the stress adaptation of a 100 mile ride. You have 2 options: 1) You can ride 100 miles at .7-.75 CP (Z1/2) and spend 5 hrs on the bike. I'm assuming 20 mph as an average for math ease 2) You can ride 60 miles as 30 at .70-.75 CP (Z1/2) and 3 x 10 miles as 7 @ .9(Z3/4) with 3 @ .7 (Z2) and get similar adaptations and perhaps some back end fatigue resistance to boot. This has taken you a bit less than 3 hrs and you are +2 for the week. If I told someone to just go run easy for every workout or to just swim laps easy they would think I was crazy. But for some reason, people feel it's the way to go for biking. Be efficient. Note, this type of training takes WAY more thought and planning than the high volume/low intensity route, so make sure you know what you are doing. Not so much for injury as studies actually show more injuries in the volume crowd. Instead, its about recovery management. The biggest problem triathletes have, IMHO, is not recovering properly from workouts. Hard on the Hard days, EASY on the Easy days. I had the biggest breakthrough IM race last weekend and my training consisted of a consistent diet of 60-70 mile rides (topped out at 111) and I actually was scheduled for a 120 but did not complete it. My runs were mainly around 16-18 but I did 2- 20 mile runs and a 22 mile run. All of my long runs were at IM Race effort (AKA Easy). But it was 2 weeks long easy and 1 week Tempo and shorter. Example: 18 @ easy, 19 @ easy, 15 @ tempo. (those were Wednesdays) My weekly average was 13-15 hrs and my peak weeks were 18 & 20. Mainly: 3 swims/week (~3500 yds each) 3-4 bikes (2 weekly 1 hr sessions, 1-2 weekend longer sessions of 50-70 miles) 4-5 runs (1 longer, 1 tempo, 3-4 short easy as in 30' short) That was my typical diet. Congrats on your race, Dan! I would argue that the part I bolded and italicized above is true IF you already have the base fitness to ride 100 miles. In other words, someone new to longer distance racing might be better served by doing the longer Z1/2 ride at a lower intensity. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() The best predictor of performance is performance. I am not sure who to attribute that quote to since I have heard it a million times but it does ring true, the best way to figure out how you are going to do in a race is to race. I agree though with what Dan wrote earlier in that your race rehersals need to be as close to race conditions as you can make them. By the time you toe the line at a race you should have a race plan in place and it is a matter of executing the plan rather than figuring it out as you go. The only caveat to that is that you have to be willing and able to adapt the plan to plan for unforseen events. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I vote the aero helmet...because when you look marvelous, your perform marvelous. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() phatknot - 2013-03-26 11:34 AM Thank you for a v. well balanced opinion kind sir. Congrats on your race! Saw some beautiful pics on FB. Psychologist in me wants to ask why you were so clandestine (for you) in prep/announcing for this race but won't put you on the spot because the headcase in me knows why. So you kept long runs and swam a variety presumably of speed/tempo/longer swims and cut bikes down with the addition of intensity therein? My weakness was the run, hence we focused on getting me efficient at 8 min miles. My focus for this race was to have a good run after a consistent bike. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Rocket Man - 2013-03-26 5:53 PM The only caveat to that is that you have to be willing and able to adapt the plan to plan for unforseen events. Just wanted to add a bit to the above. Have a plan for common potential events. Examples are: Flat tire. Have you actually practiced what you're going to do? |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Marvarnett - 2013-03-26 11:21 AM .... 60-70 mile rides (topped out at 111) and I actually was scheduled for a 120 but did not complete it. My runs were mainly around 16-18 but I did 2- 20 mile runs and a 22 mile run. All of my long runs were at IM Race effort (AKA Easy). But it was 2 weeks long easy and 1 week Tempo and shorter. Example: 18 @ easy, 19 @ easy, 15 @ tempo. (those were Wednesdays) My weekly average was 13-15 hrs and my peak weeks were 18 & 20. Mainly: 3 swims/week (~3500 yds each) 3-4 bikes (2 weekly 1 hr sessions, 1-2 weekend longer sessions of 50-70 miles) 4-5 runs (1 longer, 1 tempo, 3-4 short easy as in 30' short) I think this is pretty high volume. If I (11-13 hour guy depending on the course) swam, biked, and ran the same distances it would equate to 15-16 hours average and peak weeks 20-22 hours. I'm not saying your approach is wrong though. I think the training plan you outlined is excellent.
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Mrs. brown_dog_us - 2013-03-26 12:27PM Marvarnett - 2013-03-26 11:21 AM phatknot - 2013-03-26 10:37 AM BINGO! Winner winner chicken dinner. Although Alltom1 has a very important pro-tip there too. I am getting a little worked up with the less is more thing again. Tell me why we should advocate and use that Coach Dan. The body sees training stress and adapts to it. So the question is how to maximize that and your time. The simplest example would be the stress adaptation of a 100 mile ride. You have 2 options: 1) You can ride 100 miles at .7-.75 CP (Z1/2) and spend 5 hrs on the bike. I'm assuming 20 mph as an average for math ease 2) You can ride 60 miles as 30 at .70-.75 CP (Z1/2) and 3 x 10 miles as 7 @ .9(Z3/4) with 3 @ .7 (Z2) and get similar adaptations and perhaps some back end fatigue resistance to boot. This has taken you a bit less than 3 hrs and you are +2 for the week. Congrats on your race, Dan! I would argue that the part I bolded and italicized above is true IF you already have the base fitness to ride 100 miles. In other words, someone new to longer distance racing might be better served by doing the longer Z1/2 ride at a lower intensity. I would actually disagree with you on that one. In general (that's my qualifier) if you have the ability to ride 100 miles at Z1/2, then you have the ability to do the 60 mile workout bolded above. The body sees it as the exact same workout stress-wise. And during a build, it's easier to have someone that doesn't have the mental confidence to ride 100 miles to do a 60 mile effort with proper intensity. IMHO, it makes no sense to send someone on a 100 mile ride (at any effort) if they could not do a shorter ride at intensity. To add to my comment to Harvey: Outside of that one long run during the week my runs were what most would call Z1/2. I go based off paces. But I would always do 1 interval run set that would be around 35-45 minutes. Never more than that. And the Main Set would never be more than 15-16 min of work. Below would be a typical hard run for me. This was one of my longer ones: WU: Dynamic stretching + 14' E pace MS: 8 x 2' @ T pace (1' @ E pace as recovery) CD: 5' @ E pace + static stretching Reference: E pace was 8:30-9 min miles and T pace was 6:15-6:30 pace And let's be honest for a minute...no ONE looks better than thecaptin in an aerohelmet. We can only hope to achieve that level of sexiness in our lifetime. Harvey: I hope I didn't take over your thread and take it off it's intended rails. If so, I apologize |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() thecaptin - 2013-03-26 9:32 PM I vote the aero helmet...because when you look marvelous, your perform marvelous. It's not just the aero helmet. Honestly, that is a rookie mistake. Aero helmet + Calf compression sleeves = winner |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() brown_dog_us - 2013-03-27 5:02 PM thecaptin - 2013-03-26 9:32 PM I vote the aero helmet...because when you look marvelous, your perform marvelous. It's not just the aero helmet. Honestly, that is a rookie mistake. Aero helmet + Calf compression sleeves = winner don't hate, Doug. Agree with Alltom1...I like to think consistency is a big indicator of performance... I also think experience comes into play...you may not be the fastest, but if you have been around the block and know a trick or two, or have your nutrition nailed, or can save time here an there (think transitions), that could make or break your performance for a particular race... |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() brown_dog_us - 2013-03-27 5:02 PM thecaptin - 2013-03-26 9:32 PM I vote the aero helmet...because when you look marvelous, your perform marvelous. It's not just the aero helmet. Honestly, that is a rookie mistake. Aero helmet + Calf compression sleeves = winner totally depends on the color of the compression socks...meh on the blacks one...they add nothing to performance. if they are loud and match the uniform...now you on to something. God forbid they match the helmet...20-30 more watts on the bike. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() thecaptin - 2013-03-27 7:54 PM totally depends on the color of the compression socks...meh on the blacks one...they add nothing to performance. if they are loud and match the uniform...now you on to something. God forbid they match the helmet...20-30 more watts on the bike. I've got it! Look like a pro and you will race like a pro! |
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New user ![]() ![]() | ![]() Brand of your gear? |
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Member ![]() ![]() | ![]() Maybe it depends on who you are. For someone like me, just starting out, it would seem that training consistency is the most important. Particularly when just finishing strong is the goal. If your several seasons into it and have specific goals for specific races, you've likely mastered consistent training and your "performance" is more related to some of the other nuances mentioned: nutrition, experience, or the thread favorite, aerohelmet. Robert
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Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() While I realize that I'm terribly out of shape and slow, I have learned a great deal through reading these boards over the last few years. I think the #1 thing I have discovered to seemingly have a HUGE influence on performance is -- seat height! |
General Discussion | Triathlon Talk » TOTW The best single predictor of triathlon performance is? | Rss Feed ![]() |