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Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED (Page 104)
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 2018-10-29 7:24 PM in reply to: amd723 |
Master  8248      Eugene, Oregon Bronze member |  Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSEDNot sure about others but for me, a moderately tough trail 10-miler usually is a similar amount of time to a HM on the road. So really it's the same amount of running. Since you're no doubt paying to do the event, as well as training for it. I'd do the one you enjoy the most! |
| 2018-10-29 7:36 PM in reply to: amd723 |
| 310 Raleigh, North Carolina | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED Originally posted by amd723 Originally posted by Atlantia Remember my grand plan to do my first half marathon at Rock n Roll in March? Very much backing out of that. I have spent the last two weeks doing a long run at such an excruciatingly slow pace. Like, I can walk faster than this pace. But I'm committed to stick to it, and see how the Zone 2 training actually pans out. But! That means I've also spent the last two weekends fretting hardcore over the cutoff times for RnR. It made for really unpleasant runs, and yesterday I thought to myself, "do I really want to spent the rest of the fall and winter feeling like this every weekend?" The answer, of course, is no. But the Team Z 5k doesn't really hold an appeal, so what to do? So glad you asked: https://www.ex2adventures.com/trail-running/spring-backyard-burn-tra... Spring trail running series!! 5 or 10 mile options for each event, and 5 events between March and May. THIS I am genuinely excited about. I don't know exactly which one(s) I would do until they put up the 2019 schedule. But they're all local trails so I can train on them if I want. Weeeeeeeee! So pumped! Those races look really fun! But, do you really have to drop the HM? I understand the concern about cut off times, but as your run fitness improves zone 2 should become faster. In fact, if zone 2 is so, so slow feeling for you now are you sure the pace is accurate? That said, I LOVE trail races, so if I had to chose between a 10 mile trail run and a road HM, I’d pick the trail! I was wondering too if your Zone 2 was accurate. I know for me the 220 - age formula is WAY off as a way to figure max heart rate and zone 2 would be what the formula would say is zone 3. |
| 2018-10-29 8:20 PM in reply to: awm007 |
Master 9705 Raleigh, NC area | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED Originally posted by awm007 Originally posted by amd723 I was wondering too if your Zone 2 was accurate. I know for me the 220 - age formula is WAY off as a way to figure max heart rate and zone 2 would be what the formula would say is zone 3. Originally posted by Atlantia Remember my grand plan to do my first half marathon at Rock n Roll in March? Very much backing out of that. I have spent the last two weeks doing a long run at such an excruciatingly slow pace. Like, I can walk faster than this pace. But I'm committed to stick to it, and see how the Zone 2 training actually pans out. But! That means I've also spent the last two weekends fretting hardcore over the cutoff times for RnR. It made for really unpleasant runs, and yesterday I thought to myself, "do I really want to spent the rest of the fall and winter feeling like this every weekend?" The answer, of course, is no. But the Team Z 5k doesn't really hold an appeal, so what to do? So glad you asked: https://www.ex2adventures.com/trail-running/spring-backyard-burn-tra... Spring trail running series!! 5 or 10 mile options for each event, and 5 events between March and May. THIS I am genuinely excited about. I don't know exactly which one(s) I would do until they put up the 2019 schedule. But they're all local trails so I can train on them if I want. Weeeeeeeee! So pumped! Those races look really fun! But, do you really have to drop the HM? I understand the concern about cut off times, but as your run fitness improves zone 2 should become faster. In fact, if zone 2 is so, so slow feeling for you now are you sure the pace is accurate? That said, I LOVE trail races, so if I had to chose between a 10 mile trail run and a road HM, I’d pick the trail! Good point, Adam! Definitely something to consider. |
| 2018-10-29 8:23 PM in reply to: 0 |
Master 8248 Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED Sometimes it's better just to run by feel..... If you can hold a conversation comfortably while running and can complete the distance without seriously slowing down, then it's probably fine regardless of what heart rate formulas are telling you--everyone is a bit different and lots of random variables like heat, hydration, terrain, other life stress can affect HR a lot on any given run. In my mind, mid-Z2 should feel like a "workout", but not a hard one. As in you'd feel pleasantly tired, but far from exhausted when you finish a long run in that zone. It shouldn't feel "excruciatingly slow". That actually sounds like the low to mid end of Z1. Or if you don't have the fitness to run continuously for that far yet and aren't enjoying running more slowly than you can walk, why not just alternate running and walking until the fitness is there to run continuously at a a slightly faster and more enjoyable pace? You're still out there, going the distance, regardless. Edited by Hot Runner 2018-10-29 8:23 PM |
| 2018-10-30 6:29 AM in reply to: Hot Runner |
Master 9705 Raleigh, NC area | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED Originally posted by Hot Runner Sometimes it's better just to run by feel..... If you can hold a conversation comfortably while running and can complete the distance without seriously slowing down, then it's probably fine regardless of what heart rate formulas are telling you--everyone is a bit different and lots of random variables like heat, hydration, terrain, other life stress can affect HR a lot on any given run. In my mind, mid-Z2 should feel like a "workout", but not a hard one. As in you'd feel pleasantly tired, but far from exhausted when you finish a long run in that zone. It shouldn't feel "excruciatingly slow". That actually sounds like the low to mid end of Z1. Or if you don't have the fitness to run continuously for that far yet and aren't enjoying running more slowly than you can walk, why not just alternate running and walking until the fitness is there to run continuously at a a slightly faster and more enjoyable pace? You're still out there, going the distance, regardless. This is especially true if you did your field test when it was hot and humid and you are doing your training in completely different conditions. I had this problem with one of my field tests last spring. It was still spring when I did the test and then I was left with trying to hit those numbers during summer running. |
| 2018-10-30 9:11 AM in reply to: 0 |
Master 8248 Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED Yep, I did my last threshold test in a 5K race in Saigon when it was 97 degrees and humid. The numbers are basically only good for training and racing in SE Asia! I usually don't use HR zones when running--it's not always a very useful metric as conditions vary so much. I use the pace function for a few things (like tempo runs and segments within long runs where I'm supposed to run at/above/below IM or HIM pace) and effort for the rest. I mainly used HR when I trained in Vietnam to keep things from getting out of hand with the heat--it's a good indicator if you're getting overheated or dehydrated and need to back off or take a break. Plus the weather is similar there year-round, all my run routes were nearly flat, so there was little variation from terrain or weather and HR was a somewhat more reliable metric than it is here. Edited by Hot Runner 2018-10-30 9:13 AM |
| 2018-10-30 9:13 AM in reply to: jmkizer |
Master 7712 Orlando | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED Originally posted by jmkizer Originally posted by Hot Runner Sometimes it's better just to run by feel..... If you can hold a conversation comfortably while running and can complete the distance without seriously slowing down, then it's probably fine regardless of what heart rate formulas are telling you--everyone is a bit different and lots of random variables like heat, hydration, terrain, other life stress can affect HR a lot on any given run. In my mind, mid-Z2 should feel like a "workout", but not a hard one. As in you'd feel pleasantly tired, but far from exhausted when you finish a long run in that zone. It shouldn't feel "excruciatingly slow". That actually sounds like the low to mid end of Z1. Or if you don't have the fitness to run continuously for that far yet and aren't enjoying running more slowly than you can walk, why not just alternate running and walking until the fitness is there to run continuously at a a slightly faster and more enjoyable pace? You're still out there, going the distance, regardless. This is especially true if you did your field test when it was hot and humid and you are doing your training in completely different conditions. I had this problem with one of my field tests last spring. It was still spring when I did the test and then I was left with trying to hit those numbers during summer running. Funny, when I read zone 2 I thought pace zone 2 not HR zone 2! I guess that’s what happens when you don’t train by heart rate! |
| 2018-10-30 9:26 AM in reply to: Hot Runner |
| 1731 Denver, Colorado | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED Originally posted by Hot Runner Not sure about others but for me, a moderately tough trail 10-miler usually is a similar amount of time to a HM on the road. So really it's the same amount of running. Since you're no doubt paying to do the event, as well as training for it. I'd do the one you enjoy the most! This is a very good point. My HM on the road was 2 hours, and on the trail it was 4, so double the time. It is so interesting how different conditions impact the time and pace  |
| 2018-10-30 9:55 AM in reply to: marysia83 |
Master 6834 Englewood, Florida | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED Originally posted by marysia83 Originally posted by Hot Runner Not sure about others but for me, a moderately tough trail 10-miler usually is a similar amount of time to a HM on the road. So really it's the same amount of running. Since you're no doubt paying to do the event, as well as training for it. I'd do the one you enjoy the most! This is a very good point. My HM on the road was 2 hours, and on the trail it was 4, so double the time. It is so interesting how different conditions impact the time and pace Another piece to the puzzle is the terrain difficulty of the trails. Trail races here are often not much tougher than roads, although Ragnar Alafia that Ann-Marie did may be an outlier to that. We don't do a ton of vert, so there's that. I guess you may need to analyze a bit before deciding. That said, the trail run always wins for me. |
| 2018-10-30 10:05 AM in reply to: cdban66 |
Master 8248 Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED I'm comparing two recent races with similar altitudes (average about 7000 feet) and vertical climbing, one on the road (Crater Lake HM), another on trails (Boise Front Trail run). Both were (I think) 1:52 for me. The latter had moderately rough footing--mix of dirt/gravel roads and trails; some mushy, muddy parts mid-race. The difference in times is probably a lot less than with a flat road race at sea level. |
| 2018-10-30 10:38 AM in reply to: cdban66 |
Master 2429 Falls Church, Virginia | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED Originally posted by cdban66 Originally posted by marysia83 Originally posted by Hot Runner Not sure about others but for me, a moderately tough trail 10-miler usually is a similar amount of time to a HM on the road. So really it's the same amount of running. Since you're no doubt paying to do the event, as well as training for it. I'd do the one you enjoy the most! This is a very good point. My HM on the road was 2 hours, and on the trail it was 4, so double the time. It is so interesting how different conditions impact the time and pace Another piece to the puzzle is the terrain difficulty of the trails. Trail races here are often not much tougher than roads, although Ragnar Alafia that Ann-Marie did may be an outlier to that. We don't do a ton of vert, so there's that. I guess you may need to analyze a bit before deciding. That said, the trail run always wins for me. I think I'll likely do the 5 mile. I know I can comfortably cover that distance on the road now, so I can work up to covering it on trails. The trails around me I am typically a good 3-4 min/mile slower than on the road. Regarding pace....sadly I'm just not very fit. I can point to health issues from the past year, weight gain, whatever, but the bottom line is that walking up slight inclines can give me the spins. Nothing to do but improve! I had my VO2 max tested for cycling a few weeks ago, resulting in a zone 2 pace of a blistering 10.8 mph on perfectly flat ground. My run paces are based off RPE for now, VO2 max test will be in January. And then....all the progress, all the time!! |
| 2018-10-30 10:48 AM in reply to: cdban66 |
Master 7712 Orlando | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED Originally posted by cdban66 Originally posted by marysia83 Originally posted by Hot Runner Not sure about others but for me, a moderately tough trail 10-miler usually is a similar amount of time to a HM on the road. So really it's the same amount of running. Since you're no doubt paying to do the event, as well as training for it. I'd do the one you enjoy the most! This is a very good point. My HM on the road was 2 hours, and on the trail it was 4, so double the time. It is so interesting how different conditions impact the time and pace Another piece to the puzzle is the terrain difficulty of the trails. Trail races here are often not much tougher than roads, although Ragnar Alafia that Ann-Marie did may be an outlier to that. We don't do a ton of vert, so there's that. I guess you may need to analyze a bit before deciding. That said, the trail run always wins for me. True, most trail races in Florida are flat . The difficulty comes in roots and soft sand that are usually part of any trail here. Alafia did have a lot of ups and downs since the trail are mountain bike trails. |
| 2018-10-30 12:17 PM in reply to: Atlantia |
Master 9705 Raleigh, NC area | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED Originally posted by Atlantia Originally posted by cdban66 I think I'll likely do the 5 mile. I know I can comfortably cover that distance on the road now, so I can work up to covering it on trails. The trails around me I am typically a good 3-4 min/mile slower than on the road. Regarding pace....sadly I'm just not very fit. I can point to health issues from the past year, weight gain, whatever, but the bottom line is that walking up slight inclines can give me the spins. Nothing to do but improve! Originally posted by marysia83 Originally posted by Hot Runner Not sure about others but for me, a moderately tough trail 10-miler usually is a similar amount of time to a HM on the road. So really it's the same amount of running. Since you're no doubt paying to do the event, as well as training for it. I'd do the one you enjoy the most! This is a very good point. My HM on the road was 2 hours, and on the trail it was 4, so double the time. It is so interesting how different conditions impact the time and pace Another piece to the puzzle is the terrain difficulty of the trails. Trail races here are often not much tougher than roads, although Ragnar Alafia that Ann-Marie did may be an outlier to that. We don't do a ton of vert, so there's that. I guess you may need to analyze a bit before deciding. That said, the trail run always wins for me. I had my VO2 max tested for cycling a few weeks ago, resulting in a zone 2 pace of a blistering 10.8 mph on perfectly flat ground. My run paces are based off RPE for now, VO2 max test will be in January. And then....all the progress, all the time!! It's fantastic that you did the baseline test. Consistent training we get you headed in the right direction. |
| 2018-10-30 12:39 PM in reply to: jmkizer |
Master 7712 Orlando | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED Originally posted by jmkizer Originally posted by Atlantia Originally posted by cdban66 I think I'll likely do the 5 mile. I know I can comfortably cover that distance on the road now, so I can work up to covering it on trails. The trails around me I am typically a good 3-4 min/mile slower than on the road. Regarding pace....sadly I'm just not very fit. I can point to health issues from the past year, weight gain, whatever, but the bottom line is that walking up slight inclines can give me the spins. Nothing to do but improve! Originally posted by marysia83 Originally posted by Hot Runner Not sure about others but for me, a moderately tough trail 10-miler usually is a similar amount of time to a HM on the road. So really it's the same amount of running. Since you're no doubt paying to do the event, as well as training for it. I'd do the one you enjoy the most! This is a very good point. My HM on the road was 2 hours, and on the trail it was 4, so double the time. It is so interesting how different conditions impact the time and pace Another piece to the puzzle is the terrain difficulty of the trails. Trail races here are often not much tougher than roads, although Ragnar Alafia that Ann-Marie did may be an outlier to that. We don't do a ton of vert, so there's that. I guess you may need to analyze a bit before deciding. That said, the trail run always wins for me. I had my VO2 max tested for cycling a few weeks ago, resulting in a zone 2 pace of a blistering 10.8 mph on perfectly flat ground. My run paces are based off RPE for now, VO2 max test will be in January. And then....all the progress, all the time!! It's fantastic that you did the baseline test. Consistent training we get you headed in the right direction. ive never had a vo2 test, I’m a little jealous! |
| 2018-10-30 2:16 PM in reply to: amd723 |
Master 2429 Falls Church, Virginia | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED Originally posted by amd723 ive never had a vo2 test, I’m a little jealous! I had a discount through my tri team. It was awesome! I had gone to one of the heart rate clinics, which was also super amazing, and knew that I wanted to do the test especially for the cycling, since that's where I struggle the most. The vast majority of the test was fine, and then the last 4ish minutes are insane. I'd say I was panting and snotting everywhere, but with the mask on its really hard to tell. Initially I was really upset. My zone 2 is pretty small, and to keep my HR in the zone, my pace is super slow. But then I reminded myself that's why I took the test in the first place. Clearly three seasons of trying to keep up with my friends on training rides has not helped at all, so I needed to do something different. Now, with a couple weeks to think about it, I'm really excited to train to these zones over the winter on the trainer.With the cold weather, I won't really be missing out on a ton of social riding. And hopefully when things warm up again, I'll be able to keep up with my friends. |
| 2018-10-30 3:12 PM in reply to: Atlantia |
Master 8248 Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED That sounds like an FTP test but maybe worse. Definitely snot everywhere for me. I have also been known to start drooling on the bike in the final minutes. Fortunately that has never happened in a race situation! |
| 2018-10-30 4:36 PM in reply to: Atlantia |
Master 9705 Raleigh, NC area | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED Originally posted by Atlantia Originally posted by amd723 I had a discount through my tri team. It was awesome! I had gone to one of the heart rate clinics, which was also super amazing, and knew that I wanted to do the test especially for the cycling, since that's where I struggle the most. The vast majority of the test was fine, and then the last 4ish minutes are insane. I'd say I was panting and snotting everywhere, but with the mask on its really hard to tell. Initially I was really upset. My zone 2 is pretty small, and to keep my HR in the zone, my pace is super slow. But then I reminded myself that's why I took the test in the first place. Clearly three seasons of trying to keep up with my friends on training rides has not helped at all, so I needed to do something different. Now, with a couple weeks to think about it, I'm really excited to train to these zones over the winter on the trainer.With the cold weather, I won't really be missing out on a ton of social riding. And hopefully when things warm up again, I'll be able to keep up with my friends. ive never had a vo2 test, I’m a little jealous! The panting and snotting sort of made me laugh. Been there, done that! Yup, this will be good to work on during the winter. Nice thinking! |
| 2018-10-31 8:56 AM in reply to: Hot Runner |
Master 2429 Falls Church, Virginia | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED Originally posted by Hot Runner That sounds like an FTP test but maybe worse. Definitely snot everywhere for me. I have also been known to start drooling on the bike in the final minutes. Fortunately that has never happened in a race situation! I keep thinking of the end of cross country races when everyone has a snow/ice beard from their drool freezing. |
| 2018-10-31 4:03 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED I just realized Chatt 70.3 has not quite half the climbing (2400 ft of elevation gain) of LP 70.3 (4182 feet). I may be re-thinking my plans...it will be earlier in the season, too, which hopefully will mean 'not as hot'. Plus I'd see manatees. Gotta do some pondering. Edited by melbo55 2018-10-31 4:10 PM |
| 2018-11-02 6:28 AM in reply to: melbo55 |
Master 9705 Raleigh, NC area | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED Originally posted by melbo55 I just realized Chatt 70.3 has not quite half the climbing (2400 ft of elevation gain) of LP 70.3 (4182 feet). I may be re-thinking my plans...it will be earlier in the season, too, which hopefully will mean 'not as hot'. Plus I'd see manatees. Gotta do some pondering. It would be awesome to see you! Do the race that is right for you, though. I am still hoping for a more general Manatee Meetup. Would any of you consider the Austin Rattler at some future date? I don't think that next March will work for me but maybe sometime, if we can't get a Ragnar (or similar) to work. There is a run (10k, 33k, 66k), a mtb (12 miles, 33k, 100k) and, of course, you can combine them. Do any of you know of other, similar, event weekends? |
| 2018-11-02 8:30 AM in reply to: #5232372 |
Master 6595 Rio Rancho, NM | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED |
| 2018-11-02 9:57 AM in reply to: 0 |
| Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED Originally posted by rrrunner There is one in Colorado that Mary and Alex like. https://oldmanwinterrally.com But...but...there's no oxygen in Colorado! Edited by melbo55 2018-11-02 10:01 AM |
Kidding, kidding. Sort of. I'd probably still be willing to | 2018-11-02 6:01 PM in reply to: melbo55 |
Master 9705 Raleigh, NC area | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED Racing Manatees!!! November 3-4 Is anyone else racing? |
| 2018-11-02 7:55 PM in reply to: melbo55 |
Master 8248 Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED Meh.....Oxygen is overrated. You should see the enthusiastic runners at Crater Lake every year. Just don't sign up for the Everest Golden Jubilee. |
| 2018-11-03 3:26 PM in reply to: jmkizer |
Champion 14677 Bronze member | Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED Originally posted by jmkizer Racing Manatees!!! November 3-4 Is anyone else racing? Race well everybody! |
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