Fred D Mentor Group Part III (Page 106)

Cry like a biatch: I skipped my four mile run yesterday.  So today, after getting in my planned run this morning, I'm going to double up and run two extra this afternoon and then 2 tomorrow after computrainer class.  It's raining and 45F now.  I think that's like 7C for the Canadians out there.

Just an update on my Endurance Nation Outseason.  I am through 6 weeks and absolutely love the plan and the results thus far.  I will be testing again next week and am expecting a nice bump in FTP on the bike.  I started with a VDOT of 54 and am beginning to see flashes of possibly a 56 VDOT which would be huge for me.

As far as the team goes..I cancelled last night.  I just did not get any value out of the 'team' for the price.  I think it is good for beginners (the forums) as it provides a nice place to get great information from smart people and leaves out the garbage that you get from BT and ST.  I just did not get any value from it and I do not need motivation to get my workouts done.  They do have a really sweet website though with a great bank of information.

I really love the training plan though...fits my lifestlye really well and is providing rapid results thus far that I did not expect so quickly.

I know some folks were considering it so thought I would throw it out there.  Let me know if you have any specific questions.

Hey Tom - glad to hear you are on the mend!

Oh, good lord Jennifer!

In all honesty, I do love me some Excel....

Jennifer - really sorry to hear about your Mom. You are right, you really will not suffer physically from a few weeks of missing workouts - but it can me tough mentally. First things first though, and it sounds like you have your priorities straight. We will leave a light on for you in case you get back to the group late.

That's great Ryan!  Do you find the plan significantly different from what you have done in the past?

Oh, I missed this in the flurry of posts today.  Sorry to hear about your Mom Jennifer, I hope everything turns out ok.  With any luck you'll be back in the swing of things in no time.

Definitely a change in the run program..went from high frequency mostly EP runs to lots of threshold repeats which I think have shocked the system a bit.

The bike is not overly different other than being consistent with 3 hard bike workouts a week.  It was really easy to just roll over and take an easier day in the past when I had no plan. 

The plan is hard work but it also allows plenty of time for recovery.  I have been swimming once a week but more as a recovery/technique type workout and not much hard work in the pool during this phase.

Nice update Rymac.  I admit to stalking you a bit the past few weeks and you are executing nicely.  What I noticed is that you have to be "on" for your workouts and there is no BSing and going out for easy runs for the sake of frequency or volume.  It is straight up threshold intervals and not as much VO2 stuff, at least yet that I noticed.  I have a copy of an old outseason plan from a couple years ago that appears similar.

Is there anything that you have the "urge" to change or modify?  Just curious.  I actually like it and with the intensity I think I'd enjoy that.  I get nervous because I notice I feel like crap when I'm not running enough and have been slowly building back until I start getting in 40+ again...but it is a lot of fluff miles...If I did that 25mpw all quality maybe I could feel good about it.  Especially with those three bike sessions.

Now that you posted and I see your volume, I should have started that plan because I think I could execute.  Maybe I'll jump in there for a few weeks for fun to see how I like it.

I think you have a lot of good advice - the only thing I would add is that maybe you give it a shot with your longest run being in the 16~17 mile range I don't run long by distance, but by time - I try to do all my long runs on fairly rugged trails and cap them at 2:30). The only reason I have found to run longer is to build confidence that you can cover the distance, and with your race back ground you should have plenty of that. Unless you are running REALLY big miles, those 20+ mile runs will really compromise all of your other runs. Of course elite runners have no problem running a steady diet of 20+, but that is a much smaller percentage of their overall load compared to us that regularly run only 30-40. With two 10 milers per week followed by a progressively long run on the weekend your plan looks like a lot of junky, sloggy miles IMHO. Here are a few links to articles about the Hanson Brother's training plans - and tey know a thing or two about marathons.

If you scroll all the way down both of these have a sample schedule at the bottom:

http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/new-year-new-you-way-renegades

http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/marathoning-hansons-way

ETA: and oh, here is a recent one from TT, actually - looks like our very own Ben chimed in:

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=463602&start=1

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I think paying attention to recovery is especially critical to hit everything.  I thought the run workouts would destroy me but that has not been the case at all.  Two of the four run workouts each week have threshold intervals and the other two are EZ with strides and a progressive run ending near MP depending on your VDOT.

Volume is typically in the 6-8 range with opportunity to add some time on the weekends where it fits in.  The only thing I guess I have modified at this point is adding in a swim (hopefully two here soon) and sometimes a frequency run (short and EZ).  I think the plan is really good as written though.

The run workouts do switch from Threshold to VO2 in Week 9 of the 2013 plan.  So lots of intervals at I pace (5K pace).

Ooooh, I love a good opportunity to cry like a biatch - i'll go:

I have been dying to get out on a Wednesday 11am group ride that rolls from within a 5 minute bike ride of our house. I heard through the grapevine that they were starting winter pace today. So at 11am on the dot we roll out, nice and easy for about 50 minutes. Cool - I counted 21 folks which is a nice sized group for 5c/40f. We get to a a grippy bit of the ride and I am lollygagging at the back, chatting it up with some folks that I have not seen in a while. BAM! the guys at the front are on it, and I get caught out not paying attention. I worked to get across the gap, but didn't really commit to it as in the back of my mind I was thinking, "oh they are just having a bit of fun - it's a winter-pace ride." The gap opened up, and I quickly figured out they were on it for real, with me and one other dude caught in no-man's land between the break up front and the "eff-that" group off the back. I wish this turned out to be one of those stories where I did the Fred D group proud, but I shamefully have to report that we made no progress on the break (we actually lost ground) and even (horrors!) short-cutted the route to get back on. Sorry folks, I feel that I may have let you all down.

The good news is that winter pace starts NEXT week with points and prizes and everything. Hopefully I have recovered by then.

Ah, finally a safe-haven on BT where we can talk about running intervals....

Really nice progress, Ryan, thanks for the update. I too am looking forward to following you along now. I see you have a new years day run scheduled, but do you have others that you are really targeting, or is this just working on a limiter for tri season (sorry - you may have covered it earlier bit I missed it).

ETA - just looked at your plan - obviously both run/bike focused - sorry for the dumb question without looking.

hum, interesting.  I guess if your week day mileage is sufficient enough that could work.  I could conduct my own little experiment. 

Was thinking along the same lines (didn't look at the links though). Do what you can with the volume, but don't become obsessed with the long run reaching as far as you can get it. It can become counterproductive. Not that you go backwards, but maybe stall a bit. Also remember that an elite is likely to go at 7:00 pacing or faster, covering that 20 miler in 2:20 or less. So under the 2:30 that was mentioned.

Can't swim masters tonite due to a work party, so went in early this a.m. and made up my own set.  You'd thnik since I was in control I'd do something easy, but this is what I came up with for the main set:

20 x 100 as 4X

100 free on 1:35
100 free on 1:30
100 free on 1:25
100 free on 1:20
100 IM on Survive...  :60 rest between sets of 5.

Transition from 4 to 5 essentially sucked as much as you'd think it would.

Also, just getting over my foot tendonitis, almost 100%.  Will run very little in December.  Out of curiosity, since this seemed "familiar" I went back and looked at my logs through 2009.  Turns out that every year, either in November or December, I am knocked out of running for some injury or another, as I ramp up the "off season" miles.   Insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? 

This is the major reason I am considering a coach for 2013.  Even though it didn't go well in 2009, I got sick before we ever had a chance to work out the kinks and come to some agreement over the plans.  Plus, I am a much different person, in so many facets, than I was in early 2009.

At the very very least, this is a HUGE benefit of BT, and the logs are a tremendous tool.

This is often what I end up doing when I have to make something up as well - beat myself to a pulp.    100s on 1:20 is rough, I had a few of those on Wednesday.  Nicely done, I can't imagine having to do a 25 fly immediately after!

I hear ya - this was me with treadmills.  Every year I would hurt my knee in the Dec/Jan timeframe when I would try to learn how to run on one properly.  This year I declared myself allergic to them and refuse to get on one!  Glad to hear it is finally coming around for you.

Agreed, great logs if you take the time to use them!