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SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN (Page 107)
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 2013-10-16 12:58 PM in reply to: axteraa |
Master  1927     Guilford, CT |  Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPENOriginally posted by axteraa Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by acumenjay Rusty, nice work. I'm still trying to build my running back up to the point where I can absorb consistent quality workouts but am hoping for a track session tomorrow after an easier couple days. Since we are all talking power, I'm sure some of you have already seen it but nice little thread on ST with Kona AG power data. It is nice to see what FOP AGers are doing besides just the FOP pros. Pretty crazy how 'easy' of a day it looked to be in comparison to other. A lot of sub 5 rides with efforts that aren't all that high. Obviously solid work and some had great runs but taking the the bike data in isolation it looks to have been a really fast course. http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=4810867;sb=post_latest_... We were looking at Sam Gyde's profile before, but one of the guys is claiming 327 NP for 4:32 (Sam was 288 NP). His linked file is set to private, so can't see it. Sound like it's Josh Beck (Lake Placid and others) from Kyle Yost's posting. Josh Beck and Sami Inkinen were the only ones to ride 4:32 so the odds are good. 327 NP seems like a lot for that time? Unless he's an aero brick or had a lower AP / huge VI that skewed the NP to speed? I was thinking it sounded like a lot and it could be a high VI. I'm not sure how big he is, but having checked just his Placid race this year the guy dropped a 4:40. MOST AGers don't even break 5 at IMLP (literally just a few). Potts did 4:48. So I doubt he is that big of a guy to do that on a course with some elevation. He may not be perfectly aero but I'd gues, just a guess, that at 4:32 is reasonable seeing how the pointy end of the men's pro field is racing a different race and are working together. Looks like he swam a 1:17 so he probably gets out of the water and spends the first half of the bike having to surge and pass groups of people...Obviously just hypothesizing on how it would play out but not out of the realm of possibility. |
| 2013-10-16 1:19 PM in reply to: acumenjay |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Just looking at that thread gives me hope sometimes - and also baffles me at the same time. 4:49 on 201 watts...how does that happen??? |
| 2013-10-16 2:32 PM in reply to: 0 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by acumenjay I was thinking it sounded like a lot and it could be a high VI. I'm not sure how big he is, but having checked just his Placid race this year the guy dropped a 4:40. MOST AGers don't even break 5 at IMLP (literally just a few). Potts did 4:48. So I doubt he is that big of a guy to do that on a course with some elevation. He may not be perfectly aero but I'd gues, just a guess, that at 4:32 is reasonable seeing how the pointy end of the men's pro field is racing a different race and are working together. Looks like he swam a 1:17 so he probably gets out of the water and spends the first half of the bike having to surge and pass groups of people...Obviously just hypothesizing on how it would play out but not out of the realm of possibility. Doesn't look like that big of a guy, nor an aero brick (even with the non aero helmet!). Having his jersey unzipped probably didn't help either. Neil, the 4:49 on 201w is pretty slippery. Apparently the trick is to be Canadian! edited for bad cutting and pasting
Edited by axteraa 2013-10-16 2:33 PM |
| 2013-10-16 2:35 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp... Edited by Jason N 2013-10-16 2:40 PM |
| 2013-10-16 2:40 PM in reply to: Jason N |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN The new update is murdering the format of the trip report I wanted to include. I'll get that up later. |
| 2013-10-16 3:01 PM in reply to: Jason N |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by Jason N http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp... Great report Jason. As a good friend once wrote, ultimately it's not about the time it took you to get from the start to the finish, but about the time you had in between |
| 2013-10-16 4:03 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN I like that saying Chris. Really rings true for me.Now that said...someone talk me off the ledge. I busted my butt running tons of mileage this whole year...and I really have nothing to show for it. I struggled at Honu, and barely "ran" more than 2 miles at Kona. Strongly considering exploring if I should do the Honolulu Marathon. I signed up long ago for the super discounted rate of $26, so it's of no additional cost to me. I wouldn't wreck myself training for the next 6 weeks, just sort of maintain maybe 30-40 mpw and just see what happens. My legs feel really good right now. And there's a 30k race next weekend that I may give a shot just to see where I'm at. |
| 2013-10-16 5:10 PM in reply to: Jason N |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN |
 2013-10-16 5:29 PM in reply to: axteraa |
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| 2013-10-16 5:31 PM in reply to: Jason N |
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| 2013-10-16 6:07 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by ChrisM SILVERMAN!!!!!!!! http://www.ironman.com/triathlon/events/americas/ironman-70.3/silverman.aspx#axzz2hvJ4kGbZ And the swim is in Lake Mead! Going to be fun riding up and out of there. |
| 2013-10-16 6:24 PM in reply to: brigby1 |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Never got to do silverman but have raced a few times out of lake mead. Absolutely gorgeous swim and desert scenery. and a solidly tough course to boot |
| 2013-10-16 8:34 PM in reply to: axteraa |
| Veteran 1677 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by axteraa Neil, the 4:49 on 201w is pretty slippery. Apparently the trick is to be Canadian! Or be the size of a small girl If I could hold 201W for 112 miles, I think I could be that fast....but I can't. Just thinking about that is insane. The amount of time and effort these elite AG'ers / pros put in and the results they get are just incredible. |
| 2013-10-16 9:06 PM in reply to: ligersandtions |
| Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by ligersandtions Originally posted by axteraa Neil, the 4:49 on 201w is pretty slippery. Apparently the trick is to be Canadian! Or be the size of a small girl If I could hold 201W for 112 miles, I think I could be that fast....but I can't. Just thinking about that is insane. The amount of time and effort these elite AG'ers / pros put in and the results they get are just incredible. I look at that number, and I think, wow...that's almost possible (with a lot of improvement), but my position must suck, cause I'm nowhere close to fast enough, on higher watts at shorter distances. |
| 2013-10-16 9:26 PM in reply to: GoFaster |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by ligersandtions Originally posted by axteraa Neil, the 4:49 on 201w is pretty slippery. Apparently the trick is to be Canadian! Or be the size of a small girl If I could hold 201W for 112 miles, I think I could be that fast....but I can't. Just thinking about that is insane. The amount of time and effort these elite AG'ers / pros put in and the results they get are just incredible. I look at that number, and I think, wow...that's almost possible (with a lot of improvement), but my position must suck, cause I'm nowhere close to fast enough, on higher watts at shorter distances. Don't forget the ability to slipstream well. I don't have numbers to quantify, but do believe that there is skill involved with this. Lots of ducking in and out would need some ability to keep up momentum well. |
| 2013-10-16 9:38 PM in reply to: Fred D |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN I think you're right Fred...I must have lost my mind. There is a half marathon in mid November. If I still feel like running in a few weeks (BIG IF), I may give that a shot. It be nice to crack 1:40, which shouldn't be too big a hurdle if my legs cooperate. And if they don't, it's not that difficult to LSR the last 3-5 miles with huge recovery costs. Maybe I just need to go for a ride. Chasing some strava segments might cure this little itch just fine too.  |
| 2013-10-17 5:24 AM in reply to: Jason N |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2013-10-17 5:26 AM in reply to: Jason N |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2013-10-17 7:45 AM in reply to: Jason N |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by Jason N I think you're right Fred...I must have lost my mind. There is a half marathon in mid November. If I still feel like running in a few weeks (BIG IF), I may give that a shot. It be nice to crack 1:40, which shouldn't be too big a hurdle if my legs cooperate. And if they don't, it's not that difficult to LSR the last 3-5 miles with huge recovery costs. Maybe I just need to go for a ride. Chasing some strava segments might cure this little itch just fine too. Hey Jason I felt the same kind of desire to run after Tahoe. Basically all that run training I did over the past year went to waste because the bike course and weather destroyed me. I want to see some payoff for the time I put in! But I agree with Fred -- I wouldn't push to do a marathon too soon. IM recovery is a little sneaky. You feel recovered after a couple weeks but it's more like 80%, or at least for me. |
| 2013-10-17 7:57 AM in reply to: Fred D |
| Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by Fred D Agree with Ben on the drafting/slipstream. Kona has a ton of fast swimmer and bikers who ride together and even the fastest AGers are passing, well, fast AGers. Bryan Dunn always said Kona had a lot of drafting, just due to the nature of the field. Josh Beck's numbers are truly incredible though. Much more power than any pro out there and also he got to pass a 1,000+ people so some draft advantage! and yet he rode 10' slower than the top 3 pro's.... But even look at Paul Devanish's bike split - and his position!! 5:20 on 191 AP/201 NP - and he's almost sitting up. |
| 2013-10-17 8:06 AM in reply to: Fred D |
| Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by Fred D Agree with Ben on the drafting/slipstream. Kona has a ton of fast swimmer and bikers who ride together and even the fastest AGers are passing, well, fast AGers. Bryan Dunn always said Kona had a lot of drafting, just due to the nature of the field. Josh Beck's numbers are truly incredible though. Much more power than any pro out there and also he got to pass a 1,000+ people so some draft advantage! and yet he rode 10' slower than the top 3 pro's.... Goes to show you I think how dialed in the pros are now a days with their position. I forget the percentage they were saying that front group saves by working together in the legal draft, but that mixed with the weight difference and a less than perfect position really do add up to a lot. I can't believe that guy went 4:40 at IMLP at 178lbs. That is pretty incredible. Andy Potts went 4:48 and a FOP AG split there is low 5:20s for the most part (you get some low 5s too). I think Potts having to work alone out front of that race without other pros to work with shows how much slower it is. There really isn't another way around it, he is anomaly on the bike. |
| 2013-10-17 8:10 AM in reply to: acumenjay |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by acumenjay Originally posted by Fred D Agree with Ben on the drafting/slipstream. Kona has a ton of fast swimmer and bikers who ride together and even the fastest AGers are passing, well, fast AGers. Bryan Dunn always said Kona had a lot of drafting, just due to the nature of the field. Josh Beck's numbers are truly incredible though. Much more power than any pro out there and also he got to pass a 1,000+ people so some draft advantage! and yet he rode 10' slower than the top 3 pro's.... Goes to show you I think how dialed in the pros are now a days with their position. I forget the percentage they were saying that front group saves by working together in the legal draft, but that mixed with the weight difference and a less than perfect position really do add up to a lot. I can't believe that guy went 4:40 at IMLP at 178lbs. That is pretty incredible. Andy Potts went 4:48 and a FOP AG split there is low 5:20s for the most part (you get some low 5s too). I think Potts having to work alone out front of that race without other pros to work with shows how much slower it is. There really isn't another way around it, he is anomaly on the bike. Do know that he is a very good professional duathlete and was a pro cyclist at one point, though not sure what level he got to there. |
| 2013-10-17 8:13 AM in reply to: spudone |
| Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by spudone Originally posted by Jason N I think you're right Fred...I must have lost my mind. There is a half marathon in mid November. If I still feel like running in a few weeks (BIG IF), I may give that a shot. It be nice to crack 1:40, which shouldn't be too big a hurdle if my legs cooperate. And if they don't, it's not that difficult to LSR the last 3-5 miles with huge recovery costs. Maybe I just need to go for a ride. Chasing some strava segments might cure this little itch just fine too. Hey Jason I felt the same kind of desire to run after Tahoe. Basically all that run training I did over the past year went to waste because the bike course and weather destroyed me. I want to see some payoff for the time I put in! But I agree with Fred -- I wouldn't push to do a marathon too soon. IM recovery is a little sneaky. You feel recovered after a couple weeks but it's more like 80%, or at least for me. 6 weeks is too soon. Same thing happened to me when I made a bunch of rookie Ironman mistakes. I was frustrated and did a marathon a few months later. You'll end up with some sneaky fatigue and then by the time you recover it'll be too late to really put any work in and the marathon will be around the corner, you'll suffer through it and then be back in the hole another couple weeks. I'd really think hard about what you want to get out of it and if you are willing to basically just toss out the couple months of training for it. If you are cool with that and want to go have fun and trot it out then that's fine but just know going in. |
| 2013-10-17 9:18 AM in reply to: GoFaster |
| Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by Fred D Agree with Ben on the drafting/slipstream. Kona has a ton of fast swimmer and bikers who ride together and even the fastest AGers are passing, well, fast AGers. Bryan Dunn always said Kona had a lot of drafting, just due to the nature of the field. Josh Beck's numbers are truly incredible though. Much more power than any pro out there and also he got to pass a 1,000+ people so some draft advantage! and yet he rode 10' slower than the top 3 pro's.... But even look at Paul Devanish's bike split - and his position!! 5:20 on 191 AP/201 NP - and he's almost sitting up. As much as he likes to say it, his position isn't really all that bad. He passed me at IMMT last year and his position is pretty decent on the eyeball aero wind tunnel scale. He's also 5'6", 140 lbs. |
| 2013-10-17 9:35 AM in reply to: GoFaster |
| Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN Neil, check this app out! http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/10/automated-measurement-review.htm... I literally just saw the review pop onto my feed and it seemed timely. Pretty cool looking app. I'm going to have to get it. |
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