SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN (Page 108)
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by acumenjay Neil, check this app out! http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/10/automated-measurement-review.htm... I literally just saw the review pop onto my feed and it seemed timely. Pretty cool looking app. I'm going to have to get it. I saw that this morning too - I'm going to have to try it as well. Looks neat. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by acumenjay Neil, check this app out! http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/10/automated-measurement-review.htm... I literally just saw the review pop onto my feed and it seemed timely. Pretty cool looking app. I'm going to have to get it. I saw that this morning too - I'm going to have to try it as well. Looks neat. from Ray's review: "Or, probably more practically it can just be used to quickly see what your own fit angles are, and documenting them." That alone is worth 3 bucks to me. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by Fred D Agree with Ben on the drafting/slipstream. Kona has a ton of fast swimmer and bikers who ride together and even the fastest AGers are passing, well, fast AGers. Bryan Dunn always said Kona had a lot of drafting, just due to the nature of the field. Josh Beck's numbers are truly incredible though. Much more power than any pro out there and also he got to pass a 1,000+ people so some draft advantage! and yet he rode 10' slower than the top 3 pro's.... But even look at Paul Devanish's bike split - and his position!! 5:20 on 191 AP/201 NP - and he's almost sitting up. As much as he likes to say it, his position isn't really all that bad. He passed me at IMMT last year and his position is pretty decent on the eyeball aero wind tunnel scale. He's also 5'6", 140 lbs. I did a 2:39 half at 170 watts the year before last, so maybe he needs some work? |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by spudone Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by Fred D Agree with Ben on the drafting/slipstream. Kona has a ton of fast swimmer and bikers who ride together and even the fastest AGers are passing, well, fast AGers. Bryan Dunn always said Kona had a lot of drafting, just due to the nature of the field. Josh Beck's numbers are truly incredible though. Much more power than any pro out there and also he got to pass a 1,000+ people so some draft advantage! and yet he rode 10' slower than the top 3 pro's.... But even look at Paul Devanish's bike split - and his position!! 5:20 on 191 AP/201 NP - and he's almost sitting up. As much as he likes to say it, his position isn't really all that bad. He passed me at IMMT last year and his position is pretty decent on the eyeball aero wind tunnel scale. He's also 5'6", 140 lbs. I did a 2:39 half at 170 watts the year before last, so maybe he needs some work? This is really making me want to blame the bike so I can get a new one ... |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by TankBoy Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by acumenjay Neil, check this app out! http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/10/automated-measurement-review.htm... I literally just saw the review pop onto my feed and it seemed timely. Pretty cool looking app. I'm going to have to get it. I saw that this morning too - I'm going to have to try it as well. Looks neat. from Ray's review: "Or, probably more practically it can just be used to quickly see what your own fit angles are, and documenting them." That alone is worth 3 bucks to me. Very cool Jay - I'm going to have to try this one out on my wife's phone. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by spudone Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by Fred D Agree with Ben on the drafting/slipstream. Kona has a ton of fast swimmer and bikers who ride together and even the fastest AGers are passing, well, fast AGers. Bryan Dunn always said Kona had a lot of drafting, just due to the nature of the field. Josh Beck's numbers are truly incredible though. Much more power than any pro out there and also he got to pass a 1,000+ people so some draft advantage! and yet he rode 10' slower than the top 3 pro's.... But even look at Paul Devanish's bike split - and his position!! 5:20 on 191 AP/201 NP - and he's almost sitting up. As much as he likes to say it, his position isn't really all that bad. He passed me at IMMT last year and his position is pretty decent on the eyeball aero wind tunnel scale. He's also 5'6", 140 lbs. I did a 2:39 half at 170 watts the year before last, so maybe he needs some work? Mark - I also remember you had a solid bike at IMC on similar type watts. Just keep making me jealous... I'm going to play with the above app and post what I come up with over the next few days. But I'm quite sure that part of my problem is I'm too comfortable when racing - meaning I'm not paying enough attention to my position, and getting too high, where I should be turtling more often. At least that's a guess. I'm 6'1, but slight, so in my mind it's about making myself lower. I don't think I can get much narrower, my pads at the moment are a bottle width apart, and any closer I feel a lot of pressure on my shoulders. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by GoFaster Mark - I also remember you had a solid bike at IMC on similar type watts. Just keep making me jealous... I'm going to play with the above app and post what I come up with over the next few days. But I'm quite sure that part of my problem is I'm too comfortable when racing - meaning I'm not paying enough attention to my position, and getting too high, where I should be turtling more often. At least that's a guess. I'm 6'1, but slight, so in my mind it's about making myself lower. I don't think I can get much narrower, my pads at the moment are a bottle width apart, and any closer I feel a lot of pressure on my shoulders. I don't ride super low but I've tinkered with a few things in my setup using my power meter to check them. Which, btw, is something I recommend for everyone who has a power meter. I live about a mile from a velodrome so I can always get out there for some fairly neutral outdoor testing. This was from Tahoe: My arms aren't super close together but my elbows are in-line with my knees, and I have a torpedo bottle between my arms. Edited by spudone 2013-10-17 11:43 AM |
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![]() Managed a 40 minute run yesterday that felt pretty good and rode into work today. I'm going to be trying to commute by riding as much as possible over the winter and maybe a lot next year as well. It's about 17 miles one way, and given the traffic here during rush hour, it only adds about 25 minutes of commuting time while being a lot more fun. |
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![]() Jason, you're a lot younger than me and went into IM in better shape, but it took me abou 6-8 weeks before I felt like I was getting "normal" workouts in again As for 2014, season slowly taking shape June 1 - Escape from Alcatraz Oct. 5 - Silverman 70.3 other things on the table April - New Orleans 70.3 May - Wildflower 70.3 or Oly September - SOS if I get in the lottery....
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![]() Originally posted by acumenjay Thanks. Good to hear that I'm not the only one who's felt this way. Originally posted by spudone 6 weeks is too soon. Same thing happened to me when I made a bunch of rookie Ironman mistakes. I was frustrated and did a marathon a few months later. You'll end up with some sneaky fatigue and then by the time you recover it'll be too late to really put any work in and the marathon will be around the corner, you'll suffer through it and then be back in the hole another couple weeks. I'd really think hard about what you want to get out of it and if you are willing to basically just toss out the couple months of training for it. If you are cool with that and want to go have fun and trot it out then that's fine but just know going in. Originally posted by Jason N I think you're right Fred...I must have lost my mind. There is a half marathon in mid November. If I still feel like running in a few weeks (BIG IF), I may give that a shot. It be nice to crack 1:40, which shouldn't be too big a hurdle if my legs cooperate. And if they don't, it's not that difficult to LSR the last 3-5 miles with huge recovery costs. Maybe I just need to go for a ride. Chasing some strava segments might cure this little itch just fine too. ![]() Hey Jason I felt the same kind of desire to run after Tahoe. Basically all that run training I did over the past year went to waste because the bike course and weather destroyed me. I want to see some payoff for the time I put in! But I agree with Fred -- I wouldn't push to do a marathon too soon. IM recovery is a little sneaky. You feel recovered after a couple weeks but it's more like 80%, or at least for me. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by spudone Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by Fred D Agree with Ben on the drafting/slipstream. Kona has a ton of fast swimmer and bikers who ride together and even the fastest AGers are passing, well, fast AGers. Bryan Dunn always said Kona had a lot of drafting, just due to the nature of the field. Josh Beck's numbers are truly incredible though. Much more power than any pro out there and also he got to pass a 1,000+ people so some draft advantage! and yet he rode 10' slower than the top 3 pro's.... But even look at Paul Devanish's bike split - and his position!! 5:20 on 191 AP/201 NP - and he's almost sitting up. As much as he likes to say it, his position isn't really all that bad. He passed me at IMMT last year and his position is pretty decent on the eyeball aero wind tunnel scale. He's also 5'6", 140 lbs. I did a 2:39 half at 170 watts the year before last, so maybe he needs some work? Mark - I also remember you had a solid bike at IMC on similar type watts. Just keep making me jealous... I'm going to play with the above app and post what I come up with over the next few days. But I'm quite sure that part of my problem is I'm too comfortable when racing - meaning I'm not paying enough attention to my position, and getting too high, where I should be turtling more often. At least that's a guess. I'm 6'1, but slight, so in my mind it's about making myself lower. I don't think I can get much narrower, my pads at the moment are a bottle width apart, and any closer I feel a lot of pressure on my shoulders. Yeah Mark, that is crazy! On my last "normal" rolling HIM course I went 2:29 on 195w (205 normalized) and I thought THAT was pretty good.... Neil - following my fitters advice 3 years ago I did a fair amount of testing in the way Mark describes using my power meter on a controlled course (not a velodrome though) and found out that I was slightly more aero overall with my arms actually wider. I am kinda small (5'10" 155lbs) with narrow shoulders but a little larger chest and apparently the slightly wider elbows allow my head/neck/spine to sink between my shoulders much more comfortably. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by TankBoy Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by spudone Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by Fred D Agree with Ben on the drafting/slipstream. Kona has a ton of fast swimmer and bikers who ride together and even the fastest AGers are passing, well, fast AGers. Bryan Dunn always said Kona had a lot of drafting, just due to the nature of the field. Josh Beck's numbers are truly incredible though. Much more power than any pro out there and also he got to pass a 1,000+ people so some draft advantage! and yet he rode 10' slower than the top 3 pro's.... But even look at Paul Devanish's bike split - and his position!! 5:20 on 191 AP/201 NP - and he's almost sitting up. As much as he likes to say it, his position isn't really all that bad. He passed me at IMMT last year and his position is pretty decent on the eyeball aero wind tunnel scale. He's also 5'6", 140 lbs. I did a 2:39 half at 170 watts the year before last, so maybe he needs some work? Mark - I also remember you had a solid bike at IMC on similar type watts. Just keep making me jealous... I'm going to play with the above app and post what I come up with over the next few days. But I'm quite sure that part of my problem is I'm too comfortable when racing - meaning I'm not paying enough attention to my position, and getting too high, where I should be turtling more often. At least that's a guess. I'm 6'1, but slight, so in my mind it's about making myself lower. I don't think I can get much narrower, my pads at the moment are a bottle width apart, and any closer I feel a lot of pressure on my shoulders. Yeah Mark, that is crazy! On my last "normal" rolling HIM course I went 2:29 on 195w (205 normalized) and I thought THAT was pretty good.... Neil - following my fitters advice 3 years ago I did a fair amount of testing in the way Mark describes using my power meter on a controlled course (not a velodrome though) and found out that I was slightly more aero overall with my arms actually wider. I am kinda small (5'10" 155lbs) with narrow shoulders but a little larger chest and apparently the slightly wider elbows allow my head/neck/spine to sink between my shoulders much more comfortably. Good stuff guys - interesting on the wider arms piece. When you're outdoor testing are you using the Chung method. I've never really looked at it closely because I understood that you basically needed calm conditions in order to make it work for you - plus you had to have a slight downhill without traffic. There's actually a velodrome just over an hour away from me, but they only allow track bikes - nothing lese permitted. But by the end of next year the new velodrome for the pan am games is going to be completed - 5min from my house. Hoping they allow other bikes on that track. But for now, I'm curious to know what protocol I can use that is not uber-complicated. I know Marc is knowlegeable on the Chung method. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Neil - it may have been a dumb way to do it, but I basically did a fixed speed test at a 3 different speeds and a number of runs (3 at each speed) and then just looked at the power numbers for each set up. Very flat, slightly uphill if anything - which seemed to make it easier to do a fixed speed test to me. I used my coaches running metronome and stayed in a fixed gear for each test (i.e.: rode by cadence), so it was very easy to hold my speed and position without fumbling around with or watching my computer. I can't remember exactly, but the runs were maybe about 3/4 of a mile long and the data was trimmed by a couple of seconds at the in and out points, I think to isolate the hitting of the lap button from the good data. Testing this way was down and dirty, but it seemed to give reasonable information. Biggest issue I think is that it is only good for what it is - you can't simply change your setup and repeat it on a different day without repeating the whole test. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Thought this post by Steve McGregor over here was rather interesting. The topic was on Zone 2 training on the bike and a comment on Z3 possibly being "junk". I haven't posted in a while, so, I'll keep my account active with this one.... Actually, more correctly, Zone/Level 2 is "junk". I remember doing a USAC power clinic in San Fran a couple years ago and was asked a very similar question. I told them I don't set out to prescribe ANY L2, even in the "Base" phase, there was a gasp from the throng (ok, a bit of an overstatement, but there were probably 60 in attendance and there really was a collective gasp.... I have that effect on people), and the questioner had a puzzled look on her face. I elaborated by saying I figure out 1) how much total time there is to train 2) how much/many interval(s) training there will be and the rest is pretty much L2. For the most part, L2 is really filler and there is really very little training bang for the buck unless you're training 20 hr per week. At the same time, it's typically the default level the athlete reverts to when recovering between hard efforts, so, most get plenty of it without any focused effort. Along these lines, at the clinic, in an attempt to alleviate the questioner's quizzical look, I further clarified that it didn't mean that my athletes don't do any L2, quite the contrary, unless you're only training 6 hr per week, between WU, CD and rest between intervals and easy days, L2 is still typically the single biggest component of training load. That being said, it shouldn't be a target training zone/level; at it least shouldn't be for most people. Even athletes who are training really hard (think of the hardest trainer you can think of) still get the majority of their training in L2 by default. In contrast to this, L3 is actually quite good in terms of bang for the buck. You can do a fair bit of it frequently with minimal requisite recovery. Granted, extended periods of L3 focus may lead to staleness, but as a focus of the "base" phase, it's hard to go wrong doing a bunch of L3. Still, if you plot your overall training zone/level distribution during this period, it should still come out with L2 being the single largest component, that is unless your total volume is low. There is the old school mentality that L3 falls into the "no man's land" region of training, but that's really a remnant of the days when all we had was Polar Vantage monitors, Winning Mag and Eddie B's book to go by for training guidance. Anybody who says that L3 is junk is a bit like an unfrozen caveman lawyer. Steve |
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![]() TO my coach's dismay I turn many of my L2 workouts into L3 versions.... |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by ChrisM TO my coach's dismay I turn many of my L2 workouts into L3 versions.... yeah, I am pretty sure my coach assigns me z2 workouts because it is the only way he can get me to do Z3.... |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() It isn't necessarily a problem if you're still able to hit the Z4 & Z5 work sets ok. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Do you think his comments are specific to cycling or are intended to include running as well? Edited by GoFaster 2013-10-18 7:38 AM |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by GoFaster Do you think his comments are specific to cycling or are intended to include running as well? Probably more about the bike. That being said, the bulk of my running is Z3. A quick look in TP for this year 50% of my running (by pace) is Z3, 20% Z4, 15% Z2, 11% Z5, 4% Z1 |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by GoFaster Probably more about the bike. That being said, the bulk of my running is Z3. A quick look in TP for this year 50% of my running (by pace) is Z3, 20% Z4, 15% Z2, 11% Z5, 4% Z1 Do you think his comments are specific to cycling or are intended to include running as well? Think so too. I tend push the edge of Z2/Z3 for my running as well. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by GoFaster Probably more about the bike. That being said, the bulk of my running is Z3. A quick look in TP for this year 50% of my running (by pace) is Z3, 20% Z4, 15% Z2, 11% Z5, 4% Z1 Do you think his comments are specific to cycling or are intended to include running as well? Think so too. I tend push the edge of Z2/Z3 for my running as well. Very similar. If I just go by feel not looking at a watch or PM for the run, I have a tendency to be in Z3 but closer to Z2 than Z4. First 2km is Z2 and I fall into Z3 at that point. for the bike, I have a natural tendency to be in very high Z2, just below the Z3 line. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by GoFaster Probably more about the bike. That being said, the bulk of my running is Z3. A quick look in TP for this year 50% of my running (by pace) is Z3, 20% Z4, 15% Z2, 11% Z5, 4% Z1 Do you think his comments are specific to cycling or are intended to include running as well? Can someone school me on how to quickly get that info from TP? |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Ok, I found a chart. I'm well over 50% in Z2 - probably closer to 60-70 many weeks. Edit - found another chart (I shoudl check this stuff out more often - lol). Z1 - 8% Z2 - 58% Z3 - 21%
Edited by axteraa 2013-10-18 10:09 AM |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() So do any of you rely on HR zones when running, or are you strictly paying attention to pace zones or RPE (but you also collect the HR data)? |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by GoFaster So do any of you rely on HR zones when running, or are you strictly paying attention to pace zones or RPE (but you also collect the HR data)? I watch all 3. |
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