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Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 (Page 11)
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 2010-11-04 9:37 PM in reply to: #3195826 |
Veteran  147   SC |  Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011JorgeM - 2010-11-04 7:03 PM owl_girl - 2010-11-04 3:40 PM No need to go through a suffer fest... until the next testing time  This week has been testing suffer fest for me. Monday 20'TT on the trainer, Wed. 5k for time, Thurs 500meter and 200 meter ALL OUT for time in the pool. SUFFER FEST! Edited by Lo-Daddy 2010-11-04 9:38 PM |
| 2010-11-04 10:22 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
Expert 913 Lost in the Evergreens | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Looks like I'm the first back with 3MP results and I'm ready to be schooled on Power. |
| 2010-11-04 10:30 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
Veteran 276 Cedar Rapids, IA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 3 min test done. Who would have thought 3 minutes could hurt so much??? Goal for the next few weeks is to drop that kg number a bit! |
| 2010-11-04 11:29 PM in reply to: #3195100 |
Extreme Veteran 516 Chicago | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 JorgeM - 2010-11-04 12:05 PM tbcoffee - 2010-11-04 12:01 PM rymac - 2010-11-01 8:35 AM tbcoffee - 2010-10-31 7:20 PM Just had a question about how I will schedule my workouts. I will try for MWF and sat or sun for the long ride. Sometimes I work double shifts on mondays and I can't do tuesdays since I've got class after work and am usually home late. So the weeks I have to do doubles I would have to: fri - day3 sat - long sun - day1 wed - day2 is the fri-sat-sun not good to do consecutive? Thanks
Just from experience last year, the Day 1 Workout is usually the most intense and is best done well rested. Do you recover well after your long ride(s)? I recover pretty well from long days, but less from intense workouts. Should I skip the long ride on those weeks? wanted to do them since I will be training for a HIM starting late December and thought I might benefit from them. This is normal, I do take a bit longer to recover from different sessions. What you can do and see how it goes and take care of all the details in between sessions. That can make a big difference, but if it happens to be too much, cut one of the intense sessions maybe day 3. Thanks Jorge! I'll see how it goes in the next few weeks. |
| 2010-11-05 12:43 AM in reply to: #3196202 |
Master 2372 | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Fit4Infinity - 2010-11-04 10:22 PM Looks like I'm the first back with 3MP results and I'm ready to be schooled on Power. I get .998 for that set of numbers. My personal challange for this winter is to double my W/kg number. The challange is to reach 5watts/Kg. Aren't we all! That would put you somewhere in the pro ranks. I hope you get there. |
| 2010-11-05 8:07 AM in reply to: #3196202 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Fit4Infinity - 2010-11-04 11:22 PM As expected, my wattage output for the 3min test was higher than the 20min. Is a sigma value of .9898 close enough to .99 to continue? When I entered the 3mp value (389) into the Spreadsheet, the CP value went down from 284 to 276? Whats up with that? Your CP drops because the much higher 3min value shows that you can sustain a much stronger effort over a shorter period of time vs a longer period. So the formula is figuring that over 60min your power will continue to drop. If you had a closer 20min and 3min wattage number, then your CP might actually go up - play with the numbers in the spreadsheet to see what it does. As for me, I managed 299 watts for the 3min test (complete sufferfest), vs 226 for the 20min test, giving me a CP of 222, and 3.19 watts/kg. The goal for the next 4 months is to increase that by 10% and get me up to a CP of 243 and 3.5 watts/kg. Edit - I've got no weight to lose, so the only way for me to gain any increases is through pure power. Edited by GoFaster 2010-11-05 8:09 AM |
| 2010-11-05 8:33 AM in reply to: #3196202 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Fit4Infinity - 2010-11-04 10:22 PM Looks like I'm the first back with 3MP results and I'm ready to be schooled on Power. Your results look fine, I get an r2 of .9968 It seems you have a better max aerobic capacity (VO2 max) than Critical Power (ability to sustain power over time) hence the big difference between your 3MP and 20MP. It basically means that while you can produce a lot of power in short periods of time your fitness need work over sustainable power as it drops your power curve as the duration increases. Hence the model predicts your CP at 276w and w/kg around 2.67 The good news is that you have a lot of room for improvement and you can bring your 20MP closer to your 3MP (the same thing I so for gofaster and Timmeh!) For reference, when I shape I've had my 20MP and 3MP within 35-40w of each other. You are going to do a lot of work on your 20MP and your CP which will come. I think for this plan you could see as much as a ~20% increase in your CP which would bring your w/kg around 3.35 |
| 2010-11-05 9:44 AM in reply to: #3195826 |
Elite 3913 far northern CA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 JorgeM - 2010-11-04 4:03 PM owl_girl - 2010-11-04 3:40 PM Jorge....I did a time trial last weekend. It is held twice a year on the same course. I plan on using your plan to get ready for the next one in March. I recorded my HR during the TT and ended up with an average HR of 171. I used your conversion so I can use the HR plan and did Prep week 1/Day 1. I felt like the average HR I arrived at will be just fine for your plan. Should I still do the first TT test on your plan? I will only be doing day 1 and day 3 for the duration of the plan. no, if you already did a hard effort to estimate your THR you can use that to get your training levels! No need to go through a suffer fest... until the next testing time Whew!!! I like your answer!!! Yes, it was a major hard effort!!! I got my age group record for the course. I'm hoping this program will help me break the overall women's course record. Thank you for your help! |
| 2010-11-05 10:01 AM in reply to: #3154535 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 In case anyone is interested or cares how their watts/kg stacks up, here's a link (keep in mind this is meant to compare cyclists, not triathletes): http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/power-profiling.aspx |
| 2010-11-05 11:06 AM in reply to: #3154535 |
| Veteran 420 | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 A little slow in posting my numbers but I completed the TT on Monday. 30' LT test 8.39 miles 16.8 mph 165 bpm Last year's ending test 8.21 miles 16.4 mph 165 bpm I started out way too hard and was begging for mercy after only 5 minutes. I gutted out the next 25 minutes hovering right on that ragged edge of losing my lunch. I was extremely happy when the buzzer went off! |
| 2010-11-05 11:19 AM in reply to: #3154535 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Week no. 2 is up: http://jorgepbmcoaching.blogspot.com/ For those trainnig with power make sure to read the notes on the Biking File v3.0 under the 20MP and 5MP sessions found here For those training with THR use RPE to guide this efforts as your heart rate will lag behind when you are pushing hard and still be up when you are resting spinning in between sets. Remember, each set is NOT an all out effort. Each set should be done at an intensity that you should be able to sustain *if* you were doing a 5 min all out effort. It should feel very challenging but not so intense you can't complete all sets. To everyone - the "fun" is just beginning, remember to adjust the trainign based on YOUR specific needs. Make sure to schedule some 'easy/steady' training the day before days 1 and 3 (when possible) or leave at least 24hrs in between intense sessions. Take care of The Details, doing so will make your recovery easier and most of your sessions will be of greater quality. Above it all, be consistent. This program is nothing special nor it is some sort of special super magic program; it follows simple common sense training based on simple physiology and training concepts that will allow you to succeed down the road *if* you do the work. If you have questions, post those here and I'll be happy to help! |
| 2010-11-05 11:20 AM in reply to: #3196765 |
Expert 913 Lost in the Evergreens | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Thanks for the link goFaster. Interesting article from Andrew Coggins. I just finished reading his Training and Racing with a Power Meter. Reading that article a second time, shortly after 3 and 20 min sufferfest, I have a new perspective on CP and W/kg. Jorge is right about how I ride, and his assessment of where I need work is exactly why I'm here. and he's never met before. Very cool. |
| 2010-11-05 12:45 PM in reply to: #3196765 |
Master 2372 | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 GoFaster - 2010-11-05 10:01 AM In case anyone is interested or cares how their watts/kg stacks up, here's a link (keep in mind this is meant to compare cyclists, not triathletes): http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/power-profiling.aspx I'd argue that the top end of that chart is too high, as we have seen in the last TdF. Schleck and Contador peaked at 6W/kg.  Funny enough if I grade myself on those charts I fall way low on the 5s and 1m efforts. But I never do sprints. Jorge, do we do any balls to the wall sprints in this program? Edited by sand101 2010-11-05 12:53 PM |
| 2010-11-05 1:08 PM in reply to: #3196976 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 JorgeM - 2010-11-05 1:19 PM Week no. 2 is up: http://jorgepbmcoaching.blogspot.com/ For those trainnig with power make sure to read the notes on the Biking File v3.0 under the 20MP and 5MP sessions found here Ok, after reading the notes I'm not clear on something. For the first session of week 2, the main set is 5x1' @120%. Is that 120% of CP or 120% of the average power from the 3' test this week? |
| 2010-11-05 1:59 PM in reply to: #3197268 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 sand101 - 2010-11-05 12:45 PM GoFaster - 2010-11-05 10:01 AM In case anyone is interested or cares how their watts/kg stacks up, here's a link (keep in mind this is meant to compare cyclists, not triathletes): http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/power-profiling.aspx I'd argue that the top end of that chart is too high, as we have seen in the last TdF. Schleck and Contador peaked at 6W/kg. Funny enough if I grade myself on those charts I fall way low on the 5s and 1m efforts. But I never do sprints. Jorge, do we do any balls to the wall sprints in this program? Not really; while high intensity interval training (HIIT) can be beneficial for neuro-muscular adaptations which in turn can make your pedaling more efficient, IMO, for a general program and for most of those following it, the greater gains will come from increasing your critical power. Triathlon is about sustainable power over long periods of time, anaerobic capacity is rarely of any value for us. |
| 2010-11-05 2:06 PM in reply to: #3197349 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 axteraa - 2010-11-05 1:08 PM JorgeM - 2010-11-05 1:19 PM Week no. 2 is up: http://jorgepbmcoaching.blogspot.com/ For those trainnig with power make sure to read the notes on the Biking File v3.0 under the 20MP and 5MP sessions found here Ok, after reading the notes I'm not clear on something. For the first session of week 2, the main set is 5x1' @120%. Is that 120% of CP or 120% of the average power from the 3' test this week? All percentages are always based CP hence if your CP is 250w, the sets @ 120% would be @ 300w. A variation suggested on the notes is to take your 3MP minus 2-3 %, hence if your 3MP is 310w you could do the sets at 300w. The key is to do a the sets roughly around your VO2 max which will equate to a 5 min max effort, and that falls around 120% of CP or 3MP minus 2-3%. Once yuo figure this out you do sets 1 to 4 at that wattage and the last one, let it 'rip' trying to average 2-4 watts higher. That last number will be your baseline for next week's session. Example: Jorge's 3MP is 310w and CP is 250w hence the wattage to target for the 5x1' sets will be around ~300w. I'll do sets 1 to 4 around ~300w and the last one I'll try to avg 302-304w. Next week all sets 1 to 4 will be around ~302-304w (depending what my actual avg was) and the last one I'll try to average 306-308w and so for. make sense? |
| 2010-11-05 2:16 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
| Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Forgive me if this was asked before...but does anyone know how to import a workout from the garmin training center that uses power (FTP%) targets? I wanted to save all of Jorge's workouts in my garmin for future use. I have a garmin 500, and I was able to import Jorge's workouts, but the only targets I could specify were speed, cadence, or HR. So I didn't use any targets...and tried to name each interval so I could tell what they were supposed to be. I know I can manually go into my 500 head unit and manually change the power targets, but it's a PITA without the GUI interface on my PC. Also, it only lets you use the predetermined power zones, or specific "custom" power levels (such as between 150 and 175) rather than between ranges of your %FTP. As my FTP changes...I don't want to have to change each power range...so having the targets based on %FTP would be ideal...I just need to change my FTP in the Garmin. So...anyone have any luck with this...maybe using another piece of software? I imagine the Joule 2.0 can do this...so I wonder if the cycleops power software can create workouts and send it to a garmin? Maybe worth a try. This isn't a must have...but it would be very cool. |
| 2010-11-05 3:25 PM in reply to: #3197480 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 JorgeM - 2010-11-05 4:06 PM axteraa - 2010-11-05 1:08 PM JorgeM - 2010-11-05 1:19 PM Week no. 2 is up: http://jorgepbmcoaching.blogspot.com/ For those trainnig with power make sure to read the notes on the Biking File v3.0 under the 20MP and 5MP sessions found here Ok, after reading the notes I'm not clear on something. For the first session of week 2, the main set is 5x1' @120%. Is that 120% of CP or 120% of the average power from the 3' test this week? All percentages are always based CP hence if your CP is 250w, the sets @ 120% would be @ 300w. A variation suggested on the notes is to take your 3MP minus 2-3 %, hence if your 3MP is 310w you could do the sets at 300w. The key is to do a the sets roughly around your VO2 max which will equate to a 5 min max effort, and that falls around 120% of CP or 3MP minus 2-3%. Once yuo figure this out you do sets 1 to 4 at that wattage and the last one, let it 'rip' trying to average 2-4 watts higher. That last number will be your baseline for next week's session. Example: Jorge's 3MP is 310w and CP is 250w hence the wattage to target for the 5x1' sets will be around ~300w. I'll do sets 1 to 4 around ~300w and the last one I'll try to avg 302-304w. Next week all sets 1 to 4 will be around ~302-304w (depending what my actual avg was) and the last one I'll try to average 306-308w and so for. make sense? Makes perfect sense, thanks for the explanation Jorge! |
| 2010-11-06 1:44 PM in reply to: #3195824 |
Master 2372 | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 JorgeM - 2010-11-04 6:01 PM sand101 - 2010-11-04 5:57 PM Dumb question. But then again 98% of what I ask falls into that category... I have paced my workouts here around this weekend (W2D3 tonight) because I have an actual TT race this weekend. Woohoo! 10 miles - should take ~25 minutes (no aero gear and I have no idea what the terrain is like). It could be a bit faster and could be a lot slower if it is hilly. What is the best way to handle this data - best 20 minutes, interpolate down to 20 minutes, use the full TT and calculate my CP with a bit different equation? Pretty excited about this weekend. I won the last TT by :07 (it was a weak field, what can I say) and I tend to enjoy these a bunch. What little TT action we have around here. If we had a bunch of them around I would be tempted to pull a Dave Luscan and train just for TTs for a year. Sadly, no way in Hades I'd be able to hit a 51:xx 40k like he did. As long as you ride all out for the entire TT use the entire time and just adjust the duration on the Critical Power excel sheet you can download on my blog. Any test between 3 to 30 min durations will work! Thanks Jorge. Did my TT today - 9.9 miles of cold, windy, puke-inducing goodness. Took longer than expected due to the wind (my speed sucked), but the power numbers were higher than expected. In better conditions I believe I could have eked out a bit more - but the power number already tells me what I have been using as a critical power is too low. |
| 2010-11-06 2:24 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
Champion 7495 Schwamalamadingdong! | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 i just finished week 1 day 3. Fun, fun, fun! |
| 2010-11-06 5:43 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Did the 3 min test this afternoon - avg 315w. I had no idea that 3 minutes could hurt so much! So based on a CP of 223w, my percentages are about 10-15w higher than I was guestimating for the first two prep weeks. Can't wait to dive into the sufferfest next week! |
| 2010-11-06 10:28 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
Veteran 147 SC | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 3' TT in the books for me. A 3' effort fits perfect into my style of riding---hard and short. Sadly I tried the same thing in the first 20' TT and had to hang on. Looking forward to busting out some gut busting workouts next week! |
| 2010-11-07 3:29 AM in reply to: #3154535 |
Master 8248 Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: Cycling Program and HM Training I noticed a couple of other posts about this topic, so thought I'd weigh in with my situation to see what people think. I'm training for a HM in early December. I'd really like to maintain fitness in the swim and bike as well as I'm planning several triathlons next year. Due to my location and work schedule (third world city with insane traffic, tropics, full-time plus!), I can only cycle on the roads early Sunday AM, and I need this time for running now. Thus, the trainer is the only cycling I'll get this month. I've tried doing 1-2 of the Prep Week workouts per week for a few weeks and find they just leave my legs dead for running. I wonder if I'm doing myself any favors trying to gut out these workouts now, or if I should be doing something less intense on the trainer, or not cycle at all and pick it up seriously after recovering from the HM. Does this program help running? Or negatively affect it due to fatigue/less energy for speedwork? If I didn't do the trainer workouts I would probably add another run (to get to 5 days/week), maybe some fartlek or short pickups as I do longer pickups/tempo on Saturdays. If it makes a difference, my goal for the HM is speed and placing in my AG as well as possible (around 1:35; closer to 1:30 would be ideal but maybe not in the cards), not just finishing. I have run many HM and the challenge for me isn't completing the distance but maintaining a decent pace. |
| 2010-11-07 2:02 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
| 48 | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Hi, I've got some questions for Jorge regarding doing "more". Obviously, first question is, "Should I do more?" I'm 100% bike focused, and have plenty of time. I'm wondering if more is better, or if it could result in overtraining, making it more difficult to recover and result in a lower quality workout later in the week? Next, if more is ok, how? Today, I did week 2 day 1 (power), tacked onto the end of a very easy 90' ride with a group of people. My 3' test resulted in a little over 40% more power than the spreadsheet calculated as my CP, so I chose to do the 1' intervals today at about 98% of the 3' power rather than 120% of the CP. The last few weren't easy, but I really had no problem holding power and adding a bit for the last interval as suggested. To me, this isn't surprising, since my 1' power is probably another 25% over my 3' power. So, if more is ok/better, should I: Do more than 5 intervals? Do longer intervals? Do the intervals at higher power? Or maybe take a different approach and add an additional workout at some point in the week? The other workouts shown for this week don't look terribly difficult. 4x10 @ 80 - 85%. Are we ramping up to tougher workouts such as 4x10 @ 100%? Scott |
| 2010-11-07 6:52 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
Extreme Veteran 402 CT | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 20min test done yesterday. well I knew my power would be way off post baby so just went with what I could hold for 20mins. But you would swear I was a rookie as I get on the bike and start warming up and 5mins in start to feel like it is taking more effort then supposed to, I think it is because I am out of bike shape. do the entire ride and my legs are burning. So I get off and bend down to take off shoes and notice a pile of tire on the ground. spin wheel and notice it doesn't even make a quarter rotation before stopping, I check and the left rear break is rubbing. but wait that is not what is causing the tire debris, no it is that the tire is actually rubbing on the frame. So yes I rode the entire ride and did the 20min test like that. great!!! so maybe I should have not been so hard on my self and checked the bike setup better before assuming I was just out of shape. plan to do week 1 workout #2 tomorrow and then week 1 workout #3 on Wed. |
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