HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH! (Page 11)

I've been wanting to test my lactate threshold for awhile now because I want to start using the HR zones to see if it will help me improve my running times.

Here's a background on me: I'm a diabetic (thought I would throw it out there because I think it might be affecting my resting HR) and my resting HR is generally about 85. To me, this seems awfully high and I want to get this down.

I recently got a Garmin for the HR and found that for a 6 mile run that I did, my avg HR was 171.

Tonight, I wanted to try to test my lactate threshold at the track, but the guy in charge wasn't there, so I couldn't ask him for help. I did a long warm up of 2 miles and then did some intervals....200 yard sprint then 200 yard walk recovery. Did that 4 times and each time I did it, I hit a high of 197 for the sprint. According to the Garmin, my avg HR for tonight's track workout was 162,  but that included periods of walking as well.

Anyway, I know this was not an accurate test of my lactate threshold, but I'm thinking since I went as high as 197, wouldn't that say that my LT is probably around that? That's awfully high, isn't it?

Also, when we say run TT....for that 30 minutes, how fast are we supposed to be actually running? I want to do this test myself, but find that I don't quite understand how to conduct the test.

Thanks. I've read through this thread before and I'm just too newbie to running to get it! Thanks!

Hi Sharon-

The max HR you saw at your track session has little to nothing to do with your LT. You should be able to maintain your LTHR for 40-60min depending on your training background and your level of psychological "toughness". When we talk about a TT (time trial) the goal is to go as hard as you possibly can for the given time or distance. So for the LT field test you want to run that 30 min as hard as you can without punking out before 30min. It's an exercise in pacing and the first couple times you try it you're likely to either fall a bit short or have a bit left in the tak=nk at the end. With experience you'll learn to feel out your pacing better and be able run or ride a more consistent time trial. I like to use an organized race 5k, 8k, or 10k to estimate LT since you likely have more motivation to go hard in a race vs. just running alon on the track. There certainly isn't any problem with going it on your own...just be prepared to push yourself to the limit for 30min...it will not be fun.

You might find some of the discussion in these threads interesting/informative:

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=48170

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=43786

Some bike computers have an extra sensor for your crankarm, and can give you a cadence readout. Perhaps the most popular is the Cateye Astrale 8:

 http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=16439&subcategory_ID=4110

You need a "gadget" with cadence.  Basically, you'll add another sensor to your cranks (more magnets like the ones on your wheel for the speed/distance) and it "counts" your pedal strokes.  There are some fairly inexpensive options out there, but it probably means getting rid of your current one.

Hi Daniel-

Don't think of what you've been doing as "wrong".  You were ay least making an honest effort to use HR as your guide instead of just going out and running hard every day.  As you've just discovered we can make some improvements though and get you training even smarter.  You should be reasonably fresh for the test but as long as you didn't do an unusual amount of activity today then it should be fine.  You LT can change over time as a result of training but you can't necessarily predict what direction it's going or make assumptions about your "fitness" based on a change.  Generally, you'd like yout LTHR to go up and approach your HR at VO2max.  It's a good idea to retest every 4-6 weeks, especially if you have never done the test before or are just starting to train.  The test can be a bit tricky if you've never done anything like it before.  Pacing is the key and it takes some practice to push at that perfect steady pace from start to finish.  I suggest starting out slightly slower than you think you should.  It's better to finish stronger than to peter out before you're done.  Another good method is to jump into a local 5k race.  Your average HR for 5k is roughly 105% of your LTHR and I've found this to be very similar to the 20min TT test.  Don't forget that you will have different LTHRs for running and biking so it's important to test on the bike as well.

Okay so buried deep inside of this post is MY issue....

I have been consistently running at a pshychotic average on my runs and bike... doesn't matter whether it's a race or not... a freind of mine and i were talking about this, and he thinks my HRM is broken. Any Idea how to adjust to this?....

 Examples...

Nov 20 - 9 mile run      -  Avg HR 183 - Max HR 200

Nov 9   - 6.75 mile run -  Avg HR 175 - Max HR 206

Nov 6   - 5.34 mile run -  Avg HR 185 - Max HR 209

Oct 21 - 3.99  mile run -  Avg HR 191 - Max HR 203

Oct 14 - Inside Run 22 min. - HR 177 - Max HR 213

My Bicylcing HR is about the same... for example.. when i did the Green Bay Duathlon (32.33 miles), my avg HR was 182, Max 199.

I have no idea where to put my training at this point in time...

Any suggestions?

There are 2 possible issues here.

1) your HRM isn't working properly.  In this case there isn't anything you can do aboutdata from past efforts...it's all suspect and shouldn't be trusted.  buy a new HRM and start fresh.

2)  Your HRM is working just fine...you simply go hard all the time.  But then again, looking at your HRmax from the examples you provided, it looks like you might just have a relatively high HR compared to most folks.  There is no reason why your 200+ HRmax couldn't be completely accurate, in which case an average of 175 or even 185 over 4-6 miles isn't totally out of line...although still to hard for your regular base training.

First order of business is to find out if your HRM is working properly.  You could borrow a HRM from a friend and wear both, then compare them.  If they are both telling you the same thing then you know yours is fine.  Next step would be to do a proper LT field test using the protocol described in this thread.  That will give you a good estimate of yout LTHR that we would then use to work out your training zones. 

Wow - what a thread!

I'm planning to do my test on a mildly curvy 8/10 mile paved trail which has two separate inclines of about 10-15 feet over 100+ yards and one long decline of 20-30 feet.  I'm hesitant to run on an actual track since I recently had a case of ITBS.  I'm now back up to running 3-4 miles in 25-35 mins with no sensation/pain whatsoever, so I think I can do the test with little or no issue.  I'm concerned that if I do it on a track I may aggravate my ITB.

Any advice?

BTW, thank you Mike and thanks to everyone who participates in the world of BT.

1.  Your aim should be to run with good form all the time.  If your form deteriorates, you will be wasting energy that could be helping you to go faster.  So speed & form are not mutually exclusive.  (This is not to say that my own form doesn't deteriorate towards the end of a hard run--but the goal is to hold it.)

2. I'm not up on those 2 models, sorry.

I agree with JK - try to pick a pace you CAN hold. You may want to hold back a tad and be able to really ramp it up the last 20 minutes. It takes most people a few attempts to get this right.

Polar - depends on what you are looking for? I rep for Polar so if you want to order something shoot me an email off line. have you checked out the Polar site?

Hi Rochelle-

Yes, you can do both the run and bike tests on a treadmill/trainer but I'd suggest you try to take your testing outside if at all possible...a track would be fine for the run.  Training inside  is a good bit different from being outside on the open roads.  Also, the TM requires you to manually adjust the speed/intensity which isn't the same as pushing and holding a hard pace outside.  If you have no choice then the TM is better than nothing but I would treat that as preliminary data and try to find a local 5K or 8K (whichever would be closest to a 30min max effort for you) race that you can jump into. 

What HRM model do you have?  The lap feature should let you record data for specific intervals ("laps" whenever you push the LAP button.  That will let you record your HRavg for the specific 20min segment of your TT.   

It sounds like you are very fit. Remember that HR is like shoe size. Everyone is different. Hopefully you have read this thread and understand HR training a little more.

Cheers,

188 may be higher than 'average" but it isn't unreasonable considering you saw a max of 197, which is also up there but likely totally normal for you.  It's important to keep in mind that your HRmax and the absolute value of your LTHR really say nothing about your fitness by themselves.  You definitely can't compare from person to person and even comparing your own results from test to test can be tricky.  Just because your LTHR went up or down doesn't necessarily tell you how your fitness changed.  So long as you do the test as prescribed and repeat it under similar conditions I wouldn't worry much about how the number changes...just accept it for what it is, calculate your zones and train by them.