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Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. (Page 15)
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 2014-01-07 3:08 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran  5722   |  Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.Originally posted by RandyP Looks like I've got some work to do! That's excellent for a first test. As Neil mentioned, the people first starting off training with power, FTP, etc will improve the most. How high have you ever seen your HR go on the bike ? Edited by marcag 2014-01-07 3:08 PM |
| 2014-01-07 3:22 PM in reply to: marcag |
92 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Well, here's my example of what not to do. LOL Started off way too strong and did the hold on for dear life just to salvage a number. Even with the challenge I was still able to hold it pretty good for the last 3.5 minutes and came out to 271 Watts for the best 5 min average. I think based on this test I will shoot for around 210 Watts on the 20 min test and see if I can increase a little every 5 min. Would you say that is a good plan? Ron (Power graph.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Power graph.jpg (60KB - 10 downloads) |
| 2014-01-07 3:49 PM in reply to: WaterRat |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by WaterRat I think based on this test I will shoot for around 210 Watts on the 20 min test and see if I can increase a little every 5 min. Would you say that is a good plan? I suspect that is a little low. 210 is 77% of your 5' 271. I suspect if you start at 220 you will quickly see you can go higher and you may be over 230 average when all said and done. But it depends very much on your endurance. |
| 2014-01-07 3:58 PM in reply to: marcag |
50 , Washington | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. How high have you ever seen your HR go on the bike ? Interesting you should ask. I'm not sure I have a straight answer. For a long time I didn't wear a HR monitor because they did seem to work for me. It would freeze on a HR number, jump all over the place, etc. etc. I tried water/gel and couldn't get the darn thing to work even after my wife tested it. So it got dumped in a drawer. As it turned out, it wasn't the HR monitor but me. With my problem now corrected I'm really excited to get back into the sport as my last tri was 2008 (Oly) and last HIM was 2006. I'm thankful I can be active again and realize not everyone can. |
To make a long story short, heart surgery corrected the problem. In the past I could get the HR in the 200's running but not any more.| 2014-01-07 4:06 PM in reply to: ratherbeswimming |
Elite 3779  Ontario | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by ratherbeswimming Originally posted by reecealan Originally posted by GoFaster Thanks Neil/others for your help and kind words. I'm pretty happy with the numbers especially since I've only logged 16 hours on the bike since the end of September. My W/kg for the 5 min. test was 4.1 so I'm pretty close to CAT 3 caliber according to that power profiling excel file (maybe I'll do a road race some day!). If I use my Garmin HR monitor (if I can find it, it came with my 305) will that be picked up by the ANT+ USB? Right now GC is getting data from the GSC Speed/Cadence sensor via the ANT+ USB stick. I have the FR 305 but since I have the data on GC I haven't been using the 305. I guess I could run the FR305 then upload the workout after. Will the ANT+ USB pick up HR from the HR strap or does it need to route through the FR305? I guess I can read up on this but hoping I might get a quick/easy suggestion? Originally posted by reecealan Since I am using VP through GC I don't have any Garmin Connect links or anything like that. Below are the results from my first workout with the 5 min. test. During that test I averaged 363 Watts. I started in the 340 Watt range then with a minute or so left, picked it up a bit to 380-390. I wasn't exactly sure what to do after the test, the workout states "spin" so I just took it easy after that. Next test I'll go a little harder to get an idea how I feel afterwards. I compared the GC data to the published KK Road Machine power curve, they seem to be in line. I was pretty taxed at the end of the test, not sure how much longer I could have stayed up there, possibly for 10-20 seconds. I've never payed attention to cadence while riding outside so I don't know if I should pay any attention to it. I guess when I start riding outdoors again I'll take a look since I have the GSC-10 now. The hard part now is deciding what to start at for the 20' test. Ignore the CP and Zones, Zones are default GC values I think I guessed at CP. Very nice test result. You're all crushing the numbers! As for the cadence question, I'd say your cadence is really quite low in comparison to what many people would average. But cadence is also very individual, and the sweet spot is going to vary from person to person. That said, now that you have this piece of data available to you you can really play around with how different cadences affect you and your power - i.e. putting out the same watts at 80 rpm vs 70 vs 90. I noticed that you don't have any HR data, but I'm not sure if that's because you don't use/have one. When playing with different cadences I've found that an HR strap is really nice because it allows you to really quantify how your body is responding to different efforts (even though the same wattage), and lets you learn how your body responds to efforts over a period of time - i.e longer intervals, multiple intervals at the same wattage. The other benefit is that it may allow you a metric you can use for outdoor riding (allowing some variability), as you'll have a very firm idea of how your HR matches up against your indoor wattage. Just my 2 cents. It will pick up your ANT+ HR monitor I can't remember if the 305 had an Ant+ strap - used to have one, but no longer do. Even if it doesn't pair with GC, you can geek out a little more and ride with the 305. Just hit lap for your intervals, and then you can put the data in Garmin Connect. It won't be as clean as having it all in one place, but it will give a very clean idea of what your HR was doing during the intervals, and throughout the progression of testing - and like I said, you can ride with it once outdoors as a metric (if wanted).
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| 2014-01-07 4:52 PM in reply to: GoFaster |
Master 3888 Overland Park, KS | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by GoFaster I can't remember if the 305 had an Ant+ strap - used to have one, but no longer do. Even if it doesn't pair with GC, you can geek out a little more and ride with the 305. Just hit lap for your intervals, and then you can put the data in Garmin Connect. It won't be as clean as having it all in one place, but it will give a very clean idea of what your HR was doing during the intervals, and throughout the progression of testing - and like I said, you can ride with it once outdoors as a metric (if wanted).
Cool, if I can find my HR strap I'll wear it during the 20' test. It will be interesting to see what my HR actually is during those 20' but since I have no idea what my HR zones are it won't mean much at the time. But looking at power, cadence, HR together could be quite fun and hopefully educational. |
| 2014-01-07 5:07 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by reecealan Originally posted by GoFaster I can't remember if the 305 had an Ant+ strap - used to have one, but no longer do. Even if it doesn't pair with GC, you can geek out a little more and ride with the 305. Just hit lap for your intervals, and then you can put the data in Garmin Connect. It won't be as clean as having it all in one place, but it will give a very clean idea of what your HR was doing during the intervals, and throughout the progression of testing - and like I said, you can ride with it once outdoors as a metric (if wanted).
Cool, if I can find my HR strap I'll wear it during the 20' test. It will be interesting to see what my HR actually is during those 20' but since I have no idea what my HR zones are it won't mean much at the time. But looking at power, cadence, HR together could be quite fun and hopefully educational. For the people using VP getting a feel for your HR at various efforts will serve you well when you get on the road. You will get a feel for your LTHR, your HR at Tempo, Z2..... Edited by marcag 2014-01-07 5:08 PM |
| 2014-01-07 5:14 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. We are getting very few results from the female representation in the group. Yes, we know they are mostly on the injured list, but if this guy can do this, you gals can test ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWCDEAYn8rQ I am of course kidding, we prefer you don't show us up with the low kg ratios :-) Jaime, how's the knee ? Kim ? Any good news on the diagnosis ? Karen ? Is the PT working ? Is the arm "better" ? Edited by marcag 2014-01-07 5:18 PM |
| 2014-01-07 6:15 PM in reply to: marcag |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by trisuppo http://connect.garmin.com/activity/425629795 Not a perfect test...went out a bit too strong but came back in the last minute. It's been about a year since I did any kind of cycling assessment. Promptly went out after and shoveled the driveway and squeezed in an easy run this afternoon. Need to rest the legs up for the 20' test! Nice. Yes you went out a little hard. My projection is you will go out at that pace next time and hold it. How high is your normal max HR ? I am always curious as to how close people come to it during this test. I'm unsure where my max hr currently sits. Back in maybe 2008 in a spin class I got up to around 204 during a sprint at the end of a interval. When I was a teenager I used to egg up to the 215 level or so on the trainer. I think my LTHR is around 170 to 175. |
| 2014-01-07 6:41 PM in reply to: marcag |
Veteran 441 Maine | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Got mine done tonight. Felt as though I paced it well. My primary goal on doing the 5 min test the first time was not blowing up. http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/603933-BT-5-minute-test |
| 2014-01-07 7:21 PM in reply to: marcag |
Pro 4482 NJ | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag We are getting very few results from the female representation in the group. Yes, we know they are mostly on the injured list, but if this guy can do this, you gals can test ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWCDEAYn8rQI am of course kidding, we prefer you don't show us up with the low kg ratios :-) Jaime, how's the knee ? Kim ? Any good news on the diagnosis ? Karen ? Is the PT working ? Is the arm "better" ? just watched the video...wow that is humbling. will quit whining about only having use of my left now. i'm now hoping to test next week. saw my ortho yesterday and he took me out of the 5 lb metal contraption and into a fiberglass cast. the fx wasnt compound but radius was completely displaced so he's being cautious. so far, the reduction appears to have held. if everything stays in place for one more week i'm hoping to get on the bike. doc was not willing to even discuss it until he's convinced zero chance of plate/screws. i see him again next week for a new cast as i still have a lot of swelling. i am reading along the thread though and am impressed by the numbers you guys are putting up. very nice. question...i havent been back on gc since i initially installed and did a couple rides which i downloaded from ErgDB. are the tests in that database now or do i need to take what shane posted and create them? or have i totally lost the flow of how gc functions? will go back and reread thread tomorrow to see if i missed that. wont be offended by any answer. |
| 2014-01-07 7:57 PM in reply to: reecealan |
| Oakville | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Cool, if I can find my HR strap I'll wear it during the 20' test. It will be interesting to see what my HR actually is during those 20' but since I have no idea what my HR zones are it won't mean much at the time. But looking at power, cadence, HR together could be quite fun and hopefully educational. FYI I am using the 305 HR monitor which does pair with GC. You will likely have to repair the GSC speed/cadence sensor as I believe that you must pair all devices at the same time. At least I couldn't find a way to add my HR monitor later. |
| 2014-01-07 9:25 PM in reply to: Scott71 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Anyone know where I can find instructions on how to play a video in GC? Does it have to be a sufferfest video or can you use any video? |
| 2014-01-07 10:10 PM in reply to: marcag |
Master 2151 Johns Creek, Georgia | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag We are getting very few results from the female representation in the group. Yes, we know they are mostly on the injured list, but if this guy can do this, you gals can test ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWCDEAYn8rQI am of course kidding, we prefer you don't show us up with the low kg ratios :-) Jaime, how's the knee ? Kim ? Any good news on the diagnosis ? Karen ? Is the PT working ? Is the arm "better" ? I'm still here, following everyone's posts. But having a pity party about my injury. The replacement cap arrived yesterday but I have not tried it yet.. I saw the ortho this morning and good news is no surgery, and no dislocation. But bad news is it's still a fracture that will take a while to heal. She gave me a new brace/sling contraption that is HUGE! I have to wear it all the time (except to shower) for probably 6 weeks. Shoulder still hurts with any slight movement. I'm supposed to start physical therapy this week (really?). And just as Shane mentionerd, range of motion may be an issue with having to keep my arm in one place for so long. Sigh....Boulder is not looking good. That said, I don't know when I'll be able to test. I'm hoping I can do some easy riding soon. Or any form of exercise. I get very cranky when I can't bike or run. |
| 2014-01-07 10:15 PM in reply to: Scott71 |
| Oakville | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. OK, finished the 20 minute test tonight. That was tough!! Average power for the 20 minute test was 235 watts and average power for the 5 minute test from a few days ago was 246 watts. I expected to be at around 220 for the 20 minute test, but was able to push the higher watts for the full 20 minutes. I used the same testing protocol for both rides as far as tire PSI and flywheel tension (I used Marc's recommendation of clamping the flywheel and then inflating to 100 psi), so I guess I took it a lttle too easy for the 5 minute test. Based on the CP estimator, my critical power is 231 watts. Not sure what to do with the HR data, but HR peaked at 176 for the 5 minute test and 171 for the 20 minute test (couldn't get GC to link my HR monitor for the 20 minute test, so I used my 305). I believe that my LTHR is about 162 for the bike based on a field test last year, but I haven't retested. All of my rides on TrainerRoad have been at an FTP of 210, so 231 is going to be rough! Scott Attachments ---------------- 20MinTest - Jan 07 14.csv (126KB - 8 downloads) 5MinTest - Jan 05 14.csv (99KB - 6 downloads) |
| 2014-01-08 6:59 AM in reply to: Scott71 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Well done. GC is showing you probably had more in you for the 5' or you are one of those people that do better on the longer tests. Shane will probably comment on this a little later. Maybe you are one of these people that need to raise your "roof". Attaching your files like that is really useful. If people want to do that, it's great, sometimes you can just drop them in GC and look at stuff |
| 2014-01-08 7:00 AM in reply to: 0 |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. argh. Kaboom. I slept about 5 hours, had a cup of coffee and realized my garage where I usually ride was about 10 degrees because of the big freeze. No worries, I'll just setup in one of the bedrooms....Nothing new on race day...we should add nothing new on test day. It got Africa hot in there, HR skyrocketed and was riding around 175bpms after 10 minutes (Threshold HR is closer to 170). Didn't have proper cooling, thought I might be able to tough it out and almost threw up and pulled the plug a little after 14 minutes at 330 watts. When I plug in: 5' = 376 15' = 330 I get CP = 307 Which sounds about right. I was riding workouts at 310 for awhile and GC had my curve at 308. I had ridden a random Sufferfest workout and did the Hunted and was around 320 watts for the 20' climb a couple months ago not during a test but just a regular workout. To be conservative a couple weeks ago I notched it down to 290 in trainerroad and did some Sufferfest vids and one of Jorge's workouts and it all seemed very doable (which for Sufferfest is a little too easy I think). Based on this, what do you guys think? Should I just use that number or 300 or 310 or what? 290 seems a little light. ps. My wife came in and said why is it so hot in here? Meanwhile the rest of my house is 65 degrees. Edited by JAYCT 2014-01-08 7:01 AM |
| 2014-01-08 7:00 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Here is the file for workout #3 this week. Later, I will try putting it in Ergdb as well and will let you know when I did If the file doesn't work for you, let me know, maybe some small kinks to work out It is important you set your new CP in GC for this workout to be correct, since it works of % of CP. To set a new CP go int Tools->Options->Athlete Select the Power tab Set a date you want it to be effective from "Say Jan 7 2014", set the CP and press + Edited by marcag 2014-01-08 7:03 AM Attachments ---------------- BTWK1WO3.mrc (0KB - 24 downloads) |
| 2014-01-08 7:09 AM in reply to: marcag |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag Well done. GC is showing you probably had more in you for the 5' or you are one of those people that do better on the longer tests. Shane will probably comment on this a little later. Maybe you are one of these people that need to raise your "roof". Attaching your files like that is really useful. If people want to do that, it's great, sometimes you can just drop them in GC and look at stuff As Marc has said, there is a possiblity that you do better on the longer test than the shorter test and if that's the case, work with short, intense intervals will be very valulable as threshold power (FTP) will always be lower than power at VO2max. So, if the 5 minute test is valid, you will benefit from raising power at VO2max so that you can "pull up" FTP by creating more space between power at VO2max and threshold. Dr. Phil Skiba uses a house analogy where threshold is your celing and VO2max is your roof. If you have lots of attic space, you can push your ceiling higher without worrying about the roof but as your ceiling gets closer to your roof, you get to the point where you cannot raise the ceiling without raising the roof. The other possibility will be that you could have gone harder in the short test and this will usually become obvious during the VO2max sets in subsequent weeks of training as we will be able to see how hard you can go during these short intervals. If you are able to put out much more power than your test, then it is likely when we test next you will have a much better idea of what hard is and therefore be able to ride at a higher power. Shane |
| 2014-01-08 7:11 AM in reply to: JAYCT |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by JAYCT Based on this, what do you guys think? Should I just use that number or 300 or 310 or what? 290 seems a little light. I would go with either 305 or 310 and then see how things go with the third workout this week and next week's workouts. If they are killing you, then we can scale back a little but I suspect that since you gave a hard effort on the 14:xx part of the test, 305W is probably a pretty good estimate to guide your training going forward. Shane |
| 2014-01-08 7:48 AM in reply to: marcag |
Pro 4482 NJ | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag Here is the file for workout #3 this week. Later, I will try putting it in Ergdb as well and will let you know when I did If the file doesn't work for you, let me know, maybe some small kinks to work out It is important you set your new CP in GC for this workout to be correct, since it works of % of CP. To set a new CP go int Tools->Options->Athlete Select the Power tab Set a date you want it to be effective from "Say Jan 7 2014", set the CP and press + marc, no "options" under "tools" but there is a critical power estimatot tab that looks like i can enter needed info once i do 5" and 20" test. on a mac using vp. am i missing something? |
| 2014-01-08 8:13 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by JAYCT Based on this, what do you guys think? Should I just use that number or 300 or 310 or what? 290 seems a little light. I would go with either 305 or 310 and then see how things go with the third workout this week and next week's workouts. If they are killing you, then we can scale back a little but I suspect that since you gave a hard effort on the 14:xx part of the test, 305W is probably a pretty good estimate to guide your training going forward. Shane Thanks Shane, I'll try 305. Was thinking 300 too, because I probably had a few more watts on the 5' to give so curve may be a tad steeper. I know 310 hurt a lot on the Sufferfest videos and I was sort of 50/50 of making it through them or blowing up. I think it is all pretty close and within about a 1.5% margin of error. It is just amazing when you tack on those extra 5-10 watts, the pain seems exponential. 5 watts seems so innocent. |
| 2014-01-08 8:15 AM in reply to: JAYCT |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by JAYCT Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by JAYCT Based on this, what do you guys think? Should I just use that number or 300 or 310 or what? 290 seems a little light. I would go with either 305 or 310 and then see how things go with the third workout this week and next week's workouts. If they are killing you, then we can scale back a little but I suspect that since you gave a hard effort on the 14:xx part of the test, 305W is probably a pretty good estimate to guide your training going forward. Shane Thanks Shane, I'll try 305. Was thinking 300 too, because I probably had a few more watts on the 5' to give so curve may be a tad steeper. I know 310 hurt a lot on the Sufferfest videos and I was sort of 50/50 of making it through them or blowing up. I think it is all pretty close and within about a 1.5% margin of error. It is just amazing when you tack on those extra 5-10 watts, the pain seems exponential. 5 watts seems so innocent. How long were the sufferfest intervals? |
| 2014-01-08 8:35 AM in reply to: marcag |
Pro 6191 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag We are getting very few results from the female representation in the group. Yes, we know they are mostly on the injured list, but if this guy can do this, you gals can test ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWCDEAYn8rQI am of course kidding, we prefer you don't show us up with the low kg ratios :-) Jaime, how's the knee ? Kim ? Any good news on the diagnosis ? Karen ? Is the PT working ? Is the arm "better" ? Testing tomorrow! I'm doing my coach's FTP test: Warmup 20 min Endurance Pace Main Set 3x1 min(1 min RI) Fast pedaling, 100RPM 5 min Easy riding 5 min All out effort 10 min Easy riding 20 min Time trial Cooldown 10-15 min Easy riding |
| 2014-01-08 8:56 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
| Oakville | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by marcag Well done. GC is showing you probably had more in you for the 5' or you are one of those people that do better on the longer tests. Shane will probably comment on this a little later. Maybe you are one of these people that need to raise your "roof". Attaching your files like that is really useful. If people want to do that, it's great, sometimes you can just drop them in GC and look at stuff As Marc has said, there is a possiblity that you do better on the longer test than the shorter test and if that's the case, work with short, intense intervals will be very valulable as threshold power (FTP) will always be lower than power at VO2max. So, if the 5 minute test is valid, you will benefit from raising power at VO2max so that you can "pull up" FTP by creating more space between power at VO2max and threshold. Dr. Phil Skiba uses a house analogy where threshold is your celing and VO2max is your roof. If you have lots of attic space, you can push your ceiling higher without worrying about the roof but as your ceiling gets closer to your roof, you get to the point where you cannot raise the ceiling without raising the roof. The other possibility will be that you could have gone harder in the short test and this will usually become obvious during the VO2max sets in subsequent weeks of training as we will be able to see how hard you can go during these short intervals. If you are able to put out much more power than your test, then it is likely when we test next you will have a much better idea of what hard is and therefore be able to ride at a higher power. Shane Marc/Shane - thanks for this. When you manipulate the numbers in the CP estimator, I see that as power increases for the 5 minute test overall CP will actually go down (Marc you had mentioned this before, but I didn't quite get it). I think I will go with a CP of 230 for the first few rides and see how it feels. One question about HR - I have never calculated my max heart rate. Can you determine maximum heart rate using LTHR or are the two totally unrelated? Just curious if 176 bpm is close to my maximum if my LTHR for the bike is 162. |
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