SBR Utopia - OPEN (Page 165)

I really like this article on race weight

http://triathlon.competitor.com/2013/05/nutrition/chris-mccormack-on-the-triathlete-weight-debate_74945

Lighter does not always mean faster.

Good read. The article states that finding "ideal" race weight is a process of trial and error and you will know when you're there by "feel" during training (my summary). I'd be interested in hearing from some of you on how you know when you're at race weight vs when you've gotten too lean. 

Great read...thanks for posting. I do have some thoughts on this topic because I have been experimenting a bit over the past couple of years to find a good weight for me.

When I got into Triathlon, I was the skinny runner type. I'd been running since age 8 and was naturally thin, even after each of my pregnancies, I went right back to skinny. My body changed a lot when I added swimming and cycling to the mix. I finally got muscles. I also found that I gain muscle pretty quick and stayed very lean. I lost a lot of weight, and muscle when training for IM and got down to that weight where your non-athlete friends start to worry about you. I learned a lot during that time, and Chris touches on it in this article....it's not healthy to stay at that low weight for too long. For females, there's hormonal issues, risk of stress fractures etc. I also caught every cold that was going around and had trouble sleeping. Once I put on some weight, everything regulated but I still had this nagging idea that I needed to get back down to that "racing weight" again. I'd never paid much attention to my weight at any point in my life but I suddenly was aware of it. I was of the thought that leaner=faster. However, along came the bike crash, knee surgery and a long rehab. I put on some more weight and when I started up again, I was mostly swimming and cycling, which for me meant adding muscle mass. I had to let go of the idea that skinny means fast. I have spent the past year or so on my bike. My body has changed and that took some getting used to. I have bigger quads than most guys I know! 

I started to think of nutrition/training/body composition in terms of health rather than a number on the scale. By health I mean sleeping well, feeling energized, avoiding illness, having my hormones in balance, being able to meet my training goals, racing well. I'm at a much higher weight than I used to be but it's not affecting my performance. I have a few races coming up and I will be interested to see if the extra weight hinders me too much. I do know that the measures I would have to go to in order to lose the weight quickly (feeling hungry, weak, getting sick) are not worth it.

It's probably hard. My weight has come down a little faster recently and I do feel like I am having more trouble hitting some power levels. The danger is to blame it on weight if it's something else.

I guess if weight is coming down, and you feel some symptoms, maybe hold off on losing further weight until you feel you are back to normal.

But I do believe we make too much of a deal about weight.

this is a great post

And when people obsess about weight loss, they often make bad food choices in training and compound the problem

My father was a pretty good marathon runner (2:45 at the age of 55). His normal weight was 150. He dropped down to 139 and slowed down. Put back the weight and came to normal.

One day I asked him what his ideal weight was. When he said 150, I said "ok, I need to get to 150" since we are the same height. He said I was crazy. I have much larger shoulders, torso, back and at 150 I would be like him at 135 and perform poorly.

You know how the people say "you need to be lower on the aerobars", yet it saves you 2watts and makes you uncomfortable, well the same goes for weight. 5lbs may gain you a few seconds on a flat course and take away the efficiency of your training and power during racing.

That doesn't mean sit up and get fat. But there are diminishing returns at one point

That is key IMO.  People chase a random number on the scale and don't really have any valid context around that number often. 

I have the opposite issue of many - I struggle to keep the weight on.  I raced my HIM at 147lbs last year, that's on a 6' frame.  During the winter, and mountains of chocolate and junk I jumped to a whopping 155lbs.  I'm currently at 152lbs, and know that I'll liklely drop a bit once training ramps up more.  I don't really stop eating throughout the day, but just seem to burn it off.  It would be nice to keep a little more weight on.  Funny thing is, I rarely get sick, and for the most part seem to have a decent energy level.  Although my last physical showed I'm anemic.

whoops.....

I will try and dig it up when I get home, but this reminds me of a study I read about a number of years ago that compared the race weight of the top 20 finishers (both men and women) from a number of both Ironman races as well as Olympic distance races. On average the IM top men weighed about 2.5% more than the Olympic racers (the women were just a little less). IIRC, the study lumped everyone together to get the averages, but it also made a point to compare individuals where they had data for both race types. Bile there were a couple of outliers, in general that number held true for the same individual racing different distances, which lends support to Macca's point that "race weight" is relative to the distance. I also like how he goes even further to point out that it is dependent on the time of the season as well. For the last 3 years my coach has certainly beat me over the head about this.

I have only on e really crashed my weight off with the intention of having a better "race weight." I went from 153 to 149 fairly quickly and my race results suffered pretty quickly also. I also got sick a couple of times in there - I just always felt run down. When I put just a few pounds back on all was right with the world - and those were pounds of fat, not muscle. While I do monitor weight on a daily basis - it is not something I obsess over anymore. I basically watch it to make sure it is trending as it should (up or down depending the season) and don't chase a number.

To the serious question.  Some may know I raced for many years at the 230-ish range.  Think I got to 220 maybe for IMAZ 2008.  Raced as high as 245.  Last season got down to 205.   This season down to 185.  I am 6'2" and built fairly broad. 

As a point of reference, I was always much taller than my peers, I was 6' in 6th grade. I know from a medical history form my mom saved (she saves everything) for freshman year hi school I was 176. SO I've always been "the big guy," even if it wasn't fat. Which it ultiamately turned out to be, once I got out of grad school and gained a lot of weight, to at least 275.

I am told by various sources, including my PT who is a little more objective than my wife, that this is a good weight for me.  It's hard when you've been big.. ok fat...  like me and lose a lot of weight, to settle into an equilibrium and be OK with a certain weight, but I am finding my way thru that process.  It's so exciting to see a new number on the scale every day, and I wonder "hmmm, well how low could I get?"   Have to say it was a thrill to see 179 on the scale after a particularly long and hard ride. 

Add to this reading stories of guys my height racing at 160 or so.  I still instinctively order XL race shirts when registering.  It's hard to get out of the mental space of being that guy.  In other words, in my head I am still fat.

So there has always been a focus on weight with me, but not necessarily in a healthy sense.  OK, this was a bit more of a ramble than a discussion of the question, but really just to say I have no frame of reference yet for what is a healthy weight.  I bought Racing Weight by Fitzgerald, but haven't yet really read it.  I also have to admit to being terrified of goig "back there," which I very easily could do if left to my own (de)vices. 

Interesting article and discussion on weight.  I don't think I am at my optimal race weight yet.  I do have a pretty bulky build...probably more suited to a minature football player since I'm only 5'6".  I have pretty broad shoulders, and quads like a linebacker...but 150 is still nowhere near lean for me.  I just need to look at the jiggle still on my stomach.

That said, I do feel the difference in performance when I lose weight too quickly.  I have lost about 8 pounds this year, but have tried to do it slowly.  When I see big losses over the course of a couple of days, my peformance tends to suffer afterwards.

SBR Utopians!!!

I do plan to have this group continue on as is, but I do not plan to submit the actual "application" to Ron until the end of the sign up process.  It seems that this group is quite popular among lurkers, which is fine, but I want to give the other mentors a chance to have their groups fill up who can provide more personalized attention.

I just don't want a newbie signing up for this group and getting completely lost in Rusty's endless power discussions when they could have signed up for a more appropriate group.  If that newbie still wants to join our discussion afterwards...the door is always open.

Hope that makes sense and is okay with everyone.

Ya, ya. Blame Rusty. :P Haha. 

I'm fine with that plan. 

Sounds good!

It is an interesting discussion.  I have no idea if I'm at my optimal race weight, but I do get concerned when there are guys who are only ~30 pounds heavier than I am....then I start thinking that I should lose some weight!

My lowest weight I've ever been at is only a few pounds less than what I weigh now, but that happened at inactive times (like right after my accident and right after surgery).  During those times, I wasn't eating enough to sustain an active lifestyle, so I feel like if I were to drop down there again, my performance would probably suffer.

Plus, I like certain foods (okay, I admit....it's fresh ground peanut butter....that's my weakness!) too much to give up and drop a couple pounds

Agreed -- this is (consistently) about the most useful thread on all of BT, imo....even if some of the power talk goes right over my head!

LT run test today. Got my last 20min avg at 171. Seems sort of high, but I will take it? lol. Makes sense though when I think about it though. I ran the HM during the Cali 70.3 at avg 164-166. Will see what coach says, bike LT testing on the weekend. 

Interesting article on race weight. Im definitely above my ideal race weight--whatever that ends up being--I don't know. I agree that most people arbitrarily select a weight that seems low enough that will make them faster and that it isn't always true and has added detrimental effects. I've mainly seen it in female friends who are always a low body weight or have acheived low body weight through what I consider unhealthy means and end up fatigued, sick all the time or in one case ended up with a metatarsal stress fracture. Def not all attributable to low body weight but it didn't help prevention wise. Growing up as a swimmer we never had the same stress on lowering body weight as there was in cycling and running so it is interesting to be in a sport where it does matter--5lbs isn't such a big deal in the water...but on land...it seems to make a huge difference. 

phhhhhbbbt. I am following in .Fred's footsteps and ditching power: it is soooooooo last year.

Instead I just installed a set of strain gauges into the ends of my aerobars to create a pair rudimentary dynamometers and I am training strictly by left/right grip strength for the rest of the season. Right now I am trying to decide what secondary metric makes the most sense to bracket it against: barometric pressure or urine salinity? Any of you docs (or soon to be) have a line on a good digital refractometer that is compact enough to fit on a bike? In addition to being small in size it should also cost less than $8500.00 as my preliminary market research shows that is the upper limit that most triathletes are willing to pay for such an advanced training device.

Rusty, Rusty, Rusty. I think you need to take up an extra hobby.

Chris, it takes the mind a long time to catch up to the body when you lose weight.  I went through it (probably still am in a sense) and I know many others who went through the same.  Your thoughts are completely normal IMO, and because of that I think you need to trust those who know you and can really judge you