Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 (Page 17)

Thanks Jorge - I kind of guessed it to be this.  I haven't got previous long rides to compare to, so part of the trainer time this winter will be spending longer periods of time in the saddle.  I'll ride certain portions of the race course at different intensities and see how I feel. 

Did the 20min test this morning - and oh, did it hurt again.  I saw some of the other posts above that said they pushed it home at the end, but I was admittedly just hanging on.  Since I did the test a week or so ago and had preset the watts at 270, this time I just rode based on slope and used the 270 as a benchmark.  I would fluctuate between the 260's and 270's, so each time I started to let up I'd look at the numbers and try to keep going.  It is absolutely amazing how slowly a minute really lasts.

Didn't get a chance to analyse the data after the ride, but I'll do this when I get home tonight.  Hope everyone else had as much fun as me!

Hi Jorge,

I did the HR LT test this morning.  I was on a spin bike and have done the test a couple times previously.  The last time I did it was last March with my LT @ 155.  This morning my average HR was 144.  Which would make my LT 140.  I really don't see where my fitness level has dropped since last March.  Could this just have been a bad day?  I felt as though I was working really hard for the test but I just couldn't get my HR up there.  In fact the highest I could get my HR today was 151. Last week I hit 163 on a 5K.  FYI...I am 48 years old and my HR always runs to the low side.

I think you can plug your result 144 into the HR training zone on your training log page along the left column to get your training zones.  At least that's what I did last year when using the TT testing that was listed on BT.  Of course that's just a guess and I'm not certain if that's available to free users of BT.

I had some time to compare Jorge's zones with the zones on the HR zone on the BT log and looking at his figures and the BT zones they don't seem to correlate.  So I'm not sure how to work it out.  I ended up multiplying the training zone percentage for the workout against my LT number to come up with the numbers for future Jorge rides.

Gang,
It seems there are questions regarding the way I suggested setting training zones (using a HR monitors) and why there is a discrepancy with the HR calculators offered here at BT so let me explain.

The method I am basing is the one suggest by Andrew Coggan PhD who has done extensive work with USA Cycling for power training seminars and co-author of the Training with a Power Meter Book. The way he established this training zones is based of power/pace at lactate threshold (a.k.a. LT) which is the most important physiological determinant of endurance performance, because this integrates VO2max, the % of VO2max that can be sustained for a given duration and cycling efficiency all key components for performance. If you click here you will get a description of the different zones suggested and the reasoning behind it. Given the extensive experience and his work I believe his training zones offer a better way to establish zones to better manage training load.

The BT calculator on the other hand is based as far as I can tell off Joel Friel’s 7 training zones. Now I’ve did a bit of research and I couldn’t find anything indicating how does Friel came up with his suggested training zones. I have the training bible (not at the moment) but I don’t remember it was mention in it (if someone does please share the info).  Anyway, I personally have grown skeptic of some of the teachings of Mr. Friel because after gaining some knowledge and experience I now realize some of the info suggest on his books and other venues is incorrect or misused. But in this case it is my personal opinion the zones suggested by Coggan are better because 1) there is a physiological explanation behind it 2) He has great credentials when it comes to cycling training and 3) they are simpler to follow.

Now let me remind you; training zones are man created as a way to address different physiological adaptations and to allow us to train more efficiently. But your body doesn’t really know when one zones starts and another ends, they all blend together fort that reason when you are doing work at certain intensity while it will produce more specific adaptations achieved at that intensity you still are producing other adaptations achieved training at other intensities at some degree.

For instance doing interval sessions at threshold power/pace will primarily produce adaptations such as increase muscles glycogen storage, muscle mitochondrial enzymes , increase lactate etc but also adaptations at a lesser degree achieved when training at endurance power/pace (z2) such as improvement of slow twitch muscle fibers fatigue resistance. On the link provided above you can see this illustrated on Table 2.

Follow the next link and you’ll get an online calculator for Andrew’s HR/power zones. Once you done the test (power or HR) and determine your LTHR (97% of avg for test) or FTP (critical power for 20 and 5 min test) just plug in the value on the calculator and voila, you have your training zones!

I hope ths helps to explain as to why I suggest why I do

rayd: your LT cycling and running will usually be different (cycling been lower) because the work done by your body is lesser when just sitting on a bike moving your legs with your weight supported rather than when you are running and moving more muscles and sustaining your own weight and moving it forward. How did you test you LT last March?

Kimk: see my newest post

KOM: I think it is awesome you are doing this with your spin class. Given some of those people might not be cyclists/triathletes maybe you can add some standing up (not much) when resting between intervals to mix it up a bit and give them something else to think about.

Rottieguy – see my newest post

Kudude –great job! Your numbers is just a benchmark of your current fitness so the good news is that as long as you do the work that number will only go up!

Aquagirl – it is hard to tell because I don’t know how does your extrapolated training zones were calculated. In this instance IMO the number you just achieved during our testing it is a better indicator of your current fitness. I would do this; use the number you got (LTHR = 150) and training like that for a few weeks. If the intervals seem too easy then bump your LTHR up by 5 beats but if it feels challenging then you are where should be.

Ouradventure – see my newest post

Jmwebs – great job!

Jorge: thanks again for the mentorship! Re my zones, when I did my treadmill  LT we got 168 as the LT. The person who did the test thn just stuck that number into the chart in Joe Friels book....but in the bike LT section. So I was told my bike zone 4 was 162 to 168 and that my run zone 4 was 158 to 168.

That test was done in the spring and I know my fitness has increased since then. Does this make sense? Can the bike # be 18 beats lower than the run #? 

 I'm overthinking this....just gotta get my a$$ on the trainer and ride.....

Thanks Jorge.  Yea, I understand that LT would be higher running than cycling...I was just surprised by that large of a gap.  Last March when I did the LT it was very similar conditions, indoors on a spin bike.  The one thing that I was thinking about was last winter I was pretty consistant in hitting the spin bike at least 2 or 3 times a week because I could not run or ride my bike.   Now I am running and riding my bike and have only been on the spin bike 3 or 4 times since last winter.  For some reason when I get into a grove with spinning I can get my HR higher than when I am riding roads.  Seems odd...but that's kinda my history.

Jorge,

Thanks for all the great info - this has all been really helpful so far.

I have another question for you.  I'd like to be able to add in one more ride per week in addition to the three that you have set out.  I'm assuming that I'll have anywhere from 30 min to 75 min for the ride.  This may be done on a separate day - or might immediately follow one of your workouts.

For the amount of time, what would you recommend in terms of FTP?  I managed a short 30 min ride this morning, but it was only at about 70% FTP.  I'm worried about not putting in enough effort and therefore just wasting my time with these rides or the opposite, going too hard and impacting the effort I'll be able to put into your structured workouts.

Any help you can give to point me in the right direction is much appreciated.

Neil

I attempted a LT HR test yesterday morning.  After 22' of all out effort I realized my Garmin wasn't recording data.  Uuugghhh!  It had stopped at 7'.  Not sure why.  So, this morning tried again and was successful.  I did this test on the trainer. 

Interesting results.  My avg HR was 153 which gives an LT HR estimate of 148.  Before this I was using my avg HR from a sprint tri (161) and multiplying times 0.95 = 153.  Somewhere I read to multiply a race effort avg HR by 0.95.  So the two results are fairly similar. 

Jorge, would you suggest using different HR zones on the trainer and on the road?  The trainer always seems like a harder effort than the road.  Because of this it seems reasonable that the road and the trainer might have different HR zones.

Also, I'm glad you explained where you got the zone % you use.  I noticed that the zones you suggest match my RPE much better than the Friel zones.  Based on RPE, the Friel zones always seemed too high.  With your zones my z2 feels like the correct RPE for z2; z3 feels like a z3 RPE, etc.

rayd - what you mention might be a reason for the difference, simple put your fitness is not the same as it was last year hence you didn't have the endurance to push as hard. But with 4+ weeks of consistent riding your fitness should be back and you should be able to push harder. For that reason we we'll retest sometime in Jan IIRC

GoFaster – start with 70% of FT and if you have the energy you can add some bouts of intensity into that session (i.e. 2x5 min @ 95-100 FT or 15 min @ 80-85 FT) and go from there. The point is for you to successfully complete all your sessions week after week, but adding extra load that keeps challenging your body and adapting. Do all 3 sessions and add the 4^th riding as you did. If at the end of the week you did all and you feel you can handle more, either make the 4^th session longer or add intensity as I mentioned and try again. It is better to be conservative but do everything than aggressive and start doing too much.

Aquagirl – yes please! I love chocolate cookies

Zia cyclist – yes, training zones tend to be different between indoors and outdoors. We tend to generate more power outdoors and plausible reasons for this are that indoor trainers tend to not replicate 100% riding conditions and the boring factor. Also remember HR can be affected by other variables hence riding indoors and outdoors my produce differences. What I would do is to use my HR zones and see how they relate when riding outside, maybe adjusting yours by a few beats up when outside might do the trick and check against RPE.

Jorge,

I know that in some of the previous posts people had asked about cadence, and you'd answered that we shold each ride at a cadence with which we feel comfortable.  For me that has typically been around the 90 mark, which everyone seems to always refer to.  So I did a little test with the Q2 workout this morning, based on the two interval sets.  I had to play around with the gearing a bit to do this, but here are the results.

First set - Cadence 86, Power 227, Speed 31, HR 158

Second set - Cadence 92, Power 224.6, Speed 30.8, HR 159

I think my legs felt the first set more so than the second, but it may also be that I was better warmed up by the second set.  Is there a way to determine what our optimal cadence should actually be?  And please correct me if I'm wrong - but if we learn to push a bigger gear (even at a lower cadence) will it make us a stronger cyclist?

Questions that I hope help everyone.  And once again, thanks for all the great feedack Jorge (I promise to ask fewer questions going forward).

Evening all

I have been to sick to ride.  I made to though week 2, Q1 & Q2 but crashed after that.  I tried to do Q3, but after a few minutes I was coughing so hard...well it was messy.

I am off to the basement here to start week 2 over.  I was looking forward to the test, but figure I will be a week behind.  My walking germ factory...er I mean 7 year old is coming down to ride on her stationary bike...she needs to show me how it's done.

Anyone seeing surprise in the Power test? 

Joe

Just want to confirm what percentage of the Avg HR over the 30' LT test the heart rate monitor group should be using to determine LTHR.  I've seen 95% and 97% used interchangeably in this thread and on your blog.  For example, the LT test instructions say to use 95% and then give an example (your HR test results) which use 97%.

Yes I'm obsessed with 2%

Just finished doing the Wk 3 Q1 20 minute time trial workout with my spin class.  What a blast.  I've been nursing a knee issue so I know I could have pushed harder but it was still a valuable lesson in learing how to gauge my effort better.  I'm also trying to figure out my optimum cadence and played around with the numbers a bit during the warm-up as others have been doing.

Thanks Jorge for all your efforts!