Why are teachers paid so poorly in the USA? (Page 2)

Gawd that's funny.  I live on "Cypress Street".  So used to typing that.  And to think I teach Geography.....ACK!

And originally I was going to say "I hope you don't teach geography"!!

The operative word here is "Average" salary.  Here's my county's pay schedule

The first number being number of years taught, followed by the salary.  Mind you, there have been no "step increases" in the past 3 years in our county due to budget cuts; meaning if you are still being paid step 1 even if this is your third year teaching.  No foreseeable step increases coming.

The $44K average is skewed because you have quite a large number of teachers who have been at it for decades, many of whom really shouldn't be teaching, who hang on for the salary they prolly don't deserve.

I agree about the unions.  I wouldn't join mine if they paid me monthly.  They are a joke with power to do NOTHING!!  There's even an "anti-strike" clause in the state contract which does not allow for union strikes.

I see a lot wrong with some comments but will only say one thing right now cause I dont have much time: Many people assume that teachers only work when kids are in class. This is very very wrong. I watch my wife spend her weekends preparing lessons, her evenings grading/special ed paperwork, she spends her summer taking classes to further her education so she can do better at teaching, and she spends her breaks working to get ahead so she is not so stressed when coming back. On top of that her benefits are not even on par with what I get so she is on my plan (I work in healthcare). Overall my position is much better because I don't bring work home, great benefits and when I have a break it is an actual break. (granted in Healthcare and not being a doctor I do not make that much right now but I get by just fine, as does she.)

ok so more than one thing but still. Teachers, most that I know anyway, earn every penny they are payed 3 times over.

First off, I really don't know of any district that has 3 months off.  In the district I work for the calendar ends June 15 and we start up August 21 (yes, a Friday). 2 months and a few days.  Just saying.

But, for me the real issue is that teaching is underrated and underappreciated.  Judging from some of the responses here I would say that few people understand the amount of work a truely dedicated teacher puts into the day (I typically work an 8+ hr day) and beyond. In Illinois (48th in education funding) teachers are required to have continuing education hours or will not be able to renew certificates.  In my district you are given 7 years to complete a Master's, if you don't already have it, or are frozen on the pay scale.  I'm not comparing to other professions as far as work load, I know that other people work just as hard.  I  also believe that teacher salaries have gotten better over the years.  It's just the "oh you're a teacher.  Lucky, you get your summer's off and get to go home at 3:00" attitude.  I'm a professional with a Master's Degree.  It just so happens that all my clients are under 4 feet tall.

Ok first for the reality check.  I have worked in business for more than 20 years now.  At NO point in that 20+ years have I ever received a 10% increase in salary without receiving a promotion.  The only times I have ever received large increases in salary is when I have changed jobs.  I have changed jobs several times over the years, and in nearly every case I have increased my wages.  The only time I did not was when I effectively moved out of my area of expertice, and into a new area.  That job ended up lasting only 3 months, and I left with mutual concent.

Most raises I have seen, and given have been in the 2-4% range.  The only effective way to change that is to change jobs.  If you teach in a district, and that district is holding wages because of financial difficulties leave the district or leave the profession.

Teachers get a bad rap because of the crummy teachers that EVERY kid gets, but the union refuses to get rid of.  Just like bad cops, elected officials, accountants, doctors, and lawyers (wait are there any good lawyers?) give those professions bad press.  The only difference is those can generally be fired, teachers seem to stay for life.

What's a 2-4% raise??  I've seen a 2% raise, every other year, as contract negotiations with the State take place.

BUT, I still say I have some decent bennies - just got up to 200 hours vacation time, have accumulated 140 hours sabbatical, 5 hours sick leave added every 2 weeks to the 2100 hours plus sick leave I have accumulated since I began.

More importantly, I have a job in this tough economy, which I enjoy (most times).

For those of us with jobs, we should be thankful.

I'm not saying the job is easy, or even that is doesn't suck at times. I genuinely appreciate good teachers, just like I appreciate a good dentist or mechanic. What I'm saying is the pay is not bottom of the barrel, and that it does not reflect societies disdain for teachers.

Ultimately, my issue is with the seemingly neverending lament that teachers are wofully underpaid.  I don't believe it.

Something that I read or heard a long time ago, about why teachers, policeman, certain types of government workers or public servants ... the reason they get paid less than something equivalent in the private sector ... is because they want people in these professions who are in it because of their love and passion for the job .... and Not for the money.

Let's talk about police officers.  If it paid really well lot's of people would be signing up to go to the Police Academy ... even those with less than honest intentions, or morals or ethics.

But if the pay isn't that great, then there is a higher chance that those folks becoming police officers are doing it because they believe in the mission of that job and more likely to stay ethical and follow the rules.

I dunno if this is really correct or not, but it does seem to make sense.

Again, I bash the unions.  If you look at the pay schedule, you'll see that even if the step increases were granted (which they are not) the steps for the first 10+ years do not even keep up with the 2-4% rate of inflation.  Factor that, and you make less each year.

Yet the union idiots looked at that and thought, "Yeah, looks good".  What frosts my a$$ even more is that as one who wants nothing to do with our union, I am still handcuffed to THEIR contract.  Whether union or not, you are hired and sign the contract that the union created.  The state has an "agreement" with the union that all teachers use theirs.  Unions are so hypocritical.  They want organized labor to insure that the workers have a voice in what happens to them.  Yet when a worker wants to use his or her own voice (or negotiate their own working terms) they have no option.  Reminds me of early American settlers who left England to avoid persecution for their religious beliefs yet when they arrived to the "new world" they killed the "savages" who were different from them.

Idiots.....

I think your police example actually does not prove your point.  Both of these are jobs with TERRIBLE "side benefits" - police get to be shot at and teachers have to deal with some truly horrible kids and parents.  I haven't been shot at (unless you count paintball), but I work with kids on a regular basis.  And my year working as a girl scout troop leader convinced me that I could not be a teacher since you can't tell the parents that their little sweetheart has serious problems and needs to be on meds.  I can't even imagine spending 6 hours a day having been burned out with a couple of hours and a weekend each month.

Well having a salary schedule based on nothing but years of service is one major factor.

And this is a quote in our local paper yesterday from someone in the school system:

 "I don't know a single teacher who would be driven to do a better job if they were paid $1,000 more a year,"

then why don't you?  I seriously  hate this attitude.  You apparently don't know any teachers.  Hardly any one of them work "short hours" during a week and most of my grading is all done on the weekends. unpaid.

My Mother was a teacher, and I have many friend that teach.

Most teachers are good teachers, and they knew before hand, what pay, benefits and conditions were/are like.

Our public school system, IS NOT, a failure, but our parenting system is.

I many states, teachers salaries are paid over 12 months, to cut down on unemployment costs.

Teachers spend hours, out of class room, grading, preparing and continuing their education.

Teachers have to babysit your unrulely, under/over clothed, under/over fed, under/over disciplined, under/over active, rude, violent, abused, withdrawn, briliant, talented, enthuiastic, under/over achieving child.  They have to deal with rude, disinterested, apathetic, angry, ignorant, over involved parents.  Teachers in inclusion classrooms have the added responcibility of managing SPED kids and their unique challenges.

After managing all of the above, they actually get to do what they like, and teach.

Some teachers have it better than others, but over all, i think they are under paid and under appreciated.

Kevin

p.s.  I was one of the above mentioned kids, AND I am thankful to the wonderful teachers that did not give up on me.

Like everyone, I've heard the "teachers are underpaid" argument for a long, long, time.  I wonder if teachers have heard it so long that they assume it's true?  While I don't disagree that teachers work hard and may be underpaid...assuming we could determine the perfect ratio of pay for work...so are lots of folks. 

That said, I am STUNNED by what the salaries actually are based on what's been said in this thread.  When I graduated from college with my bachelor's degree, I took a job that paid 24k (in 1998).  I quickly decided to go to graduate school and (20k in tuition later) was able to get a job for 40K and I was THRILLED.  I felt rich!  I could finally afford my student loans, modest car payment, and even do some shopping.  Now I have worked my way up with experience into a job where I'm head of a department in a library and still make within the range of what some teachers are apparently making.   I get zero days off in the summer, by the way. 

I work in a private law school library, so I am not saying I work with kids or even the nasty public that goes to the  public library.    If you want to talk about underpaid, talk to a public librarian.  In my market, librarians must have a masters degree to even get a clerical library job in any kind of library.

And for the folks that live in places like Nebraska and complain of starting at 30K with a bachelors, what is the cost of living like there?  What's the medium home price?  I live in a major metro area where the home price is over 200k (or was until recently).  

***Putting on 2 flame suits first***

Ok...1st off, I think Good teachers, such as Bix Sexy whom I've met, do great work and should be paid above the going rate.  I've had great and poor teachers, I still visit my 6th grade teacher every time I go back to Orlando.

Note: This does not apply to the corporate world because it will effect you pay and possibly get you fired.

Let me get this right:  Teachers have a system that pays them based on # of years and not on performance.  It's almost impossible to get fired.  That sounds a lot like a Federal Gov't job, like I have.  Here is the kicker.  You choose to work extra for no pay.  You choose to go above and beyond because it's in the interest of the students and makes you feel better.  I applaud that whole-heartedly...but it's your choice.

I work from 7 - 3:45...that's it.  If I work till 4, I expect to get paid overtime.  The contract I signed said that you work, you get paid.  It did not say you work hard on your off time for free you get paid more, so I don't do it.  Yes, it's a slight gamble because it might affect my promotion status but that's the unwritten rule/gamble I take. 

My wife is in education and her sister is a special Ed teacher and it just boggles my mind that they spend their personal time doing unpaid work.  But I also see why they do it.  Doesn't mean I am going to do it OR begrudge a teacher who didn't do it.  If enough teachers only worked during the hours they were scheduled it would come to a head and even the union would demand for them to be paid for the hours that they work.  But the unspoken rule will continue to be enforced and you get to spend your dinner grading papers while others watch (insert show here).

The difference is that for the most part, the teachers are stuck with the kids (and vice versa).  If my patients (or your clients/customers/consumers) don't like how you do your business, they find someone else. 

Part of my job involves school consultations.  I often bring medical students or residents with me.  They are generally impressed with the dedication and concern most school teachers (and guidance counsellors, psychologists, and other support teachers) bring to the job, especially when the child in question has serious behavioral problems (hence the consult) and at times unresponsive parents.  And unless it is a truly egregious problem of parenting that would require a CYS/DCFS referral, or a situation that allows expulsion, there is no leverage the school has to deal with the problem.