Teacher Pay (Page 2)

Gotta second what Jim said ... and respectfully disagree with the comment above.  If genetics were truly the determining factor, then all if not most intelligent people would have intelligent children and vice versa.  Goodness knows I have seen plenty of disparity in relative intelligence between children and their parents over the years. 

As such, I have a difficult time buying into the "pre-destination", "genetic pre-disposition" stuff.  For the most part, the overwhelming majority of people have the capacity to do/get what they want out of life.  Therefore, life is what you make out of it and education is the raw materials from which you make it from.

... and that is why teachers - coupled with parental involvement in their education - have such an impact on who their children are going to be when grown.  If we were to pay teachers with this thought in mind, then I suspect that we would have the political will to pay teachers for what they are worth.

(Btw, fwiw, I specifically moved to north Fulton County - a high property tax district - when I relocated to Atlanta b/c of the school system ... so I am annually putting my money where my mouth child is.)

Good strategy, cause, ya know, I *am* always right.

<I had good teachers.> 

True and untrue depending on where you are.  There are significant and substantial requirements in addition to a degree required for teaching in Minnesota.  There are even different certifications based on grade level generally grouped as elementary, junior high, and secondary.  Perhaps that's a major reason for the extremely high quality of public education in Minnesota.  I think we could probably prove both correlation and causation there. 

Tom

PS - My degree: secondary music education.  My profession: insurance underwriting.  I decided that I didn't love it enough to make it my career and I know for certain that I work less, deal with far fewer hassles, and get paid twice as much as most of my teacher friends.  The only real difference is that I could be fired at any moment but the bar is set so low in corporate America that I doubt my risk is much higher than a tenured teacher "protected" by a union.

Tom I think that is pretty accurate.  There are great variances from state to state.  Where I live now in the metro-DC area, there are some districts that offer signing bonuses.  In Pennsylvania, where I am from, you are hard pressed to find a job there in most districts.  High standards and quality education.

Tyrant, can you explain to me why, if intelligence is THE MOST IMPORTANT factor in shaping a child's future, why all people over a certain intelligence don't speak all languages?

Stop.  Before you answer, think again.  The answer is in Jim's comment earlier.  He's smarter than I look.

Exactly.  Intelligence only determines the ability to learn (thank you Jim), not the knowledge a child has.  Knowledge must be provided by a teacher (generic use of the term, could be parent, relative, whatever).  No one can speak a language they have not been taught.  My point, and I realize it's a limited one in the scope of this conversation, is that you seem to be dismissing the importance of teachers compared to intelligence in the education of a child.  If that is your point I would say that intelligence in a child is not of much use if the child has not the proper teachers to allow him/her to take advantage of that intelligence. 

Having said that I think that anyone who doesn't realize the value of a truly good teacher in a child's education has never seen the difference in their own child from their time spent with that kind of a teacher.  My son has a fantastic kindergarten teacher and I'd vote for a tax increase just to increase her pay.  She's unbelievable.  I have no idea how you set up a system to address this issue, I just hope the good ones are rewarded somewhere because they deserve it.

Ones genes define ones potentialities and the probabilities of those potentialities being fulfilled. They are not predestination or predetermination.

There are probably hundreds if not thousands of people alive right now who were born with a genetic make up that gave them the potential to finish Kona ahead of Faris Al-Sultan this year. Conditions, events and contingencies after their genetic make-up was defined kept them from doing so.  

Good teachers are severely underpaid. The service they perform is enormously valuable, their work is a pillar of a stable, civilized society.  Good teachers should get summers off and sabbaticals. Bad teachers deserve no job protection whatsoever. Their charge is too important, the damage they do too great*, the opportunities they squander too precious.

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any taxpayer funded service positions that have been successfully managed and compensated in the same manner as most private sector jobs. Teachers, and other municipal employees are evaluated and paid by cities and towns which is very different than being evaluated and paid by a corporation. There will always be a significant percentage of any community who see teachers as nothing other than a tax burden. In a corporation, the employees (mostly) contribute to the bottom line. In a school, everything and everybody is a cost center.  The business model for evaluation and compensation falls apart.

*Such as children growing up to believe things like "red bikes are fast".

*Or that real men ride ugly, sissy yellow bikes.