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2009-01-19 7:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon

Daremo - 2009-01-19 2:37 PM Knowing the potential for innaccuracy of both the machine and the course markers it is really a crap shoot as to what you get.  I personally do not have one but I do use a watch to keep track of splits based on the mile markers.  Then I compare them to what my effort level feels like and go from there to adjust my pacing accordingly.

I have run 2 marathons with trixie where her garmin told us we were at 8:45 pace, so we sped up to meet our goal times, and only later found out that we were already at 8:15's, so we sped up to 7:30's. Both of us missed our goals due to the pacing. Garmins are a guide, but not a very accurate pacing device. I refer to her garmin (and hers only) as a lying sack o , it's a joke, sorta.

Rick's advice is right on...use your watch, so a little math when you get an actual race split, and adjust appropriately.



2009-01-19 10:23 PM
in reply to: #1917177

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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon

mdickson68 - 2009-01-19 8:39 PM Just so we're clear on this:  You don't need a Garmin to regulate your pace.  A watch and mile markers is more than enough.

A Garmin is a watch?

I like to use mine but I don't use it to push myself faster or slower.  I use it more as an indicator of how my body is doing.  I have the alerts go off at each mile, and they've been pretty accurate.  Sometimes it tells me that I am starting to trail off a bit, which a lot of times means I should back off even more so I have more at the end.



Edited by kalalau 2009-01-19 10:24 PM
2009-01-19 11:41 PM
in reply to: #1916072

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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon

 

I should add that I wouldn't use the pacer buddy guy unless you are going to use him to slow yourself down, and not to speed yourself up.  If you did the latter, once he got ahead of you, you'd just have the discouragement of him being way ahead of you, for hours on end.  You need to keep encouraged in the marathon, not discouraged.

I've used the pacer guy once out of 29 marathons.  He's just too fast for me. ;-)  That slug.

2009-01-20 1:28 AM
in reply to: #1917177

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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon
mdickson68 - 2009-01-19 5:39 PM

Just so we're clear on this:  You don't need a Garmin to regulate your pace.  A watch and mile markers is more than enough.


Yup, true enough. My Garmin just saves me the distraction of a little math.
2009-01-20 6:25 AM
in reply to: #1916072

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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon
I used my garmin on a 10K yesterday and caught myself looking at pace and hr too much in the first mile. After the first mile, I made sure I only looked after it would beep (every mile) and that worked fine for me...
2009-01-20 12:37 PM
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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon
rkreuser - 2009-01-19 6:47 PM

Daremo - 2009-01-19 2:37 PM Knowing the potential for innaccuracy of both the machine and the course markers it is really a crap shoot as to what you get.  I personally do not have one but I do use a watch to keep track of splits based on the mile markers.  Then I compare them to what my effort level feels like and go from there to adjust my pacing accordingly.

I have run 2 marathons with trixie where her garmin told us we were at 8:45 pace, so we sped up to meet our goal times, and only later found out that we were already at 8:15's, so we sped up to 7:30's. Both of us missed our goals due to the pacing. Garmins are a guide, but not a very accurate pacing device. I refer to her garmin (and hers only) as a lying sack o , it's a joke, sorta.

Rick's advice is right on...use your watch, so a little math when you get an actual race split, and adjust appropriately.



That is a problem.

Tough to believe it was that far off though. I don't use the instant pace feature so much as the pace per lap feature, which I have found to be fairly accurate after a minute or two passes on any given lap.


2009-01-20 12:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon

BigDH - 2009-01-19 4:22 PM I wear it. Because I always wear it. Because my Garmin owns me, not the other way around. I am a slave. I am whipped, owned whatever you want to call it. I cannot imagine running without it. I love to look at the run afterwords, I love to hit the Lap button, I love it. I love seeing the route on gooogle maps. That being said, once the pace starts to slow, nothing can get it back.

LOL, X 2, I am the exact same way.  I wish I could get HR, Overall Time, Lap Pace, Distance and overall Pace shown at the same time.  (5 windows)

2009-01-20 1:48 PM
in reply to: #1918303

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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon
BigDH - 2009-01-20 1:37 PM

rkreuser - 2009-01-19 6:47 PM

Daremo - 2009-01-19 2:37 PM Knowing the potential for innaccuracy of both the machine and the course markers it is really a crap shoot as to what you get.  I personally do not have one but I do use a watch to keep track of splits based on the mile markers.  Then I compare them to what my effort level feels like and go from there to adjust my pacing accordingly.

I have run 2 marathons with trixie where her garmin told us we were at 8:45 pace, so we sped up to meet our goal times, and only later found out that we were already at 8:15's, so we sped up to 7:30's. Both of us missed our goals due to the pacing. Garmins are a guide, but not a very accurate pacing device. I refer to her garmin (and hers only) as a lying sack o , it's a joke, sorta.

Rick's advice is right on...use your watch, so a little math when you get an actual race split, and adjust appropriately.



That is a problem.

Tough to believe it was that far off though. I don't use the instant pace feature so much as the pace per lap feature, which I have found to be fairly accurate after a minute or two passes on any given lap.


x2
I fail to see how getting the splits from the time and the mile markers is so much more accurate then Garmin's Last lap Pace. Are you sure you and trixie were reading the Last lap Pace or it was the Current Pace (which indeed can fluctuate up and down considerably based on the current GPS reading)?
2009-01-20 1:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon
tcovert - 2009-01-20 2:28 AM

mdickson68 - 2009-01-19 5:39 PM

Just so we're clear on this:  You don't need a Garmin to regulate your pace.  A watch and mile markers is more than enough.


Yup, true enough. My Garmin just saves me the distraction of a little math.


x2
My Garmin does that too (with the same relative accuracy) plus many other things that my brain is just incapable of doing.
2009-01-20 2:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon

I've run two marathons (Sunburst and Las Vegas) in which the mile markers were significantly out of place. Certainly you can tell that if, for instance, it takes you 14 minutes to get from one marker to the next when you're supposed to be running a 9-minute pace. But in both cases it was nice to have the GPS to semi-verify that.

From my Sunburst race report:

We hit Marker 17, push the lap button, then the half-dozen or so runners in my proximity simultaneously look at each other with the biggest WTF looks possible: we just recorded a 6:30 split! Having the benefit of the Garmin, I see that the "mile" we just ran was only seven-tenths, that we just made up for the overages we had run to that point. Garmin says 17.09 total miles, so Mile 19 is only 0.89 miles to even it out. All of the markers after that are EXACTLY one mile apart.



Edited by the bear 2009-01-20 2:06 PM
2009-01-20 2:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon
the bear - 2009-01-20 2:03 PM I've run two marathons (Sunburst and Las Vegas) in which the mile markers were significantly out of place. Certainly you can tell that if, for instance, it takes you 14 minutes to get from one marker to the next when you're supposed to be running a 9-minute pace. But in both cases it was nice to have the GPS to semi-verify that.
It also allows you to know about the misplaced markers and feel rage for a bit, which can help or hinder your performance.  I wear mine all the time so stick to it with the mary.  It helps me link perceived effort vs real pace and is helpful to me to figure out where I am relative to my goal and how to pace accordingly.


2009-01-20 2:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon
Wear it to make sure you don't go out too fast. Pay attention to it at the beginning to keep yourself in check. It is sooo easy to get caught up in the excitment and go almost 30-1min/mile too fast at the start, and this can sometimes last up to 10miles, and you'll think your RPE is a 1- adrenaline is good like that. Unfortunately, it's not free- you will pay for that at mile 20.

I usually don't wear my HR monitor because it is so ridiculously high during a race. For example- I train around 150 running, but I've done a whole marathon at 170. For real. If I was obsessed with my HR, I would've run straight to a hospital.

Also, if you want to see your pace, it's crucial to put it on either 'average pace' or 'lap pace' because the current pace is wildly innacurate.
2009-01-20 2:23 PM
in reply to: #1916072

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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon
I can't imagine what people did in marathons before GPS, or even watches.  They probably blew up all the time and staggered to the finish.  How else could someone possibly avoid improper racing?
2009-01-20 2:37 PM
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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon

I prefer to wear it.  If you use the smooth function it's pace function is informative, however I will say I kind of do an additional smooth in my mind by looking at it a couple of times before I decide whether or not I believe the instantaneous pace.  During the race, I run by perceived exertion however early in the race and late in the race adrenalin and fatigue can easily deceive me on pace.  I do not necessarily want to have to wait for a complete mile to pass before I know if an adjustment is needed or if the adjustmen was correct.  Similarly if a hill messes with one mile's split, I do not want to have to wait for another mile to pass before I know what or if I am back on pace.  

The pace and heart rate data are useful after the race as a reference for future races and relating levels of fitness and planning the pace for the next marathon.  I look at that data and my data from some predictor races that I run with my Garmin the last month before I run a marathon. 

2009-01-20 3:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon
Scout7 - 2009-01-20 2:23 PM I can't imagine what people did in marathons before GPS, or even watches.  They probably blew up all the time and staggered to the finish.  How else could someone possibly avoid improper racing?
So if there are no watches, does that mean races arent timed then and everyone BQs?  Or are we running against the sun dial?
2009-01-20 3:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon

jszat - 2009-01-20 4:05 PM
Scout7 - 2009-01-20 2:23 PM I can't imagine what people did in marathons before GPS, or even watches.  They probably blew up all the time and staggered to the finish.  How else could someone possibly avoid improper racing?
So if there are no watches, does that mean races arent timed then and everyone BQs?  Or are we running against the sun dial?

Race against the other people.  Sorta how the whole thing started waaay back when.

Of course, there could be clocks to time the race, but no watches.  So you'd still get a finishing time when you managed to cross that finish line.



Edited by Scout7 2009-01-20 3:10 PM


2009-01-20 4:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon
I wear mine...but use it only for time, and taking automatic splits. So, basically like any other watch, except I don't have to remember to hit "lap" every mile on my own.
2009-01-20 4:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon

Scout7 - 2009-01-20 2:23 PM I can't imagine what people did in marathons before GPS, or even watches.  They probably blew up all the time and staggered to the finish.  How else could someone possibly avoid improper racing?

And how are things in the Luddite movement?

2009-01-20 5:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon
Scout7 - 2009-01-20 3:09 PM

jszat - 2009-01-20 4:05 PM
Scout7 - 2009-01-20 2:23 PM I can't imagine what people did in marathons before GPS, or even watches.  They probably blew up all the time and staggered to the finish.  How else could someone possibly avoid improper racing?
So if there are no watches, does that mean races arent timed then and everyone BQs?  Or are we running against the sun dial?

Race against the other people.  Sorta how the whole thing started waaay back when.

Of course, there could be clocks to time the race, but no watches.  So you'd still get a finishing time when you managed to cross that finish line.

Also, in reference to your earlier comments, sure you CAN do it without it but if it helps keep me on track, then why not?  Even the pros get feedback on their race times, splits, seconds off the leader, seconds off the record ... my Garmin helped me achieve a sub-4 marathon on Sunday and I am convinced without it I would have likely missed my goal.  Perhaps over time if I was consistently running marathons, knowing my pace and trusting my body would come easier, but for now, my Garmin was my helper.  I did not stare at it - I hit the lap button to check my splits and referred to it when I felt like my perceived effort was higher than it should be.  I enjoy the instant feedback and mine is pretty accurate distance wise.

As far as racing other people ... I typically am racing myself and the clock, so it is appropriate I would be wearing one!

2009-01-20 5:37 PM
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2009-01-20 5:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon
the bear - 2009-01-20 2:15 PM

Scout7 - 2009-01-20 2:23 PM I can't imagine what people did in marathons before GPS, or even watches.  They probably blew up all the time and staggered to the finish.  How else could someone possibly avoid improper racing?

And how are things in the Luddite movement?

Heh, I thought I recognized that horse drawn buggy pulling up to the last half mary.

I wear mine during running races.  I am not a very experienced runner and it's easy for me to go out too fast.  It helps pace me.  You can set it to auto lap so it will automatically take your mile splits if you don't want to.  And I dig the info after the race.



2009-01-20 5:43 PM
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2009-01-20 5:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon

PennState - 2009-01-20 3:43 PM I do actually wear mine in races, but I can tell you in my IM I never really looked at it much.

I didn't wear mine in IM, I used my polar with no gps, and even then I covered up the ealpsed time and only used HR.

I do use it in HIMs, but then again, I set it to read elapsed time and HR only, can't even get to current pace etc. as I find that information distracting during a race.  Find that I am either I am going too fast or too slow, usually.  Better for me to go on HR / RPE only

2009-01-20 7:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon

I lost mine on a mtn bike race on Sat and freaked because I was doing a half mary on Sunday.  When I finished I had planned to hike the course to look for it or else we were heading straight for REI to buy a new one.  Luckily someone found it. 

I do a run/walk so I feel hopeless lost without mine (I run/walk by distance).  Plus it was helpful to keep the math of the 30+min difference from gun time to my start time straight.  I heard many, many beeps of a garmin or timing device around me.  I had to pin mine to my sports bra since the QR pin popped out on the bike (thus, how it fell off my wrist).  I'm sure I looked interesting unzipping my top to peer at my garmin during the race.....

2009-01-20 9:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Wearing a Garmin during a marathon
If you have been using it during training, I say go for it. I just wore my 305 during my first marathon and used it as a reference for HR and lap times. I ran with a pace group so they kept things pretty steady but it was still nice to have the information there to check every now and then. I have to admit that I am a bit of a data geek so the post race analysis is cool too.
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