Goal less partner (Page 2)

I think kids learn from example and they can tell the difference between loving parents and those that tolerate each other THEN they tend to be that way in their relationships since it's how they learned what "family" is.

Loving parents tend to have loving kids.  Kids in domestic violence situations tend to be violent themselves.  Kids in sexually abusive situations tend to end up in sexually abusive relationships.  Go figure.

Agree 100%

It sounds like the two of you are in different places or have different priorities in your lives right now. It doesn't sound like the counseling was successful and though I'm in no way qualified to ask this question it's one that came to mind after reading this post... if you wouldn't be together if you didn't have kids - what makes it a good idea to stay together with kids?

Agree, obviously there is bigger relationship issues at play.  Maybe she feels pressured, maybe you're not communicating well so she doesn't share or has learned not to share ...

There is nothing wrong with goal-setting and talking about the future but I've found that it isn't limited to a yearly thing.

But i think in this case I'd be watching her actions not her words - is she motivated in work, family life, does she get things done in general? Does she have hobbies she enjoys? Or has she withdrawn from you and the family?   It seems like you could be worried about her ... maybe depression is possible - but so is the fact that you may not be on the same page and no longer communicate effectively.  But it's really hard to say based on this information.

To survive?

Excellent!

Since you have children, do whatever it takes to save your marriage.
That's your primary duty to your children.

If it doesn't work, then do it again.
Keep doing whatever it takes until you are through the crisis or you are out of options.

The children come first. Period.

The only exception to not breaking up your family is if there is abuse involved.
Then you need to get the children out of the situation.

The biggest factors in the breakup of marriages and families are
self centeredness, narcissism, and self absorption.
We're all susceptible to it. 

Forget about your own happiness. It doesn't matter.
What matters are your children.
You can worry about your own happiness when they are fully formed adults, if ever.

I agree that Fireproof is an excellent movie and is aimed at helping to save marriages.

Here are some videos from the Marital Healing Institute located near Philadelphia.
It can be some tough stuff to listen to.
Most people don't want to go there.  

I couldn't disagree more with some of what you've said above.  Absolutely the happiness of the parents matters.  There is a trickle-down effect that happens and children are a lot more intuitive to what's going on around them than you are implying.  If the parents are unhappy, this will generally lead to an entire home environment that's unhappy.  WHY when you obviously care about how children are raised would you think this is a good thing? 

Should a marriage try to be saved?  Absolutely it should if there is anything to save. 

Should the two people in the marriage try absolutely everything they can to make it work?  Absolutely they should.  But also realize that it won't always work out. 

Parents who are happy will provide a happy, positive environment for their children - the above notion that no matter what parents should stay together "for the children" is potentially taking that opportunity of happiness away from everyone in the family. I just don't see how that's a beneficial situation for anyone. 

*please note that I am NOT in any way making this a statement towards the OP, this is strictly an argument against Don Tracy's post. 

Even the notion that as parents we're somehow entitled to happiness is part of the problem.
We're not.
We have a duty, and that's to raise fully formed adults.

We're raising adults, not children.
Children put their own needs and wants first.
Adults put the needs and wants of those they're responsible for first.

So if you want to model for children, model the behavior of an adult.

That's all I got.
I wish the OP and his family well. 

There is so much that I find wrong with your statement that I'm sitting here shaking my head. 

We will have to agree to disagree as this is neither the time nor the place as this thread was formed by someone else with regards to their situation. 

That's right.

x 100

The parents being entitled to happiness is not a "notion".

It's a fact.

As a parent, one teaches not only by lessons, but by example. And knowing when to end something that is not working, in this sort of case as a LAST resort, is one of the lessons, if only for the trickle down aspect. Kids KNOW when something is wrong, and when the household is not happy. Call it emotional abuse if you wish, since not all abuse is physical, but it would be better for a couple to separate while still civil and friendly then to poison the atmosphere in which children are raised.

I, for one, completely agree with dontracy.  

If you have children, you owe THEM....or don't have them.  That's how big the responsibility is.  Yes, I get that some people so completely screw up their relationship that it may be better, for the children's sake,  to separate.....but there is now plenty of research that says children of parents who stay together, instead of divorcing, are at least as well adjusted as children of divorced parents. (lacking abuse, physical or substance, of any kind, of course)  

My wife and I always TRY to put our children's interests ahead of our own.  Sometimes we fail.....but it's not for lack of trying, and our children get to see a relationship that's real and requires work.  That's a GOOD lesson, because all decent relationships require maintenance.

Just to stay on track with the OP, my ultimate advice would be to do the really hard work to find common ground and keep your family together.....and yes, sometimes the work is really hard...but you'd have a hard time convincing me that it's not worth it.

Of course we have a right to be happy....but if you have children it comes with a great deal of responsibility.  It can never be taken lightly, and it can be really hard.

My wife and I made a decision long ago to never argue in front of our kids...and we don't, ever...come on, it's not hard, be an adult.  That doesn't mean we don't get mad at each other.  On those occasions when we do, we don't pretend, we just don't talk.  It lasts for a few days until we work it out.  The "working out" usually starts when one of our kids says, "dad, you and mom aren't talking, what'd you do?"  

Again, for the OP, good luck.  If you can't make the decision to leave because you have children then you have a place to start, no matter how precarious it may seem. Give it all you have.

The first role of parents is to keep their kids alive.  A close second is to show their children that life is a happiness and a gift.

I believe that the most important human goal is to love and be loved in return.

Everything else is just noise.

Sadly, I had a conversation with a good friend last night whose wife essentially told him this.  Good luck to the OP.  Kids first man - however you see best to accomplish it.

I just don't understand how if you are truly miserable (and I don't believe the OP is, I just think he's whining about something insignificant) how you can POSSIBLY be as supportive and loving as you need to be to give kids what they need to grow up into decent people.  Miserable people just leech negativity and bitterness into everyone around them.  I think a parent absolutely must sacrifice things for their kids, but if things are THAT bad, it's really much better for the kids to get yourself into a healthier situation.

Not in defense or support of the OP.

However, this is why I got divorced!  My sons had never seen me happy.  They never saw my ex and I enjoy each other. They never saw love in their own home.  I read books, went to therapy, begged him to go, met with the Deacon at our church, begged him to go, sat him down and tried to discuss our issues hoping for an ounce of understanding or consideration, begged for his love, attention, compassion.  Told him I needed things to get better or I would have to leave.  It wasn't until I filed the papers he would consider any of the above.  I even went to counseling with him.  The things that were important to me he thought were stupid including physical touch.  In his world he was perfect and if I was unhappy it wasn't his fault or issue in any way. 

It broke my heart.  He was not like this when we married.  He went from fun and loving to 80 year old grumpy man inside of 5 years.

We divorced after 8 years.  We both remarried.  My sons adore my husband and have a better relationship with him than their own father who lives 2 miles away and they see twice a year.  My husband and I have been married 13 years this year and I am happier than I ever thought possible, we have 3 girls together.  My boys thank me all the time for leaving their Dad and both have asked me how I managed to stay married for 8 years.  He is currently miserable in his second marriage and so is she. 

My boys deserved to see love, happiness, compassion, understanding.  I hate to think of the men they would become if I had stayed married. 

PS - I love my life, adore my children, homeschool, manage a triathlon store, coach volleyball and will do my first IM this year.  If you asked me my goals I wouldn't have any to list for you other than survive my IM.  I have never been a goal setter and don't think there is anything wrong with that.

That's what you get for marrying a 75 1/2 year old!