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2011-12-19 6:09 PM
in reply to: #3944532

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
JorgeM - 2011-12-19 2:43 PM
japewang - 2011-12-17 7:40 PM

Jorge and all,

Quick question. My values for first test at beginning of program:

20 min test: 290

5 min test: 348

CP in watts 271 (based on calculator)

Just completed 2nd round of tests

20 min test: 299

5 min test 386

CP IN WATTS: 270 (based in calculator)

Is that correct that my CP went down a watt?

Thanks!

yes.

assuming you tested well both times, the CP should be accurate. What it means is the following; 5 min test is highly correlated with your VO2 max (max aerobic capacity); as you can see you 5MP improved significantly which is expected between knowing how to do the test, the fact the program focused on that the first weeks, you might be a "responder", you've never trained to improve aerobic capacity and because adaptations improving VO2max occur in a relatively short period of time 2-4 weeks.

That improvement compared to your 20min gains which were more modest in comparison ( and not unexpected since we haven't focused on that yet) then what it means is that you have the ability to produce a lot of power for short periods of time; on those situations your rely more on your anaerobic energy system hence 'aerobically' you are limited at the moment. IOW, once you go longer, your power drops fast. 

What we want know is to improve your 20 min as much as possible so your CP increases as well; that is, we want you to become 'aerobically' stronger so when you go longer your power drops at a slower rate. That will be a mix of workouts for coming weeks when we focus on 20 min power and then on CP. So while it might not seem as good news that your CP is the same, in fact it is because your 5MP in theory, is like your ceiling fitness potential; that is, you have all that room to grow to improve your CP and get it closer to the 5MP. 

it will take hard work and consistency but you have the chance to improve your cycling significantly!!! 

Cool.  Science.  Thanks Jorge!



2011-12-19 7:56 PM
in reply to: #3744433

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
I will not run prior to attempting one of Jorge's workouts.
I will not run prior to attempting one of Jorge's workouts.
I will not run prior to attempting one of Jorge's workouts.
I will not run prior to attempting one of Jorge's workouts.

Lunch run got pushed to after work, went out with the intent to do one of my short runs, was not pressed for time, decided mid run to stretch it into one of my longer runs.

About 45 minutes after I finished running got on the bike for the first of Jorge's week 2 workouts. Ouch. Will not do that again.

2011-12-19 10:59 PM
in reply to: #3944559

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

I just started week seven.  Unlike most people posting here, I don't ride with a power meter.  I've been doing the program with a heart rate monitor.  I tested tonight for 30 minutes (was supposed to do it yesterday, but I ran a race on Saturday so I rested instead.)  My average heart rate during the test tonight was 142.  My average a month and a half ago was 143.

Now for the dumb question: Which direction do I want my heart rate to go?  Did I make ever so slight progress by sweating out gallons of discomfort in my basement or, sadly, do I need to break through the discomfort, embrace full-on pain for a few weeks and watch the average heart rate go up?

Again, my apologies for the boneheadedness of the question.  

2011-12-20 4:15 AM
in reply to: #3945276

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
Your HR will stay about the same in most cases. What will change is the speed you can sustain at that HR.
2011-12-20 7:19 AM
in reply to: #3744433

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Day 29 - MS 4x1'@125%, 1x1'@130%,

It wasn't as bad the first time as I didn't know what to expect. I do this time, which mentally just makes it more challenging. Have mercy!

2011-12-20 9:50 AM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Starting up this way late this year.  This year I managed to figure out how to get Jorge's workouts into a realtime workout readout with Golden Cheetah.  Below is W1D2 - well half of it since I spent way too much time getting it setup and not enough time left to ride.  I didn't get the power steps quite right in the erg file (now fixed), but in action it works quite well. 

A few more tweaks and this will rule my life over the rest of the winter.

Thanks for the program, Jorge.

GC



2011-12-20 10:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

I got in my 5min test on Sunday so now I have a CP to work with.

20min Test 1    256w     3.75w/kg

5min Test 1      316w     4.63w/kg

CP = 236w    3.46w/kg

 

If I understand this correctly, the pretty big difference in my 20min and 5min number really shows off my lack of aerobic conditioning and that I have a bit of a gap to close bewteen my Vo2 and CP. Hey we will look at it as room for improvement.

2011-12-20 1:52 PM
in reply to: #3744433

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
Week 7 20MP Test Complete.  Not even 5% lower than my peak in season 20MP.  I've only been doing workouts 1 and 3 since I'm concentrating on running this winter.  Have been putting in 35-40 miles but that's dropped due to Holiday mayhem.  Thanks!
2011-12-20 3:49 PM
in reply to: #3946339


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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
Just finished the HR 30min test.  Fun.  I had some odd looks from people in the gym, where I was doing it.  What, you never seen a guy on a tri bike and trainer going like his life depended on it!?  I increased .7mph and had a well paced test.  I have lots of respect for those of you out there doing this.    
2011-12-20 6:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
qrkid - 2011-12-20 12:06 PM

I got in my 5min test on Sunday so now I have a CP to work with.

20min Test 1    256w     3.75w/kg

5min Test 1      316w     4.63w/kg

CP = 236w    3.46w/kg

 

If I understand this correctly, the pretty big difference in my 20min and 5min number really shows off my lack of aerobic conditioning and that I have a bit of a gap to close bewteen my Vo2 and CP. Hey we will look at it as room for improvement.

We have the same 20MP but you have me crushed by 30w in the 5MP!!  I don't think I even hit 316 for the 3 min tests last year.

2011-12-20 6:56 PM
in reply to: #3946823

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
axteraa - 2011-12-20 7:14 PM
qrkid - 2011-12-20 12:06 PM

I got in my 5min test on Sunday so now I have a CP to work with.

20min Test 1    256w     3.75w/kg

5min Test 1      316w     4.63w/kg

CP = 236w    3.46w/kg

 

If I understand this correctly, the pretty big difference in my 20min and 5min number really shows off my lack of aerobic conditioning and that I have a bit of a gap to close bewteen my Vo2 and CP. Hey we will look at it as room for improvement.

We have the same 20MP but you have me crushed by 30w in the 5MP!!  I don't think I even hit 316 for the 3 min tests last year.

Man your most recent 20min test was great. Big jump. Pretty impressive that you can hold that high, compared to 5min power, for 20min.

Look forward to seeing your next progression.



2011-12-20 9:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
6x4 = I want my mommy.
2011-12-20 9:52 PM
in reply to: #3947070

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

rsmoylan - 2011-12-20 9:04 PM 6x4 = I want my mommy.

Just attempted this on tired legs and a fairly full stomach.  Failure.  Will regroup and try again soon.

2011-12-21 11:36 AM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Wk4- Day 1  yesterday for me... I think I have improved based on the numbers. I am still new to making sense of them but certainly feel stronger. We'll see what next week brings down the pike for testing.

 

thomas



Edited by golfpro 2011-12-21 11:38 AM
2011-12-21 11:38 AM
in reply to: #3947070

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

rsmoylan - 2011-12-19 10:04 PM 6x4 = I want my mommy.

LOL!!!!

2011-12-21 11:57 AM
in reply to: #3744433

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
Ok, I'm feeling the love now. 6x4 at 20min. pace = a workout I looked forward to ending.


2011-12-22 8:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
I saw someone post it earlier (or somewhere else...) that the down side to Jorge having this plan all listed from the start is that you have the whole thing---not a week-to-week unknown-----so I've had my eye on this block since it was posted---the 6x4' is no joke!
2011-12-22 11:20 AM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
6x4's were the toughest workout for me by far this week. Luckily next week looks much easier...
2011-12-22 12:07 PM
in reply to: #3949366

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Skippy74 - 2011-12-22 9:06 AM I saw someone post it earlier (or somewhere else...) that the down side to Jorge having this plan all listed from the start is that you have the whole thing---not a week-to-week unknown-----so I've had my eye on this block since it was posted---the 6x4' is no joke!

 

You guys are a head of me, I just did the 5*4 workout today...the thought of doing one more is not a warm fuzzy feeling.   Cowboy up!

2011-12-22 9:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Week 7 tests in the books.

Only been riding twice a week for ~1.5 hours a week.  Performing workout 1 and 3 during a run focus.  Was averaging 38-45 mpw up until the Holiday season.

20 minute power is about 5% less than I tested in August while riding ~4 times a week.

5 minute power is 6.5% higher than I tested in March.  I have been using 3 minute power since then to calculate CP.

I recall last year that my short duration power saw gains for the first phase while 20 minute power stayed relatively the same.  Seems to be the same thing for ME this year.  Very happy with it.  

Very happy with this plan for maintenance.  May even see some gains next time.  However, given that I'm only riding twice a week, I'd be happy to keep things the same.

Thanks.

2011-12-23 6:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
Just finished week 6 day 2.  This was the easiest workout so far, but next week is test week.  I've purposely not looked ahead, but after surviving that 5x4 this week, I don't see how a 6x4 is even possible.


2011-12-23 6:28 AM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

wbayek - 2011-12-23 7:05 AM Just finished week 6 day 2.  This was the easiest workout so far, but next week is test week.  I've purposely not looked ahead, but after surviving that 5x4 this week, I don't see how a 6x4 is even possible.

Just to give you something to think about Sealed

Not only do you add an interval, you cut your recovery a little as well, If I am not mistaken.

2011-12-23 6:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
qrkid - 2011-12-23 8:28 AM

wbayek - 2011-12-23 7:05 AM Just finished week 6 day 2.  This was the easiest workout so far, but next week is test week.  I've purposely not looked ahead, but after surviving that 5x4 this week, I don't see how a 6x4 is even possible.

Just to give you something to think about Sealed

Not only do you add an interval, you cut your recovery a little as well, If I am not mistaken.

and if your CP increases as a result of the tests, your targets increase as well. 

2011-12-23 7:09 AM
in reply to: #3951047

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
axteraa - 2011-12-23 7:30 AM
qrkid - 2011-12-23 8:28 AM

wbayek - 2011-12-23 7:05 AM Just finished week 6 day 2.  This was the easiest workout so far, but next week is test week.  I've purposely not looked ahead, but after surviving that 5x4 this week, I don't see how a 6x4 is even possible.

Just to give you something to think about Sealed

Not only do you add an interval, you cut your recovery a little as well, If I am not mistaken.

and if your CP increases as a result of the tests, your targets increase as well. 

You may vomit.

2011-12-23 8:27 AM
in reply to: #3951080

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
rsmoylan - 2011-12-23 8:09 AM
axteraa - 2011-12-23 7:30 AM
qrkid - 2011-12-23 8:28 AM

wbayek - 2011-12-23 7:05 AM Just finished week 6 day 2.  This was the easiest workout so far, but next week is test week.  I've purposely not looked ahead, but after surviving that 5x4 this week, I don't see how a 6x4 is even possible.

Just to give you something to think about Sealed

Not only do you add an interval, you cut your recovery a little as well, If I am not mistaken.

and if your CP increases as a result of the tests, your targets increase as well. 

You may vomit.

Vomit is for the weak.....death is a much better/easier option!!

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