Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. (Page 22)

1.19

Will do the 3rd set of workouts.

I'll try it as a .csv. Does that work?

I'll be redoing the test today. Hopefully with better results!



Attachments
----------------
Sarah first attempt 20 min FTP test.csv (119KB - 7 downloads)

I would suggest that you consider which test you felt you completed the strongest; so, if you felt the 5 minute test was fantastic but you could have done better with the 20 minute test could have been better, then go with the TT group. If you felt the 20 minute test was great but would like to redo the 5 minute, then go with the all rounders group.

Shane

Edited by gsmacleod 2014-01-12 12:22 PM

Agree with Marc and my thoughts:

If you HR for a tempo run is in the 150s, then it should likely be in the 140's for a tempo ride and if you look at your HR, it is building toward this level at the end of each of the segments. One of the issues with using HR to guage workouts is that it takes time to respond so if you were simply chasing HR, you would have been going too hard and then backing off to keep HR where it should have been as opposed to riding a given power and then letting the body respond to that power. I suspect that if these were longer intervals, you would have seen your HR come up to a level that would correlate pretty well with what a tempo HR would be if we had done a LTHR test to determine zones.

Also, for tempo work, 15 minute segments are pretty short as tempo is an effor that you can maintain for at least a couple of hours (riding tempo is what guys do in the TdF at the front of the peloton for significant periods of time, day after day) so this is why we would see the HR slowly build and level off if we increased the duration of these intervals.

Finally, many of the workouts we do early in a block will have lower percentages of FTP and for shorter durations and will build to have higher percentages of FTP and longer durations. So we will be doing more and more work as we progressively build your training load so this may not have been quite a tempo effort for you (although I suspect it was based on the files and what you posted about run HR) but in following weeks we will be building.

Hope this helps,

Shane

ok, it worked

I think you overcooked the warmup. You went for 20minutes from about 100 watts to 142. Then you did a few spints...rested 5-6minutes then tried to go at around 127watts for 10minutes.

During the last 10minutes of your warm up, you held 130watts, more than your test.

Go easier on the first 20 minutes, say 100watts, do the short intervals like you did. Let your HR come back down, if it takes 10mins, wait 10mins. You started with a HR too high. You started with fatigue already set in. The warm up is to activate your muscles not wear you down.

Let your HR come down to where it was in the warm up. Start at say 120w and build.

I think I recall you saying you were going to follow the SF rubber glove test. I was originally planning that as well until I compared it to Shane's 20 min test & saw the difference in the warmup. The first half of SFRG looked like it was a test in itself. What I ended up doing was following Shane's workout on TR (or GC) and watching RG (just for something to watch) starting it at 17 min in. That way the 20 min intervals lined up.

Hope the 2nd time around goes smoother.

Edited by cdkayak 2014-01-12 1:04 PM

That may explain what I saw in the file.
But you have to admit, the attractive blonde making omelettes while riding one leg,on rollers, is a must for test warmup
The only part I enjoyed of that hour.

Edited by marcag 2014-01-12 1:09 PM

Actually, let me provide a little more info on the SFRG. I got caught up with the images of omelette making on a bike

Their testing method is actually similar to what Elaine did.

Hunter Allen's protocol is to do 5' all out in the warm up, followed by 20', then take 95% of the 20 minute number to estimate your FTP. There is actually an explanation for wiping yourself out in that 5' warm up, FOR THAT PROTOCOL;

The protocol Shane is making us follow, your DO NOT WANT to do this 5' all out.

Tonight I will start writing some notes on the CP calculation, the CP curve (we will look at) and how you can, from your test results, predict the power you can hold for any duration of time.

Who remembers their grade 10 math, slopes and intercepts ?



Edited by marcag 2014-01-12 1:29 PM

Got my 20' test in today. Pretty nice day outside to get it done. Basically, 233 watts avg for my 20' test. Feel like it was a true and hard effort. Unfortunately from my house, tough to find flats so rolling hills w a touch more elevation/climbs is what I get. Uploaded to GC. Did their CP calculator and it came out w 222. Here's my Garmin file from today if anyone wants to take a look. http://connect.garmin.com/activity/429013131


Marq or Shane, did the math for the workout groups and came out w 1.158, which sits on the line for group 2 or 3. I'm thinking the All around group (#2) suits me. Agree?


Tom

Edited by tallytom 2014-01-12 2:22 PM

Cool, rise over run, y = mx+b and all that jazz!

What omelet?

Edited by cdkayak 2014-01-12 2:52 PM

I'm super excited to get to join you all. I have been a semi lurker for a few weeks and wishing I had seen the group early on so I could have joined. I lucked out when Marc posted about maybe being to take on a few new people.

Thanks for starting this group, Marc and Shane! I'm really looking forward to learning from the two of you and everyone else involved.

Name: Crystal or Crissy

Story: I enjoy being active - always have, but didn't do much other than the occasional weekend bike ride or inline skating. Attempted running a few times but always disliked it. My husband got into running and adventure racing 8 or 9 years ago, and about 5 years ago I finally bit the bullet, starting training by finally being able to run 2 miles nonstop and did my first adventure race. Now I'm hooked on them and do several every year from 2 hours to 12 hours in length. I've done a handful of half marathons - but I really don't like to run. I prefer to bike. A year ago I decided to try my hand at triathlon and began to teach myself to swim and competed in a few sprint triathlons. Wow was that addicting!! Then this past fall I added in cyclocross racing. Wow, that is super fun too!

Current Training: My current training STINKS! I have been very unmotivated since my last race in August. I've always been a slacker in the training department so I'm actually surprised I don't come in dead last at every event I do. I'm trying to get my butt out of bed at 5 am most days to get a work out in before the kids are up and I'm at work. If I don't get my 5 am workout in, it won't happen. My "goal" training plan is always 2 of every workout, but I'm lucky if I get 1xrun, 1xswim, and 1xbike each week. That's what I like about this group, accountability. If I have it, I am spot on with training. If I don't have it I stink at getting workouts done.

2013 Races: Lots of variety, lots of races. :-)

2014 Races: I don't have a plan here. I'll only do sprint tri's in the summer (it's the run that stops me from going longer). A handful of adventure races (heavy on biking) spread from February to October, and I'll likely do cyclocross again next fall. I might do a couple 100 mile gravel grinders this summer if I can find a way to squeeze them in.

Weightloss: I am at my normal weight, but a couple years ago I was down about 7 pounds from what I am now, and that was my fastest year, so I'd like to get down to where I was that year, but it's not a priority, but I am making a conscious effort to eat much better this year (less added sugar and much less refined carbs).

What would make me a good mentee: I am a pleaser. If you tell me to do something, I do it. If I have to do it on my own and have no one to report it back to it just won't happen. Plus I want to see a big improvement this year in triathlon, and I think this group will help keep me motivated and accountable so I can get there.

Equipment: Just got a Duotrap Speed/Cadence sensor, HR monitor, and Fluid2 trainer plus have a laptop with ANT+ stick to capture rides to the computer, have Golden Cheetah installed on my computer and had just started using TrainerRoad when a spot in your group became available.

Just a couple rides recorded to date:
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/597091-8-Minute-Test
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/604529-Gayley
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/618083-20-Minute-Test

Still figuring out GC and trying to get through all the posts - wow you guys post a lot! I joined the trainerroad group.

Adding that my initial GC given CP is 163 and FTP from TrainerRoad is 170.

Edited by crissy_jo 2014-01-12 4:44 PM

Welcome Crystal. Ive been part of the group since day 1 and am really digging it and a lot of good athletes here to motivate as well as Marq and Shane's dedication and knowledge. Good luck.

Tom

Welcome Crissy !!

Let's look at a chart

Now that you have done the 5' and 20' tests, if you load them into GC, one of the interesting charts to look at is your CP (Critical Power) chart
Off the "Home" tab, you should see CP. Click it, Select "This year" and you should get a chart like this, without the annotations I have added.




The Red line (labelled A) of this chart will show the power you should be able to sustain for different periods of time. As you move your mouse along the red line, it should show you the values. I captured points at 3min, 5min, 20min and 1hour.

The line I labelled (B) are values you actually hit during all workouts within the Date Range. In this case "this year".

The line labelled (C) is the values you hit during a specific workout. In this case I had selected the 20 minute test workout

The Red Line (A) and the actual workouts line (B) only touch at 2 points right now. If I did tests at 4', 30', 60'.....I would have more data points to "confirm" and possibly adjust the CP curve. For example I showed the value at 3min (349w). If I go out and test for 3 min and hit 360w, the red curve and my CP will change. Points I have actually hit have a date associated to them. Points calculated don't.

One way I personally keep my curve up to date, or want to see if I need to retest, is to test at various points. I suspect my 5' test was low. I may one day try an all out 3' test and see if I hit the 350watt point or not. If so, chances are my 5' was under performing

Also I can predict any point further to the left of the graph. For example, the chart predicts my 1hour number to be 294watts. This is actually my FTP. We said we would use them interchangeably but in fact the FTP (294) is slightly higher than CP (291). FTP is the 60min point on the CP chart.

Take a look at your own CP chart.

What is cool about this chart is as you ride, it will keep it up to date for you. As you hit points on the chart above what was previously there, it will readjust your CP. When you are out for a ride and you are feeling good, test a point along the curve. The more data points you hit along the curve, the more accurate your curve, especially if you are hitting points at the two ends and in between.

Edited by crissy_jo 2014-01-12 5:14 PM

Edited by crissy_jo 2014-01-12 5:14 PM

That is cool. I just did mine. It already readjusted my CP to 167 from 163 by doing this. Or maybe I just didn't do my CP right the first time.

I noticed some of you posted your watts/kg and mine is 2.55 W/kg for my CP.

The best data points to have are between 3 to 5 minutes and 20 to 30 minutes.

I made a unpopular comment among Strava users once. I said rather than chase KOMs, chase points along this chart.

Call me an all-rounder, then!

Watch out week #2, here we come.

Jaime

Hello, I did not see an answer to Tom's question and I'm in the exact same position as Tom with a 1.158. In fact I think Tom and I are clones as our 5' and 20' test were pretty much identical. The Tom and Ron show, what others strive to be! LOL

Anyway, I did not do well on the 5' but did well on the 20'. Should I be focusing on the 2nd or 3rd group workouts?

Thanks for all the great help so far. I can almost feel myself getting smarter.

Ron

Helps a lot, and makes sense. I appreciate both yours and Marc's input. Though I can say that 80% FTP for HIM distance would not be pleasant.

1.19, guess I'm a sprinter

If you think you could have done better on the 5', I would say group 3