LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

Fatdoggy - 2010-05-24 9:41 AM

JBrashear - 2010-05-24 10:28 AM

Fatdoggy - 2010-05-24 7:13 AM

megtrow - 2010-05-24 1:38 AM My initial reaction is not positive. I feel really let down. Which is really unfortunate, as I've been confident all along that the writers would really bring it for the finale and go out with a huge bang.

... I think I've just always been way too interested in the science side of this show than the faith side. I've said all along that I hoped that it wasn't all a spiritual/religious/faith/purgatory/etc thing in the end.
Boo.

(Maybe I'll be more satisfied with things after a night of sleep. I'll report tomorrow.)

Count my wife and I among those with you. This ranks "up" there with the Dallas "dream" and St. Elsewhere's "Snow Globe." A weak, cheap, easy cop out which tarnished the previous 6 years. After season one everyone was speculating the island was some sort of limbo/purgatory and the writers insisted this was not the case. Almost everything would be explained as being based in science they said. Now we find out it WAS a type of purgatory and none of it was real?! And despite their putting "multi denominational" symbols on their "church's" stain glassed window, I felt like I just had a Christian religious lesson rammed down my throat. A totally unsatisfying ending to what I thought was one of the best shows on TV. Thumbs DOWN!

No, it was not Purgatory. The island was real, Sideways World was Purgatory. It's an important distinction.

That seems to be the interpretation SOME are coming to, but it is not 100% clear IMO. If that IS the case, in many ways it makes it worse. We have no answers to major questions and there are so many holes left open in the plot you could crash a jet through them. ;-) I don't need EVERYTHING answered for me, but c'mon. We don't know what smokey was, we don't have answers about the #s, about Dharma/Hanso, Walt...the list goes on and on. I saw a bit of Fox on Kimmel after the finale and they both said they felt Jack did die during the crash and the entire story was his "test." He could not "pass over" until he resolved his issues and "let go." Who the heck knows? I can handle some spirituality, but don't lead me around by the nose for six seasons and then leave me hanging on most of the major questions raised during that time.

You mean, other than the part where Jack's Dad explicitly says "everything was real"?

We do know what Smokey was, that's one of the few answers given in the 'Across the Sea' episode.

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

JBrashear - 2010-05-24 11:24 AM

Fatdoggy - 2010-05-24 9:41 AM

JBrashear - 2010-05-24 10:28 AM

Fatdoggy - 2010-05-24 7:13 AM

megtrow - 2010-05-24 1:38 AM My initial reaction is not positive. I feel really let down. Which is really unfortunate, as I've been confident all along that the writers would really bring it for the finale and go out with a huge bang.

... I think I've just always been way too interested in the science side of this show than the faith side. I've said all along that I hoped that it wasn't all a spiritual/religious/faith/purgatory/etc thing in the end.
Boo.

(Maybe I'll be more satisfied with things after a night of sleep. I'll report tomorrow.)

Count my wife and I among those with you. This ranks "up" there with the Dallas "dream" and St. Elsewhere's "Snow Globe." A weak, cheap, easy cop out which tarnished the previous 6 years. After season one everyone was speculating the island was some sort of limbo/purgatory and the writers insisted this was not the case. Almost everything would be explained as being based in science they said. Now we find out it WAS a type of purgatory and none of it was real?! And despite their putting "multi denominational" symbols on their "church's" stain glassed window, I felt like I just had a Christian religious lesson rammed down my throat. A totally unsatisfying ending to what I thought was one of the best shows on TV. Thumbs DOWN!

No, it was not Purgatory. The island was real, Sideways World was Purgatory. It's an important distinction.

That seems to be the interpretation SOME are coming to, but it is not 100% clear IMO. If that IS the case, in many ways it makes it worse. We have no answers to major questions and there are so many holes left open in the plot you could crash a jet through them. ;-) I don't need EVERYTHING answered for me, but c'mon. We don't know what smokey was, we don't have answers about the #s, about Dharma/Hanso, Walt...the list goes on and on. I saw a bit of Fox on Kimmel after the finale and they both said they felt Jack did die during the crash and the entire story was his "test." He could not "pass over" until he resolved his issues and "let go." Who the heck knows? I can handle some spirituality, but don't lead me around by the nose for six seasons and then leave me hanging on most of the major questions raised during that time.

You mean, other than the part where Jack's Dad explicitly says "everything was real"?

We do know what Smokey was, that's one of the few answers given in the 'Across the Sea' episode.

Please tell me what Smokey was.

And I need more then the ghost of a minor character telling me "everything was real!" A few episodes ago Richard told them all they were "dead and in hell." IF it was all real on the "island" then there are way, way too many unanswered questions. WAY too many.

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

ok..questions for all the enthusiasts...

Who or what were the Dharma initiative?

What was Whitmore looking for? Were all his people dead too?

A submarine, a freighter and a plane were able to get to the island...but nothing else?

Penny never died..why was she in the church?

You see...too many loose ends..

Lost for me really "lost" the plot in the last 2 seasons and spoiled what was a very compelling series for the most part.

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

Fatdoggy - 2010-05-24 10:34 AM

JBrashear - 2010-05-24 11:24 AM

Fatdoggy - 2010-05-24 9:41 AM

JBrashear - 2010-05-24 10:28 AM

Fatdoggy - 2010-05-24 7:13 AM

megtrow - 2010-05-24 1:38 AM My initial reaction is not positive. I feel really let down. Which is really unfortunate, as I've been confident all along that the writers would really bring it for the finale and go out with a huge bang.

... I think I've just always been way too interested in the science side of this show than the faith side. I've said all along that I hoped that it wasn't all a spiritual/religious/faith/purgatory/etc thing in the end.
Boo.

(Maybe I'll be more satisfied with things after a night of sleep. I'll report tomorrow.)

Count my wife and I among those with you. This ranks "up" there with the Dallas "dream" and St. Elsewhere's "Snow Globe." A weak, cheap, easy cop out which tarnished the previous 6 years. After season one everyone was speculating the island was some sort of limbo/purgatory and the writers insisted this was not the case. Almost everything would be explained as being based in science they said. Now we find out it WAS a type of purgatory and none of it was real?! And despite their putting "multi denominational" symbols on their "church's" stain glassed window, I felt like I just had a Christian religious lesson rammed down my throat. A totally unsatisfying ending to what I thought was one of the best shows on TV. Thumbs DOWN!

No, it was not Purgatory. The island was real, Sideways World was Purgatory. It's an important distinction.

That seems to be the interpretation SOME are coming to, but it is not 100% clear IMO. If that IS the case, in many ways it makes it worse. We have no answers to major questions and there are so many holes left open in the plot you could crash a jet through them. ;-) I don't need EVERYTHING answered for me, but c'mon. We don't know what smokey was, we don't have answers about the #s, about Dharma/Hanso, Walt...the list goes on and on. I saw a bit of Fox on Kimmel after the finale and they both said they felt Jack did die during the crash and the entire story was his "test." He could not "pass over" until he resolved his issues and "let go." Who the heck knows? I can handle some spirituality, but don't lead me around by the nose for six seasons and then leave me hanging on most of the major questions raised during that time.

You mean, other than the part where Jack's Dad explicitly says "everything was real"?

We do know what Smokey was, that's one of the few answers given in the 'Across the Sea' episode.

Please tell me what Smokey was.

And I need more then the ghost of a minor character telling me "everything was real!" A few episodes ago Richard told them all they were "dead and in hell." IF it was all real on the "island" then there are way, way too many unanswered questions. WAY too many.

Smokey was the brother of Jacob.

Alpert's claim was proven false earlier in the season, it's not apples to apples. And if you need more than what they offered, you're not going to accept anything else that's said from here on out.

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

I did not take it that the church reunion meant you were dead, or dead as in just happened - Jack's father said that time was not relevant - so perhaps Penny dies in the future but is able to be there because time is irrelevant....or they all figure out time travel after death.....or after you are done and ready to move on....

As a Jew I felt TREMENDOUS Christian overtones which just made me feel kind of meh.

I did wonder about all the missing people....

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

Bcozican - 2010-05-24 11:44 AM

ok..questions for all the enthusiasts...

Who or what were the Dharma initiative?

What was Whitmore looking for? Were all his people dead too?

A submarine, a freighter and a plane were able to get to the island...but nothing else?

Penny never died..why was she in the church?

You see...too many loose ends..

Lost for me really "lost" the plot in the last 2 seasons and spoiled what was a very compelling series for the most part.

Dharma was one group in a long line of people who came to the island trying to harness the light. Much like the MIB's group was trying to do when he was killed by Jacob. Jacob worked with Ben to kill off Dharma to protect the light.

Whitmore was looking for the light as well.

Who said nothing else? Several boats have make it, including the Black Rock.

Penny died. We all die. The sideways world is some time in the future (in a different plane of existance). She and Desmond could have died happy at 90 years old.

I agree there are a lot of loose ends but all of these are explainable by the facts presented in the show.

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

Bcozican - 2010-05-24 10:44 AM

ok..questions for all the enthusiasts...

Who or what were the Dharma initiative?

What was Whitmore looking for? Were all his people dead too?

A submarine, a freighter and a plane were able to get to the island...but nothing else?

Penny never died..why was she in the church?

You see...too many loose ends..

Lost for me really "lost" the plot in the last 2 seasons and spoiled what was a very compelling series for the most part.

A helicopter also made it, not to mention whatever was doing the Dharma drops. So did Desmond's boat & the Black Rock ship. How many methods of transport do you need, exactly?

They all died. Everybody eventually dies. Aaron was in there, Claire was in there, Kate was in there...none of these people had died at the point Jack did. Purgatory isn't a place with a time construct & it doesn't relate 1:1 with Island World.

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

gearboy - 2010-05-24 9:35 AM
But here you go: The leader of the group takes on the the task of defeating the evil. In the process, he gets wounded and then killed. (Didn't you notice that he got stabbed in the side of the chest - like Christ was pierced by the soldier's lance?). He gets killed but then is miraculously resurrected. He meets up with his father, who leads him back to his followers, before his father again goes back into the heavenly light, while the followers all sit and wait for something in the church.

I immediately drew this parallel as well. (born and raised Christian for what it's worth)

On a side note, I enjoyed the producer's entire series re-cap before the actual show... that was convenient seeing that I haven't watched the last 4 seasons.

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

JBrashear - 2010-05-24 11:54 AM

Smokey was the brother of Jacob.

I think it's more complicated than that. Smokey is the "evil" that was in the pool of light. When the MIB was sent into the light he "unleahsed" the smoke monster. The monster then took on both the shape and memories/feelings/emotions of the MIB. The MIB wanted to get off the island so the smoke monster did as well.

When Locke and Jack are lowering Desmond into the light pool Locke makes a reference to something the real Locke and Jack did early in the series. So when smokey takes on the shape of someone he picks up their feelings/emotions/memories as well. So he's much more than just the MIB, he's a combination of all the people he has imitated (which would also include Jack's father)

Edited by TriRSquared 2010-05-24 11:04 AM

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

Bcozican - 2010-05-24 11:44 AMA submarine, a freighter and a plane were able to get to the island...but nothing else?

Remember the episode where Michael was given the boat by Ben to leave the island with Walt? He was instructed that if he stuck to a heading of 325 he'd find rescue. So they established early on that there was a specific "door" which allowed people to pass in and out of the island's area of influence and that the Others were aware of it.

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

JBrashear - 2010-05-24 9:59 AM

Bcozican - 2010-05-24 10:44 AM

ok..questions for all the enthusiasts...

Who or what were the Dharma initiative?

What was Whitmore looking for? Were all his people dead too?

A submarine, a freighter and a plane were able to get to the island...but nothing else?

Penny never died..why was she in the church?

You see...too many loose ends..

Lost for me really "lost" the plot in the last 2 seasons and spoiled what was a very compelling series for the most part.

A helicopter also made it, not to mention whatever was doing the Dharma drops. So did Desmond's boat & the Black Rock ship. How many methods of transport do you need, exactly?

They all died. Everybody eventually dies. Aaron was in there, Claire was in there, Kate was in there...none of these people had died at the point Jack did. Purgatory isn't a place with a time construct & it doesn't relate 1:1 with Island World.

Guess I forgot there were other methods...thanks for the clarification-

Edited by Bcozican 2010-05-24 11:15 AM

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

JBrashear - 2010-05-24 10:59 AM

Bcozican - 2010-05-24 10:44 AM

ok..questions for all the enthusiasts...

Who or what were the Dharma initiative?

What was Whitmore looking for? Were all his people dead too?

A submarine, a freighter and a plane were able to get to the island...but nothing else?

Penny never died..why was she in the church?

You see...too many loose ends..

Lost for me really "lost" the plot in the last 2 seasons and spoiled what was a very compelling series for the most part.

A helicopter also made it, not to mention whatever was doing the Dharma drops. So did Desmond's boat & the Black Rock ship. How many methods of transport do you need, exactly?

They all died. Everybody eventually dies. Aaron was in there, Claire was in there, Kate was in there...none of these people had died at the point Jack did. Purgatory isn't a place with a time construct & it doesn't relate 1:1 with Island World.

it might be a poor analogy but remember the end of the movie Titanitic ?? when the Older women finally dies,, everyone is there to great her on the ship, they are all to great her and take her to the next place whatever that may be.

My take was since everyone dies at some time. and it was said that some of them died before Jack, Some after. that it just Took him a while to get to that place (the church) to meet up with everyone.

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

I was moved by the reunions: Sayid and Shannon, Jin/Sun/Juliet, and especially by Sawyer and Juliet, as I expected. To me, the show could have ended there.

After that, I was kind of disappointed. The commentary here is helpful. I didn't like to think that they all died immediately after the crash, as I've invested 6 years in these people. Some of your thoughts have helped me see that maybe not all of these people died right away and in fact some may have lived many more years.

Now that Lost is over, what do I do with my time!?

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

JBrashear - 2010-05-24 11:54 AM

Fatdoggy - 2010-05-24 10:34 AM

JBrashear - 2010-05-24 11:24 AM

Fatdoggy - 2010-05-24 9:41 AM

JBrashear - 2010-05-24 10:28 AM

Fatdoggy - 2010-05-24 7:13 AM

megtrow - 2010-05-24 1:38 AM My initial reaction is not positive. I feel really let down. Which is really unfortunate, as I've been confident all along that the writers would really bring it for the finale and go out with a huge bang.

... I think I've just always been way too interested in the science side of this show than the faith side. I've said all along that I hoped that it wasn't all a spiritual/religious/faith/purgatory/etc thing in the end.
Boo.

(Maybe I'll be more satisfied with things after a night of sleep. I'll report tomorrow.)

Count my wife and I among those with you. This ranks "up" there with the Dallas "dream" and St. Elsewhere's "Snow Globe." A weak, cheap, easy cop out which tarnished the previous 6 years. After season one everyone was speculating the island was some sort of limbo/purgatory and the writers insisted this was not the case. Almost everything would be explained as being based in science they said. Now we find out it WAS a type of purgatory and none of it was real?! And despite their putting "multi denominational" symbols on their "church's" stain glassed window, I felt like I just had a Christian religious lesson rammed down my throat. A totally unsatisfying ending to what I thought was one of the best shows on TV. Thumbs DOWN!

No, it was not Purgatory. The island was real, Sideways World was Purgatory. It's an important distinction.

That seems to be the interpretation SOME are coming to, but it is not 100% clear IMO. If that IS the case, in many ways it makes it worse. We have no answers to major questions and there are so many holes left open in the plot you could crash a jet through them. ;-) I don't need EVERYTHING answered for me, but c'mon. We don't know what smokey was, we don't have answers about the #s, about Dharma/Hanso, Walt...the list goes on and on. I saw a bit of Fox on Kimmel after the finale and they both said they felt Jack did die during the crash and the entire story was his "test." He could not "pass over" until he resolved his issues and "let go." Who the heck knows? I can handle some spirituality, but don't lead me around by the nose for six seasons and then leave me hanging on most of the major questions raised during that time.

You mean, other than the part where Jack's Dad explicitly says "everything was real"?

We do know what Smokey was, that's one of the few answers given in the 'Across the Sea' episode.

Please tell me what Smokey was.

And I need more then the ghost of a minor character telling me "everything was real!" A few episodes ago Richard told them all they were "dead and in hell." IF it was all real on the "island" then there are way, way too many unanswered questions. WAY too many.

Smokey was the brother of Jacob.

Alpert's claim was proven false earlier in the season, it's not apples to apples. And if you need more than what they offered, you're not going to accept anything else that's said from here on out.

Again...I don't think it is that clear. Was Smokey his brother, or something ELSE which was released when Jacob threw his bro into the light? He found his real bro's body afterward, so it does not seem likely it was truly his bro. We don't KNOW what smokey is. We don't KNOW what the light is. We don't KNOW what the island is. We don't truly KNOW too many things brought up over 6 seasons. I could live with the sideways world being "purgatory" and the island stuff being real, but if that was the case then EXPLAIN at least some of the mysteries on the "real island." They didn't, at all and you're right I won't accept it and feel cheated. The writers of this show were excellent IMO with the exception of the Jacob flashback episode a few weeks ago and now the series finale. I'd come to expect more.

FWIW I will still assist you in wars on MW. :-)

Edited by Fatdoggy 2010-05-24 11:39 AM

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

Okay... one more question/plot hole for me....

If Jacob & MIB couldn't leave the island, how was it that Jacob was able to visit and touch all the candidates at some point in the past?

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

And how did he pick them as being "Lost and Alone" from the time they were kids? B/c he had watched all of them for a long time and it seems most of the characters had a more recent string of "low points" as opposed to an entire life.

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

brynn - 2010-05-24 10:45 AM

gearboy - 2010-05-24 9:35 AM

brynn - 2010-05-24 8:25 AM Whaaaa???? I am a Christian, and the ending did not have any of this, that I could see. At best if we're talking religion, this was a Universalist ending - all roads lead to heaven, you don't have to really repent or anything to get there. You just have to be "ready".

No talk of Jesus or anything, and He's pretty foundational if we're talking Christianity. At any rate, I liked the ending. I totally cried when Claire and Charlie found eachother....I love their story, and I love both of their characters. OK so I also cried about Sayid and whatever her name is too. I also thought it was so sweet when Kate told Claire that no one know how to be a parent, at least not at first.

Really? I think it must be that because you ARE a christian, the symbolism is almost invisible to you - like asking a fish about the water. I recall back in my HS English Lit class being enraged at how EVERYTHING we read had Christ analogies.

But here you go: The leader of the group takes on the the task of defeating the evil. In the process, he gets wounded and then killed. (Didn't you notice that he got stabbed in the side of the chest - like Christ was pierced by the soldier's lance?). He gets killed but then is miraculously resurrected. He meets up with his father, who leads him back to his followers, before his father again goes back into the heavenly light, while the followers all sit and wait for something in the church.

It is hard to see it NOT in religous terms, and given the specifics, hard to see it as other than christian. Certainly not Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Sikh, Hindi, Wiccan, or animist in the imagery.

I can kind of see how Jack is a Christ-like character, and yes I did notice him getting stabbed in the side. But I guess repentance and faith in Jesus Christ are so fundamental to my faith that anything without those doesn't seem like much of a "Christian religious lesson".

Except that there are plenty of versions of christianity that require works, or have predetermined destiny, that the main issue in seeing Christ-allegories are the actions of the main characters. Like the Narnia books - very clearly christian, and yet no mention (that I recall) of Jesus.

Someone who doesn't know anything about the Bible couldn't watch this show and put anything together about Christianity at all. Plus Christianity has no purgatory unless you are Catholic, which is kind of Christian but kind of not depending on who you ask. Just my 2 cents!

I am not touching THAT live wire with a 10 foot pole - having gone to a Catholic university and married a Catholic girl, whose family is still Catholic. By most standards I am aware of, Catholics are Christian. And that's all I am going to say about THAT.

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

The Narnia books are a good example for me. C.S. Lewis is one of my fav authors and I knew going into reading his Narnia stuff that most of it was religious allegory. I CHOSE to read them any way.

The writers of LOST however have been telling us for years now that this was not the case on the show. I would gladly accept the spiritual aspect of the show had they balanced it with some of the scifi stuff being explained as well. They did not at all. It was completely ignored. PHOOEY!

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

Fatdoggy - 2010-05-24 11:36 AM

JBrashear - 2010-05-24 11:54 AM

Fatdoggy - 2010-05-24 10:34 AM

JBrashear - 2010-05-24 11:24 AM

Fatdoggy - 2010-05-24 9:41 AM

JBrashear - 2010-05-24 10:28 AM

Fatdoggy - 2010-05-24 7:13 AM

megtrow - 2010-05-24 1:38 AM My initial reaction is not positive. I feel really let down. Which is really unfortunate, as I've been confident all along that the writers would really bring it for the finale and go out with a huge bang.

... I think I've just always been way too interested in the science side of this show than the faith side. I've said all along that I hoped that it wasn't all a spiritual/religious/faith/purgatory/etc thing in the end.
Boo.

(Maybe I'll be more satisfied with things after a night of sleep. I'll report tomorrow.)

Count my wife and I among those with you. This ranks "up" there with the Dallas "dream" and St. Elsewhere's "Snow Globe." A weak, cheap, easy cop out which tarnished the previous 6 years. After season one everyone was speculating the island was some sort of limbo/purgatory and the writers insisted this was not the case. Almost everything would be explained as being based in science they said. Now we find out it WAS a type of purgatory and none of it was real?! And despite their putting "multi denominational" symbols on their "church's" stain glassed window, I felt like I just had a Christian religious lesson rammed down my throat. A totally unsatisfying ending to what I thought was one of the best shows on TV. Thumbs DOWN!

No, it was not Purgatory. The island was real, Sideways World was Purgatory. It's an important distinction.

That seems to be the interpretation SOME are coming to, but it is not 100% clear IMO. If that IS the case, in many ways it makes it worse. We have no answers to major questions and there are so many holes left open in the plot you could crash a jet through them. ;-) I don't need EVERYTHING answered for me, but c'mon. We don't know what smokey was, we don't have answers about the #s, about Dharma/Hanso, Walt...the list goes on and on. I saw a bit of Fox on Kimmel after the finale and they both said they felt Jack did die during the crash and the entire story was his "test." He could not "pass over" until he resolved his issues and "let go." Who the heck knows? I can handle some spirituality, but don't lead me around by the nose for six seasons and then leave me hanging on most of the major questions raised during that time.

You mean, other than the part where Jack's Dad explicitly says "everything was real"?

We do know what Smokey was, that's one of the few answers given in the 'Across the Sea' episode.

Please tell me what Smokey was.

And I need more then the ghost of a minor character telling me "everything was real!" A few episodes ago Richard told them all they were "dead and in hell." IF it was all real on the "island" then there are way, way too many unanswered questions. WAY too many.

Smokey was the brother of Jacob.

Alpert's claim was proven false earlier in the season, it's not apples to apples. And if you need more than what they offered, you're not going to accept anything else that's said from here on out.

Again...I don't think it is that clear. Was Smokey his brother, or something ELSE which was released when Jacob threw his bro into the light? He found his real bro's body afterward, so it does not seem likely it was truly his bro. We don't KNOW what smokey is. We don't KNOW what the light is. We don't KNOW what the island is. We don't truly KNOW too many things brought up over 6 seasons. I could live with the sideways world being "purgatory" and the island stuff being real, but if that was the case then EXPLAIN at least some of the mysteries on the "real island." They didn't, at all and you're right I won't accept it and feel cheated. The writers of this show were excellent IMO with the exception of the Jacob flashback episode a few weeks ago and now the series finale. I'd come to expect more.

FWIW I will still assist you in wars on MW. :-)

Why, if you've been watching this show since the start, would you _ever_ come to expect more? This is a show that doesn't answer questions, it's been that way since the start. You're like Tina Turner - 6 years into your marriage with Ike - being surprised that he just knocked the sh*t out of you.

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

"You're like Tina Turner - 6 years into your marriage with Ike - being surprised that he just knocked the sh*t out of you."

LOL!!

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

gearboy - 2010-05-24 11:55 AM

brynn - 2010-05-24 10:45 AM

gearboy - 2010-05-24 9:35 AM

brynn - 2010-05-24 8:25 AM Whaaaa???? I am a Christian, and the ending did not have any of this, that I could see. At best if we're talking religion, this was a Universalist ending - all roads lead to heaven, you don't have to really repent or anything to get there. You just have to be "ready".

No talk of Jesus or anything, and He's pretty foundational if we're talking Christianity. At any rate, I liked the ending. I totally cried when Claire and Charlie found eachother....I love their story, and I love both of their characters. OK so I also cried about Sayid and whatever her name is too. I also thought it was so sweet when Kate told Claire that no one know how to be a parent, at least not at first.

Really? I think it must be that because you ARE a christian, the symbolism is almost invisible to you - like asking a fish about the water. I recall back in my HS English Lit class being enraged at how EVERYTHING we read had Christ analogies.

But here you go: The leader of the group takes on the the task of defeating the evil. In the process, he gets wounded and then killed. (Didn't you notice that he got stabbed in the side of the chest - like Christ was pierced by the soldier's lance?). He gets killed but then is miraculously resurrected. He meets up with his father, who leads him back to his followers, before his father again goes back into the heavenly light, while the followers all sit and wait for something in the church.

It is hard to see it NOT in religous terms, and given the specifics, hard to see it as other than christian. Certainly not Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Sikh, Hindi, Wiccan, or animist in the imagery.

I can kind of see how Jack is a Christ-like character, and yes I did notice him getting stabbed in the side. But I guess repentance and faith in Jesus Christ are so fundamental to my faith that anything without those doesn't seem like much of a "Christian religious lesson".

Except that there are plenty of versions of christianity that require works, or have predetermined destiny, that the main issue in seeing Christ-allegories are the actions of the main characters. Like the Narnia books - very clearly christian, and yet no mention (that I recall) of Jesus.

Someone who doesn't know anything about the Bible couldn't watch this show and put anything together about Christianity at all. Plus Christianity has no purgatory unless you are Catholic, which is kind of Christian but kind of not depending on who you ask. Just my 2 cents!

I am not touching THAT live wire with a 10 foot pole - having gone to a Catholic university and married a Catholic girl, whose family is still Catholic. By most standards I am aware of, Catholics are Christian. And that's all I am going to say about THAT.

I think what Brynn was getting at was, while there were some parallels to Christianity, there were several key components missing (one of them JESUS CHRIST), enough so that it wasn't really a "Christian religious lesson" at all.

Oh and to help you on the whole purgatory thing, even the current pope admits that the prooftext that Catholics have been using to support their belief in purgatory (don't remember which letter to the Corinthians, but it's one of them) doesn't have anything to do with such an idea, nor does it support it.

So this whole "If you remember how you died, then you can move on" thing is in no way analogous to Christianity which says we are all inherently evil and only by the shed blood of Jesus can we be granted forgiveness and everlasting life IF we will repent and put our trust in him. No repentance, no trust in Jesus, not even as much as a mention of Jesus. Therefore no "Christian religious lesson", at least in terms of true Biblical Christianity. But this is a thread about LOST, not Christianity, so...

/rant

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Elite

3519

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

I loved the ending. The more I think about it, the better I like it. My husband cried out Nooooo when he found out they were dead and that the sideways universe was not completely real. I disagree with the purgatory thing. From what Christian said, this was the place they made to find each other. I see it more as the boat that they ride to valhalla rather than a place of atonement. It was where they could all "move on" to their final destination together. The island was real. The people were real.

Many questions were answered, but not in the way we expected or fully. The numbers corresponded to the names of the potential candidates that were left alive. The smoke monster was the man in black. His mother said that if they entered the cave, they would suffer a fate worse than death. Maybe it was suppose to be the blackness of his heart that caused him to become a monster, thus the reason jack did not. My husband believes that after putting the stone back, nothing happened until jack touched the water, he thought that he was giving his life back to the island. I don't know about that, but it sounds good to me. I don't think every question needed to be answered.

As for the Christian over tones of the show. They have been in lost since the beginning. Jacob is a biblical name, father of the tribes of isreal. Since the beginning there has been this idea of faith and leadership and sacrifice. And as overt as the idea of Christian Shepherd is, I did not feel like they rammed it down my throat. Oh and I am a neo-pagan and often feel like christianity is rammed down my throat. I didn't with this. I like the idea that these people of vastly different faiths, all moved on together. I think that is the reason why their were soooo many multifaith symbols in the chapel. (plus a funeral home chapel normally is non-faith / non denominational as to serve the whole public, although the giant statue of Christ out front may sway it towards christianity a little more than I would have liked).

Almost everything in this show is up to some sort of inturpretation, and maybe that is what I love about it. It doesn't matter what someone else took away from the show, but what I (you) took away from the show.

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

runningwoof - 2010-05-24 12:46 PM

I disagree with the purgatory thing. From what Christian said, this was the place they made to find each other. I see it more as the boat that they ride to valhalla rather than a place of atonement. It was where they could all "move on" to their final destination together.

I agree with this also [and pretty much everything else you said, but wanted to highlight this

]

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Champion

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SRQ, FL

Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

Bripod - 2010-05-24 1:54 PM

runningwoof - 2010-05-24 12:46 PM I disagree with the purgatory thing. From what Christian said, this was the place they made to find each other. I see it more as the boat that they ride to valhalla rather than a place of atonement. It was where they could all "move on" to their final destination together.

I agree with this also [and pretty much everything else you said, but wanted to highlight this

]

Then why did Ben stay behind? Seems like he still had some issues to deal with.

Of course I think they intentionally left it vague so we could all draw our own conclusions.

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Subject: RE: LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh)

TriRSquared - 2010-05-24 1:00 PM

Bripod - 2010-05-24 1:54 PM

runningwoof - 2010-05-24 12:46 PM I disagree with the purgatory thing. From what Christian said, this was the place they made to find each other. I see it more as the boat that they ride to valhalla rather than a place of atonement. It was where they could all "move on" to their final destination together.

I agree with this also [and pretty much everything else you said, but wanted to highlight this

]

Then why did Ben stay behind? Seems like he still had some issues to deal with.

Of course I think they intentionally left it vague so we could all draw our own conclusions.

I don't think Ben staying behind necessarily indicates it was a place for atonement.

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LOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!! (spoilers, duh) (Page 3)

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