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Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! (Page 3)
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| General Discussion | Triathlon Talk » Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! | Rss Feed  |
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 2010-06-28 8:24 AM in reply to: #2947098 |
 42 |  Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training!great post from the op water can kill us quickly, we do not have gills. I don't care how experienced you are. Talk to people that have spent lots of time in the ocean. Respect is key to survival. |
| 2010-06-28 8:24 AM in reply to: #2947637 |
Extreme Veteran 887   Lake Placid, NY | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! furiousferret - 2010-06-28 9:12 AM I always fear this having asthma that can get pretty bad (2 hospital trips in my life through attacks) and while its better in the water, having a bad attack could end the race. I'll run with an attack, and bike with one, but that whole borderline 'I'm going to pass out' feeling is a no go in the water. It was kind of a "perfect storm" that caused it - I was EXTREMELY nervous (it being my first HIM) so my heartrate/breathing was already elevated, it was VERY humid, which always makes my breathing much worse, AND the water was unusually choppy going out, meaning I had to work much harder than usual fighting the "current." Also, it was my first race since being diagnosed and I've been well-controlled with a steroid inhaler, so I didn't think to preemptively take a couple Albuterol puffs beforehand. My plan to reduce the chances of this happening next time are: 1.) I'm still a VERY inefficient swimmer, so take more lessons and spend lots of time in the water so that I am not working as hard when I swim. 2.) Use the inhaler beforehand. 3.) Do the weekly mini-tris here (A 400m swim/12 mile bike/3 mile run with no numbers or chips - kinda the tri equivalent of a fun run) as much as my body can take to get rid of the jitters. |
| 2010-06-28 8:33 AM in reply to: #2947098 |
| Member 63 | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! I'm torn on wetsuits. As a swimmer, I tend to dislike them. But, I also think take the free speed whenever it is offered. Wetsuits tend to have diminishing returns the better swimmer you are so it narrows the field. |
| 2010-06-28 8:38 AM in reply to: #2947098 |
Member 73 Virginia Beach -- Rudee Inlet | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! @ rstocks3 -- Now THAT is very good advice. I appreciate that comment a great deal. Thank you. I think another "sticky thread" for swim race etiquette such as this would be fabulous for newbies like myself. As for the "can't make it around the track but will be running a marathon this weekend" comment...let's get real. That is not a lack of swimming skill-- that is a lack of sense. The person who is that ill prepared is not a person who is probably bothering to check out beginnertriathlete.com anyway because they don't have a realistic idea of ANYTHING. Posting here won't reach that type of dopiness. You can't fix stupid. If a new person IS asking a question here, though, it's because they are at least making an attempt at developing a process (albeit very late in the game in some instances.) If a post questions, "I can't make the distance, should I do the race this weekend?" then it is probably a person who has recently realized he/she has bitten off more than he/she can chew and is looking for an elegant justification to be talked off the ledge and allowed to push back his/her race date... Again...I don't disagree with the sentiment or wisdom of KSH's advice, but rather the TONE. Fear is not the answer. Coaching, repeated encouragement of adequate planning, and something as simple as, "Yes you can do it...but perhaps tomorrow is not your day just yet..." is IMO more positive and less likely to turn people away from achieving their ultimate goal which is to complete their first tri. |
| 2010-06-28 8:54 AM in reply to: #2947440 |
Champion 9600  Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! PennState - 2010-06-28 4:10 AM Seems there are 2 separate issues: 1. Swim deaths occur EVERY year in triathlon. As others have said, it usually is related to a cardiac issue and not necessarily a poor swimmer. 2. There are definitely people who enter triathlons without adequate swim training to safely complete the distance. I, like KSH get upset when I hear that someone is planning a triathlon and is not trained for the swim properly. I don't think she or myself are discouraging newbies at all. As an analogy I would say that OWS is a little like skydiving. Skydiving is very safe if you get the proper instruction prior to jumping. It is pretty much mandatory from my understanding that the instruction must occur PRIOR to jumping. Maybe OWS needs to follow a similar lead? Again I will say that the two separate issues may or may not be related. ie; swim deaths seem to be more related to cardiac events and not 100% correlated with lack of swimming ability. But that doesn't mean lack of swimming ability for the specified OWS distance is a safe thing or a smart thing! I was just about to mention the same thing. I certainly agree that nobody should participate in a triathlon if they are concerend they can not pyshically finish the swim safely, I don't think the majority of deaths are skill rleated. Seemingly healthy people can have unkown cardiac issues which manifest during the swim resulting in drowning. |
| 2010-06-28 8:59 AM in reply to: #2947741 |
Master 1367 Dirt Road | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! bryancd - 2010-06-28 9:54 AM PennState - 2010-06-28 4:10 AM Seems there are 2 separate issues: 1. Swim deaths occur EVERY year in triathlon. As others have said, it usually is related to a cardiac issue and not necessarily a poor swimmer. 2. There are definitely people who enter triathlons without adequate swim training to safely complete the distance. I, like KSH get upset when I hear that someone is planning a triathlon and is not trained for the swim properly. I don't think she or myself are discouraging newbies at all. As an analogy I would say that OWS is a little like skydiving. Skydiving is very safe if you get the proper instruction prior to jumping. It is pretty much mandatory from my understanding that the instruction must occur PRIOR to jumping. Maybe OWS needs to follow a similar lead? Again I will say that the two separate issues may or may not be related. ie; swim deaths seem to be more related to cardiac events and not 100% correlated with lack of swimming ability. But that doesn't mean lack of swimming ability for the specified OWS distance is a safe thing or a smart thing! I was just about to mention the same thing. I certainly agree that nobody should participate in a triathlon if they are concerend they can not pyshically finish the swim safely, I don't think the majority of deaths are skill rleated. Seemingly healthy people can have unkown cardiac issues which manifest during the swim resulting in drowning. I was going to say that if the main reason for death in the water is because of cardiac issues maybe a better emphasis would be to get a physical before you participate in an OWS. That being said, one should certainly be able to swim the distance before getting in over their head. |
| 2010-06-28 9:05 AM in reply to: #2947209 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! TriPatrick - 2010-06-27 10:26 PM ToeKnail - 2010-06-27 9:15 PM I was in the Philly Sprint yesterday morning and was surprised to hear this morning about the man who didn't make it out of the water - very sad. Anyway, at this point there has been very little said about this in the news. Do we know if this was his first triathlon? Do we know if he did not consider himself a strong swimmer? another thread said he was heavily into triathlons sidebar hijack It was his first triathlon. |
| 2010-06-28 9:07 AM in reply to: #2947098 |
Extreme Veteran 597 Fairfax | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! I think also another driving factor that hasn't really been brought up is ego vs. $$. How many people want to give up an entry fee because they're undertrained? People pay their good hard-earned money to participate in these races, and many times these fees are non-refundable. Nobody wants to be that person that DNS's, but if you are putting yourself or other people at too high of a risk, is it worth it? Of course not. Every year there are at least 1 or 2 drownings, and it pains me every time it does because it's very hard to determine if it was an avoidable situation or not. Though if anything good can come from it, hopefully people will take an extra second or two to re-evaluate themselves. I firmly believe that you need to respect the water and respect the distance. I am in agreement that "fear" may be the wrong term, I think respect is more appropriate. |
| 2010-06-28 9:15 AM in reply to: #2947588 |
Expert 1215 Austin, TX | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! aquageek - 2010-06-28 7:47 AM , as a general rule if you rely on breaststroke to get you through the race, ... It's a slow stroke and the kick is also disruptive to your competitors. I really wish somehow they could enforce a no breast stroke rule. Yesterday I took a kick to the head and then somehow the guy's foot wrapped around my neck martial arts style. Fortunately for me I do not have a glass jaw and have been doing tris for years so i did not panic. I imediately thought about how lucky I was that it did not turn out badly, which it easily could have - hard shot to the head and then a push under water. |
| 2010-06-28 9:22 AM in reply to: #2947098 |
Veteran 369 Cabot, Arkansas | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! I can swim(meaning not drown), but I can't "SWIM". I just joined this other gym by me because they have a pool. OH BOY!!! I got a rude awakening!!! I did 500 yards, but not all of it was by swimming. That was last Monday. Needless to say is the first thing I did when I got out of the water was to inquire about swimming lessons. For 40.00 I get 2 lessons a week(hour long) for 4 weeks(8 lessons in all). This guy trains a lot of Special Forces guys and Triathlete's. My buddy who has completed a Sprint and can easily swim 500 in under 10 min with no problem even learned he was doing some things wrong that will help him. WATER DOES KILL!!!!...but I'm learning to fight back!!! |
| 2010-06-28 9:30 AM in reply to: #2947098 |
| Master 2460 | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! Sort of playing devils' advocate here, but while I agree with the OPs assertion to get your training and coaching BEFORE going into the swim, I think that most agree with me in that by far, the most frightening portion of the tri for any true newbie triperson (excluding competitive swimmers) is the swim. I don't know any newb who didn't have a lot of swim experience who went into the race overconfident about their swim abilities. In fact, it's always the reverse - everyone thinks they're going to drown, yet they end up finishing the swim leg. Overconfidence in the swim is NOT a major problem for newbies, even the untrained ones. Still, I agree - more coaching and more training before OWS is a good thing. |
| 2010-06-28 9:35 AM in reply to: #2947460 |
Champion 8540 the colony texas | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! rstocks3 - 2010-06-28 5:59 AM . WHEN THE GUN GOES OFF ............. WAIT! Start at the back of your wave and wait for 15 seconds before you start swimming. Now you've taken the mass start out of the equation and can relax. If you're worried about the fast swimmers in the next wave catching up to you then swim to the outside. Yes, you'll be swimming 770 yds instead of 750 yds but you will be by yourself and out of the chaos. Bob great advice.. what gets me is when people have the mind set that the swim doesn't matter since it's so short and they can make up time on the bike/run, But then start in the front so they can "save" a couple of min |
| 2010-06-28 10:01 AM in reply to: #2947098 |
Pro 4277 Parker, CO | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! I have not read all the responses but I do agree with the message that everyone needs to prepared for the distance they need to cover for their OWS. that said, I think newbies get through the swim better then they believed they would. I think most have done the training and respect the open water and the distance they have to cover. seems most of the drownings I have read about the person has been experienced with the OWS and triathlons. But for some reason didn't get through the swim. something that always goes through my mind when I hear about someone drowning, triathlon or otherwise, the person must have panicked! What caused them to panic? For anyone that might have drowned I don't know. But for me, the most panicked I have ever been is when someone is trying to swim over me. It might only be 3-seconds but it seems likes 3-minutes. I've learned to deal with this over the years but I really wonder about some people during the swim (men and women). why so aggresive? espeically when it's a strong swimmer catching the slower swimmers in the wave infront of you. sg hould the strong cyclist bump anyone he/she passes? I've read many race reports here on BT about people "mixing it up" with a swimmer for one rerason or another. I don't get it...what is there to prove in an amature race? Over the years I have done enough OWS to know how to deal with an aggressive swimmer. But I am not one of those. In fact, if I accidently swim into someone I will stop and swim around...never over. Anyway, I'm not implying that the guy that drowned this past weekend (or anyone else) did so because of an over aggressive swimmer. But I would bet he was panicked at some point about something. we need to be aware of what is going on around us as we swim, just as we would on the bike and run. |
| 2010-06-28 10:16 AM in reply to: #2947098 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! On my phone so can't type a long response right now. I want to say I love newbies to our sport! I encourage everyone I know to come to the darkside. I just want people to be SAFE and to THINK. That's all. |
| 2010-06-28 10:18 AM in reply to: #2947562 |
Elite 4048 Gilbert, Az. | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! |
| 2010-06-28 10:32 AM in reply to: #2947839 |
Member 119 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! I just wanted to throw my own 2 cents in. I am finally registering for a tri (two sprints, actually, about a month and a half apart) because I can already swim three times the sprint distance in the pool. It was being able to do that that made me realize I COULD do a tri. And its why during my cool down part of my swim I do in-water resting, side stroke and tread water. Because its not enough to be able to do them, but you have to be able to do them while very tired. The mental block for me had always been how easily dangerous the swim could be. I grew up on Long Island Sound. Its where I learned to swim and sail. The sailing test (to go solo on the camp's boats) on little sunfishes was that you had to sail out to a certain point, capsize the boat and then swim back to shore, usually in 1-2 foot waves. I did this at age 12. If I run and get tired, I can step out of the race and sit down. If I can't bike any farther, same. But that is not so easy in the water and I am not someone who is willing to rely on a kayak to save me. (but I think I will buy that swimmers belt-- thank you!) |
| 2010-06-28 10:47 AM in reply to: #2947098 |
Veteran 165 Whispering Pines, NC | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! I'm sorry...I just have to post this because I'm getting really aggravated! I do not understand how anyone could get something negative about KSH thread. SERIOUSLY!!! If the thread does not apply to you, then simply move on! I am more than capable of swimming the swim portion of a sprint or an OLY, but I still got something positive from the thread! She didn't call anyone out...she wasn't being condescending...she wasn't saying if you have to use the breast stroke or do the side stroke don't sign up because we don't want you in our sport...she was coming from a caring, experienced place that if you can't swim, please don't jump in the OW on race day to practice!! She was merely saying be careful and respect the water!! She is always very supportive to us newbies and is always there for advice! If we come on here soliciting advice from the experienced triathletes, then accept what they have to freakin say!!!!! It's not always going to be what you want to hear...!!!! Again, if her thread doesn't apply to you, move on!!!!! |
| 2010-06-28 10:47 AM in reply to: #2947244 |
Champion 7136 Knoxville area | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! wwlani - 2010-06-27 9:20 PM I agree - and I am waiting for the day when one not only has to have a USAT license (or one day license) but PROOF that they have completed an OWS with a mass start and PASSED the class. Accidents will always happen, but then again, why do people ride their bikes without helmets? I'm not being combative, but isn't many people's goal when it comes to Tri to PROVE they can? Life is full of risks after all... but I think if you are going to make people "PROVE" they can do something involved in Triathlon, it should be that they can Competently handle a bicycle. In the swim, you are, generally speaking, a hazard only to yourself. On a bicycle, you are a potential hazard to everyone else on the course as well. I've felt my health was threatened much more often on the bike course than I have in the water. |
| 2010-06-28 11:04 AM in reply to: #2947371 |
Expert 1151 Las Vegas, NV | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! tri808 - 2010-06-27 11:54 PM Agree with others. I haven't read all the posts, so apologies if I'm repeating anyone. I think AWARENESS of potential dangers in all of the sports is important. I don't think people should be scared of drowning or crashing their bikes, but they should be well AWARE that these things can and do happen and prepare for them in heir training. Learning what to do if you get in trouble in the water and learning how to properly pass people and be passed by people on the bike, as well as being comfortable in OWS and group swims & bikes is important. I think this was a great post & would have no problem if I had to pass a swim and/or bike safety & skills test before doing a tri. Edited by jpbis26 2010-06-28 11:09 AM |
| 2010-06-28 11:13 AM in reply to: #2947098 |
| Member 49 | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! thanks for the insightful post. i created one of the newb posts you referenced. like many i focused on running/biking because i can do it by opening my front door, while the swim required a pool or lake. weak excuse, but thats how i viewed things. I'm taking the next 8 weeks before my first tri, and committing all my time to swimming. i have some open water swims scheduled for tomorrow and wednesday. followed by a private lesson in the pool. I'll continue this until race day, and if i'm not ready, I'll back out. but I hope to be ready  good luck to everyone, as others have said, a short distance does not offset the danger of not being prepared. |
| 2010-06-28 11:18 AM in reply to: #2947460 |
| Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! All Karen is saying is to spend a little time getting acquainted to the chaos and actually do some swim training so you are NOT swimming from kayak to kayak. Let the kayakers (trained lifeguards) do their jobs and look for people in DISTRESS and not people trying to make it to the next kayak. I wanted to follow up on something Bob said, for those that have a plan of swimming kayak to kayak (as opposed to reacting to some unexpected event in the water). I learned at IMAZ '08 that the kayaks are for people that need them, they are not there for your resting use (absent above circumstances). I needed a kayak to survive at IMAZ due to an unforeseen medical emergency. Had that kayaker been otherwise distracted by trying to help a newbie that couldn't swim (unlikely at an IM, but you never know), I would not have received the assistance I did, and who knows what would have happened. I grew up in the ocean, played NCAA Div. I water polo, am a divemaster with 1,000 dives, and the sh*t still hit the fan. You just never know. |
| 2010-06-28 11:19 AM in reply to: #2947098 |
Expert 934 FL | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! Yes, it seems that most deaths are caused by cardiac issues. Could it be though that the cardiac issues were brought on by panic, difficultly, adrenaline, excitement, etc in a event that the participant is not truely ready for? I am sure we will never know for fact but it seems probable that if the participant was ready mentally and physically then the panic/hyperventilation, etc may not occur as much and thus may not cause a cardiac issue.
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| 2010-06-28 11:23 AM in reply to: #2947098 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! At the Lake Placid training camp we hosted last week I was in the water on a kayak to mark the turn around for our athletes. There were other coaching groups/athletes out there and while waiting a group of 3 ladies came to my kayak as one was having a panic attack. She rested for a bit hanging off my kayak and while I was telling her to calm down and if she was nervous about drowning to just flip on her back and let the wetsuit help her float. After a 5 min conversation I was shocked her ‘coach’ never mentioned this and also to learn it was her 1st time she was swimming that long AND in open water nevertheless; hard to imagine when LP is less than 4 weeks away. Eventually, a kayak from her coaching group came along and escorted her to the nearest shore. If less experienced swimmers spend sometime learning/practicing OWS, learning some safety tips and getting familiar as to what to do if things get a bit rough, it can significantly improve their safety chances. This reminder should also be intended for experienced/strong swimmers as both groups can experience difficulty at anytime. It is never a bad idea to practice this at least bit at every OWS. Point in case, last year at the RI 70.3 the swim was rather rough (choppy with white caps) and on my way out I began getting rather dizzy with the constant up and down on the waves. In addition, while I knew I could go the distance, I was battling a shoulder injury (still are) and I wasn’t as confident in my fitness as usual. Because of that and the dizziness, I began experiencing some anxiety so I quickly swam to the outside in case I needed a kayak and to avoid other swimmers trashing/hitting me. I stopped for a second doing water polo kick to put myself together and calm myself down. For a brief second I was debating whether to quit or keep going. A kayak saw me but I finally calmed down and felt confident to keep going so I give him a thumb up and resume my swim. I sure was very glad I knew how to react when things started getting tough; that not only allowed me to go onto finishing the race but probably saved me from a tougher experience. Bottom line, whether you are a newbie or seasoned swimmer, make sure you can tackle the distance and most important, make sure to practice/learn what to do in case things get tough out there, it can't hurt at all... |
| 2010-06-28 11:27 AM in reply to: #2948175 |
Master 2802 Minnetonka, Minnesota Bronze member | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! trimore - 2010-06-28 11:19 AM Yes, it seems that most deaths are caused by cardiac issues. Could it be though that the cardiac issues were brought on by panic, difficultly, adrenaline, excitement, etc in a event that the participant is not truely ready for? I am sure we will never know for fact but it seems probable that if the participant was ready mentally and physically then the panic/hyperventilation, etc may not occur as much and thus may not cause a cardiac issue.
Good article about Tri swimming deaths and heart issues. I believe there is also a link between cold water and constriction of blood vessels/arteries/veins causing blood pressure issues and therefore additonal stress on the heart, in addtion to the race adrenaline and washing machine start stress. http://www.medpagetoday.com/PrimaryCare/ExerciseFitness/19422 |
| 2010-06-28 11:29 AM in reply to: #2948185 |
Extreme Veteran 887 Lake Placid, NY | Subject: RE: Water Kills! Can't swim the distance? Never swam in open water? Get the proper training! Amen Jorge! My asthma attack actually started only 3-400 meters into the race and the reason I was able to make it ANOTHER 400 meters AND try to work through the attack was because I was comfortable side-stroking, flipping on my back, etc. as a backup plan in case I had to stop crawling for some reason. And not to hijack, but I wish I had known that you were in town last week. I would have bought you a beer in thanks for all you do here and all the wonderful advice you hand out. |
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