Who does flip turns and why? (Page 3)

x3.

A good open turn does not give you a chance to catch your breath.  It's less than a second slower than a decent flip turn.  Look at a breast stroke or butterfly turn, and you'll get an idea of what it should look like.

Yanti - I'm dating myself too, because I swam backstroke back in the days of neon clothing.  A good backstroke turn under those rules was really an amazing thing to see, and made a flip turn seem simple in comparison.

Gotta respectfully disagree... at least coming from a MOP age grouper.

It's all about how to spend your training time wisely. If you have 10 hours a week to use purely for swimming, biking, or running, then you should absolutely do every training variation for that single sport. When you have to spread that across all three sports, you have to decide what to exclude.

What you exclude is up for debate, but it's a reality that triathlon is a sport all on its own.

Swim is only freestyle and oriented specifically for long distance in open water. I'm not going to spend time on butterfly, backstroke, and breaststroke.

Biking is a non-drafting TT. I'm not worried about learning to ride in a paceline.

Running is long(ish) distance on tired legs. I'm more concerned with staying injury free and having a "strong" finish rather than a "fast" finish.

I'm going to leave the biking and running comments and stick to the swimming.

If training in a pool, you've got to turn at the wall.

Which turn ultimately benefits your swim performance in a triathlon more--a flip turn or an open turn?

Taking it back one degree--which turn ultimately makes your swim-in-a-pool training more efficient?

The way I see it, there are many claims for flip turns and very few for open.

And, you'd be 100% wrong.  You can talk yourself out of them as much as you want but they will improve your swimming, period, end of story. 

I agree about flip turns. I disagree that everyone can/should train the SAME as a person doing the single sport.

ETA: In fact, I find that flip turns help because open turns allow you to "stop" which would not occur in open water. However, the more time I spend swimming in choppy Texas lakes, I found that I have to switch from a long, smooth stroke to a shorter, more powerful stroke. I also rotate more to breathe in a lake than in a pool.

Same here.  It's more natural for me to do flip turns when I swim in a pool.

Also... Swimmers are told to not breath on the first stroke coming off the wall.

bryancd - 2011-06-30 1:31 PM

lamj77 - 2011-06-30 10:30 AM So  I want to learn flip turns but the pool at the gym is only 3ft deep...I'm afraid i'll bounce my head on the pool floor trying...what should I do?

I can do a flip turn in a puddle.

Yeah, 3 feet is plenty deep enough.

If at all possible, get someone to teach you/help you, but if not ... take it slow at first. You're not aiming your head at the bottom of the pool. It's actually less of a somersault than ... hm, not sure how to put it into words. There are threads and BT articles with video that explain quite well how to learn to do a flip turn, and yes--3 ft. is plenty.

That made me laugh out loud. 

To me it's simple - if your goal is to become a better overall swimmer, do flip turns.  I think there are lots of things we do during training (in all 3 disciplines) that may not be exactly what we do during a race. 

bryancd - 2011-06-30 11:30 AM You are welcome to disagree, although that won't make you correct. Swimming other strokes can help you be a better swimmer. Riding in a pace line can help develop bike hnadleing skills as well as good interval work which can make you a better cyclist. Running...well I'm not sure what your point is here. Now, I do agree that time management might preclude someone from doing these and other things, and that's fine, however it does not change the fact that if they could manage it, training the way I suggest would be better.

Can't argue with that, but it's the difference between a scientist and an engineer. To a scientist, nothing is impossible. To an engineer, some things are so improbable that you might as well call it impossible. I'm an engineer.

Point is, most people don't have the time to train in the pure sport for all three sports. What I'd like you hear from people like you, e.g. people that are respected on this board and have been successful in the sport, are which corners should definitely not be cut, which can you be lax on, and which can you dismiss without negatively affecting your performance. Simply saying that we should all chase perfection isn't as useful.

crowny2 - 2011-06-30 10:42 AM

TriAya - 2011-06-30 11:37 AM

lamj77 - 2011-07-01 1:30 AM So  I want to learn flip turns but the pool at the gym is only 3ft deep...I'm afraid i'll bounce my head on the pool floor trying...what should I do?

If at all possible, get someone to teach you/help you, but if not ... take it slow at first. You're not aiming your head at the bottom of the pool. It's actually less of a somersault than ... hm, not sure how to put it into words. There are threads and BT articles with video that explain quite well how to learn to do a flip turn, and yes--3 ft. is plenty.

Yep.  I'm 6'3" and I did flip turns in 2.5 ft of water at an indoor tri in January.  Now, I had to slightly adjust my push off cause I bounced off the bottom the first few times I did it, but it is totally doable. 

When I was trying to learn them on my own I use to hit the bottom all the time (note 3ft.).  What helped me was to actually slow down.  I was always freaking about wanting air asap that I would rush through it.  So, slow down.  Another thing is to watch your feet.  I don't do it anymore but when I was first learning I would watch my feet and I would actually kind of pause while flipped over and upside down and I would reposition myself if necessary so that my feet were properly placed on the wall and I could then push off. 

axteraa - 2011-06-30 12:34 PM

bryancd - 2011-06-30 1:31 PM

lamj77 - 2011-06-30 10:30 AM So  I want to learn flip turns but the pool at the gym is only 3ft deep...I'm afraid i'll bounce my head on the pool floor trying...what should I do?

I can do a flip turn in a puddle.

Yeah, 3 feet is plenty deep enough.

My pool I swim in is only 3'6"  and I'm never close to hitting the bottom.