login
Shane's (gsmacleod) Coaching Mentor Group - Open (Page 3)
-
No new posts
|
 2014-01-18 6:07 AM in reply to: TonyAbbott |
Pro  4353    Wallingford, PA |  Subject: RE: Shane's (gsmacleod) Coaching Mentor Group - OpenI have a power training question.... We're running an 8-week power-based training program at our studio. The program is being conducted on power-enabled spin bikes. The bikes are equipped with crank-mounted power meters which are essentially the same device as the Stages crank-mounted meter. The power meters transmit an ANT+ data signal. We're using PerfPRO to record and track ride data. PerfPRO generates a ride report for each rider with all kinds of interesting and useful data... We started the session with a standard 20 minute FTP test, and have everyone updated in the system with that FTP. Earlier this week, we did a 1 hour ride with new FTP data entered into the system. This was a ride focusing on shorter, higher intensity intervals (intervals of 30 - 60 seconds at 115% - 125% FTP, plus two sets of 5 "all out" 15 second intervals). In looking at the ride reports after this ride, several riders showed a TSS of > 100.... I theory, that shouldn't be possible - right? So I figure that means either those riders FTPs are under-estimated (quite possible, since this was probably the first FTP test for some of these folks, and they may not have pushed as hard as they could have), or perhaps these riders are relatively stronger at shorter, higher intensity efforts than longer, steady, sustained efforts. Is that a logical interpretation of these results? Another possible factor could be spin bikes vs "real" bikes. Riders could be getting a small boost in power from flywheel inertia, but they would have the same boost during the FTP test... Would love to hear thoughts from other coaches more well-versed than me in power training! |
| 2014-01-19 3:21 PM in reply to: jsnowash |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Shane's (gsmacleod) Coaching Mentor Group - Open Jenny, if you rode one hour then yes those numbers are incorrect. You cannot have a TSS above 100 if you ride for 60 minutes, even if you ride all out. However, if your FTP has increased and those TSS numbers are based off the past FTP number then yes the TSS score can be above 100 but it won't be accurate. TSS is the square of the intensity of the ride. If you ride all out for an hour that is 100%, but if you only ride at 70% then you will only record 70% of your maximal hour effort level even though it will show as 100. I am guessing they underestimated. I prefer to do a 5 minute and 20 minute test on separate days to have two data points that can be translated onto the mean maximal power curve to find true FTP. If you did the standard 20 minute test, did you take 95% of that number? |
| 2014-01-19 3:55 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: Shane's (gsmacleod) Coaching Mentor Group - Open Originally posted by bcagle25 Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by Birkierunner On the top of certification...I do not think it is necessarily an indication of the coaches ability to effectively coach someone but it at least shows some level of commitment to continuing education. Having said that, just because someone obtains a USAT Level 1 certification doesn't mean they are fit to coach someone. I took the Level 1 course a few years ago and frankly, it was embarassing the lack of general knowledge that some of the participants had. Yet, they got their Level 1 cert and they could then call themself a "coach". Although I've been an endurance athlete for 35 years and have read tons and tons of literature, got certification, etc, I still have a certain (for lack of a better word) hesitation to call myself a "coach". Its almost like unless I have 100% of the answers to every single question and can rattle off 5 literature citations to back them up then I'm not an effective coach. Then I tell myself, I have the background and experience.... and even though I'm just starting off as a coach, if I don't know the answer to a particular question/situation I know where I can go to find the answer. Or, at the very least I can rely on my own experience to develop a sound approach a particular athlete's situation and be able to monitor and tweak my approach as I progress with the athlete. Not sure where I'm going with these ramblings but wondered if anyone else has similar thoughts/self-doubt. To the point in bold; I agree and this is one reason that I think that most people who are considering coaching should consider pursuing certification. Although I think there are exceptions, basically based on education or experience, for most, I would encourage certification. To the italics, I have doubt all the time and I feel that when a coach stops having doubt that they will stop developing as coach. This doubt leads me to constantly question my practice, stay up to date on research, review my athlete's training cycles and ask what I could have done to better prepare them for race day. Shane Excellent point. You as a coach should constantly be looking for new evidence, data, results, what others are doing etc. Methods from 20 years ago have altered and changed. As a coach you should stay up to date on all of this while constantly evaluating your school of thought. I also think when athletes think what their coach does, this part is often forgotten about. You are not just paying your coach for the training program, that is a small fraction into what the coach does to put you on the best track possible for success. Shane/Ben/Yanti, et.al.: I have been lurking in this thread since you started it ( I am sure there are others) and I really appreciate this discussion on how a new coach might get started - very helpful. Shane, you have mentioned a couple of times your concern that some coaches might lean on Friel's Triathlon Training Bible a little too much. What other resources would any of you reccomend to someone's no might be thinking about coaching down the line? |
| 2014-01-19 6:05 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Pro 4353 Wallingford, PA | Subject: RE: Shane's (gsmacleod) Coaching Mentor Group - Open Originally posted by bcagle25 Jenny, if you rode one hour then yes those numbers are incorrect. You cannot have a TSS above 100 if you ride for 60 minutes, even if you ride all out. However, if your FTP has increased and those TSS numbers are based off the past FTP number then yes the TSS score can be above 100 but it won't be accurate. TSS is the square of the intensity of the ride. If you ride all out for an hour that is 100%, but if you only ride at 70% then you will only record 70% of your maximal hour effort level even though it will show as 100. I am guessing they underestimated. I prefer to do a 5 minute and 20 minute test on separate days to have two data points that can be translated onto the mean maximal power curve to find true FTP. If you did the standard 20 minute test, did you take 95% of that number? Yes - standard 20 minute FTP test, with 95% of the 20 min average set as FTP. Like I said, this was the first FTP test for many of these athletes, so FTP values may well under-estimated... "On Paper" the ride in question had a TSS of 75; but ride reports for several riders showed TSS > 100 (which I know shouldn't be possible...) |
| 2014-01-20 8:41 AM in reply to: TankBoy |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: Shane's (gsmacleod) Coaching Mentor Group - Open Originally posted by TankBoy Originally posted by bcagle25 Shane/Ben/Yanti, et.al.: I have been lurking in this thread since you started it ( I am sure there are others) and I really appreciate this discussion on how a new coach might get started - very helpful. Shane, you have mentioned a couple of times your concern that some coaches might lean on Friel's Triathlon Training Bible a little too much. What other resources would any of you reccomend to someone's no might be thinking about coaching down the line? Originally posted by gsmacleod Excellent point. You as a coach should constantly be looking for new evidence, data, results, what others are doing etc. Methods from 20 years ago have altered and changed. As a coach you should stay up to date on all of this while constantly evaluating your school of thought. I also think when athletes think what their coach does, this part is often forgotten about. You are not just paying your coach for the training program, that is a small fraction into what the coach does to put you on the best track possible for success. Originally posted by Birkierunner To the point in bold; I agree and this is one reason that I think that most people who are considering coaching should consider pursuing certification. Although I think there are exceptions, basically based on education or experience, for most, I would encourage certification. To the italics, I have doubt all the time and I feel that when a coach stops having doubt that they will stop developing as coach. This doubt leads me to constantly question my practice, stay up to date on research, review my athlete's training cycles and ask what I could have done to better prepare them for race day. Shane On the top of certification...I do not think it is necessarily an indication of the coaches ability to effectively coach someone but it at least shows some level of commitment to continuing education. Having said that, just because someone obtains a USAT Level 1 certification doesn't mean they are fit to coach someone. I took the Level 1 course a few years ago and frankly, it was embarassing the lack of general knowledge that some of the participants had. Yet, they got their Level 1 cert and they could then call themself a "coach". Although I've been an endurance athlete for 35 years and have read tons and tons of literature, got certification, etc, I still have a certain (for lack of a better word) hesitation to call myself a "coach". Its almost like unless I have 100% of the answers to every single question and can rattle off 5 literature citations to back them up then I'm not an effective coach. Then I tell myself, I have the background and experience.... and even though I'm just starting off as a coach, if I don't know the answer to a particular question/situation I know where I can go to find the answer. Or, at the very least I can rely on my own experience to develop a sound approach a particular athlete's situation and be able to monitor and tweak my approach as I progress with the athlete. Not sure where I'm going with these ramblings but wondered if anyone else has similar thoughts/self-doubt. Ooh ooh ooh me pick me AND STOP LURKING, you and anybody else ... we love you. I see three broad categories here: 1) the business side of starting coaching 2) how to become (continually) a good coach 3) must-reads/must-knows/recommended Just throwing a bunch of random stuff out here for 3) General: Tudor Bompa, Periodization Swimming: E. Maglischo, Swimming Fastest. Paul Newsome & Adam Young, Swim Smooth (the book and the 3 levels of workout booklets) + all the stuff on the Swim Smooth website. Sheila Taormina, Swim Speed Secrets (and the Workouts) + all the stuff on the website and SSW Facebook page. Steven Munatones, Open Water Swimming. Anything written by Doug Stern over on Slowtwitch. TJ Fry's blog. Cycling: David Greenfield's PDFs (I'm pretty sure they're at http://www.elitebicycles.com ) Running: Jack Daniels, Running Formula. Pfitzinger & Douglas, Advanced Marathoning. Anything written by BarryP over on Slowtwitch. |
| 2014-01-20 1:04 PM in reply to: 0 |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: Shane's (gsmacleod) Coaching Mentor Group - Open Can't believe I forgot Dr. Phil Skiba, Scientific Training for Triathletes. And anything else he's written, and that's a lot! As I said, random stuff off the top of my head ... definitely not a comprehensive list, but a good start. P.S. Alan Couzen's blog http://www.endurancecorner.com/ac_blog I have a feeling there are going to be a lot of P.S.'s Edited by IndoIronYanti 2014-01-20 1:09 PM |
| 2014-01-20 7:58 PM in reply to: jsnowash |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Shane's (gsmacleod) Coaching Mentor Group - Open Originally posted by jsnowash We started the session with a standard 20 minute FTP test, and have everyone updated in the system with that FTP. This is very likely part of the problem; especially for those who are new to power or the bike in general, they will likely underperform on their 20 minute test and 95% of that result will be quite a bit under their FTP. This is further compounded by the fact that the 20 minute test isn't the best way to determine FTP and you have conditions that are likely to result in FTP's that are not truly reflective of what your athletes are capable of. I prefer to use critical power (CP) with my athletes using both a short and long test. Alex Simmons has a great write up on power testing here - http://alex-cycle.blogspot.ca/2008/05/the-seven-deadly-sins.html In looking at the ride reports after this ride, several riders showed a TSS of > 100.... I theory, that shouldn't be possible - right? While hard to do, it is possible to ride in a way that could see a TSS of over 100 in a one hour session. There was a big discussion about it at the wattage group a while ago although I don't know if anyone was able to complete the workout, there was one suggested that looked "doable." This again assumes that FTP is well established (which I suspect is the trouble here) as if my FTP is higher than I've tested, getting over 100 in an hour isn't that hard. Shane |
| 2014-01-20 8:30 PM in reply to: TankBoy |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Shane's (gsmacleod) Coaching Mentor Group - Open Originally posted by TankBoy Shane/Ben/Yanti, et.al.: I have been lurking in this thread since you started it ( I am sure there are others) and I really appreciate this discussion on how a new coach might get started - very helpful. Shane, you have mentioned a couple of times your concern that some coaches might lean on Friel's Triathlon Training Bible a little too much. What other resources would any of you reccomend to someone's no might be thinking about coaching down the line? Yanti listed many that I have but my go to resources are: Triathlon - Skiba's books (and apparently there is a new one on the way) Swimming - Championship Swim Training Biking - Training and Racing with a Power Meter Running - Daniels' Running Formula I have a bunch of others; I'll try to dig them out and list some of the others that I have found valuable (as well as some that I have found less useful). Shane |
| 2014-01-21 8:54 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: Shane's (gsmacleod) Coaching Mentor Group - Open Hey Yanti and Shane - thanks for the resources - I will get on it. And Yanti I will do my best to stop lurking, but at the moment I am not sure what I have to offer in that I am not currently a coach (but I am a coached athlete). When I have more than access to a phone I will post some more detailed info pertaining to my interest in this group, and I imagine that I will have lots of questions as I start working my way through the resources you have both recommended. |
| 2014-01-22 7:39 AM in reply to: TankBoy |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Shane's (gsmacleod) Coaching Mentor Group - Open Rusty, Happy to have you here and feel free to ask anything and share your experiences. The group is supposed to be useful for both coaches and those who are interested in getting involved in coaching so feeling as though you have something to share is not required (although I'm sure you have lots of value to add). Shane |
| 2014-01-22 7:57 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: Exciting News! Very exciting to see that triathlon has been added as an NCAA sport. This should be great for the sport as a whole and in the US specifically. However, one of the challenges this is going to face is that, IME, there is a shortage of development coaches at the youth and junior level and of coaches who are able to coach an elite program at the collegiate level. What I think this means for the US based coaches in the group is that there is going to be an increasing demand for coaches to work with youth and juniors at the local level and that now is the time to develop a quality program that is either youth and junior focused or at least welcomes these athletes. Further, an emphasis on draft legal racing for these athletes within the program and travel to draft legal races will be critical to helping these athletes work toward collegiate level triathlon. An additional challenge is that there programs will have to forge strong ties with school and club swim teams as many of the athletes that will make good prospects will be swimmers who can run. Curious as to other's thoughts on this, especially those closer to this than I am (alth I'm hopeful this will provide some scholarship opportunities for my athletes!) Shane |
| 2014-01-22 9:02 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Pro 6191 | Subject: RE: Exciting News! Originally posted by gsmacleod Very exciting to see that triathlon has been added as an NCAA sport. This should be great for the sport as a whole and in the US specifically. However, one of the challenges this is going to face is that, IME, there is a shortage of development coaches at the youth and junior level and of coaches who are able to coach an elite program at the collegiate level. What I think this means for the US based coaches in the group is that there is going to be an increasing demand for coaches to work with youth and juniors at the local level and that now is the time to develop a quality program that is either youth and junior focused or at least welcomes these athletes. Further, an emphasis on draft legal racing for these athletes within the program and travel to draft legal races will be critical to helping these athletes work toward collegiate level triathlon. An additional challenge is that there programs will have to forge strong ties with school and club swim teams as many of the athletes that will make good prospects will be swimmers who can run. Curious as to other's thoughts on this, especially those closer to this than I am (alth I'm hopeful this will provide some scholarship opportunities for my athletes!) Shane Hopefully USAT follows this up by offering their Youth and Junior Certification courses more than 3x/year... I know that USAT education isn't the stamp of a good coach, but these seminars, like the USAT Level I Cert, lay the groundwork for further education, provide networking with other coaches, and leave people with solid resources. I'd LOVE to get involved in this, especially at the start. |
| 2014-01-23 7:18 AM in reply to: ratherbeswimming |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Exciting News! Originally posted by ratherbeswimming Hopefully USAT follows this up by offering their Youth and Junior Certification courses more than 3x/year... I know that USAT education isn't the stamp of a good coach, but these seminars, like the USAT Level I Cert, lay the groundwork for further education, provide networking with other coaches, and leave people with solid resources. I'd LOVE to get involved in this, especially at the start. IMO this is where coaching education misses the mark when it becomes a means to generate revenue instead of with the goal of developing highly competent coaches. Like you say, coach education shouldn't be everything but coach education should set the stage to encourage coaches to be able to support the development of the sport. We certainly don't need all coaches to be able to work with elite athletes at the ITU, national or, now, collegiate level however all coaches should feel that they have the skill to work with youth and junior athletes at a developmental setting at a local level. Instead of preparing coaches to work with youth and juniors, introducing them to the sport and helping prepare them for the next level, coach education seems to have become fixated on establishing a coaching business and how to work with age groupers at a distance. Now, I certainly have no issues with working with age groupers and having a coaching business, however, I don't thing the goal of coach education should be to tell those taking the courses, here's how to make money. Instead, the message should be here's how we are going to grow this sport and you are an integral part of that and supporting and encourage coaches to become involved with developmental programs. Shane |
| 2014-01-23 12:08 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: Exciting News! Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by ratherbeswimming Hopefully USAT follows this up by offering their Youth and Junior Certification courses more than 3x/year... I know that USAT education isn't the stamp of a good coach, but these seminars, like the USAT Level I Cert, lay the groundwork for further education, provide networking with other coaches, and leave people with solid resources. I'd LOVE to get involved in this, especially at the start. IMO this is where coaching education misses the mark when it becomes a means to generate revenue instead of with the goal of developing highly competent coaches. Like you say, coach education shouldn't be everything but coach education should set the stage to encourage coaches to be able to support the development of the sport. We certainly don't need all coaches to be able to work with elite athletes at the ITU, national or, now, collegiate level however all coaches should feel that they have the skill to work with youth and junior athletes at a developmental setting at a local level. Instead of preparing coaches to work with youth and juniors, introducing them to the sport and helping prepare them for the next level, coach education seems to have become fixated on establishing a coaching business and how to work with age groupers at a distance. Now, I certainly have no issues with working with age groupers and having a coaching business, however, I don't thing the goal of coach education should be to tell those taking the courses, here's how to make money. Instead, the message should be here's how we are going to grow this sport and you are an integral part of that and supporting and encourage coaches to become involved with developmental programs. Shane Thanks for the warm welcome, Shane. This topic is one that I am very interested in as my natural networks are currently embedded in both youth and collegiate triathlon. I have been the faculty advisor for our university's triathlon club for the past 6 years. We have about 145 members of which probably about 35 are very active in university club racing. A handful of our athletes have coaches, but most do not. I work fairly closely with a lot of our members but stop at the level of giving training advice and have very intentionally not crossed the line into coaching, primarily because of time commitment issues. I am planning on drawing down my administrative duties at the university over the next couple of years and would like to direct that time toward helping the team better structure their training. FWIW they are already a fairly competive group at the pointy end normally ranking in the top 20 nationally. This primarily due to the fact that we have a lot of swimmers on the team who would likely be varsity swimmers had they decided to attend any other university. Last summer I became informally connected to a local youth development club via friends who started the organization as well friends that have kids that participate. The team currently has over 100 kids that are active between 3 different locations state-wide, but the closest one to where I live (in town) is in the suburbs. There are currently about 25 of those team members that are local to me that would prefer an in-town option (and I believe that number would swell significantly if there were an in-town team) and I have been asked repeatedly to to take that on. I have been politely declining the request also due to time commitments, but is something that I could possibly entertain within the next year or so. I do plan on shadowing and assisting the teams coaches this coming season. |
| 2014-01-24 8:35 AM in reply to: TankBoy |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Exciting News! Originally posted by TankBoy Thanks for the warm welcome, Shane. This topic is one that I am very interested in as my natural networks are currently embedded in both youth and collegiate triathlon. I have been the faculty advisor for our university's triathlon club for the past 6 years. We have about 145 members of which probably about 35 are very active in university club racing. A handful of our athletes have coaches, but most do not. I work fairly closely with a lot of our members but stop at the level of giving training advice and have very intentionally not crossed the line into coaching, primarily because of time commitment issues. I am planning on drawing down my administrative duties at the university over the next couple of years and would like to direct that time toward helping the team better structure their training. FWIW they are already a fairly competive group at the pointy end normally ranking in the top 20 nationally. This primarily due to the fact that we have a lot of swimmers on the team who would likely be varsity swimmers had they decided to attend any other university. Last summer I became informally connected to a local youth development club via friends who started the organization as well friends that have kids that participate. The team currently has over 100 kids that are active between 3 different locations state-wide, but the closest one to where I live (in town) is in the suburbs. There are currently about 25 of those team members that are local to me that would prefer an in-town option (and I believe that number would swell significantly if there were an in-town team) and I have been asked repeatedly to to take that on. I have been politely declining the request also due to time commitments, but is something that I could possibly entertain within the next year or so. I do plan on shadowing and assisting the teams coaches this coming season. Rusty, That sounds like a fantastic opportunity for both you and the athletes - hopefully you are able to spend some time working with the coaches this season and feel confident enough to take things on in the future. If I can ever be of assistance, just let me know. Shane |
| 2014-01-24 8:37 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: Gear I've offered this to anyone on the power group that Marc and I have taken on and figured I would offer it here as well. If you are in need of some new training/racing clothing, you are more than welcome to purchase any of the ScotiaMultisport gear that I am offering this year. You can see this year's offerings on my website and if you wish to purchase anything, just let me know by the end of February. http://www.scotiamultisport.com/gear-2014/ Shane |
| 2014-01-27 12:43 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Gear We need to get more activity in this group! Question for everyone. When working with athletes on bike intervals how do you tell them to gauge their HR? I suggest the following: Short intervals: RPE Medium intervals: Max HR Long intervals: Avg HR. I also stress how HR delays for about 20-30 seconds, and it takes a certain amount of time for adaptations to occur. For example if you are writing out a Vo2 set and have the intervals set at 3 or 4 minutes, I always let them athlete know that no real training adaptation occurs for the first 60-90 seconds, then the "real" work of the interval starts. When athletes use power it is much easier to target these ranges with power ranges, rather then HR numbers, However, I hear athletes sometimes say that at x interval they couldn't get their power up. I always tell them to ride within a specific % of their target power for those intervals, once they cannot reach those numbers, they cannot make the training adaptations correctly and the interval becomes more or less ineffective. However, I sometimes this that can be a good mental training aspect within the session. Push their body to the point they can't reach the numbers then continue and see how they mentally handle it. |
| 2014-01-29 1:36 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Pro 6191 | Subject: RE: Gear Originally posted by bcagle25 We need to get more activity in this group! Question for everyone. When working with athletes on bike intervals how do you tell them to gauge their HR? I suggest the following: Short intervals: RPE Medium intervals: Max HR Long intervals: Avg HR. I also stress how HR delays for about 20-30 seconds, and it takes a certain amount of time for adaptations to occur. For example if you are writing out a Vo2 set and have the intervals set at 3 or 4 minutes, I always let them athlete know that no real training adaptation occurs for the first 60-90 seconds, then the "real" work of the interval starts. When athletes use power it is much easier to target these ranges with power ranges, rather then HR numbers, However, I hear athletes sometimes say that at x interval they couldn't get their power up. I always tell them to ride within a specific % of their target power for those intervals, once they cannot reach those numbers, they cannot make the training adaptations correctly and the interval becomes more or less ineffective. However, I sometimes this that can be a good mental training aspect within the session. Push their body to the point they can't reach the numbers then continue and see how they mentally handle it. Those are good suggestions! I took notes I've got an athlete who likes to do his DVDs if he's inside - so I've got a spreadsheet of what he owns and what the focus of the workout is. I recommend that if you've got a Spinervals or Sufferfest fan. |
| 2014-01-29 1:41 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Shane's (gsmacleod) Coaching Mentor Group - Open Hi all. I have been "helping" more and more friends and other triathletes who want to train for things, create plans, want feedback on their current workouts and programs, things of that nature. While I'm not coaching anyone, I was wondering if there was room for me to kibitz/participate in this mentor group? One day (far in the future) I do want to be a coach, but at the moment I thought this might be a good opportunity to learn a bit. If its ok for me to join Shane, I will post my bio later when I get home. Thanks! |
| 2014-01-29 1:51 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Shane's (gsmacleod) Coaching Mentor Group - Open |
| 2014-01-29 1:59 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Gear Ben, I missed your post with exams going on this week - sorry about the delay in responding. Here's how I approach things with the bike (assuming no power meter): Short intervals - RPE (generally hard or all out - also used with power in combination with a power floor) Medium intervals (assuming targeting FTP) - either that HR is building throughout and starting to level off around LTHR, especially later in the workout) or RPE where if they feel they could maintain the effort for another five - ten minutes feels doable or comfortably hard Long intervals (assuming targeting tempo/sweet spot) - HR increases steadily for ten minutes or so then levels off below LTHR or RPE that feels doable for another 30 minutes or moderate Shane |
| 2014-01-30 7:47 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Shane's (gsmacleod) Coaching Mentor Group - Open NAME: dmiller5/David Miller (creative I know) STORY: I am a 24 years old engineer living in Maryland. I will be racing age 25 in 2014, and did my first tri when I was 20. Joined my university's tri club when i was a senior and began to learn how to properly train and prepare. After I graduated I trained and race an IM, and also decided to volunteer to be the coach of UMD tri club because they didn't have one. It was a great experience and I learned alot, but realized that i had much more to learn before I really had any business helping others, even newbies. Last year I decided to get serious an focus on short course. I started working with a coach that I met on a group ride, who has become something of a mentor to me. He teaches a masters for triathletes class which has been revolutionary for my swimming; absolutely dropping minutes and learning as much as I can. I started getting "official" coaching from a different coach in September, so we will see how that goes. A big reason I wanted to work with a coach was to learn what he will provide, and another approach to training. FAMILY STATUS: dating an amazing ultrarunner/triathlete CURRENT TRAINING: Currently just building consistency, and really trying to dial in my swim form. THIS YEAR'S RACES: In 2013 I raced primarily in the Maryland Triathlon Series by setup events (5th overall), and went to sprint nationals. 2014 RACES: Will race the MTS series again, but really peaking for Sprint Nationals and Sprint Worlds. WHAT WILL MAKE ME A GOOD MENTEE: I'm young and not ingrained in my ways yet. I have a huge appetite for information and data. I care more about learning what is the correct way to do things than being "right." I started out as a BOP swimmer, MOP triathlete, and have progressed to a point that is pretty quick for an AGer, Won my AG at almost all of my races last year, and had a 4th and a 5th overall. Starting from "the bottom" has shown me what works and what doesn't work, and I am able to take information, apply it to my training, and understand what I have gained from it. I feel as though this process is essential to becoming a good coach. I really hope to learn even more this year, and progress towards my eventual goal of being able to coach and advise others in the sport of triathlon, as this is something i really enjoy. Thanks for letting me join and I look forward to learning from everyone, and contributing what I can! |
| 2014-01-31 10:33 AM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 4675 Wisconsin near the Twin Cities metro | Subject: RE: Gear Originally posted by bcagle25 We need to get more activity in this group! Question for everyone. When working with athletes on bike intervals how do you tell them to gauge their HR? I suggest the following: Short intervals: RPE Medium intervals: Max HR Long intervals: Avg HR. I also stress how HR delays for about 20-30 seconds, and it takes a certain amount of time for adaptations to occur. For example if you are writing out a Vo2 set and have the intervals set at 3 or 4 minutes, I always let them athlete know that no real training adaptation occurs for the first 60-90 seconds, then the "real" work of the interval starts. When athletes use power it is much easier to target these ranges with power ranges, rather then HR numbers, However, I hear athletes sometimes say that at x interval they couldn't get their power up. I always tell them to ride within a specific % of their target power for those intervals, once they cannot reach those numbers, they cannot make the training adaptations correctly and the interval becomes more or less ineffective. However, I sometimes this that can be a good mental training aspect within the session. Push their body to the point they can't reach the numbers then continue and see how they mentally handle it. Not a big deal, but you're using the term "training adaptation" a little differently than I would. I tend to think of training adaptation as those physiological changes that take place 6-8 weeks after focused work on a particular system. What occurs with HR within 60-90 seconds of starting an individual session I would describe more as a heart rate response, not an "adaptation". Maybe I'm just splitting hairs. Edited by Birkierunner 2014-01-31 10:38 AM |
| 2014-01-31 6:55 PM in reply to: Birkierunner |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Gear Originally posted by Birkierunner Originally posted by bcagle25 We need to get more activity in this group! Question for everyone. When working with athletes on bike intervals how do you tell them to gauge their HR? I suggest the following: Short intervals: RPE Medium intervals: Max HR Long intervals: Avg HR. I also stress how HR delays for about 20-30 seconds, and it takes a certain amount of time for adaptations to occur. For example if you are writing out a Vo2 set and have the intervals set at 3 or 4 minutes, I always let them athlete know that no real training adaptation occurs for the first 60-90 seconds, then the "real" work of the interval starts. When athletes use power it is much easier to target these ranges with power ranges, rather then HR numbers, However, I hear athletes sometimes say that at x interval they couldn't get their power up. I always tell them to ride within a specific % of their target power for those intervals, once they cannot reach those numbers, they cannot make the training adaptations correctly and the interval becomes more or less ineffective. However, I sometimes this that can be a good mental training aspect within the session. Push their body to the point they can't reach the numbers then continue and see how they mentally handle it. Not a big deal, but you're using the term "training adaptation" a little differently than I would. I tend to think of training adaptation as those physiological changes that take place 6-8 weeks after focused work on a particular system. What occurs with HR within 60-90 seconds of starting an individual session I would describe more as a heart rate response, not an "adaptation". Maybe I'm just splitting hairs. Hmmmm.....you could be right that it is misleading in that way that you described. And yes, you are right it is a heart rate response, that I will agree with. But I guess to put it another way. You cannot do a Vo2 max interval for 30 seconds and get a benefit as it is structured to be, 30 seconds is not long enough to stimulate the correct systems long enough to make that stimulus (adaption) I guess if that makes more sense? |
| 2014-02-04 7:10 AM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: Getting Started All right - just finished with our exams and now I should have a bit more time to sit down and hopefully guide and spur discussion. My plan going forward is going to be to throw out an idea at the beginning of every week and then we can talk about what we do, what we would like to do, questions we have, etc. For this week, let's look at getting started with an athlete; I will have them complete an athlete profile (attached). I started with a profile similar to this when I started working with triathletes and have added some elements to it as I've gone. I don't expect athletes to complete everything and tell them to leave anything blank that doesn't apply but wanted to be able to gather as much info as possible. In addition, I will ask athletes for training logs if they have them so that I review what they've been doing in more detail. What do you do with your athletes? Shane Attachments ---------------- Athlete Profile.doc (129KB - 48 downloads) |
|
|
|
|
| Birkierunner's (Jim Kelley) General + Long Course Group (OPEN) Pages: 1 ... 14 15 16 17 | ||
| Triguys Tri Team (all levels welcome) - CLOSED SORRY Pages: 1 ... 5 6 7 8 | ||
| Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED Pages: 1 ... 72 73 74 75 | ||
| |||
 |
| ||||
|
| |||
|
| |||
|
|
View profile
Add to friends
Go to training log
Go to race log
Send a message
View album
CONNECT WITH FACEBOOK