SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! (Page 32)

Yeah...I was pretty much following Yanti all day last year at work...LOL.

Keep the electronics but just cover the computer screen with a picture that makes you smile.  It won't hurt to have the data later.

Got a late start and squeezed in the first 20' at 270 feeling okay.  The second one at 280 would have been brutal if I had the time to get it in...

I attempted (and failed miserably) a 20' power test today and I'm looking for some advice.

I've already talked with Marc about it a little and he thinks that maybe it just wasn't my day and that I should take a day off and try again.  I'm considering trying it again on Saturday, but these tests just hurt so much, it's hard to think about putting myself through it again.

I've been participating in Marc and Shane's Power Mentor Group.  We tested in early January and I did 200W for 20'.  I wasn't expecting a ton of improvement, but I figured I could do at least 200W again.  I made it 16', with my power steadily dropping from 200W down to 194W before I threw the towel in.  It's really disappointing to feel like the last six weeks of structured training has been for nothing....have made my performance actually decrease.

So my question for those of you who have trained with power for a while: is it detrimental to have your FTP set too high and do workouts based on it?  I don't feel like I'm over training....and was able to hit / exceed power targets in Shane's workouts for the last six weeks.  But somehow I seem to not be improving (potentially even getting worse).  I'm wondering if working off a too high FTP is actually counter productive.

I know running too fast of paces tends not to yield optimal results, but I think that's more because of injury potential....not sure though. 

Just trying to figure out why I'm not improving....and figure out a way to stop myself from derailing completely.  Serious hit to my confidence for St. George coming up shortly (was already feeling worried....this did NOT help!).

Nicole, I suspect you just had a bad day.  If you were working off too high of an FTP you would likely have failed on at least some of the workouts Shane gave you and it doesn't seem like that was the case.

I agree with Marc, take a day off and try again.

I agree with Arend - just wasn't your day.  You are certainly not the first, or the last, person to blow up during a test.  I've had this happen before, and speaking from personal experience a bad test, while unsettling, is certainly not an indication of your current fitness/power levels. 

I've blown up spectacularly in tests because of poor pacing in the past (my first is laughable!).  I guess I was incredibly surprised to have failed when I thought my FTP was fairly dialed in. 

Shane's workouts have been challenging, but none were so hard that I couldn't get through them.  So I guess I was really surprised to have struggled so much.  Hopefully it really was just an off day.  My house is much warmer right now than it was in January, but it was my legs (not HR) that would not let me continue.  So I suspect heat is less of an issue than that it was an off day.

Also came off a high volume (for me) week last week, so I think my legs are still probably fatigued.  Doesn't change the fact that it's disappointing....but hopefully I'll have some better luck on Saturday.

Also on the off day bandwagon, and yeah I get that would suck to have to try again.   But I seriously doubt you've suffered a loss in fitness during the last 6 weeks.

I got out for a 4.5 mile run this am, decided to give Hokas a try again given the foot issue.   Pretty comfortable in the bondi 3s, but oddly I think i need a size down from my Saucony size.  Normally you hear people sizing up.

Also as I was picking up my BMC last night (from having the saweeet tri rig omega brake installed) got to talking about road frames.   LBS has a nice Scott Foil, and I've been looking for a new roadie, and I got my little bonus from work, so.....  LBS owner is an ex pro and local hammerer, he is hot on the Foil.  It would be a Foil 10 w/ ultegra.   Anyone have experience with that?

I have no experience with that but.......

.

.

NEW BIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pics or it didn't happen.

Funny you guys mention the foil. 

My teammate is a pro runner and sponsored by Scott and he posted a pic of the bike the gave him and I was kind of curious about Scott bikes myself, and specifically the foil. I feel like I don't see them much but then again, I might just not be looking. I am sure I will see them all the time now.

Nicole...x5 on it not being your day.  20' tests require you to be pretty darn close to well rested and in peak form for it to give you the results you expect.  If we could bang out 20' tests any day of the week, they wouldn't be a good representation of our max power for one hour.  The workouts Marc and Shane are giving you are not easy.  They could easily have drained you when you also throw in whatever other training you might be doing.

From my personal experience, as much as I ride, I've had my fair share of bad power days.  Not just when testing, but just during hard group rides where I get dropped like nobody's business.  Sometimes so bad that the guys I ride with ask what's wrong with me...LOL.  Usually I can look back at my logs and pinpoint the reason (big training load).  Or maybe it was just during a week where I wasn't getting good sleep, maybe I was doing a lot of non training activity on my feet, or maybe I was sick.

If I had to bet money, my guess is that if you approach your next test reasonably rested, you'll blow 200w out of the water.  My bet is 210 or higher.  

I absolutely would not have tested again after only six weeks, but I'm taking part in Marc and Shane's Power Mentor Group, and this was testing week, so I went for it.  Honestly, I suspect he set this up more for people whose first (or first in a while) power test was in January and may not have paced it well.  People in there are coming out with crazy numbers like +45W on a 5' power test.  I highly doubt one can legitimately make those kinds of gains in six weeks, and that it's more about learning how to pace and how to be willing to hurt.  

But for someone like me whose FTP is fairly dialed in and has done a lot of riding, gains are going to come slowly.  Maybe today wasn't my day....maybe the fact that I've just recently started running again in the past few weeks after taking some time off affects me more than I give it credit for.

I've done a lot of thinking today and I realized that you can't PR every race, so why should I expect to PR every 20' power test?  Doesn't seem logical, so I'm going to stop stressing about it, continue with my SG build, and test again when I feel like I need to. 

Nicole, is Shane looking at your execution of the test? Hope I'm looking at the right thing here. I see you doing it to Rubber Glove? The step up section seems fine. I like working it that way too. The cadence section is funny though. Trainer Road has 4 x 1' @100% and cadence should be 110 or more. You're actually going up around 115% for effort on these. Sufferfest itself only has these at 4/10 which is *about* 70% or so the way I look at it. I guess some people like going up that high before, but I don't. I might break FTP before, but not that that high and not for that long. I've also started the test closer to FTP than you have, by actual watts, not just percent. Holding that the first few minutes and then start working it up after that. Getting past the anaerobic/aerobic changeover.

Don't think it's your imagination. Haven't see where they have as much of a following, though they can make good bikes. Hadn't heard good things about the Plasma 2, but the Plasma 3 is rather fast. Kienle, Marino and McKenzie are all on it. I think Corbin moved to Trek before that one came out. Not familiar that with their road bikes.

I've never ridden one, but always liked the aesthetics of the Scott bikes.

Had a 45min 1 on 1 coached swim session last night.  I think there was more talking than there was swimming, but it was all about the things she noted needed improvement/refinement in my stroke.  After the initial warm up she said what I expected - good looking stroke, just needs some refinement.  I was hoping for, but not expecting, a magic bullet of "you're doing this one thing horribly wrong, and if we fix it you'll gain some speed" - it was nice to dream.

So, I need to work on my arms being wider at entry - much wider apparently, need to work on a high elbow during recovery (I swing my arm wide at the moment and then bring the hand inside), need to finish my pull, but the catch looks decent.  I also have a tendency to snake my lower body through the water, and thta needs to be worked on. 

I'll incorporate drills over the next few weeks and then see about scheduling another session with her.  All and all it was valuable, but it also highlighted that having someone work on your stroke would be something that needs to happen on a regular basis to consistently tweak and refine the stroke and make sure the expected changes are taking place.

I don't know....I think there are too many people testing for him to really analyze each of the tests.  He also provided his own version of a 20 minute test, but I decided to go with the Rubber Glove version so I had something to watch in the background.  I like the stepped warm-up.  For the 4 x 1' intervals, my rationale for going over my 20' power target was in hopes that it would make the 20' power feel easy (at least for the first part of the test).  I've done that before in the past and had success with it, so I tend to think that's not what's contributing to the recent botched test.

Shane had suggested looking at our best recent 20' power, 10' power, and 5' power (other than the 5' MP test) to get an idea of where to start.  So that's how I chose where to start, but it does make sense to start at/below threshold and working up after getting past the anaerobic/aerobic change over.  I'm still mulling over the idea of doing the 20' test again.  If I do, it won't be this weekend, but maybe next weekend....maybe take an easier week this week, bring my TSB to a bit less negative, and try again. 

Or I may just assume my FTP hasn't changed (which is likely....six weeks of training seems unlikely to bring about any major/real/measurable changes) and continue with it where it is for the next nine weeks till SG.

Very cool that you were able to set that up!

I totally understand hoping for finding something major that would result in a huge increase when you fix it!  My pulling is so, so much slower than my swimming.  I've always used paddles with both wrist and finger straps, so I decided to pull the wrist straps off and see if there was a huge fundamental flaw in my stroke.  I finished my set (this was maybe a month ago) and the masters coach asked me how it was.  I responded, "Well, the good news is that it really didn't seem any different than pulling with the wrist straps on.  The bad news, of course, is that my pulling still sucks and I don't know how to fix it!"

I talked to the same coach today and he thinks I need to work on my rotation in the water.  Sounds like it's an issue with my swimming as well, but becomes even more noticeable with a pull buoy.

I think you can see some adaptations in the 6 week period.  If you look at Marc, he saw an increase of ~5% in his 5min power, and we'll have to see how his 20min test goes.  I agree that folks who have a strong background + had a solid first set of tests are not going to match the massive numbers some people are posting, but I still think you'll see some increase based on the workouts of the past 6 weeks.  Just my 2 cents.

Funny that - strap on a pull buoy and I'm a happy camper and can swim all day long at (for me) a decent pace.  However, when I used a pull buoy last night the coach said that it accentuated the sway I have in my lower half, so I really need to focus more on trying to reduce that.  Very short swim on lunch trying to do some of the drills / swim / drills to keep it fresh what I got out of the lesson last night.

After almost 2 full weeks, I've finally got my road bike up and running again.  I had to change my bottom bracket bearings and had to wait to borrow the bearing press tool, then realized later that my cable guides also needed to be replaced so I had to wait for that part to come in.  I had been commuting on my tri bike during that time and hated it.  Well...still better than not riding, but just made me appreciate my road bike that much more.  

I'm happy with 5 watts in that kind of timeframe. And Nicole wasn't exactly down at the bottom of the power to weight profiling if I remember right. Not every type of improvement will show up as a big increase in FTP. Some may simply be creating more room to grow easier later on. Have you noticed improvement in any type(s) of workouts executed? I've been working on over threshold in much of the same time period. Can't tell if FTP has gone up in that time, but I've generally been able to perform those workouts better now than a few months ago. In a few more weeks I'll likely have a better idea of where things are as I shift things around again. Harder for me to guess FTP from the shorter, higher effort intervals. I'll still see things like HR staying really low so late in a workout for a given power on those big rides I'm doing.