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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by TankBoy Originally posted by ChrisM Originally posted by axteraa Hmmmm, I have an optional 25 x 100 kick pool workout on my training plan this week.... OK, I gotta ask.... is there something specific that you are working on? That doesn't sound like a "shane" workout..... I think it was inspired by a workout TJ posted in the "Swimming Arms or Legs?" thread.... Yup. I actually have another workout listed but in the pre-workout notes it says "Optional - 25x100 kick". No doubt a result of a comment I made in that thread. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by TankBoy Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by TankBoy I have been meaning to reach out to you to see if you could help me with a little aero testing on the bike - would you be interested in that? I would be happy to share everything with the group. Of course!!! I will make an effort to try and follow, but never hesitate to PM or email me. Great - thanks Marc! I believe I have been able to wring a whole lot of watts out of my current setup, position. and equipment. The one thing I would like to check is my wheel/tire setup. I am racing on a set of Enve Smart System 6.7 carbon clinchers with Conti GP4000s II tires and Vittoria latex tubes.Based on a conversation between my LBS and an engineer at Enve, I a running 25s. Their feeling is that even the setup is slightly less aero, the lower Crr (and comfort) would make up for the slight aero deficit. The setup seems to be very fast, and they do roll like butter. As I am sure you know, Enve only sells their wheels as a pair, or "System." in their setup the front wheel is actually wider than the rear, and as a system they help create a more continuous airfoil from the front to back of the bicycle. I don't know how legit their claim is, but it is their thing. The front width is 26mm, the rear is 24. with the 25s the front is nice and round, but also flush and inline with the face of the wheel. the rear is also round, but slightly "light bulbed" from the faces of the wheel. So I am wondering what is faster: A) Setup as-is with 25s front and back Do you think that is even testable with a power meter? If so, what kind of protocol would you set up to test it? In theory this is testable. In practice, I suspect there will be so little difference that it will be hard to figure things out. On a velodrome track, with 0 wind, it would be more accurate. The protocol would do, if I had the right venue (flat, no wind), would be something like do something like 4km at 120watts measure time, do 4km at 150 watts measure time, do 4km at 180 watts measure.....keep on going to say 270 watts You then can get crr and cda separately. I would need to pull out the formulas to do this, but basically you plot resistive force against velocity ^2. Slope allows to calculate cda, intercept crr. This is the beauty of this test protocol. this is the theory. Do it with a little wind and things become less accurate, so outside a velodrome, I suspect you will get skewed numbers Let me know if you want to expand the how to get the crr, cda with the plot at various power levels. |
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Member![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() so first race on sunday..what should or shouldn't be eating leading up to the race |
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![]() Originally posted by Divemedic so first race on sunday..what should or shouldn't be eating leading up to the race I just eat normally. |
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Elite![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Marc - nice to see you posting in the group again. You did a great job running the power training group. Hope you start to figure out some of the injuries. With 8 weeks to go for Muskoka and a lousy season of training I finally strung together a reasonable week - now I just need to manage 7 more of those! Key for me his going to be hitting the key workouts as much as possible. |
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Team!! I've been on a bit of a hiatus from BT. Successfully finished R1 and no in house call until next June!! ![]() Signed myself up for the Victoria marathon in Oct so Shane has me building back up! Last month struggled through Alcatraz and met Chris down in San Fran! It was an kicking to get back in gear. PS: I would totally be up for 25x100k. Maybe I'll interview out east this fall for ER and we can have a kick workout Arend? Lol |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by TankBoy In theory this is testable. In practice, I suspect there will be so little difference that it will be hard to figure things out. On a velodrome track, with 0 wind, it would be more accurate. The protocol would do, if I had the right venue (flat, no wind), would be something like do something like 4km at 120watts measure time, do 4km at 150 watts measure time, do 4km at 180 watts measure.....keep on going to say 270 watts You then can get crr and cda separately. I would need to pull out the formulas to do this, but basically you plot resistive force against velocity ^2. Slope allows to calculate cda, intercept crr. This is the beauty of this test protocol. this is the theory. Do it with a little wind and things become less accurate, so outside a velodrome, I suspect you will get skewed numbers Let me know if you want to expand the how to get the crr, cda with the plot at various power levels. Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by TankBoy I have been meaning to reach out to you to see if you could help me with a little aero testing on the bike - would you be interested in that? I would be happy to share everything with the group. Of course!!! I will make an effort to try and follow, but never hesitate to PM or email me. Great - thanks Marc! I believe I have been able to wring a whole lot of watts out of my current setup, position. and equipment. The one thing I would like to check is my wheel/tire setup. I am racing on a set of Enve Smart System 6.7 carbon clinchers with Conti GP4000s II tires and Vittoria latex tubes.Based on a conversation between my LBS and an engineer at Enve, I a running 25s. Their feeling is that even the setup is slightly less aero, the lower Crr (and comfort) would make up for the slight aero deficit. The setup seems to be very fast, and they do roll like butter. As I am sure you know, Enve only sells their wheels as a pair, or "System." in their setup the front wheel is actually wider than the rear, and as a system they help create a more continuous airfoil from the front to back of the bicycle. I don't know how legit their claim is, but it is their thing. The front width is 26mm, the rear is 24. with the 25s the front is nice and round, but also flush and inline with the face of the wheel. the rear is also round, but slightly "light bulbed" from the faces of the wheel. So I am wondering what is faster: A) Setup as-is with 25s front and back Do you think that is even testable with a power meter? If so, what kind of protocol would you set up to test it? Yeah I forgot about the ramp-up. I used to have an excel spreadsheet for the chung method where you could plug in several rides... I'll see if I can find it. If the results are close, go with the better riding tire. Comfort makes no difference in testing drag, but for long distance it can be valuable. My back was getting very tight in my last race, which eventually made the run difficult. Would a softer ride have made a difference on that chip seal? Probably. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by mndymond Team!! I've been on a bit of a hiatus from BT. Successfully finished R1 and no in house call until next June!! ![]() Good to see you back! So you are in BC now? You should go volunteer at Whistler or something. |
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by spudone Originally posted by mndymond Team!! I've been on a bit of a hiatus from BT. Successfully finished R1 and no in house call until next June!! ![]() Good to see you back! So you are in BC now? You should go volunteer at Whistler or something. Ya, I live in Prince George and currently in Vancouver doing ER and just came from Nelson. I would volunteer for IMC but I am driving to Saskatooooon this weekend to do ER there next week. Been thinking about trying to make it to Challenge Penticton in Aug though to volunteer for medical....trying to figure out the "supervision" logistics of that being a resident. I'm on this wonky elective tour of western Canada right now. I've been mountain biking more than road...I feel that may change in the prairies. Lol |
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Elite![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by Divemedic so first race on sunday..what should or shouldn't be eating leading up to the race I just eat normally. Me too. Unless of course your normal food includes things that you know upset your guts (spicy mexican, Tim Horton's coffee.....) Good luck in your race! |
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Elite![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by mndymond Team!! I've been on a bit of a hiatus from BT. Successfully finished R1 and no in house call until next June!! ![]() Hey Melissa! Good to hear from you. PS: I would totally be up for 25x100k. Maybe I'll interview out east this fall for ER and we can have a kick workout Arend? Lol Ummm, I think I'm sick that day? |
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Member![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Thanks..I'm starting to think Imay have a mild gluten allergy. I get so bloated and gassy after eating certain foods, and after my misery yesterday (I am a paramedic and I had 15 mins to get something to eat and of course rotten ronnie's called my name never ever again!!) Even home cooked meals make me feel that way. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by marcagIn theory this is testable.In practice, I suspect there will be so little difference that it will be hard to figure things out. And Originally posted by spudone Marc and Mark - thanks - the above is almost exactly what the guy from Enve said as well. While they didn't have specific testing for it, he stated that this was their in-house belief as well. It is just difficult concept to market and sell. So, eventually I will test this out, but right now with only a few weeks before nationals I am just going to sit tight with what I've got.If the results are close, go with the better riding tire. Comfort makes no difference in testing drag, but for long distance it can be valuable. My back was getting very tight in my last race, which eventually made the run difficult. Would a softer ride have made a difference on that chip seal? Probably. as an aside it is funny to think about how much this thinking has changed. 20-odd years ago I raced on a Trek OCLV 5200 with Scott clip-ons and spinergy's with 19mm tires pumped up to 145psi. By today's thinking there is so much wrong with that I wouldn't know where to begin. But I sure do wish I could still turn those same bike splits!!! Like I said I am extremely happy with my current setup, and it seems plenty fast for my measly power numbers. FWIW, here is the set-up and position as I will race in Milwaukee. I hope I get a replacement bento lid by then! |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by mndymond Team!! I've been on a bit of a hiatus from BT. Successfully finished R1 and no in house call until next June!! ![]() Hey Melissa! Good to hear from you. PS: I would totally be up for 25x100k. Maybe I'll interview out east this fall for ER and we can have a kick workout Arend? Lol Ummm, I think I'm sick that day? Hey Melissa - welcome back - very glad to hear that you are doing well and getting your training back in gear somewhat. It can be tough to get your schedule back in order with all the work stuff you have going on. I know Shane will get you straight. Keep is posted! |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Fred DI don't think I could even fathom 25x100 kick despite the 'proven' benefits... I always get killed on the kick sets at masters, so today I decided to give TJ Fry's 2500 kick workout from the "Swimming, Arms or Legs?" Thread a whirl:400 Warm Up w/ fins and board 400 streamlined on back w/ fins 6x50 kick all-out, :30 sec rest 3x100 kick, :15 sec HARD 6x25 kick streamlined underwater w/fins (no breaths) 400 dolphin kick w/fins 200 dolphin kick, no fins 250 choice kick 12x100 free (build 3x 1-4) (1-4 free, 5-8 pull, 9-12 pull w/ paddles) 300 choice I went down to the dive well and knocked it out. I actually did not find this to be completely awful, and in fact it was kind of a pleasant distraction. Not sure if it was good for me, but I don't think it was bad. With all of the fin fork the kicking bit only took me an hour to complete, and by the end my "fast" 50 kick time had dropped by 8 seconds, I am guessing because of being loosened up well and ankles being much more flexible from the fin work. I really thought this would take me a lot longer, but I was still able to get 1500scy of swimming in. Since all of my current swimming is masters (4500ish 4x per week) I am already doing anywhere from 10~15% of my distance as kick of some sort. If I decide to incorporate even more kicking into the session I wonder if it is better to mix it in or do it all at once like today? in the end however I also agree with you Fred: I am not sure I could work up enough initiative to simply do 25x100 of just plain kicking..... |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by GoFaster Marc - nice to see you posting in the group again. You did a great job running the power training group. Hope you start to figure out some of the injuries. With 8 weeks to go for Muskoka and a lousy season of training I finally strung together a reasonable week - now I just need to manage 7 more of those! Key for me his going to be hitting the key workouts as much as possible. Neil - 8 weeks is a very solid block of time - hopefully you can carve out enough space to hit all of your key workouts. If you can somehow manage that I am betting you might surprise yourself - good luck! |
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Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by TankBoy Originally posted by ChrisM Originally posted by axteraa Hmmmm, I have an optional 25 x 100 kick pool workout on my training plan this week.... OK, I gotta ask.... is there something specific that you are working on? That doesn't sound like a "shane" workout..... I think it was inspired by a workout TJ posted in the "Swimming Arms or Legs?" thread.... Yup. I actually have another workout listed but in the pre-workout notes it says "Optional - 25x100 kick". No doubt a result of a comment I made in that thread. Pffffttttt… Everyone knows that if you're not doing 3k of kick you're not kicking enough. 2,500? Meh... |
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Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by Divemedic so first race on sunday..what should or shouldn't be eating leading up to the race I just eat normally. Me too. Unless of course your normal food includes things that you know upset your guts (spicy mexican, Tim Horton's coffee.....) Good luck in your race! Only thing we do differently is to have pancakes and eggs the night before a race. Any race - even if the kids have a 50yd swim sprint the next night! I've really liked that combination as it works its way "through" before an early race for me and Kim (very digestible stuff) and has enough protein to keep me full and carbs aplenty. Mostly, it's just become a fun family tradition as a pre-race day celebration (and I love wrapping the whole family into each other's pursuits in a fun way - with me at the griddle). So, um, ya'. Just eat normally. AND HAVE A GREAT TIME AT THE RACE!!!!! Matt ETA - just read down to your other post. Pancakes might not the best if you suspect celiac/gluten sensitivities… So, even more so, just eat normally. Edited by mcmanusclan5 2014-07-22 10:10 AM |
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Elite![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by TankBoy Originally posted by GoFaster Marc - nice to see you posting in the group again. You did a great job running the power training group. Hope you start to figure out some of the injuries. With 8 weeks to go for Muskoka and a lousy season of training I finally strung together a reasonable week - now I just need to manage 7 more of those! Key for me his going to be hitting the key workouts as much as possible. Neil - 8 weeks is a very solid block of time - hopefully you can carve out enough space to hit all of your key workouts. If you can somehow manage that I am betting you might surprise yourself - good luck! Thanks Rusty. The big positive is that I'm well rested going into this training block! The plan is to ease into it over the next 2 weeks or so before training piles on, I'm just not quite sure where to draw the line in terms of time or volume. I think that one will be played by ear and see how I handle the changes. P.S. Nice setup, looks nice and clean - and most importantly, quick. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by Divemedic so first race on sunday..what should or shouldn't be eating leading up to the race I just eat normally. Me too. Unless of course your normal food includes things that you know upset your guts (spicy mexican, Tim Horton's coffee.....) Good luck in your race! Only thing we do differently is to have pancakes and eggs the night before a race. Any race - even if the kids have a 50yd swim sprint the next night! I've really liked that combination as it works its way "through" before an early race for me and Kim (very digestible stuff) and has enough protein to keep me full and carbs aplenty. Mostly, it's just become a fun family tradition as a pre-race day celebration (and I love wrapping the whole family into each other's pursuits in a fun way - with me at the griddle). So, um, ya'. Just eat normally. AND HAVE A GREAT TIME AT THE RACE!!!!! Matt ETA - just read down to your other post. Pancakes might not the best if you suspect celiac/gluten sensitivities… So, even more so, just eat normally. Matt - that is an awesome pre-race/family tradition! I actually do eat a little differently in the day or two leading up to a race, as well as the morning of. I actually tend to eat a little "junkier" than normal, and consume foods that are much higher on the glycemic index than usual: i.e.: I eat a lot more "white" carbs than "brown." Matt's pancake dinner would fit nicely. For example, I like pop tarts for breakfast before a race, which is WAAAAAAAAY out in left field for the way we normally eat. Our go-to pre-big-workout/race traditional meal is actually sushi: lots and lots of it, as I like a lot of protein too for some reason. This is what I have learned over lots and lots of racing works for me, but it might not work for you or anyone else. So Jeremy the right answer for this race is as others have said, just eat normally, and see what happens. If it seems like you have issues, then you diagnose and try something a little different the next time. The really fun part about this sport is that there are so many variables to be tweaked, and if you stick with it long enough you can try different things in small increments in both races and race simulations to see what works best for you. If you are doing it right, this is a very, very long game we are playing. One thing I can ASSURE you of however: Yellow Curried Chicken is a TERRIBLE pre-race meal, particularly before a HIM. Trust me, you don't want to know how I know that.... |
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Elite![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Race report is done. http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=520392 I'm curious what you all think I should have done on the bike. I had a great pacer to legally draft off and on the return leg my power was a bit below target but I'm not sure that passing and forcing me to work harder would have gained me that much. |
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Elite![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I love me a good feed of sushi! I've never had it pre-race though. I would be a bit leery of getting it from somewhere that I hadn't been before (assuming an out of town race) just in case. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by axteraa Race report is done. http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=520392 I'm curious what you all think I should have done on the bike. I had a great pacer to legally draft off and on the return leg my power was a bit below target but I'm not sure that passing and forcing me to work harder would have gained me that much. With something like a 20 watt drop, I probably would have gone for it. It's also a sprint where the answer is always go for it. For the pass, this is where a hard surge and the ability to recover while still going hard come in. Then the guy is less likely to hang with you for the tow. If you can't pull that off, then it may have been better to sit in, or at least go that bit easier until you can. (I'm so behind on all the race reports!) |
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![]() Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by axteraa Race report is done. http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=520392 I'm curious what you all think I should have done on the bike. I had a great pacer to legally draft off and on the return leg my power was a bit below target but I'm not sure that passing and forcing me to work harder would have gained me that much. With something like a 20 watt drop, I probably would have gone for it. It's also a sprint where the answer is always go for it. For the pass, this is where a hard surge and the ability to recover while still going hard come in. Then the guy is less likely to hang with you for the tow. If you can't pull that off, then it may have been better to sit in, or at least go that bit easier until you can. (I'm so behind on all the race reports!) Hard to know how much of the wattage drop was due to the (legal) draft or the downhill. I'm with Ben though |
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