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2014-03-19 7:51 PM
in reply to: hoffsquared

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Farmington, Connecticut
Subject: RE: Swim Question
Originally posted by hoffsquared

>

Gulp...Haven't done one in three years.




Melanie,

Seems to me that just this past week you posted about running a race you hadn't done before and yet you ended up on the podium, so this should be right up your alley!

Congrats on getting in.

Dave


2014-03-19 9:51 PM
in reply to: hoffsquared

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Regular
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East Wenatchee, Washington
Subject: RE: Swim Question
Originally posted by hoffsquared

"Congratulations. The MCM Lottery has been conducted and you have reason to celebrate as one of the officially registered participants in the 39th Marine Corps Marathon to be held on Sunday, October 26, 2014 in Arlington, VA.   Please keep the confirmation number included in this message as verification of your status. "

Gulp...Haven't done one in three years.




Very cool. I've heard that's a fabulous event. Hope you can do it!

Steve
2014-03-20 6:00 AM
in reply to: JREDFLY

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Official BT Coach
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Indianapolis, Indiana
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Subject: RE: Swim Question

Originally posted by JREDFLY

When I do the 5 strokes on one breath I don't feel the drop. I think the exhaling really helped this morning in the pool. THANKS!!! It seems like when I concentrate on one thing I lose the other 5 things that I should be thinking about for a good stroke (Reach for the wall, point toes, good rotation, brush thigh with hand, exhale, relax neck, don't turn head too much, kick, don't reach too deep, etc.). I am sure the rest of my stroke sucked today but at least with concentrating on my breathing I didn't feel as spent. I am up to to eight consecutive lengths (25 meters) without stopping with one minute rest between repeats and I am adding 2 lengths per week. I just have to remember this takes time, it is not going to happen overnight. I just have to put more time in the pool and I have been hitting it pretty good three time per week so I am pretty happy about that and will keep it going. Thanks again Scott for the tip!!!

Morning James,

Not feeling the drop when you go several strokes without breathing pretty well confirms this is a breathing issue.

Yes, swimming is highly technical in that you need to have proper stroke mechanics to truly become a proficient swimmer.  That said, I caution against 'over-thinking.'  You said, "It seems like when I concentrate on one thing I lose the other 5 things that I should be thinking about for a good stroke (Reach for the wallgood rotation, brush thigh with hand, don't reach too deep, point toes, kick, exhale, relax neck, don't turn head too much, etc.)."  If you look at the 9 items you listed, several of them are related to each other.  I changed the order of your list to group things together and put in bold 4 things that are directly related to each other (rotation), put in italic two things that are related (kicking), and the remaining normal text items are related to each other (breathing).  By my count, the nine things, just became three things, which is probably a bit easier to manage.

I would use my warm-up time to work on technique and get ready for the workout.  As you warm-up, focus on the various aspects of your stroke that you need to focus on.  Then, when you get to your actual workout, you can turn your focus to the workout.  If, during the workout, you note that a technique item is causing a problem during the next interval specifically address that problem, then return to your workout.  Remember that technique 'trumps' everything else.  Your workout is not going to suffer by dedicating one repetition during the workout to 'fixing' a technique flaw.

Yes, it takes time, but getting in the water three times a week will quickly begin to show dramatic results.  Keep it up!

2014-03-20 8:05 AM
in reply to: k9car363

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431
10010010010025
Hingham, MA
Subject: RE: Swim Question
Originally posted by k9car363

Originally posted by JREDFLY

When I do the 5 strokes on one breath I don't feel the drop. I think the exhaling really helped this morning in the pool. THANKS!!! It seems like when I concentrate on one thing I lose the other 5 things that I should be thinking about for a good stroke (Reach for the wall, point toes, good rotation, brush thigh with hand, exhale, relax neck, don't turn head too much, kick, don't reach too deep, etc.). I am sure the rest of my stroke sucked today but at least with concentrating on my breathing I didn't feel as spent. I am up to to eight consecutive lengths (25 meters) without stopping with one minute rest between repeats and I am adding 2 lengths per week. I just have to remember this takes time, it is not going to happen overnight. I just have to put more time in the pool and I have been hitting it pretty good three time per week so I am pretty happy about that and will keep it going. Thanks again Scott for the tip!!!

Morning James,

Not feeling the drop when you go several strokes without breathing pretty well confirms this is a breathing issue.

Yes, swimming is highly technical in that you need to have proper stroke mechanics to truly become a proficient swimmer.  That said, I caution against 'over-thinking.'  You said, "It seems like when I concentrate on one thing I lose the other 5 things that I should be thinking about for a good stroke (Reach for the wallgood rotation, brush thigh with hand, don't reach too deep, point toes, kick, exhale, relax neck, don't turn head too much, etc.)."  If you look at the 9 items you listed, several of them are related to each other.  I changed the order of your list to group things together and put in bold 4 things that are directly related to each other (rotation), put in italic two things that are related (kicking), and the remaining normal text items are related to each other (breathing).  By my count, the nine things, just became three things, which is probably a bit easier to manage.

I would use my warm-up time to work on technique and get ready for the workout.  As you warm-up, focus on the various aspects of your stroke that you need to focus on.  Then, when you get to your actual workout, you can turn your focus to the workout.  If, during the workout, you note that a technique item is causing a problem during the next interval specifically address that problem, then return to your workout.  Remember that technique 'trumps' everything else.  Your workout is not going to suffer by dedicating one repetition during the workout to 'fixing' a technique flaw.

Yes, it takes time, but getting in the water three times a week will quickly begin to show dramatic results.  Keep it up!




Thanks Scott, I think this advice is very timely because I was starting to add distance to my repeats at the expense of form and I have to stop that.

Thanks again!

James

2014-03-20 9:39 AM
in reply to: JREDFLY

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Regular
1126
100010025
East Wenatchee, Washington
Subject: RE: Trainer workout
We're getting closer to good weather, but my rides are still predominately indoors on the trainer...which get pretty stale. I tried this workout last night which was killer and the time moved pretty quickly as well.

It's basically a series of ladder intervals that run in order 6, 8, 10, 8, 6 minutes in length. Each interval has an easy 4 minute recovery period. The workout starts with a 20 minute warm up and ends with a 10 minute cool down.

What makes it challenging is the cadence is high, so the stress comes not from the resistance, but maintaining a pretty high cadence.

The goal for the first 6 minute interval is 110. The 8 minute interval cadence is 115. The 10 minute interval cadence is 115, with the last 2 minutes at 120. The 8 and 6 minute intervals then follow the same pattern, 115 cadence with the last two minutes at 120.

By the time I got done I was pushing high zone 4, and fairly high watts even though the resistance on the pedals was pretty low.

Like I said, simple, but a great workout.

Enjoy!

Steve
2014-03-20 4:31 PM
in reply to: lutzman

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Royal(PITA)
14270
50005000200020001001002525
West Chester, Ohio
Subject: RE: Trainer workout

It os over.  Mom died peacefully around 3 PM this afternoon.



2014-03-20 4:35 PM
in reply to: QueenZipp

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Expert
1007
1000
Missouri
Subject: RE: Trainer workout

Judi, I'm so sorry.  I'll be thinking about you and your family the next couple of days.

Janet

2014-03-20 8:07 PM
in reply to: QueenZipp

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Member
48
25
Connecticut
Subject: RE: Trainer workout
Very sorry Judi, keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.

Dave
2014-03-20 8:24 PM
in reply to: QueenZipp

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238
10010025
Farmington, Connecticut
Subject: RE: Trainer workout
So sorry to hear that, Judi. My condolences to you and your family.

Dave
2014-03-20 9:32 PM
in reply to: DJP_19

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Official BT Coach
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Indianapolis, Indiana
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Subject: RE: Trainer workout

Sorry Judi,

Condolences and prayers for you and your family.

2014-03-20 10:16 PM
in reply to: QueenZipp

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Regular
1126
100010025
East Wenatchee, Washington
Subject: RE: Trainer workout
Originally posted by QueenZipp

It os over.  Mom died peacefully around 3 PM this afternoon.




Sorry to hear it Judi. Deepest condolences.


2014-03-21 7:22 AM
in reply to: Dogpaddle

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Champion
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Bronze member
Subject: RE: Swim Question

Originally posted by Dogpaddle
Originally posted by hoffsquared

"Congratulations. The MCM Lottery has been conducted and you have reason to celebrate as one of the officially registered participants in the 39th Marine Corps Marathon to be held on Sunday, October 26, 2014 in Arlington, VA.   Please keep the confirmation number included in this message as verification of your status. "

Gulp...Haven't done one in three years.

Yeah!!!!!!!!! That's fantastic! You've got this!

Congratulations!!!! you have LOTS of time to train.

(I got the other e-mail )

2014-03-21 11:18 AM
in reply to: ceilidh

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Regular
186
100252525
Subject: judi
She is at the great big race in the sky. Sorry Judi. I cannot imagine losing My Mom.
2014-03-21 2:38 PM
in reply to: QueenZipp

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Champion
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Bronze member
Subject: RE: Trainer workout

Originally posted by QueenZipp

It os over.  Mom died peacefully around 3 PM this afternoon.

I am glad it was peacefully. You are in my thoughts, Judi

2014-03-22 9:09 AM
in reply to: QueenZipp

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Expert
1384
1000100100100252525
Charlottesville, Virginia
Subject: RE: Trainer workout
Originally posted by QueenZipp

It os over.  Mom died peacefully around 3 PM this afternoon.




Oh Judi... I'm so sorry for your loss. You will be in my thoughts and prayers as you celebrate her life.
2014-03-22 3:31 PM
in reply to: QueenZipp

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Expert
972
5001001001001002525
Falls Church
Subject: RE: Trainer workout

Judi - very sorry to hear this.  I'm sure she will be dearly missed.



2014-03-22 3:32 PM
in reply to: ceilidh

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Expert
972
5001001001001002525
Falls Church
Subject: RE: Swim Question

Originally posted by ceilidh

Originally posted by Dogpaddle
Originally posted by hoffsquared

Yeah!!!!!!!!! That's fantastic! You've got this!

Congratulations!!!! you have LOTS of time to train.

(I got the other e-mail )

Bummer...but I am glad they are now doing the lottery for this race.  Seems like a better way to handle registrations than having the race fill up in an hour or so.

2014-03-22 3:39 PM
in reply to: hoffsquared

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Expert
972
5001001001001002525
Falls Church
Subject: RE: Swim Question

I went to a TriMania expo today.  It was pretty good.  Lots of vendors.  Picked up some bike shorts and Newton's at a very good price.  Also lots and lots of freebies.  Some of the race organizers were giving away shirts and socks from prior races.  So I got something for each of my daughters (they like to wear my gear) and my husband. 

The seminars I sat in on were pretty good too.  One on exercises and foam rolling to stay injury free.  Another on swimming by Terry Laughlin (total immersion guy).  He was actually pretty good and talked about being streamlined and efficient rather than powering through a swim.  He said you should swim at your target pace as easily as possible so that you are too tired for the rest of the race.  Next was Danny Dreyer, author of ChiRunning.  I had him sign the book that I've had since about 2005.  Then Timothy O'Donnell and Mirinda Carfrae did a question and answer session with Bob Babbitt.

Now I am psyched to train and race!

2014-03-23 10:20 AM
in reply to: hoffsquared

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238
10010025
Farmington, Connecticut
Subject: RE: Swim Question
Gave back some ground this week, up 2lbs to 187.2 Not happy with myself there.

Weekly numbers are:

2lbs gained -20pts
303 workout min 10 pts
total: -10pts


Did my second indoor tri at the YMCA this morning: 650yd swim, 11 mile spin, 2.5 mile run. I had an uneven result this morning. Performed better in the swim, leaving the pool feeling pretty good, but the bike was mediocre for me. My legs never felt right. (maybe a seat adjustment issue?)
The run was a disappointment, since I planned to break 8:00/mile and ended up finishing at an 8:10 pace. I need to review my Saturday night and Sunday morning food choices, because I just felt like I "didn't have it" during the run.

Overall, I had a great time and met a bunch of folks in the tri club during the post race breakfast. I received invitations to join OWS and riding groups this spring, which should help with my learning curve in those two areas.

Hope everyone has a good week.

Dave
2014-03-23 10:56 AM
in reply to: hoffsquared

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Champion
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Bronze member
Subject: RE: Swim Question

Originally posted by hoffsquared

Originally posted by ceilidh

Originally posted by Dogpaddle
Originally posted by hoffsquared

Yeah!!!!!!!!! That's fantastic! You've got this!

Congratulations!!!! you have LOTS of time to train.

(I got the other e-mail )

Bummer...but I am glad they are now doing the lottery for this race.  Seems like a better way to handle registrations than having the race fill up in an hour or so.

I agree, the lottery is a better way. I am disappointed and relieved at the same time that I didn't get in.

2014-03-23 12:54 PM
in reply to: ceilidh

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Regular
186
100252525
Subject: challenge finale date ?
When does the challenge end ?
I got 14 point this week.



2014-03-23 1:14 PM
in reply to: dustytrails

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Expert
972
5001001001001002525
Falls Church
Subject: RE: challenge finale date ?

Weight = .5 lbs lost = 5 points

No weight gain = 5 points

Training = 313 minutes = 10 points

Total = 20 points.

2014-03-23 3:00 PM
in reply to: hoffsquared

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Regular
99
252525
Newport News
Subject: RE: challenge finale date ?
Weight .4 lb gain = -4 points
Training 599.8 minutes = 20 points
Net = 16 points

Two week to season opener in Smithfield, VA.
2014-03-23 3:36 PM
in reply to: 0

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Champion
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5000500020002000500100252525
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Subject: RE: challenge finale date ?

This was a so-so training week for me. The work week got away with me.

260 min training = 9

No gain = 5

2 lbs lost = 20

34 points.



Edited by ceilidh 2014-03-23 3:55 PM
2014-03-23 6:50 PM
in reply to: DJP_19

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Official BT Coach
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Indianapolis, Indiana
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Subject: RE: Swim Question

Originally posted by DJP_19

Did my second indoor tri at the YMCA this morning: 650yd swim, 11 mile spin, 2.5 mile run. I had an uneven result this morning. Performed better in the swim, leaving the pool feeling pretty good, but the bike was mediocre for me. My legs never felt right. (maybe a seat adjustment issue?) The run was a disappointment, since I planned to break 8:00/mile and ended up finishing at an 8:10 pace. I need to review my Saturday night and Sunday morning food choices, because I just felt like I "didn't have it" during the run. 

Dave

Hey Dave,

There is a saying, "You can't win a triathlon during the swim, but you can lose it during the swim."  What that statement refers to specifically is that you can use up too much energy in the water (reducing or depleting glycogen stores in the core and/or legs) and have little or nothing left for the bike and run.  You mentioned that you 'performed better in the swim.'  Then you said your legs never felt right on the bike and your run was less than you expected.  I am wondering what your swim splits were in relation to your training swim splits?  The cycling segment was only 11 miles so I think your seat adjustment would have had to be WAY, WAY off for that to have had a serious negative impact on the rest of your race. If the adjustment was just a little off, you likely would not have noticed it until well into the ride and it wouldn't have impacted you that adversely.  As an alternative thought, I don't think you hit a wall, however I question if you may have been 'running out of gas.'

For low intensity exercise, your body can store up to 90 minutes of glycogen, give or take.  However, it is possible to fully deplete your glycogen stores in as little as 10-20 minutes with high intensity exercise - the length of a 650 yard swim for a newer swimmer?.  Also, glycogen is a 'local resource.'  Meaning that the glycogen stored in muscle is used directly by that muscle during exercise, it cannot borrow glycogen from other resting muscles and glycogen cannot be replaced during exercise - when it's gone, it's gone.

A sprint triathlon (or near sprint in this case) is a short enough race that I think a pacing issue may be more the culprit for you feeling like you 'didn't have it' than food choices before the race.

Just my humble two cents.

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