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Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. (Page 33)
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 2014-01-22 2:58 PM in reply to: marcag |
 50  , Washington |  Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.Originally posted by marcag Just out of curiosity, where are people doing the training sessions ? Golden Cheetah ? Trainer Road ? A power meter and head unit ? I am using GC but with a computrainer you just press the go button and you don't even have to look at the screen. it forces you to a wattage. PerfPro w/Computrainer and upload to GC. Marc, do you also use RaceDay Apollo? If so, thoughts for tracking all 3 sports? |
| 2014-01-22 3:03 PM in reply to: Donto |
| Oakville | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by Donto GC, PC ANT+ mini stick and Garmin GSC10 spd/cad sensor. I need to get a power meter! I hear ya!! Wheelbuilder.com has a PowerTap special right now - $794 for the G3 hub laced to several wheel options. The aero cover is only $69 more. Trying to calculate how much my tax return will be this year and whether this is in the budget! |
| 2014-01-22 3:11 PM in reply to: marcag |
Veteran 341 Orangevale, CA | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag Just out of curiosity, where are people doing the training sessions ? Golden Cheetah ? Trainer Road ? A power meter and head unit ? I'm using Golden Cheetah with my PT. |
| 2014-01-22 3:34 PM in reply to: RandyP |
Extreme Veteran 5722  | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by RandyP Marc, do you also use RaceDay Apollo? If so, thoughts for tracking all 3 sports? I had used it a lot a while back, switched more to TP in the last 2 years but plan to try it again. They are very good at tracking 3 sports, but a little clunker to upload workouts I found I need to try it again with the ability to upload swim workouts directly from watch I also had a problem with my 910 alitmeter that would throw Raceday for a loop. It though I was climbing Everest so would give me lots of TSS points :-) The prediction capabilities were always very intriguing. I am going to give it another try I think |
| 2014-01-22 6:47 PM in reply to: marcag |
Member 258 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. I'm down with a nasty cold!! So bummed out. Trying to rest the last 2 days so I can get back on track quickly. I had a great 35 mile ride on Monday with my friend for her birthday, and that's my longest ride in quite a while. It felt great. I've also been using TR to do my workouts. I like the horizontal overlay feature, and it cues me that an interval is going to start with a sound, which I like, in case my TV show is distracting me. Jaime |
| 2014-01-22 7:42 PM in reply to: RunningJoke |
Elite 3779  Ontario | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. I'm using my 910XT with powertap, riding in GC, but have a Tacx Fortius trainer that I use with the Tacx TTS software. And to geek it out a little more I'm running dual screens so I can see TTS graphs at the same time as the GC Trainer screen. Feeling a lot better now, and hoping to bang out the 5min test tomorrow morning. |
| 2014-01-22 8:43 PM in reply to: marcag |
Veteran 341 Orangevale, CA | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Finished Week 3 Threshold 2 workout this morning. My legs were burning on the later 7:30 intervals. TSS score of 79 for the ride - Chris Attachments ---------------- croyston-btpower-wk3-thres2.FIT (66KB - 2 downloads) |
| 2014-01-22 9:49 PM in reply to: marcag |
Master 3888 Overland Park, KS | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag Just out of curiosity, where are people doing the training sessions ? Golden Cheetah ? Trainer Road ? A power meter and head unit ? I am using GC but with a computrainer you just press the go button and you don't even have to look at the screen. it forces you to a wattage. Low budget here. GC with virtual power from Garmin GSC-10/KK Road Machine. I have the laptop in front of me so just look at the Watts, speed and cadence. |
| 2014-01-23 5:40 AM in reply to: croyston |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by croyston Finished Week 3 Threshold 2 workout this morning. My legs were burning on the later 7:30 intervals. TSS score of 79 for the ride - Chris That's a solid workout. I would bet a lot of people, when not using a power meter and not following a specific workout would noodle around, get maybe 55TSS points in an hour and think they did a good workout. You will see much bigger improvements this way. I find a power meter allows you to "just get to the end" having been nice and even during the whole workout. |
| 2014-01-23 7:24 AM in reply to: marcag |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by RandyP Marc, do you also use RaceDay Apollo? If so, thoughts for tracking all 3 sports? I had used it a lot a while back, switched more to TP in the last 2 years but plan to try it again. They are very good at tracking 3 sports, but a little clunker to upload workouts I found I need to try it again with the ability to upload swim workouts directly from watch I also had a problem with my 910 alitmeter that would throw Raceday for a loop. It though I was climbing Everest so would give me lots of TSS points :-) The prediction capabilities were always very intriguing. I am going to give it another try I think I used Apollo pretty extensively for about a season and a half with a few athletes; I found that the entry of swim data was very cumbersome and I basically skipped the specific swim data but that the bike and run data entry was easy and the modelling was quite effective. With the athletes I was using it with, it was very effective at helping look at how an athlete would respond to training and it seemed to lead to more effective tapers as a result. I haven't been using it much recently mainly because I have athletes logging in TrainingPeaks and I can distill most of the same information out but I have considered switching over to Apollo (and may in the future, especially with the watches that record swimming). The other issue at the time was I only had a couple of athletes training with power and GPS's which meant that Apollo would only have been most effective for a couple of my athletes. Shane |
| 2014-01-23 7:38 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Looks like lots of solid workouts; great work everyone! Also glad to see some of those who were sick/injured on the mend and hopefully able to get started or pick things up as the case may be. Marc's overview of TSS is fantastic and it is a great measure of what you are doing in your workouts. While I did say that TSS isn't the only thing we should consider, it is typically quite valuable to look at the overall difficulty of a workout and your weekly training stress. Keep up the great work! Shane |
| 2014-01-23 7:53 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Well, I don't really know what to say about the 5min test this morning, I'm scratching my head about it. I set a PB with 303 watts, done after 2 months of minimal riding, and coming back after being sick for 3 weeks. HR was just ridiculous at an avg of 180 maxing out at 185 (180 is danger zone for me in normal circumstances) so my HR is still nto quite right. As a comparison I did a 5min test at the beginning of Dec and hit 300 watts with an avg HR of 171 and max of 176 - which corrleates much better with what I would expect to see. Either way, I'll take it. Now I have to bury myself for the 20min test in the next few days. Here's a quick pic from garmin. (5min.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 5min.JPG (47KB - 3 downloads) |
| 2014-01-23 9:14 AM in reply to: GoFaster |
| Oakville | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by GoFaster Well, I don't really know what to say about the 5min test this morning, I'm scratching my head about it. I set a PB with 303 watts, done after 2 months of minimal riding, and coming back after being sick for 3 weeks. HR was just ridiculous at an avg of 180 maxing out at 185 (180 is danger zone for me in normal circumstances) so my HR is still nto quite right. As a comparison I did a 5min test at the beginning of Dec and hit 300 watts with an avg HR of 171 and max of 176 - which corrleates much better with what I would expect to see. Either way, I'll take it. Now I have to bury myself for the 20min test in the next few days. Here's a quick pic from garmin. Well done!! Wait a minute... I think we're in the same AG? I've got some work to do! |
| 2014-01-23 9:59 AM in reply to: marcag |
| 92 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag Just out of curiosity, where are people doing the training sessions ? Golden Cheetah ? Trainer Road ? A power meter and head unit ? I am using GC but with a computrainer you just press the go button and you don't even have to look at the screen. it forces you to a wattage. I'm using Trainer Road and then just loading he file into GC, Garmin Connect and the BT Training log. Ron |
| 2014-01-23 10:06 AM in reply to: GoFaster |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by GoFaster Either way, I'll take it. Did you not read the memo on how to get a bigger CP ? Sheeesh Good job. Anxious to see the 20' |
| 2014-01-23 12:05 PM in reply to: marcag |
Veteran 1677 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag Just out of curiosity, where are people doing the training sessions ? Golden Cheetah ? Trainer Road ? A power meter and head unit ? I am using GC but with a computrainer you just press the go button and you don't even have to look at the screen. it forces you to a wattage. I'm using TrainerRoad and importing .tcx files into Golden Cheetah. I like the way you can set TR on the horizontal mode and watch something in the background....I'm not a huge music buff, so I need something else to distract me. I can't even count the number of tv shows I've watched while riding (on a side note, I just updated TR last night and it had to resync my nearly 700 trainer rides I've done since I started riding on it in November, 2012 -- I think I've spent too much time on that thing!). I'm flying out of town tomorrow morning, so I got up 30 minutes early (3:30am!!) to knock out the Sweet Spot ride for this week. Good workout....I think I'm starting to come around on these longer intervals. Will post my .tcx files for the week when I get back home. |
| 2014-01-23 1:50 PM in reply to: ligersandtions |
| 92 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Got in the Week 3 Threshold 2 today and all went well. File attached. Also, I was boring my wife yapping on about power (not really, she's a metric junkie as well, just not yet to power) and she asked an interesting question. Is biking like a lot of other sports where we could be genetic limited? For instance, is it possible that my genetics would prevent me fro being able to ever hold 300 watts for an Ironman? Or if I put in the same effort and time on the bike, could I be equal with a pro? Not that I want to put in the time and effort of a pro, I have a real life after all, just an example.  We all thought Lance had some magic biking genetics but it turned out to be magic juice. LOL Ron Attachments ---------------- Ron-2014-01-23-bt-power-week-3-thr-2-653021.tcx (1866KB - 3 downloads) |
| 2014-01-23 2:32 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by WaterRat Got in the Week 3 Threshold 2 today and all went well. File attached. Also, I was boring my wife yapping on about power (not really, she's a metric junkie as well, just not yet to power) and she asked an interesting question. Is biking like a lot of other sports where we could be genetic limited? For instance, is it possible that my genetics would prevent me fro being able to ever hold 300 watts for an Ironman? Or if I put in the same effort and time on the bike, could I be equal with a pro? Not that I want to put in the time and effort of a pro, I have a real life after all, just an example. We all thought Lance had some magic biking genetics but it turned out to be magic juice. LOL Ron As I understand it, there are a few factors that influence you ability to hold that 300watts for an Ironman a)Your VO2Max is the maximum volume of oxygen that can be utilized during maximal exercise b) The percent of that VO2max that you can maintain for a long period of time c) The efficiency at which you can generate power or run a certain pace, at that percent of VO2max I believe a) has a strong genetic component to it. You can raise your VO2max but genetics play a role here I believe b) is mostly trainable I am not sure about c. There are people with low Vo2max that generate large power because they are more "efficient". I believe efficiency may improve with hours of work. I do not know if there is a genetic component to this. So yes there is a large genetic component, however for us, I believe we have not hit the limit of what genetics has dealt us. Shane may be also able to shine some light on this...but I know he is working on a) b) and c) for us Edited by marcag 2014-01-23 2:43 PM |
| 2014-01-23 2:42 PM in reply to: 0 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by WaterRat Got in the Week 3 Threshold 2 today and all went well. File attached. Also, I was boring my wife yapping on about power (not really, she's a metric junkie as well, just not yet to power) and she asked an interesting question. Is biking like a lot of other sports where we could be genetic limited? For instance, is it possible that my genetics would prevent me fro being able to ever hold 300 watts for an Ironman? Or if I put in the same effort and time on the bike, could I be equal with a pro? Not that I want to put in the time and effort of a pro, I have a real life after all, just an example. We all thought Lance had some magic biking genetics but it turned out to be magic juice. LOL Ron Lance may have been on magic juice, but so was most of the peloton. Like it or not, he outperformed others who were also doping, and some of that was due to his training protocols, his team, but also his genetics. Everyone has genetic limiters, the ctach is that most of will never reach that level to figure out what they truly are. That said, some of us have a predisposition to generating more power, running faster, etc. Some would argue that training trumps all and anyone go put out x power or run at y speed if you train long enough and hard enough - it simply isn't the case in my opinion. Of course as I typed this Marc gave a much better explanation. Edited by GoFaster 2014-01-23 2:45 PM |
| 2014-01-23 6:46 PM in reply to: marcag |
Master 2094 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. I use a wired PT when I ride inside. I have a GCS-10 paired to Golden Cheetah that projects the data on a screen but I don't like to follow it that close because of the annoying power spikes. I upload the data from my LYC using the cradle. I also really like to follow a training video like Sufferfest or Spinnervals. I have attention issues that make it almost impossible for me to do intervals without the visual and audio cues I get from the videos. I also printed out the Sufferfest power scale based on my critical power so I know how many watts I need to hit for the prescribed effort level. I use a Powertap G3 for my long rides outside. I may get a wheel cover for the G3 or maybe a powertap disc for racing but odds are, I will just use Heart Rate during races. |
| 2014-01-23 6:52 PM in reply to: 0 |
| 1053 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag Just out of curiosity, where are people doing the training sessions ? Golden Cheetah ? Trainer Road ? A power meter and head unit ? I am using GC but with a computrainer you just press the go button and you don't even have to look at the screen. it forces you to a wattage. Follow power from powermeter on bike computer during workout then Import .tcx file to Golden Cheetah from Garmin connect. Did Threshold 2 wk 3 following a swim workout (about 20 min break between), and I felt it. Heart rate was higher than it has been, and RPE was definitely higher then Threshold 1. TSS was 80. File is attached. Unless your eyes are better than mine, I cant see much from the pic I posted. The intervals (Goal was 257, 92% FTP) were: 263 (HR 148), 259 (HR 153), 261 (HR 156), and 269 (HR 160). I'm glad that there were only 4. Edited by ImSore 2014-01-23 6:57 PM (TH2Wk3.png) Attachments ---------------- TH2Wk3.png (69KB - 3 downloads) activity_434703903.tcx (499KB - 4 downloads) |
| 2014-01-23 7:03 PM in reply to: ligersandtions |
Veteran 1677 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Alright, my flight got delayed by many hours, so I think I'll get up and do Threshold 2 tomorrow. Stupid winter....don't know how you guys in Canada deal with it (though I suspect tomorrow's "freezing rain" wouldn't phase you guys....would just be normal operating procedures!). Haven't run in over three weeks now as my ankle's been bothering me, but I may give it a try this weekend. If it's a success, I'll probably cut back my riding to 3-4 days a week instead of 4-5....though I do love riding way more than running! |
| 2014-01-23 8:49 PM in reply to: 0 |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Week 3 Threshold #2 done. Felt healthy and strong! Really happy with this one. TSS 84.5 NP 192 Target for intervals was 200. Actual was 205; 206; 220 and 224. HR was much more contained at 162; 164; 168; 168. http://connect.garmin.com/activity/434731237 Edited by trisuppo 2014-01-23 9:18 PM |
| 2014-01-23 9:43 PM in reply to: trisuppo |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Week 2 Threshold #2 complete. Legs took a bit to come around but had no issues with the main intervals, nice workout, TSS = 62. Target was 192W and cranked out 195, 196, 193, 198 all on the aerobars and increased cadence for each. Attachments ---------------- 2014-01-23 BTWK2-THR2.csv (140KB - 3 downloads) |
| 2014-01-24 7:09 AM in reply to: marcag |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag As I understand it, there are a few factors that influence you ability to hold that 300watts for an Ironman a)Your VO2Max is the maximum volume of oxygen that can be utilized during maximal exercise b) The percent of that VO2max that you can maintain for a long period of time c) The efficiency at which you can generate power or run a certain pace, at that percent of VO2max I believe a) has a strong genetic component to it. You can raise your VO2max but genetics play a role here I believe b) is mostly trainable I am not sure about c. There are people with low Vo2max that generate large power because they are more "efficient". I believe efficiency may improve with hours of work. I do not know if there is a genetic component to this. So yes there is a large genetic component, however for us, I believe we have not hit the limit of what genetics has dealt us. Shane may be also able to shine some light on this...but I know he is working on a) b) and c) for us The first point certainly has a strong genetic component to it and will also decrease with age; this is why you will often hear that if you want to be good at endurance sports, the first thing you need to do is choose your parents wisely. While most athletes will not get close to their genetic limit in terms of VO2max, the genetic limit will still make a difference in performance as if I have a genetic limit of 65mL/(kg min) and you have a genetic limit of 55mL/(kg min) then it will likely be easier for me to get to 50mL/(kg min) than it will for you. When discussing genetic limits I think that this is something that is often overlooked as most will only look at the top end but genetic limits will not only define your roof but also play a strong role in your floor (starting point). The second point is trainable and the more training you do, generally the higher percentage of VO2max you can sustain for a given effort. For endurance athletes, what we will often see is that there will be little change to AWC, some gains in power at VO2max and larger gains in CP. This is because power at VO2max is influenced by both AWC and CP so an increase in CP increases power at VO2max. The third point is something that seems to be mostly fixed by genetics as well; there can be minor changes with lots of endurance training due to some muscle type conversion but efficiency is going to be mostly static for athletes and based on their muscle fiber composition. Shane |
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