SBR Utopia - OPEN (Page 34)
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() marcag - 2013-01-09 12:24 PM brigby1 - 2013-01-09 10:48 AM Do you guys do any type of wake up interval to get things going? Not just warm-up, but doing something at some level of effort above basic aerobic. I would miss a lot on the first one without it.
I used to do that and I should start again. Jorge used to do a 5x30" on/30" off in all his workouts. I think it helped. Yup. That is what I usually do or occasionally 20"on at 120% and 40" off if it is a VO2 workout. Sometimes I will do 2 or 3' at 95% to get warmed up for threshold work. Overall I usually do 20' of warm-up before the work starts..especially first thing in the morning. The afternoon workouts I can shorten that up and be fine. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() axteraa - 2013-01-09 12:40 PM marcag - 2013-01-09 1:33 PM Question to this group In the TT forum there was a person who after 160 hours of swimming last year, with a coach on deck the whole time, went from a 2:39/100m to 2:29/100m. Do you think this is acceptable ? I know swimming is tough for adult onset athletes, but after 160 hours of work with a coach ? I could see someone who got no correction only making marginal improvements, or someone that was already at a relatively fast pace, but wow, for me that just screams a coach who isn't efficient at conveying a message. Either not doing what's right or not getting through to the athlete. Are my expectations out of whack ? How do you measure the efficiency of a coach/athlete relationship ? How much time would you give a coach to see results ? If you said 1:39 to 1:29, that *might* be acceptable but I don't think 2:39 to 2:29 would be at all. I agree. I'm adult-onset. I was stuck (self-taught) at 2:15/100m. I hired a coach and after just a few sessions with my coach I was easily under 2:00 and within a month 1:45 was no problem. |
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![]() rymac - 2013-01-09 10:16 AM I do similar. 10' spinning from 50 up to 150W, calibrate the ct, then usually 5' of :20 or :30 fast, start the set at 15' inmarcag - 2013-01-09 12:24 PM brigby1 - 2013-01-09 10:48 AM Do you guys do any type of wake up interval to get things going? Not just warm-up, but doing something at some level of effort above basic aerobic. I would miss a lot on the first one without it.
I used to do that and I should start again. Jorge used to do a 5x30" on/30" off in all his workouts. I think it helped. Yup. That is what I usually do or occasionally 20"on at 120% and 40" off if it is a VO2 workout. Sometimes I will do 2 or 3' at 95% to get warmed up for threshold work. Overall I usually do 20' of warm-up before the work starts..especially first thing in the morning. The afternoon workouts I can shorten that up and be fine. |
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![]() Experior - 2013-01-09 10:20 AM A :10 improvement from 2:39 over that period of time indicates some major technique issues, I would thinkaxteraa - 2013-01-09 12:40 PM marcag - 2013-01-09 1:33 PM Question to this group In the TT forum there was a person who after 160 hours of swimming last year, with a coach on deck the whole time, went from a 2:39/100m to 2:29/100m. Do you think this is acceptable ? I know swimming is tough for adult onset athletes, but after 160 hours of work with a coach ? I could see someone who got no correction only making marginal improvements, or someone that was already at a relatively fast pace, but wow, for me that just screams a coach who isn't efficient at conveying a message. Either not doing what's right or not getting through to the athlete. Are my expectations out of whack ? How do you measure the efficiency of a coach/athlete relationship ? How much time would you give a coach to see results ? If you said 1:39 to 1:29, that *might* be acceptable but I don't think 2:39 to 2:29 would be at all. I agree. I'm adult-onset. I was stuck (self-taught) at 2:15/100m. I hired a coach and after just a few sessions with my coach I was easily under 2:00 and within a month 1:45 was no problem. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Anydoby in the group have PF and just fought through the pain? I got it bad last November about 2.5 weeks before my marathon and even now it still lingers. My run miles are a little low now becuase maybe I'm being a little wuss and would rather not deal with the pain the following morning. I'm doing exercises daily which helps. Not sure how long before it "goes away" but if I keep running will it ever?....... I so want to knock down rainbows and stomp on flower gardens this summer in my tri events but that will be tough without a good run game. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() reecealan - 2013-01-08 1:26 PM Anydoby in the group have PF and just fought through the pain? I got it bad last November about 2.5 weeks before my marathon and even now it still lingers. My run miles are a little low now becuase maybe I'm being a little wuss and would rather not deal with the pain the following morning. I'm doing exercises daily which helps. Not sure how long before it "goes away" but if I keep running will it ever?....... I so want to knock down rainbows and stomp on flower gardens this summer in my tri events but that will be tough without a good run game. Personally, I have never fought with PF (yet), but have plenty of friends who have...pushing through only lengthened total recovery time. I would recommend: 1) rest, ice, etc and 2) get thee to a PT who can help "break up" the crap on the bottom of your foot (it almost sounds like rice krispies being exposed to milk) to speed it along. So sorry you are going through this. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ChrisM - 2013-01-08 1:26 PM Experior - 2013-01-09 10:20 AM A :10 improvement from 2:39 over that period of time indicates some major technique issues, I would thinkaxteraa - 2013-01-09 12:40 PM marcag - 2013-01-09 1:33 PM Question to this group In the TT forum there was a person who after 160 hours of swimming last year, with a coach on deck the whole time, went from a 2:39/100m to 2:29/100m. Do you think this is acceptable ? I know swimming is tough for adult onset athletes, but after 160 hours of work with a coach ? I could see someone who got no correction only making marginal improvements, or someone that was already at a relatively fast pace, but wow, for me that just screams a coach who isn't efficient at conveying a message. Either not doing what's right or not getting through to the athlete. Are my expectations out of whack ? How do you measure the efficiency of a coach/athlete relationship ? How much time would you give a coach to see results ? If you said 1:39 to 1:29, that *might* be acceptable but I don't think 2:39 to 2:29 would be at all. I agree. I'm adult-onset. I was stuck (self-taught) at 2:15/100m. I hired a coach and after just a few sessions with my coach I was easily under 2:00 and within a month 1:45 was no problem. I think we don't have the complete picture here. I'm more with the Experior perspective...that much time with that level of improvement is not what *I* would expect. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() reecealan - 2013-01-09 1:26 PM Anydoby in the group have PF and just fought through the pain? I got it bad last November about 2.5 weeks before my marathon and even now it still lingers. My run miles are a little low now becuase maybe I'm being a little wuss and would rather not deal with the pain the following morning. I'm doing exercises daily which helps. Not sure how long before it "goes away" but if I keep running will it ever?....... I so want to knock down rainbows and stomp on flower gardens this summer in my tri events but that will be tough without a good run game. Had PF a few years ago. I laid off running for a bit (not the answer anyone wants to hear) and used every non-invasive therapy as aggressively as possible. I slept in the boot (not the strasburg sock, that just made my toes numb), went to PT and stretched. Icing post run is also good. I kept an aluminum can (beans, veggies, whatever) in the freezer to roll my feet post run. Aluminum conducts cold better than plastic. I still am very conscious about stretching my feet/lower leg. And it did resolve and hasn't returned, even when I ramped up to 40+ mpw. The fact that you mention morning pain specifically suggests that wearing a boot at night might help, or at the very least make sure you loosen the sheets/blankets at the foot of your bed. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Asalzwed - 2013-01-09 10:05 AM marcag - 2013-01-09 11:33 AM Question to this group In the TT forum there was a person who after 160 hours of swimming last year, with a coach on deck the whole time, went from a 2:39/100m to 2:29/100m. Do you think this is acceptable ? I know swimming is tough for adult onset athletes, but after 160 hours of work with a coach ? I could see someone who got no correction only making marginal improvements, or someone that was already at a relatively fast pace, but wow, for me that just screams a coach who isn't efficient at conveying a message. Either not doing what's right or not getting through to the athlete. Are my expectations out of whack ? How do you measure the efficiency of a coach/athlete relationship ? How much time would you give a coach to see results ? I would most certainly be disappointed. Of course, I wouldn't have waited 160 hours to realize something is NOT working. I think you measure ehh maybe not efficiency, but success, strictly on race results or improvement. I think how much time you give a coach has a lot of variables. I'm not sure how long I would give ... Agreed, I would be very disappointed with the return on investment. That's a lot of hours spent swimming, and (presumably) a lot of dollars spent on coaching, with not a lot of improvement. I've been a little disappointed with my recent improvements (over the course of about a month, I went from 2:00/100 to 1:45/100....and over the past few months, I'm down to maybe 1:40/100), but I'm also being realistic that if I want to see big improvements again, I'll have to put in a lot more time (I have decent speed on sprints, but can't hold it over long periods of time). Honestly, I found that thread frustrating to read. I think it's fairly clear that she needs to try a different approach....but refuses to do so. When people ask questions and ignore responses, I get the urge to post something snarky....hah. |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ligersandtions - 2013-01-09 1:52 PM Honestly, I found that thread frustrating to read. I think it's fairly clear that she needs to try a different approach....but refuses to do so. When people ask questions and ignore responses, I get the urge to post something snarky....hah. This is a recurring phenomenon.
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bzgl40 - 2013-01-09 7:03 AM rymac - 2013-01-09 7:47 AM Hard trainer ride this morning...thought I was going to have to modify the workout after the first interval but to my surprise they came around on the second so that was good. If I don't get a good enough warm up (even if it feels like it was) I'm the same way. First 1-2 intervals totally suck and somehow it just comes around and the rest feel really good for some reason. Sometimes, even with a good warm up (and some "wake-up" intervals -- 5x 30" hard/fast, 30" recovery), the first couple intervals feel brutal. Yesterday's ride, for example, I was basically bargaining with myself...."If you do five (of the ten) intervals, you can call it a success and make it a short training session", but managed to gut it out in the end....after a few intervals in, I started feeling fine, hitting and holding my target power. But I was tired and really would have loved to just stay in bed! |
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![]() Ok...I just posted something here and realized it doesn't belong here. Lets all try to keep the TT "noise" separate from this thread. Marc's question was certainly valid to ask here...but lets not derail the conversation as I was about to... Edited by tri808 2013-01-09 1:34 PM |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() reecealan - 2013-01-09 1:26 PM Anydoby in the group have PF and just fought through the pain? I got it bad last November about 2.5 weeks before my marathon and even now it still lingers. My run miles are a little low now becuase maybe I'm being a little wuss and would rather not deal with the pain the following morning. I'm doing exercises daily which helps. Not sure how long before it "goes away" but if I keep running will it ever?....... I so want to knock down rainbows and stomp on flower gardens this summer in my tri events but that will be tough without a good run game. <raises hand> I pretty much 'fought through' it but then at some point I did back off. It still lingers but is manageable. Stretching toes (both directions) felt good and helped, I think. But the big thing was massaging the bottom of the foot against something hard. I have a paperweight (the dome-shaped kind) under my desk and I'm constantly massaging my foot on it. It helps. I think. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() tri808 - 2013-01-08 2:32 PM Ok...I just posted something here and realized it doesn't belong here. Lets all try to keep the TT "noise" separate from this thread. Marc's question was certainly valid to ask here...but lets not derail the conversation as I was about to... Man - you know the moderators are tough when they self-moderate ;-) |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() tri808 - 2013-01-09 2:32 PM Ok...I just posted something here and realized it doesn't belong here. Lets all try to keep the TT "noise" separate from this thread. Marc's question was certainly valid to ask here...but lets not derail the conversation as I was about to... Not trying to derail the conversation - but I was able to guess who the OP was. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ligersandtions - 2013-01-09 1:57 PM bzgl40 - 2013-01-09 7:03 AM rymac - 2013-01-09 7:47 AM Hard trainer ride this morning...thought I was going to have to modify the workout after the first interval but to my surprise they came around on the second so that was good. If I don't get a good enough warm up (even if it feels like it was) I'm the same way. First 1-2 intervals totally suck and somehow it just comes around and the rest feel really good for some reason. Sometimes, even with a good warm up (and some "wake-up" intervals -- 5x 30" hard/fast, 30" recovery), the first couple intervals feel brutal. Yesterday's ride, for example, I was basically bargaining with myself...."If you do five (of the ten) intervals, you can call it a success and make it a short training session", but managed to gut it out in the end....after a few intervals in, I started feeling fine, hitting and holding my target power. But I was tired and really would have loved to just stay in bed! Agree with everyone else - if I didn't do the 5min of short/hard intervals, there is no way I'm hitting the targets in the first full interval when it needs to be over 95%. That said the short ones can also be a warning about just how much the session is about to suck. |
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![]() itsallrelative_Maine - 2013-01-09 11:47 AM Not until he imposes a timeout on himself. tri808 - 2013-01-08 2:32 PM Ok...I just posted something here and realized it doesn't belong here. Lets all try to keep the TT "noise" separate from this thread. Marc's question was certainly valid to ask here...but lets not derail the conversation as I was about to... Man - you know the moderators are tough when they self-moderate ;-) |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ChrisM - 2013-01-09 3:03 PM itsallrelative_Maine - 2013-01-09 11:47 AM Not until he imposes a timeout on himself. tri808 - 2013-01-08 2:32 PM Ok...I just posted something here and realized it doesn't belong here. Lets all try to keep the TT "noise" separate from this thread. Marc's question was certainly valid to ask here...but lets not derail the conversation as I was about to... Man - you know the moderators are tough when they self-moderate ;-) Must. Not. Read. TT. Seriously, I see what you are all trying to do - you are trying to TRICK me into breaking my self-imposed ban on TT reading. But joke's on you - just based on the topic I don't even have to read it to have a very good guess at who is having the issue. At the end of the day IMHO it is the athlete that is responsible for their performance and improvement, not the coach. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() GoFaster - 2013-01-09 2:54 PM ligersandtions - 2013-01-09 1:57 PM bzgl40 - 2013-01-09 7:03 AM rymac - 2013-01-09 7:47 AM Hard trainer ride this morning...thought I was going to have to modify the workout after the first interval but to my surprise they came around on the second so that was good. If I don't get a good enough warm up (even if it feels like it was) I'm the same way. First 1-2 intervals totally suck and somehow it just comes around and the rest feel really good for some reason. Sometimes, even with a good warm up (and some "wake-up" intervals -- 5x 30" hard/fast, 30" recovery), the first couple intervals feel brutal. Yesterday's ride, for example, I was basically bargaining with myself...."If you do five (of the ten) intervals, you can call it a success and make it a short training session", but managed to gut it out in the end....after a few intervals in, I started feeling fine, hitting and holding my target power. But I was tired and really would have loved to just stay in bed! Agree with everyone else - if I didn't do the 5min of short/hard intervals, there is no way I'm hitting the targets in the first full interval when it needs to be over 95%. That said the short ones can also be a warning about just how much the session is about to suck. Same here. It takes me a good 30 minutes to warm up. That is going to include some power bursts (5x 10 sec HARD, 50 sec recovery) 4-5 minutes at 95% followed by 10 minutes of base spinning just to blow the freshness out if the legs - that usually keeps me from going gonzo on the first intervals. |
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![]() | ![]() I had a quick question. When we are talking about swim speeds and improvement; Over what distances are we talking? Example, when someone says I went from 2:00 per to 1:40 (or whatever) are we talking about an all out 100m or are we talking over the course of a sprint distance or what? Also, is it assumed it's over 100M not yards? Edited by Asalzwed 2013-01-09 2:21 PM |
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![]() Asalzwed - 2013-01-09 10:21 AM I had a quick question. When we are talking about swim speeds and improvement; Over what distances are we talking? Example, when someone says I went from 2:00 per to 1:40 (or whatever) are we talking about an all out 100m or are we talking over the course of a sprint distance or what? Also, is it assumed it's over 100M not yards? The reference to Marc's question was 500 yards. I will never reference my swim speed as my 100y all out unless specifically asked what my 100 all out is. I don't think it makes sense as a triathlete to gauge your speed that way since none of our competitions are that short. If someone asked me how fast I swim, I'd probably reference a 500-1000y TT pace. |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Asalzwed - 2013-01-09 3:21 PM I had a quick question. When we are talking about swim speeds and improvement; Over what distances are we talking? Example, when someone says I went from 2:00 per to 1:40 (or whatever) are we talking about an all out 100m or are we talking over the course of a sprint distance or what? Also, is it assumed it's over 100M not yards? I think it's all over the board in common usage (even the thread in question had paces listed for two different distances). I always sort of assumed the fish were talking about T-pace, which I understand to be pace over a 1000yds (or meters) time trial. I guess yards or meters just depends on your particular pool.
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Asalzwed - 2013-01-09 2:21 PM I had a quick question. When we are talking about swim speeds and improvement; Over what distances are we talking? Example, when someone says I went from 2:00 per to 1:40 (or whatever) are we talking about an all out 100m or are we talking over the course of a sprint distance or what? Also, is it assumed it's over 100M not yards?
I have seen people use 400m, 500y, 1000m, 1500 and even 3x300. I think the trick is to be consistent. The shorter, the more people have a tendency to repeat it. 1500m TT are not a pleasant experience in my opinion. I believe "officially" threshold on the swim is a pace you can sustain 30min and is also known as T-30. But I am not sure Edited by marcag 2013-01-09 2:55 PM |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() tri808 - 2013-01-09 1:32 PM Ok...I just posted something here and realized it doesn't belong here. Lets all try to keep the TT "noise" separate from this thread. Marc's question was certainly valid to ask here...but lets not derail the conversation as I was about to...
I really didn't want to drag a TT topic over here. I chose my words carefully, because it's not obvious if the problem is the coach, the athlete, both or none. I sincerely thought maybe my expectations are out of whack and I cannot appreciate what it would be like to be swimming at that speed. Maybe I'm an elitist My question is more along the line of how long do you give a coach to show results, what are realistic expectations and I guess even can a coach fire an athlete. How long do you wait for results before changing strategies ? I'll take it one further. Should one ask a coach for reasonable goals, and if the person does everything they were told to, hold the coach accountable ? Should the coach fire the athlete or reset expectations if the athlete is not holding their part of the deal ? I wish Shane was around :-) |
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![]() | ![]() marcag - 2013-01-09 1:53 PM tri808 - 2013-01-09 1:32 PM Ok...I just posted something here and realized it doesn't belong here. Lets all try to keep the TT "noise" separate from this thread. Marc's question was certainly valid to ask here...but lets not derail the conversation as I was about to...
I really didn't want to drag a TT topic over here. I chose my words carefully, because it's not obvious if the problem is the coach, the athlete, both or none. I sincerely thought maybe my expectations are out of whack and I cannot appreciate what it would be like to be swimming at that speed. Maybe I'm an elitist My question is more along the line of how long do you give a coach to show results, what are realistic expectations and I guess even can a coach fire an athlete. How long do you wait for results before changing strategies ? I'll take it one further. Should one ask a coach for reasonable goals, and if the person does everything they were told to, hold the coach accountable ? Should the coach fire the athlete or reset expectations if the athlete is not holding their part of the deal ? I wish Shane was around :-) I think you underestimated our ability to bring TT in here. personally I would want the coach to fire themselves if they see they are not making an impact. I am not so sure how realistic it is to expect that but I wouldn't want to keep coaching someone who was not working out (and there could be many reasons for that). It does no one good, not even the coach when you think about word of mouth, etc etc |
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