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Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. (Page 43)
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 2014-02-06 8:50 AM in reply to: marcag |
Master  3888      Overland Park, KS |  Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.Originally posted by marcag I meant to ask the group this Can you tell us when is your first race ? what is the distance ? when can you start riding outdoor ? Jason need not respond to that last question :-) First race is May 18, Kansas City Triathlon Olympic Distance I can ride outdoors when all this snow is gone but I don't have power outdoors so I may extend indoor riding to stay focused. Normally outdoor riding starts in March around here. |
| 2014-02-06 8:50 AM in reply to: marcag |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by trisuppo Week 5 - Threshold 2 done. It was tough - ended up doing the 10 minute intervals @ ~98% of FTP instead on 95%. That's where the gearing and cadence felt most comfortable. File attached. Link to workout on Garmin Connect below. http://connect.garmin.com/activity/441233635 Mitch, interesting ride. If your PM data is correct, and I am sure it is, you are an example of why a Stages power meter would not be great for you Early in the ride you have a nice distribution of power between left and right. As you tire, you become right dominant. Look at the splits in Garmin Connect But you are even more right dominant on lower power levels when tired. A stages PM would have read lower for a good part of your workout because it would have doubled your weak leg I had noticed the fatigue factor and my pedaling becoming a bit off balanced between L & R. Interesting observation on lower power numbers. Can only assume that at lower power #s, when fatigued, I end up relying on right leg since its so much easier than the interval just completed. That is one of the things I couldn't get past with the Stages. I wasn't sur where my balance was between L & R, but for a bit more was able to get what I would deem a bit more accurate power #. Unrelated, my trail period expired on the Cycleops VirtualTraining app. So I installed another app that was discussed in DCRainmaker's Wahoo Kickr review. Its called iMobileIntervals. It doesn't have the virtual ride capabilities, but where its better is that I can import ERG files into it on my desktop and then access them from my iPad. It also has audio cues that an interval is ending (the Cycleops did not do that). The cycleops app's other shortcoming was that you could not build a workout via FTP%. therefore as your FTP changes (hopefully higher!!) you would have to go back in and edit the entire workout to reflect new absolute power #s. The new app I installed allows you to build workouts off of FTP%. I'm anxiously awaiting trainerroad to finish their iOS app. Also, this new app has an impressive libarary of workouts that users have made public as well as workouts that mirror sufferfest videos. Happy to answer any questions that folks may have. |
| 2014-02-06 9:08 AM in reply to: marcag |
| 92 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag I meant to ask the group this Can you tell us when is your first race ? what is the distance ? when can you start riding outdoor ? Jason need not respond to that last question :-) First Race and First Tri Ever - Texasman Sprint Tri on 5/4/2014 Distance is a Sprint with 500 Yard Swim, 16.1 mile bike and 3.1 mile run Hopefully get some outdoor within the next few weeks but it's been a pretty cold winter for North Texas and I'm a cold weather wuss. Also do not have a power meter yet. Hoping I can put the funds together soon though. Thanks, Ron |
| 2014-02-06 9:30 AM in reply to: marcag |
| 243 Lincoln, Nebraska | Subject: RE: Week 5 Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by crissy_jo I'll include a photo of mine...if I can figure it out... Wonder what makes it so different? Anyone have insight? Am I pushing too hard not enough? I haven't hit my threshold heart rate in any of these. Could it be you are comparing one of your VO2 workouts with Rich's threshold workout ? If so, very normal. His HR is going to rise a bit slower and settle in close to this LTHR. DOH! |
| 2014-02-06 9:56 AM in reply to: marcag |
Veteran 441 Maine | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag I meant to ask the group this Can you tell us when is your first race ? what is the distance ? when can you start riding outdoor ? Jason need not respond to that last question :-) First race will be the White Mtn Tri on June 8th. 70.3. Hopefully be able to do some outdoor rides sometime in April. If lucky sooner but it will all depend on how long it takes to get rid of the snow. I'm really hoping to get up to Acadia to ride the loop road and Cadillac before they open it to traffic at the end of April. |
| 2014-02-06 12:31 PM in reply to: marcag |
Veteran 1677 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag I meant to ask the group this Can you tell us when is your first race ? what is the distance ? when can you start riding outdoor ? Jason need not respond to that last question :-) May 3rd (yikes!!) St. George 70.3 Could technically ride outside now, but it'll probably be March before I start (temps in the 30's-40's are a little cold for me, and most of my riding buddies and I are doing a "Mad Spin" class the tri club puts on, where we bring our trainers and bikes and ride for 2-3 hours on Sundays) |
| 2014-02-06 2:26 PM in reply to: 0 |
Veteran 341 Orangevale, CA | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag when is your first race ? March 29th what is the distance ? 70.3 (Oceanside) when can you start riding outdoor ? I can ride outside now. We are finally getting some rain in California, but even then I can ride since it's not too cold. Edited by croyston 2014-02-06 2:27 PM |
| 2014-02-06 2:29 PM in reply to: croyston |
| 1053 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Date: May 4th Distance: 70.3 Will be able to ride outside in about 4 to 6 weeks I am guessing. |
| 2014-02-06 3:08 PM in reply to: marcag |
| Oakville | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag I meant to ask the group this Can you tell us when is your first race ? what is the distance ? My first scheduled race is June 7th. Its an extended Sprint - 750 m swim / 30 km bike / 7.5 km run. My schedule (in draft) has me racing roughly twice a month until the middle of September, mainly Sprints with 1 maybe 2 Olympics. Originally posted by marcag when can you start riding outdoor ? Not soon enough! Another 20 cm or so of snow yesterday. I typically don't start riding outdoors until April or May, but like others above I don't have a PM yet and so will limit outdoor rides to a longer ride on the weekend and use HR as a guide. . |
| 2014-02-06 6:02 PM in reply to: 0 |
| 243 Lincoln, Nebraska | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag I meant to ask the group this Can you tell us when is your first race ? what is the distance ? when can you start riding outdoor ? Jason need not respond to that last question :-) My first race is next weekend. It's an indoor tri. The events have time limits rather than distance limits and then scored by who goes the farthest. This will be the 2nd year doing it. Last year the swim was so hard! Should feel easier now that I have practiced swimming a bit more since then. I want to see how much improvement I have made since last year. 10 minute swim, 30 minute bike, 20 minute run. Can't bike, covered in snow outside and -12°F when I got up. Edited by crissy_jo 2014-02-06 6:03 PM |
| 2014-02-06 6:38 PM in reply to: marcag |
Member 117 Boulder, Colorado | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. My first race of the season is Ironman 70.3 Boulder in June. I could ride outside this weekend possibly. Definitely next week. Basically year round. Colorado is the best, yo. |
| 2014-02-06 7:00 PM in reply to: marcag |
Veteran 441 Maine | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Did Week5 VO2-1 tonight. I could feel myself fading on the last 30 seconds of the first couple of intervals, I had to focus to get the power back up. I also used this workout to work on my cadence again since I've been slipping back into my lower cadence habit. The last 3 interval I did in a lower gear & higher cadence than the first 3. I found I was able to hold the power level more consistent through the entire interval. SWE-1 is planned for Sat morning, I'll post all the files after that. |
| 2014-02-06 7:25 PM in reply to: marcag |
Veteran 1677 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by ligersandtions This is exactly my VO2 session. "I can do anything for one minute", except, "wow, I have to do this 5 more times" The 93% felt easy didn't it? Can you post the workout ? Would love to see how it maps with the W' stuff which I am still trying to figure out. Did Week 5, VO2 - 1 this morning. I built the 2.5 minute intervals from 106% for the first one to 115% (1W higher than my 5' max power) for the final one. This ride was tough....manageable, but tough. I think there is a large mental component to doing intervals above threshold, but it certainly helps that they're shorter....when it gets down to a minute left, I always find myself repeating, "one minute, you can do anything for one minute!" in my head I threw in a 5' effort at 93% at the end of the ride and then extended it out to 60 minutes. It was amazing how comfortable 93% felt versus 115%! Today's VO2 ride attached -- would love to hear what you'er learning about this W' stuff. Attachments ---------------- 2014-02-06-041725.TCX (1988KB - 3 downloads) |
| 2014-02-06 9:31 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Oakville | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. I did the Week 5 Threshold1 workout last night and just finished speedwork on the indoor track tonight. With the VO2-2 workout scheduled for tomorrow night, my legs are taking a beating!
Edited by Scott71 2014-02-06 9:34 PM Attachments ---------------- WK5THR1.csv (155KB - 2 downloads) |
| 2014-02-06 10:12 PM in reply to: Scott71 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Originally posted by Scott71 Originally posted by marcag I meant to ask the group this Can you tell us when is your first race ? what is the distance ? My first scheduled race is June 7th. Its an extended Sprint - 750 m swim / 30 km bike / 7.5 km run. My schedule (in draft) has me racing roughly twice a month until the middle of September, mainly Sprints with 1 maybe 2 Olympics. Originally posted by marcag when can you start riding outdoor ? Not soon enough! Another 20 cm or so of snow yesterday. I typically don't start riding outdoors until April or May, but like others above I don't have a PM yet and so will limit outdoor rides to a longer ride on the weekend and use HR as a guide. . Living with the same 20cm of snow. Would normally ride in the cold as long as the roads are clear, but usually on the roadie rather than tri bike. Just no chance this winter...As soon as the roads are clear I'll be outside on the weekends. First race June 1 - Sprint, last race in September will be a 70.3. |
| 2014-02-07 3:03 AM in reply to: marcag |
Member 258 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. My first race this year is a reverse sprint tri April 26th. Bike is 10 miles. I can ride outside *sometimes*. This week it is snowy and icy. 2 weeks ago it was sunny and 40-50 degrees. Jaime |
| 2014-02-07 7:53 AM in reply to: marcag |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: Week 5 Hey Marc, I know my PMC chart is fully stabilized having really just started being religious out uploading everything since start of the year, but what do you usually run at for the training stress balance during a pretty high workload couple weeks? I know I've read that when people taper and get it to around 0 or a little above for a couple days they are seeing good form. I ask because I was in the hole after last week around negative 60 and now at negative 20 after what was a recovery week on the schedule. I do feel fatigue though, not lighting it up on the threshold stuff, but interestingly my anaerobic power seems to be doing a little better (which I only care about because I'm doing the crit racing next month). |
| 2014-02-07 8:28 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Week 5 Originally posted by JAYCT Hey Marc, I know my PMC chart is fully stabilized having really just started being religious out uploading everything since start of the year, but what do you usually run at for the training stress balance during a pretty high workload couple weeks? I know I've read that when people taper and get it to around 0 or a little above for a couple days they are seeing good form. I ask because I was in the hole after last week around negative 60 and now at negative 20 after what was a recovery week on the schedule. I do feel fatigue though, not lighting it up on the threshold stuff, but interestingly my anaerobic power seems to be doing a little better (which I only care about because I'm doing the crit racing next month). Last year I did 3 peaks. One for Tremblant 70.3, one for Vegas WC and one for Miami in Oct Tremblant was my best race and I peaked at 57 for my CTL and my TSB was -15 a week or two before. My lowest TSB was -30 but this was 8 weeks prior to the race. This is for bike only Across all three sports I peaked at 149 CTL amd about -33 TSB for Tremblant in the few weeks prior to race. My lowest TSB 8 weeks prior to race was -47. When I did vegas, a few weeks prior I was -49TSB a few weeks prior and did not perform well. I think I tried to cram in too much training My CTL and ATL rose quickly. I am not sure that was the cause of a bad race at Vegas. I suspect there were a few culprits. For the group, we will be looking at CTL/ATL/TSB and PMC charts in a few weeks. You are currently filling up that chart with your workout data. Edited by marcag 2014-02-07 8:30 AM |
| 2014-02-07 8:36 AM in reply to: marcag |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: Week 5 Thanks Marc, just getting into this stuff and that is helpful. Was reading some other stuff that said it isn't necessarily the negative number in isolation but how long you've been carrying that negative number and the trend before you shed the fatigue which makes sense too. Good stuff. I found this on a random search and like the way it was written to be easily understood without getting too much into the weeds. Figured I'd post here for others: Periods of training will raise CTL and ATL, but lower TSB. They respond at different rates so the daily fluctuations in training sessions will minimise the growth of ATL whilst CTL creeps up. As a general rule long periods of negative TSB are an indication recovery is needed. You need periods of negative TSB it’s part of the process of developing fitness. You also need to let it restore a positive value at times. Absolute numbers aren’t the important aspect of the chart it’s all about the shape. We’re looking for that manageable growth in CTL from a plan that regularly generates TSS above current levels. At the same time it needs to be balanced so that there are periods of lower TSS and recovery to minimise overall growth in ATL and to allow TSB to restore to positive values. Within a training week a mix of hard and easy days should allow CTL growth whilst preventing large spikes of ATL. Beyond that on a macro level cycles of easier weeks or recovery periods provide a means to allow TSB to restore at a small cost to CTL. Following recovery you should be able to return to training with better performance. |
| 2014-02-07 8:52 AM in reply to: RunningJoke |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Still at it. Work is not being cooperative but getting it done. Did Wk4 threshold 2 last night, TSS 82. Thought I clicked on Thrs1 but didn't realize it until I was into it.
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| 2014-02-07 9:01 AM in reply to: JAYCT |
| 243 Lincoln, Nebraska | Subject: RE: Week 5 Originally posted by JAYCT Thanks Marc, just getting into this stuff and that is helpful. Was reading some other stuff that said it isn't necessarily the negative number in isolation but how long you've been carrying that negative number and the trend before you shed the fatigue which makes sense too. Good stuff. I found this on a random search and like the way it was written to be easily understood without getting too much into the weeds. Figured I'd post here for others: Periods of training will raise CTL and ATL, but lower TSB. They respond at different rates so the daily fluctuations in training sessions will minimise the growth of ATL whilst CTL creeps up. As a general rule long periods of negative TSB are an indication recovery is needed. You need periods of negative TSB it’s part of the process of developing fitness. You also need to let it restore a positive value at times. Absolute numbers aren’t the important aspect of the chart it’s all about the shape. We’re looking for that manageable growth in CTL from a plan that regularly generates TSS above current levels. At the same time it needs to be balanced so that there are periods of lower TSS and recovery to minimise overall growth in ATL and to allow TSB to restore to positive values. Within a training week a mix of hard and easy days should allow CTL growth whilst preventing large spikes of ATL. Beyond that on a macro level cycles of easier weeks or recovery periods provide a means to allow TSB to restore at a small cost to CTL. Following recovery you should be able to return to training with better performance. "Written to be easily understood"... LOL. I feel like I'm reading a teenager's text message. I have no idea what these acronyms stand for. I could look them up, but I'm lazy right now. On another note, I did the Threshold 1 workout for this week, and I didn't like it very much. I love the VO2 workouts. LOVE LOVE LOVE the VO2 workouts. But I do not like the threshold workouts as much. So why is that? I'm going to have to compare the 2 workouts to see what is so different and why I don't like them as much as the VO2. On a good note, my heart rate looked more like...shoot, whose graph was that I was comparing to where I said his heart rate looked like hills and mine were mtns? Anyway, my heart rate looked more like hills with plateaus with this workout, as I think it was supposed to. Thanks Marc for pointing out my folly of comparing a VO2 workout to a THR. Other than heart rate, the two workouts for this week looked the same on the graphs, which explains my confusing the 2 for the same. |
| 2014-02-07 11:54 AM in reply to: crissy_jo |
Pro 4482 NJ | Subject: RE: Week 5 Greetings. Just a quick stop to say hello and for those of you riding via TR I'm going to join you there for a bit. I had my first real workout in 6 weeks this morning. I graduated from a cast to a splint and am cleared to start back, although I have very limited use of my right arm/hand still. Just pumping up the tires and getting the bike on the trainer was a workout. Lost a lot of fitness in the time away. Will try to catch up on reading the thread over the weekend. As for workouts, I'm just planning to get time on the trainer for the next week. I prob need to get some time on the bike before trying to test again. I did the TR 20 min test in early Dec so will revise FTP downward off that for now. As for races....TImberman 70.3 in August. Lots of time yet. Not sure when I'll get outside but not soon. |
| 2014-02-07 11:58 AM in reply to: JAYCT |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Week 5 Originally posted by JAYCT Thanks Marc, just getting into this stuff and that is helpful. Was reading some other stuff that said it isn't necessarily the negative number in isolation but how long you've been carrying that negative number and the trend before you shed the fatigue which makes sense too. Good stuff. I found this on a random search and like the way it was written to be easily understood without getting too much into the weeds. Figured I'd post here for others: Periods of training will raise CTL and ATL, but lower TSB. They respond at different rates so the daily fluctuations in training sessions will minimise the growth of ATL whilst CTL creeps up. As a general rule long periods of negative TSB are an indication recovery is needed. You need periods of negative TSB it’s part of the process of developing fitness. You also need to let it restore a positive value at times. Absolute numbers aren’t the important aspect of the chart it’s all about the shape. We’re looking for that manageable growth in CTL from a plan that regularly generates TSS above current levels. At the same time it needs to be balanced so that there are periods of lower TSS and recovery to minimise overall growth in ATL and to allow TSB to restore to positive values. Within a training week a mix of hard and easy days should allow CTL growth whilst preventing large spikes of ATL. Beyond that on a macro level cycles of easier weeks or recovery periods provide a means to allow TSB to restore at a small cost to CTL. Following recovery you should be able to return to training with better performance. Jason, did you figure out how to set your starting CTL ? |
| 2014-02-07 12:05 PM in reply to: kcarroll |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Week 5 Originally posted by kcarroll Greetings. Just a quick stop to say hello and for those of you riding via TR I'm going to join you there for a bit. I had my first real workout in 6 weeks this morning. I graduated from a cast to a splint and am cleared to start back, although I have very limited use of my right arm/hand still. Just pumping up the tires and getting the bike on the trainer was a workout. Lost a lot of fitness in the time away. Will try to catch up on reading the thread over the weekend. As for workouts, I'm just planning to get time on the trainer for the next week. I prob need to get some time on the bike before trying to test again. I did the TR 20 min test in early Dec so will revise FTP downward off that for now. As for races....TImberman 70.3 in August. Lots of time yet. Not sure when I'll get outside but not soon. Hey !!!! Welcome back !!! By popular demand, we are testing in 2 weeks (I think) so just get back used to the "fun" of the trainer, test and away we go :-) The reason I was asking about when people are racing is that several are early, such as Chris and Nicole. They are also doing HIM. As you get closer to race day you do want a certain amount of "race type" training. For those doing Oly and Sprint, the threshold stuff is great. For those doing HIM, you will want a certain amount of longer tempo work, which is the pace you will race, so it was more to figure out how to transition those folks. |
| 2014-02-07 12:22 PM in reply to: marcag |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: Week 5 Marc, no I didn't get that far. If I had it on my work computer I would have had it all set by now! Not sure how to do that. I know it takes about 6 weeks to stabilize from what I read, but how much does accuracy matter in the beginning value if I punch something in from the beginning of the year? I gave this a look: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/what-is-the-performance-... Says to take avg hrs per day and multiply by 50-75 depending on how intense you are. I'm inclined to seed it CTL=50 based on that. I'm not really running anymore for now (nothing meaningful). Looking at the couple months before I started using it I was here. October: Bike 14.5hrs (288mi) Run 16.5 hrs (113mi) November: Bike 9hrs (165mi) Run 20hrs (126mi) December: Bike: 18.5hrs (350mi) Run: 10 hours (70mi) January (first month I started populating GC) Bike 23.5hrs - 450imi Run 1.75hrs - 13mi So, what do you think? BTW, thanks again for starting this group. I've learned a ton following this thread and then getting curious and diving into some other material. I'm just mad at myself I didn't take advantage of this stuff earlier. |
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