SBR Utopia - OPEN (Page 44)
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() axteraa - 2013-01-16 8:47 AM I have. I attribute it to clutching my water bottle, which is one reason I don't carry water. (In addition to the sloshing sound driving me batty.) So, yes, tension, for me.bzgl40 - 2013-01-16 10:02 AM Finally doesn't feel like the arctic out there. Run will have to wait though since I have an early morning presentation. Good things arms are not that involved in running as I kind of trashed them a bit during strength training this morning. On that note.... does anyone ever get sore/tired arms while running? I've had it happen to me a few times, usually during a hard run. It's usually my triceps and biceps that are affected. To me, this suggests upper body tension that is probably wasting energy? Any time it has happened, I try to think about relaxing a bit but it's usually too late by then. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I have one boy home sick. He's been in bed for four days now. I am fighting it off, but losing. I managed my swim yesterday and then crashed. I am hoping to have enough energy after class today to get some kind of run in. It is supposed to warm up a little today, so I turned off the heat, opened the windows a little, and told Ben to stay cuddled up in bed. I hope to get those nasty germs out of the house. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() marcag - 2013-01-16 8:00 AM itsallrelative_Maine - 2013-01-16 6:27 AM I have only done the 20 minute tests - but there are lots of comments from the peanut gallery about the amount of noise I make (and keep in mind - I ride in the basement behind closed doors). Stupid questions - what is the difference between the two tests (other than the amount of time)? What are you testing? What would improving one over the other mean in terms of performance? Not a stupid question at all What you are really trying to do is get the power you can maintain for an hour The best way to do this is do a 1 hour test. But that is not something many people want to do, so they don't, so they don't test regularly. To make it more "doable" they came up with a series of tests that approximate your 60min power One way is to do a 20min test and take a percentage of that. I have heard people use 92 to 95%. So if you did 200watts for 20 minutes -> 200 * .95 = 190 watts for 60 minutes. This is an approximation. This is probably what you are doing. Another way is to do a 5min test and a 20min and use the two to project a 60 minute. Some say this is a bit more accurate. This is what the guys above are doing. There are a few other protocols. For example one that is "fun" is a ramp test where you increase power slowly until you fail completely. What I like about this test is that there is no question if you pushed hard enough, you push until you fail. But this test requires a computrainer. This one was designed by Rick Sterns and I think is called a MAP test. You could do a blood lactic threshold test and get it that way as well. There is one based on a 2x20' set But these are all "estimates" of your true 60min FTP. The only accurate way to measure it is to do a 60min TT Marc - how does that MAP test work? I could likely do it on my Tacx trainer as well. As for me, the 5min tests are tough, but the 20min is tougher. It's that middle 10min where you start to question the wattage you've targeted, and how the hell you're going to hang on till the end. And yeah, the wife can hear me yelling at myself in the basement to suck it up over the last few minutes... |
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![]() | ![]() KansasMom - 2013-01-16 7:52 AM axteraa - 2013-01-16 8:47 AM I have. I attribute it to clutching my water bottle, which is one reason I don't carry water. (In addition to the sloshing sound driving me batty.) So, yes, tension, for me.bzgl40 - 2013-01-16 10:02 AM Finally doesn't feel like the arctic out there. Run will have to wait though since I have an early morning presentation. Good things arms are not that involved in running as I kind of trashed them a bit during strength training this morning. On that note.... does anyone ever get sore/tired arms while running? I've had it happen to me a few times, usually during a hard run. It's usually my triceps and biceps that are affected. To me, this suggests upper body tension that is probably wasting energy? Any time it has happened, I try to think about relaxing a bit but it's usually too late by then. I spend a lot of time thinking about relaxing the shoulders. It is not natural just yet, but as long as I think about it then I tend to do ok. Speaking of not carrying water, my last run I didn't but I think that is the edge of what I can handle. Sometimes I forget about water cause I often run by some water stations but not too many of those out in the woods. |
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![]() | ![]() I have decided I need a new, real, trainer. Mine is ok but it is basically just a travel trainer meant to warm up at races and what not. I do not want to spend a lot of money (I am already in a lot of trouble over the rollers I am too scared to use). Any recommendations? I am thinking it might be between Kinetic or Cycleops, but really those are just the brands I hear about the most |
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![]() | ![]() KansasMom - 2013-01-16 7:56 AM I have one boy home sick. He's been in bed for four days now. I am fighting it off, but losing. I managed my swim yesterday and then crashed. I am hoping to have enough energy after class today to get some kind of run in. It is supposed to warm up a little today, so I turned off the heat, opened the windows a little, and told Ben to stay cuddled up in bed. I hope to get those nasty germs out of the house. Hum, if it is flu you think your getting I'd skip the run and give your body a chance at fighting it off. If it's a cold then have fun. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() axteraa - 2013-01-16 8:47 AM bzgl40 - 2013-01-16 10:02 AM Finally doesn't feel like the arctic out there. Run will have to wait though since I have an early morning presentation. Good things arms are not that involved in running as I kind of trashed them a bit during strength training this morning. On that note.... does anyone ever get sore/tired arms while running? I've had it happen to me a few times, usually during a hard run. It's usually my triceps and biceps that are affected. To me, this suggests upper body tension that is probably wasting energy? Any time it has happened, I try to think about relaxing a bit but it's usually too late by then. Those muscles don't really do much, so likely is tension. Can you relax and shake your arms out every few minutes? I'll get tired up the trapezius area on longer runs or when I've been doing a lot of swimming or biking in aero. This area can feel it quite a bit later in an HIM. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bzgl40 - 2013-01-16 9:03 AM I have decided I need a new, real, trainer. Mine is ok but it is basically just a travel trainer meant to warm up at races and what not. I do not want to spend a lot of money (I am already in a lot of trouble over the rollers I am too scared to use). Any recommendations? I am thinking it might be between Kinetic or Cycleops, but really those are just the brands I hear about the most The Road Machine & Fluid 2 are heard about most because they're both very solid trainers. There isn't much of a middle ground from there. Just jumps way up to something like a computrainer or similar ones out or coming out. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() GoFaster - 2013-01-16 9:00 AM Marc - how does that MAP test work? I could likely do it on my Tacx trainer as well. Warmup and then start at a given wattage and increase 25watts/min. You should do something like 12.5 every 30 seconds You take the average of the last minute that is your MAP Take 72-75% of that, that's your FTP If your FTP is 250, your MAP will be around 333. So start at 140 and go up 12.5 watts every 30 seconds. After 10min you will be at 390w. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() brigby1 - 2013-01-16 10:20 AM bzgl40 - 2013-01-16 9:03 AM I have decided I need a new, real, trainer. Mine is ok but it is basically just a travel trainer meant to warm up at races and what not. I do not want to spend a lot of money (I am already in a lot of trouble over the rollers I am too scared to use). Any recommendations? I am thinking it might be between Kinetic or Cycleops, but really those are just the brands I hear about the most The Road Machine & Fluid 2 are heard about most because they're both very solid trainers. There isn't much of a middle ground from there. Just jumps way up to something like a computrainer or similar ones out or coming out. I have been using a Fluid 2 for years and years and have loved it. Recently it sounds like a bearing has gone out in it and I am going to see what I can do to get it repaired by cycleops. If I can get it repaired I will just leave it at school - I usually cart it back and forth with me. It travels really, really well, but it will be nice to have one less thing to lug around. As a replacement I actually just purchased a Kurt Kinetic yesterday, mainly because it has an option to add an additional 12lb flywheel - the one time I road one with it I thought it was really nice for longer intervals. My wife has a Cycleops Fluid Pro and I like it better than the fluid 2 - better feel when riding and the mount is easier to adjust than the fluid 2. if It does not stop raining here soon I will let you know what I think of the KK a little later today.... |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() brigby1 - 2013-01-16 9:20 AM bzgl40 - 2013-01-16 9:03 AM I have decided I need a new, real, trainer. Mine is ok but it is basically just a travel trainer meant to warm up at races and what not. I do not want to spend a lot of money (I am already in a lot of trouble over the rollers I am too scared to use). Any recommendations? I am thinking it might be between Kinetic or Cycleops, but really those are just the brands I hear about the most The Road Machine & Fluid 2 are heard about most because they're both very solid trainers. There isn't much of a middle ground from there. Just jumps way up to something like a computrainer or similar ones out or coming out.
While both are mentioned as the better choices, Kinetic seems to get better comments from the guys at TrainerRoad. Apparently the Virtual power curve is a little more predictable. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() brigby1 - 2013-01-16 10:20 AM bzgl40 - 2013-01-16 9:03 AM I have decided I need a new, real, trainer. Mine is ok but it is basically just a travel trainer meant to warm up at races and what not. I do not want to spend a lot of money (I am already in a lot of trouble over the rollers I am too scared to use). Any recommendations? I am thinking it might be between Kinetic or Cycleops, but really those are just the brands I hear about the most The Road Machine & Fluid 2 are heard about most because they're both very solid trainers. There isn't much of a middle ground from there. Just jumps way up to something like a computrainer or similar ones out or coming out. I really like my Fluid2. Very solid. First one I got had a leak after a few months. They replaced it quickly, no questions asked. This one has been rock solid for a few years with no signs of slowing down. |
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Melon Presser ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() axteraa - 2013-01-16 10:47 PM bzgl40 - 2013-01-16 10:02 AM Finally doesn't feel like the arctic out there. Run will have to wait though since I have an early morning presentation. Good things arms are not that involved in running as I kind of trashed them a bit during strength training this morning. On that note.... does anyone ever get sore/tired arms while running? I've had it happen to me a few times, usually during a hard run. It's usually my triceps and biceps that are affected. To me, this suggests upper body tension that is probably wasting energy? Any time it has happened, I try to think about relaxing a bit but it's usually too late by then. Used to but then I got a better sports bra Don't wear your shoulders as earrings; run tall. You could try setting an interval alarm on your watch literally just to remind you to relax and run smoothly. Do you swing your arms a lot when you run? (Technically this should not make a difference but it might be causing your upper body to move more and over many running cycles that could be wasting energy). |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() marcag - 2013-01-16 10:57 AM brigby1 - 2013-01-16 9:20 AM bzgl40 - 2013-01-16 9:03 AM I have decided I need a new, real, trainer. Mine is ok but it is basically just a travel trainer meant to warm up at races and what not. I do not want to spend a lot of money (I am already in a lot of trouble over the rollers I am too scared to use). Any recommendations? I am thinking it might be between Kinetic or Cycleops, but really those are just the brands I hear about the most The Road Machine & Fluid 2 are heard about most because they're both very solid trainers. There isn't much of a middle ground from there. Just jumps way up to something like a computrainer or similar ones out or coming out.
While both are mentioned as the better choices, Kinetic seems to get better comments from the guys at TrainerRoad. Apparently the Virtual power curve is a little more predictable. I used an older Fluid 2 before switching to KK Road Machine a few years ago. The Fluid 2 was good but seemed to take some time to 'warm-up' before the tension on the roller became consistent. I have no complaints with the KK..very smooth trainer. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() KeriKadi - 2013-01-15 1:31 PM Looks like a few of us are getting back to something. What is the weather like in your neck of the woods? OK, I am finally at a PC that I can type from. I feel kinda bad, but it was 64* this morning when running, before sunrise. 80* by mid afternoon. Sorry if anyone feels some anger coming over them. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() brigby1 - 2013-01-16 11:18 AM axteraa - 2013-01-16 8:47 AM bzgl40 - 2013-01-16 10:02 AM Finally doesn't feel like the arctic out there. Run will have to wait though since I have an early morning presentation. Good things arms are not that involved in running as I kind of trashed them a bit during strength training this morning. On that note.... does anyone ever get sore/tired arms while running? I've had it happen to me a few times, usually during a hard run. It's usually my triceps and biceps that are affected. To me, this suggests upper body tension that is probably wasting energy? Any time it has happened, I try to think about relaxing a bit but it's usually too late by then. Those muscles don't really do much, so likely is tension. Can you relax and shake your arms out every few minutes? I'll get tired up the trapezius area on longer runs or when I've been doing a lot of swimming or biking in aero. This area can feel it quite a bit later in an HIM. This is what I try to do when it happens but as I said, often too late by then. The problem for me is that it's not a common occurrence so I never think to do anything preventative. I'll have to try to remember it for hard runs in the future. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() TriAya - 2013-01-16 12:07 PM axteraa - 2013-01-16 10:47 PM bzgl40 - 2013-01-16 10:02 AM Finally doesn't feel like the arctic out there. Run will have to wait though since I have an early morning presentation. Good things arms are not that involved in running as I kind of trashed them a bit during strength training this morning. On that note.... does anyone ever get sore/tired arms while running? I've had it happen to me a few times, usually during a hard run. It's usually my triceps and biceps that are affected. To me, this suggests upper body tension that is probably wasting energy? Any time it has happened, I try to think about relaxing a bit but it's usually too late by then. Used to but then I got a better sports bra Don't wear your shoulders as earrings; run tall. You could try setting an interval alarm on your watch literally just to remind you to relax and run smoothly. Do you swing your arms a lot when you run? (Technically this should not make a difference but it might be causing your upper body to move more and over many running cycles that could be wasting energy). I'm actually more inclined to think that I don't swing my arms much at all and it's the tension of holding them in place that might be causing it. I like the run tall thought. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Made it to the pool 3 days in a row...might be a record for me...not long swims though. It was 29 degrees and there was so much steam coming off the (outdoor) pool that I couldn't see the guy in the next lane. We had a great conversation through the fog though I have been stopping in at the gym after I swim to stretch and do some core. I have been consistent with this 3x per week for the past few months, that streak came to an end today. The gym was hot & stuffy as usual but I paused for a moment on the way in and all I could hear was coughing and hacking. I noticed one girl sneeze on the yoga mat then roll it up. I picked up my bag and came home and did the same routine in the safety of my clean house! |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() axteraa - 2013-01-16 8:25 AM TriAya - 2013-01-16 12:07 PM axteraa - 2013-01-16 10:47 PM bzgl40 - 2013-01-16 10:02 AM Finally doesn't feel like the arctic out there. Run will have to wait though since I have an early morning presentation. Good things arms are not that involved in running as I kind of trashed them a bit during strength training this morning. On that note.... does anyone ever get sore/tired arms while running? I've had it happen to me a few times, usually during a hard run. It's usually my triceps and biceps that are affected. To me, this suggests upper body tension that is probably wasting energy? Any time it has happened, I try to think about relaxing a bit but it's usually too late by then. Used to but then I got a better sports bra Don't wear your shoulders as earrings; run tall. You could try setting an interval alarm on your watch literally just to remind you to relax and run smoothly. Do you swing your arms a lot when you run? (Technically this should not make a difference but it might be causing your upper body to move more and over many running cycles that could be wasting energy). I'm actually more inclined to think that I don't swing my arms much at all and it's the tension of holding them in place that might be causing it. I like the run tall thought. Very likely, we tease my son that he has T Rex arms when he runs (he has a beautiful long stride and runs very "tall") but as soon as he tries to adjust his upper body, everything gets out of whack. Could it also be the cold? I notice that I am very tense on the bike in the cold and it sometimes hurts between my shoulders...I have to remind myself to relax. Maybe set a timer on your watch for every mile or 5 minutes to remind yourself to relax the shoulders. A tri coach once told me that if your upper body hurts when running or your legs hurt when swimming...you are doing it wrong ;-) |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() marcag - 2013-01-16 10:22 AM GoFaster - 2013-01-16 9:00 AM Marc - how does that MAP test work? I could likely do it on my Tacx trainer as well. Warmup and then start at a given wattage and increase 25watts/min. You should do something like 12.5 every 30 seconds You take the average of the last minute that is your MAP Take 72-75% of that, that's your FTP If your FTP is 250, your MAP will be around 333. So start at 140 and go up 12.5 watts every 30 seconds. After 10min you will be at 390w. Ugh - 25watts per minute would hurt!! |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() GoFaster - 2013-01-16 10:33 AM marcag - 2013-01-16 10:22 AM GoFaster - 2013-01-16 9:00 AM Marc - how does that MAP test work? I could likely do it on my Tacx trainer as well. Warmup and then start at a given wattage and increase 25watts/min. You should do something like 12.5 every 30 seconds You take the average of the last minute that is your MAP Take 72-75% of that, that's your FTP If your FTP is 250, your MAP will be around 333. So start at 140 and go up 12.5 watts every 30 seconds. After 10min you will be at 390w. Ugh - 25watts per minute would hurt!!
Trust me. This test hurts less than the 20' test. The pain is much shorter lived and there is always a "i can do a little more, one more step" rather than "why are the clock hands stopped" |
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![]() 20' test in the books. Cursing my coach the whole way. Pace and power was pretty even and increasing. Set up a flat .50 mile course. First lap was 1:15, last few were 1:12s. Ave watts was 296, max of 344. I think I have this right, that FTP is 281, for a w/k of 3.4? (I weigh 193). Only prior tests were in 2011 and were 267 and 284, while doing Jorge's program. Questions for CT users. 1. I noticed the drag factor was 103% and it was too early to figure out what that meant, so I left it. Does this have a measurable effect? 2. Is it better, worse or indifferent whether you start stronger and lose wattage, or start lower and gain wattage? I ask because there is a thread on ST where the guy got a 300 FTP by holding on as it dropped. Mine started in the 260-70 range and went up from there. Sorry about the formatting. Damn iPhone. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Chris - I have been led to believe that the the way you are doing the 20 minute test (start strong but build steadily through the test, killing yourself at the end) gives you a better gauge of your 1 hour power than killing it at the beginning and hanging on. The second way is just using math to cheat a higher number which (despite the posturing that sometimes goes with it) is not the real aim of the test. When typing on an iPhone, iPad, etc, typing <p> between each paragraph is your friend. Adding </p> at the end of each paragraph is good HTML practice, but it will work just fine without it. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Oh, and awesome test, BTW! |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() On the trainer topic, I have used a Cycleops Fluid 2, a Cycleops Jet Pro and a KK Road machine and a cheap POS magnetic one that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. In order of preference I would say the KK, then the Jet Pro and then the Fluid 2 although I would be happy with any of them. I find the KK more consistent in resistance. The two Cycleops both needed to get warmed up before the resistance felt right. The only reason I would pick the Jet Pro over the Fluid 2 is the way it tightened to the wheel. |
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