SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN (Page 47)

All good points.  We don't have so many potholes in TX, but we do have a lot of rough, chipsealed roads, which have caused spokes to break or loosen up enough that my husband's race wheels have been out of true WAY more than my crappy training wheels.

I suppose my best bet it is to take some time to get used to how the wheels react in various situations, and then use them specifically for races (and a few pre-race rides).  The bike just looks so pretty with the new wheels

THAT is awesome!  I'm apparently reading the HIM version of the same (witness my post asking a stoopid question about racing the week prior). 

As to the comments on that ask, thanks all.  I really just wanted to race WITH my buddies, not because any of them are silly enough to be doing both races.  One of those things where I hate to miss a party (well, at least a race), especially when I have a bunch of friends in it.  Kinda knew the answer before I asked, but hope springs eternal.

Were the HIM a local, non-A, perhaps shorter race (and it's an "A" more because it's my first, not from a results expectation standpoint), I'd do both, as in that case I wouldn't care as much about the results as the experience.  However, I completely take the point that having the local sprint experience will alter the HIM experience (and not in a way with which I'd be happy!).  The situation here dictates against.

Thanks for talking me back from the silly-ledge.

Now I just have to keep telling myself not to think about time, but rather to focus on my effort during the race (NOT how I typically approach a race, but I get that's how to perform best at this).

Brings to mind an observation that's been rattling around but only just crystalized for me on the different distances.  One thing I really like about road races and shorter tris (with either fewer total waves or big AG's, especially) is that you can race people - you can actually see where you and they are on the course and compete directly.  It *seems* that HIM and IM (having not yet done one, admittedly) are really more individual time trials unless you're at the very top of either the whole field or your AG.  The courses are so long and with sooooo many waves that you just can't tell where you are overall, so have to run your own race (unless you're lucky enough to be coming down the chute with a fellow AG-er, which could happen).

I like to race myself, but I also get a kick out of direct competition.  I'm curious to see what the HIM is like.  For those with more experience (just about all of you), any thoughts/observations on this?

Matt

Originally posted by marcag Hey Matt, FYI, since we have established our HR is around the same areas Here is my power/HR from tremblant which I would say was a poorly executed bike Average HR was 140 for the entire ride. A little low. I would have wanted another 10watts or another 3BPM roughly As you can see, HR is a little higher coming off the swim even if power is in the right spot, so expect that Look at the spikes above the 300w line, those were not supposed to be. You can see HR only goes to 150 or so. So try to keep HR in a tight range if you can

It's somewhat surprising to me that a number of your power spikes actually look like they're on downhill sections....managed to keep yourself in check on the climb and then let loose on the descent, I guess.

In regards to power targets and VI and whatnot, do the times when you are (significantly) below your target power concern you?  Obviously, the closer you stay to it (on the downhill sections), the faster you are....but on hilly courses like that, I imagine running out of gears becomes an issue.  But what I'm getting at -- obviously you don't want to have large spikes above your target power, but does a high VI due to large "valleys" contribute to a crap run afterward?  Or is going above power targets the only thing that concerns you?

The paragraph above is all the proverbial "you"....not just directed to Marc

I can't hardly tell where I'm at in most any of the races I've done.

What happens with me, and looks like may apply to Marc, as the power surges appear to come at the intesection of a descent and climb/roller, is that if there is a roller or an uphill as part of an overall descent, I tend to try to maintain as large a gear as I can, and often that causes huge power surges as you come off the downhill and pedal into the uphill.  This also wreaks havoc on the VI going fro 0 to 300+.  Especially true for me, as when I get over 25-26, I stop pedaling (partly because I have a 50/12 as my largest gear, partly because I am a wuss).  Generally, the higher the VI the more power surges you've had (as I understand it.....), which can affect the run.

OK, that makes sense...   The goal for the race, as my last long rides, is to ride at the target watts and feel like I am not working my legs.  Sometimes it even works

Getting the VI down as close to 1 as possible.   I agree with this.....

VI should be low, but AP=NP is not always going to be the best. It depends on the course and the rider. I do better with a little variability in there. Otherwise I get "stuck" in one spot and it gets hard to keep doing exactly the same thing. Then there is budgeting the power output over different terrain. You get more out of a given effort going uphill than down. That doesn't mean spike it, but some up and down per the given terrain can actually be helpful.

I find that AP and NP separate from two things. Both were mentioned, but spikes are what can drive NP up faster than AP. Coasting (zero's) will cause AP to fall off faster than NP. I get separation due to this second one even when I manage spikes well. And is also why they don't separate much in my trainer sessions even though there are decent surges all over (but no true sprint spikes). At least within the 20-30 minute blocks I'm thinking of. There is no coasting in them.

What kind of wave placement have you had? The only ones I've known have been way up in front to start off. In the back and I have no idea. I'll know how my performance is, but nothing on placement.

This is how I do it, though I use T1, probably because I'm a crap swimmer. I wanna see a lot of bikes on the racks;) lol. T2, that bike rack better be freakin empty!

This is another one of those things that is easier for women, as there are just fewer of us in the race.

x3

In my experience, racing hard and recovering from in is hard to tell until you try to go at race effort again.  For example, I have done a 40k TT the week after a HIM the past 2 years.  Both times I felt like my legs were recovered for the TT...but I didn't realize they weren't until I tried to go race effort again.  Both TTs were poor performances.

On the contrary, earlier this year I did a mock 40k TT the day after doing an easy 15 mile long run at a very easy effort.  When I showed up to that TT, my legs didn't exactly feel that great, but I performed really well.  I *think* this is because even though I had a little residual fatigue from the long run the day before, I had not "gone deep" in a race effort the week before.  So in essence, my race effort book of matches had not been burned up yet.  But that's really hard to tell how many race effort matches you have left simply by how your legs feel when you wake up in the morning or walking around.

Chris, you can somewhat calculate VI in your head by comparing your AP to your NP.  I don't know what the exact calculation is as it's not something I've really paid attention to while riding.  I haven't done a lot of tris where there are sharp climbs and screaming (coasting) descents so it's not really something I've had to plan for...yet.

But don't get too caught up in the numbers.  It shouldn't be that difficult to get close to your target TSS, IF, and VI so long as you stick to a general game plan (that your coach prescribes) and don't do anything stupid.  Even though I don't look at IF while riding, nor calculate VI...I can usually have a pretty good guess as to what it is before I even see the numbers on my computer.  Rarely do I ride and I'm shocked that my TSS, VI, or IF was much lower or higher than I thought it was.

Funny how that works out

CTFD

I love this idea!  Thanks.

As for telling where I am in a race, I guess it's different for AG and overall.  For AG, I look at how many of my color caps are in front while sighting, bikes in T1 if by AG, then count AG passes/passed on the bike (well, I try - sometimes get a big foggy mid-race), if it's out and back that really helps, # of bikes in T2, then passes/passed on the run.  If it's an out and back course, even just for a portion by the turn, that really helps.

I've had an idea of where I fell in my AG in 2 of the 4 tri's this year, and a couple of times had contests on the run (either one person or a several person sprint across the line).  Those were more about individual contests, as you're right that you don't know the overall.

As for the overall, I have had NO idea, really.  That kinda plays with my head!  When I'm racing against a person, and I know it, I dig deeper (a more visceral contest).  When I'm racing because there might be someone three waves up or seven waves back who has or eventually will finish in less time - well, it's tougher for me to turn myself inside out for the "maybe." 

If I can see anyone - ANYONE - in front of me (or coming up from behind), that's when I find my strongest kick.

Maybe others are better at self-motivation, but I find the direct human contest the most compelling.  And fun. 

That said, this upcoming HIM is going to be a time trial - I just want to turn in my best for the day on my first go-round.  If I get caught up in racing anywhere except the last mile, I'm in trouble!

Matt

So say you were shooting for an NP of X.  For one race, you did a good job of not overshooting your power target, but you did a rather significant amount of coasting for some reason, and you came in at an NP of X-Y.  You are below your NP budget, but your VI is rather high.

Then you had a race where you rode almost perfectly and you came in and nailed your NP target of X.

Which race do you have your better run?  The one where you had a lower NP (X-Y), but higher VI?  Or the one where you had your budged NP (X) and a VI=1? 

I get that this is completely hypothetical and this would literally never happen....I'm just curious. 

I've done a grand total of two races where everyone didn't start all at the same time.  One was MT 70.3 and the other was a few years ago when they separated us into a men's and women's wave for a sprint.  Anything over 150 racers is a big race around here!

As such, I usually know exactly where I am in the race.  Typically I swim at or near the front and then I just have to count the number of bikes that go by me.  

Every race I've done was either a mass start, or I was in the first wave.  I usually swim somewhere in the middle, and pass a whole bunch of people on the bike.  So I usually know where I am in the race as well (at least as far as AG).  I just wait till the last turnaround on the bike and count how many people are still in front of me.  For smaller races, I usually don't need to count that high...but for a WTC race I get a general idea.

For Kona though...I'll know where I am when I get to Hawi...and I'll count how many people are still behind me coming the other way...shouldn't be that many...