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Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. (Page 48)
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 2014-02-11 2:29 PM in reply to: dtoce |
Extreme Veteran  5722   |  Subject: RE: Cadence/EfficiencyOriginally posted by dtoce Originally posted by ligersandtions For my 101% intervals, I was in one gear harder, holding a cadence of 89 - 90. If I'd stayed in that gear for the 95% interval, my cadence would have been in the low 80's, which isn't within my preferred range....so I dropped down to one gear easier, which required a cadence of 96 - 97 if I wanted to hold the prescribed power. Needless to say, my legs just weren't up to spinning that fast. This brings up another question...are we going to get any enlightenment regarding quadrant analysis, cadence and pedal stroke/crank torque? It seems that this is something that we look at, compare to when racing and then try to match training to fit the courses races, no? There is no other usefulness that I see other than seeing if you are a 'masher' or 'spinner' and that data is fairly apparent by our 'self selected cadence'. Time permitting, sure. Probably a few more interesting topics but we will see. |
| 2014-02-11 2:34 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Master 3888    Overland Park, KS | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Finally got to Week 5! TH1 is done. For the main set (5x5') the workout called for power at I decided to above FTP starting at 103% and increased, last set was at 111% of FTP. When I look at the main set, it's like a broken 20' test to me. Sets 3 through 5 were not easy, especially the last one and if I could maintain the power in my next 20' test at that level, that would be an increase of nearly 5%, hmmmm. (WK5 TH1 Ride.JPG) Attachments ---------------- WK5 TH1 Ride.JPG (54KB - 3 downloads) WK5 TH1.csv (180KB - 3 downloads) |
| 2014-02-11 3:14 PM in reply to: reecealan |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training three of those intervals are in VO2max range. The first two are at the very top of Z4. You are going to blow away your old numbers |
| 2014-02-11 4:25 PM in reply to: marcag |
Master 3888 Overland Park, KS | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Originally posted by marcag three of those intervals are in VO2max range. The first two are at the very top of Z4. You are going to blow away your old numbers I sure hope so, I'll keep plugging away. This is my first winter of focused bike training so it will be interesting to see how well I do year over year. I was looking at that Stages PM mentioned in that Power thread. I don't know if I'm balance L/R but my pedal strokes were very even during my Retul fit a year or so ago. How do I make sure I'm a good candidate for the Stages? Of course I have an FSA Gossamer Crankset so I'd have to buy a new one. The more I read, the more I think Quarq is a good way to go. |
| 2014-02-11 4:51 PM in reply to: reecealan |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Originally posted by reecealan Originally posted by marcag three of those intervals are in VO2max range. The first two are at the very top of Z4. You are going to blow away your old numbers I sure hope so, I'll keep plugging away. This is my first winter of focused bike training so it will be interesting to see how well I do year over year. I was looking at that Stages PM mentioned in that Power thread. I don't know if I'm balance L/R but my pedal strokes were very even during my Retul fit a year or so ago. How do I make sure I'm a good candidate for the Stages? Of course I have an FSA Gossamer Crankset so I'd have to buy a new one. The more I read, the more I think Quarq is a good way to go. The only way to know is to have a PM or Computrainer that measures your L and R. What is the price difference between a Stages and a Power2Max ? I have never tried P2Max, but people seem to be pretty happy with them. |
| 2014-02-11 5:20 PM in reply to: 0 |
Master 3888 Overland Park, KS | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by reecealan Originally posted by marcag three of those intervals are in VO2max range. The first two are at the very top of Z4. You are going to blow away your old numbers I sure hope so, I'll keep plugging away. This is my first winter of focused bike training so it will be interesting to see how well I do year over year. I was looking at that Stages PM mentioned in that Power thread. I don't know if I'm balance L/R but my pedal strokes were very even during my Retul fit a year or so ago. How do I make sure I'm a good candidate for the Stages? Of course I have an FSA Gossamer Crankset so I'd have to buy a new one. The more I read, the more I think Quarq is a good way to go. The only way to know is to have a PM or Computrainer that measures your L and R. What is the price difference between a Stages and a Power2Max ? I have never tried P2Max, but people seem to be pretty happy with them. DC Rainmaker wrote something up a little over a year ago. http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/01/power2max-power-meter-in-depth-r... Then is was $879 less cranks. Here's the website. http://www.power2max.com/northamerica/Produkt/most-popular/power2ma... Looks like a full setup will be over $1,000. Edited by reecealan 2014-02-11 5:22 PM |
| 2014-02-11 5:29 PM in reply to: marcag |
Veteran 441 Maine | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by reecealan Originally posted by marcag three of those intervals are in VO2max range. The first two are at the very top of Z4. You are going to blow away your old numbers I sure hope so, I'll keep plugging away. This is my first winter of focused bike training so it will be interesting to see how well I do year over year. I was looking at that Stages PM mentioned in that Power thread. I don't know if I'm balance L/R but my pedal strokes were very even during my Retul fit a year or so ago. How do I make sure I'm a good candidate for the Stages? Of course I have an FSA Gossamer Crankset so I'd have to buy a new one. The more I read, the more I think Quarq is a good way to go. The only way to know is to have a PM or Computrainer that measures your L and R. What is the price difference between a Stages and a Power2Max ? I have never tried P2Max, but people seem to be pretty happy with them. I looked at both the Stages and Power2Max, I ended up getting the Power2Max for a few reasons. -There was a concern about clearance between the rear brack (behind the BB on the B16) and the strain gauge on the the Stages. -I liked having L/R power measurements. It's not true L/R on the P2M but close. From what I understand it's a calculated value based on pedal position, therefor if you are pulling up with the opposite foot that power will be calculated to the drive foot. For my purpose it fine. -Also, I would have had mismatched crank arms with the Stages or I would have had to replace the crank which would have gotten me close to the P2M price anyway. The Stages started at $700 and Power2Max started at $900 for what I was looking at. I ended up just over 1K with the P2M Gossamer, Praxis rings and a new BB. I've been very happy with the P2M, no problems and it seems to be consistent. Paired up with my Garmins, TR and GC all without issues. I did order a bunch of spare batteries just to keep in my toolbox since they are not the usual 2032s. I'm also going to order a spare set of o-rings to keep on hand when I get around to it. |
| 2014-02-11 5:41 PM in reply to: reecealan |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Originally posted by reecealan DC Rainmaker wrote something up a little over a year ago. http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/01/power2max-power-meter-in-depth-r... Then is was $879 less cranks. Here's the website. http://www.power2max.com/northamerica/Produkt/most-popular/power2ma... Looks like a full setup will be over $1,000. Ya, looks like $899 with cranks + chain rings, although couldn't you use your existing rings ? |
| 2014-02-11 7:36 PM in reply to: marcag |
Regular 389 | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Finished Week 6 Thr#1 this afternoon outside. TSS-108 & NP 214. Since i'm in week 1 of training for IMCDA and have a sprint a little less than a month away decided to knock out a brick run of 4 miles/28:40 after. Felt fairly good. My bike legs are coming around and I'm hoping to see a fairly big leap of my CP of 222. Tom |
| 2014-02-11 8:50 PM in reply to: marcag |
Veteran 441 Maine | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by reecealan DC Rainmaker wrote something up a little over a year ago. http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/01/power2max-power-meter-in-depth-r... Then is was $879 less cranks. Here's the website. http://www.power2max.com/northamerica/Produkt/most-popular/power2ma... Looks like a full setup will be over $1,000. Ya, looks like $899 with cranks + chain rings, although couldn't you use your existing rings ? In most cases you can use your existing rings. I think I recall a few exceptions, some aero rings and Q-rings. They are very responsive to email queries and there is also an Power2Max thread on ST that they keep track of. |
| 2014-02-11 10:00 PM in reply to: cdkayak |
Member 258 | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Well, I took 3 days off completely for travel over the weekend, sandwiched between 2 necessarily easy days, did Week 6 Threshold 1 today and....HOLY COW! IT WAS LIKE I HAD LEGS AGAIN!!!! I was actually hitting my numbers for the first time in weeks! I wasn't having to bribe myself to finish the last 2 intervals! Not that it was easy, mind you, it just wasn't impossibly hard. :) I am thinking I just really needed that little break. It is hard to take into account the stress from running, and work, and germs, and life in the total stress score. Hopefully I didn't screw myself up for testing next week, but I'm happy for one of the first times in my life I recognized I was "over my head" and was able to just take a rest BEFORE I got injured or sick. That is real progress for me. Jaime Attachments ---------------- cstoker-2014-02-11-bt-power-week-6-thr-1-733858.tcx (2003KB - 2 downloads) |
| 2014-02-11 10:18 PM in reply to: ligersandtions |
| 1053 | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Week 6 threshold 1 done. TSS 105, NP 260. I am feeling my fitness kicking in after these few weeks. Its not that the workouts are getting easy, I am still hating life halfway through some of these intervals, but afterwards I am not nearly as exhausted. File is attached. (TH1wk6.png) Attachments ---------------- activity_443874097.tcx (551KB - 2 downloads) TH1wk6.png (73KB - 2 downloads) |
| 2014-02-12 6:57 AM in reply to: RunningJoke |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Originally posted by RunningJoke Well, I took 3 days off completely for travel over the weekend, sandwiched between 2 necessarily easy days, did Week 6 Threshold 1 today and....HOLY COW! IT WAS LIKE I HAD LEGS AGAIN!!!! I was actually hitting my numbers for the first time in weeks! I wasn't having to bribe myself to finish the last 2 intervals! Not that it was easy, mind you, it just wasn't impossibly hard.  I am thinking I just really needed that little break. It is hard to take into account the stress from running, and work, and germs, and life in the total stress score. Hopefully I didn't screw myself up for testing next week, but I'm happy for one of the first times in my life I recognized I was "over my head" and was able to just take a rest BEFORE I got injured or sick. That is real progress for me. Jaime A couple of things Last year I travelled a lot, like 140,000 air miles, and I noticed that when I was off the bike for a week I would come back much stronger. You probably just needed some time away You should not all the workouts you have done in the last little while. Keep your log well up to date. Chances are your CP may be a little high, but to be able to quantify the workload that put you in a deficit may be very useful for avoiding it or controlling it in the future. |
| 2014-02-12 7:36 AM in reply to: marcag |
Veteran 945 South Windsor, CT | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by RunningJoke Well, I took 3 days off completely for travel over the weekend, sandwiched between 2 necessarily easy days, did Week 6 Threshold 1 today and....HOLY COW! IT WAS LIKE I HAD LEGS AGAIN!!!! I was actually hitting my numbers for the first time in weeks! I wasn't having to bribe myself to finish the last 2 intervals! Not that it was easy, mind you, it just wasn't impossibly hard. I am thinking I just really needed that little break. It is hard to take into account the stress from running, and work, and germs, and life in the total stress score. Hopefully I didn't screw myself up for testing next week, but I'm happy for one of the first times in my life I recognized I was "over my head" and was able to just take a rest BEFORE I got injured or sick. That is real progress for me. Jaime A couple of things Last year I travelled a lot, like 140,000 air miles, and I noticed that when I was off the bike for a week I would come back much stronger. You probably just needed some time away You should not all the workouts you have done in the last little while. Keep your log well up to date. Chances are your CP may be a little high, but to be able to quantify the workload that put you in a deficit may be very useful for avoiding it or controlling it in the future. Jamie- You should also check your PMC-you should be aware as to what load put you at/over the edge and needing a break so you can adjust workout load in the future. Specifically check your TSB-training stress balance as you were probably negative for a while, with the volume of bike workouts recently, so note the actual volume/type of workouts and what the weekly TSS was, that put you there along with what the actual TSB number was. Keeping the log up to date, as Marc pointed out, will help for the future...but knowing the TSB specifically will be key. |
| 2014-02-12 8:23 AM in reply to: marcag |
| Oakville | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Its been a challenging few days... 18 km run on Sunday, VO2-1 workout Monday and Threshold1 workout last night. An 8 km run tonight will feel like a day off. But then right back at it... speedwork on Thursday and VO2-2 workout Friday. THR1 workout attached. 96 TSS and so I was slightly over the targets for all of the segments. I believe that is the highest TSS workout I've ever done on the trainer. Attachments ---------------- WK6THR1.tcx (2860KB - 2 downloads) |
| 2014-02-12 9:13 AM in reply to: dtoce |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Originally posted by dtoce Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by RunningJoke Well, I took 3 days off completely for travel over the weekend, sandwiched between 2 necessarily easy days, did Week 6 Threshold 1 today and....HOLY COW! IT WAS LIKE I HAD LEGS AGAIN!!!! I was actually hitting my numbers for the first time in weeks! I wasn't having to bribe myself to finish the last 2 intervals! Not that it was easy, mind you, it just wasn't impossibly hard. I am thinking I just really needed that little break. It is hard to take into account the stress from running, and work, and germs, and life in the total stress score. Hopefully I didn't screw myself up for testing next week, but I'm happy for one of the first times in my life I recognized I was "over my head" and was able to just take a rest BEFORE I got injured or sick. That is real progress for me. Jaime A couple of things Last year I travelled a lot, like 140,000 air miles, and I noticed that when I was off the bike for a week I would come back much stronger. You probably just needed some time away You should not all the workouts you have done in the last little while. Keep your log well up to date. Chances are your CP may be a little high, but to be able to quantify the workload that put you in a deficit may be very useful for avoiding it or controlling it in the future. Jamie- You should also check your PMC-you should be aware as to what load put you at/over the edge and needing a break so you can adjust workout load in the future. Specifically check your TSB-training stress balance as you were probably negative for a while, with the volume of bike workouts recently, so note the actual volume/type of workouts and what the weekly TSS was, that put you there along with what the actual TSB number was. Keeping the log up to date, as Marc pointed out, will help for the future...but knowing the TSB specifically will be key. One problem is that she does not measure this across the 3 sports so the TSB means little by itself. |
| 2014-02-12 9:39 AM in reply to: marcag |
Veteran 945 South Windsor, CT | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Originally posted by marcag One problem is that she does not measure this across the 3 sports so the TSB means little by itself. a terrific point-and anyone who does not have TP, like me, needs to just keep the log updated with all the stressors (run/swim)-along with other physical, mental stressors etc we are just discussing cycling here, so I just wanted her to be aware of the bike volume-but they certainly are all very important and contribute to the overall physical stress and fatigue I'm not sure that it 'means little by itself' as ~200 TSS points/week from biking is a lot for me personally, and probably for several others who may be putting in more time than they previously had at this time of the year, (winter bike focus) thanks to the excitement of a power meter. The TSB would be more valid if the other disciplines were held constant in terms of volume. For me, biking is a big piece of my training right now, for sure... |
| 2014-02-12 10:12 AM in reply to: RunningJoke |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Originally posted by RunningJoke Well, I took 3 days off completely for travel over the weekend, sandwiched between 2 necessarily easy days, did Week 6 Threshold 1 today and....HOLY COW! IT WAS LIKE I HAD LEGS AGAIN!!!! I was actually hitting my numbers for the first time in weeks! I wasn't having to bribe myself to finish the last 2 intervals! Not that it was easy, mind you, it just wasn't impossibly hard. I am thinking I just really needed that little break. It is hard to take into account the stress from running, and work, and germs, and life in the total stress score. Hopefully I didn't screw myself up for testing next week, but I'm happy for one of the first times in my life I recognized I was "over my head" and was able to just take a rest BEFORE I got injured or sick. That is real progress for me. Jaime Jaime, did you know that the week of Jan 27th, which I believe is the week you struggled the most with was the 2nd biggest week in terms of hours since Sept ? And I suspect that the bike intensity was way more than any previous weeks. I think you overloaded a bit. You seemed to have increased the swimming, you increased the running and you did these workouts. Do you ever use some of the BT charting features ? That last workout was really good. You were well into your Zone 4, well above any threshold work you've posted to date. For similar HR, you are 10 watts higher. On a CP of around 150, that is huge I don't think that workout will screw anything up. At the beginning of this session you did your 3 biggest weeks in a while and you needed to recover from them, which you seem to have., |
| 2014-02-12 10:33 AM in reply to: dtoce |
| 243 Lincoln, Nebraska | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training I need someone to explain to me like I'm a stupid monkey, why GC would lower my CP by more than 10 when I just had the highest 5 solid minutes of Watt output (since we've started this all) on today's workout? I thought it would bump up my CP, and that is why I pushed hard for 5 minutes of power on the bike this morning during the VO2 session. Do I have to also have a new 20 minute session to offset it? 5 minutes of pushing I like. 20 minutes just stinks. Additionally I have a race Saturday, so I won't do the other 2 workouts this week, but instead opt for different, easier/lighter ones. |
| 2014-02-12 11:06 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Originally posted by crissy_jo I need someone to explain to me like I'm a stupid monkey, why GC would lower my CP by more than 10 when I just had the highest 5 solid minutes of Watt output (since we've started this all) on today's workout? I thought it would bump up my CP, and that is why I pushed hard for 5 minutes of power on the bike this morning during the VO2 session. Do I have to also have a new 20 minute session to offset it? 5 minutes of pushing I like. 20 minutes just stinks. Additionally I have a race Saturday, so I won't do the other 2 workouts this week, but instead opt for different, easier/lighter ones. Are you saying you had an old 5' and an old 20' and an old CP ? You did a new 5' (higher), kept the old 20' and got a new lower CP ? If this is the case, yes it's normal but before explaining, confirm this is the case Is this from looking at the CP curve ? Edited by marcag 2014-02-12 11:07 AM |
| 2014-02-12 11:55 AM in reply to: marcag |
| 243 Lincoln, Nebraska | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Marc: Yes, you are correct. New 5' test, kept the original 20' test. I guess it is from the CP curve. I noticed the GC seems to automatically change my CP if any number are above the original plotted line. |
| 2014-02-12 12:32 PM in reply to: crissy_jo |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Originally posted by crissy_jo Marc: Yes, you are correct. New 5' test, kept the original 20' test. I guess it is from the CP curve. I noticed the GC seems to automatically change my CP if any number are above the original plotted line. OK, when you look at the CP curve, it shows you a newly calculated CP based on your workout data. However it does not change the CP that is stored and used to calculate the intensity of your workouts. It will not change your TSS, etc. That chart is just saying "based on the workout data I have, this would be your CP" The problem is that you improved your 5' but didn't retest your 20. Yes, this will drop your CP. Think of it this way. It thinks you held X watts for 5'. It look at how much that drops when going to 20' and projects how much it will drop going to 60' You just raised the 5' number so it sees a bigger drop between 5 and 20. so projects a bigger drop between 20 and 60. It bases it on the data it has. It's not smart enough to say "she improved on her 5, so she probably improved on her 20 and 60 as well" |
| 2014-02-12 1:08 PM in reply to: marcag |
| 243 Lincoln, Nebraska | Subject: RE: High Intensity Bike Training Marc, Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for explaining it to a dumb monkey. Now I'm more motivated to improve my 20 minute...just not motivated enough to do it right now. |
| 2014-02-12 2:30 PM in reply to: marcag |
Veteran 341 Orangevale, CA | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Did week 6 threshold 2 today. All I can say is OUCH! |
| 2014-02-12 3:30 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. I tried VO2-2....fail ! May I suggest you don't try to exceed targets. I went over CP for the warmup. I did the first 5' a few watts over target. I did the second a few watts below my previous 5' test I started the third and wimped out. I was so mad at myself, I went out and ran 14km as punishment. I got 100rTSS points there. Edited by marcag 2014-02-12 3:32 PM |
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