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2014-02-23 10:39 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Week 8
Originally posted by Jason N

First TT in the books.  Overall a good showing with small room for improvements.http://www.strava.com/activities/115624799/overview

10 miles
23:15 / 25.8 mph
294 AP/ 294 NP  VI =1.00

Good enough for 8th overall and 2nd in the Men 18-34 Cat 4/5.  I placed right about where I thought I would given the competition.

First half was 296 AP and second half was 297 AP, the turn around was 0 watts for 9 seconds which brought my AP down to 294.

I was closer to 291 AP at the 3/4 point, but had enough left in the tank (too much) and pushed it up to 294 by averaging 336 for the last 2 minutes.

I've got another TT next weekend...likely about 1.5-2 minutes longer in duration, but I should be able to squeeze out 300 I think.  It's point to point, so I don't lose any watts as there is no turn around. 




Holy smokes, that's some serious riding Jason. Nicely done! I'd like to try a TT someday, must be fun to let it all out knowing there's no run after the bike.


2014-02-24 9:52 AM
in reply to: reecealan

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Subject: RE: Week 8
Well, I went out for a trail run on Saturday with a new group and while it felt fine on Saturday, I woke up yesterday to find my quads had morphed into a pile of quivering goo. Seriously, I can barely walk. Stupid downhills.

I hope everyone else's week is off to a better start!

Jaime
2014-02-24 11:30 AM
in reply to: RunningJoke

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Subject: RE: Week 8
Did Week 8 Threshold 1 this morning. The new CP sure made it hurt a lot more than before. I have to get used to the new gearing to hit my power numbers for the segments.

My HIM is less than 5 weeks away, so I definitely need to get outside for some longer tempo rides to figure out my pacing.

- Chris
2014-02-24 10:21 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Week 8
Finally got Week 6 Sweet Spot done. Did the optional 5' at FTP. That was a tough workout, more mentally than physically. This is one of those workouts where during the first 20' you're wondering if you can even make two more even though the power isn't at or above FTP. I found my legs in the middle of the second 20' run.

TSS: 146
NP: 270

Looking forward to testing on Wednesday.



Edited by reecealan 2014-02-24 10:27 PM




(Wk6 SS ride.jpg)



Attachments
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Wk6 SS ride.jpg (51KB - 7 downloads)
Wk6 SS.csv (232KB - 6 downloads)
2014-02-24 10:43 PM
in reply to: reecealan


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Subject: RE: Week 8
Finished up testing this afternoon with the 5 min test. I paced this one way better than the first 5 min test.

5 Min Test Old: 271
5 Min Test New: 311

20 Min Test Old: 234
20 Min Test New: 254

CP Old: 222
CP New: 235

Like some of the other sprinters in the group, my ratio is even deeper in the sprinter category. Time to suffer out more threshold ride at a new higher CP.

Ron



(Week 7 5 Min Test.JPG)



Attachments
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Week 7 5 Min Test.JPG (81KB - 7 downloads)
Ron-2014-02-24-bt-power-week7-test-5-774704.tcx (1289KB - 16 downloads)
2014-02-25 5:20 AM
in reply to: croyston

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Subject: RE: Week 8
Originally posted by croyston

Did Week 8 Threshold 1 this morning. The new CP sure made it hurt a lot more than before. I have to get used to the new gearing to hit my power numbers for the segments.

My HIM is less than 5 weeks away, so I definitely need to get outside for some longer tempo rides to figure out my pacing.

- Chris


I always found i did best on HIM with multiple 3+hr rides under my belt. I find early season races are always a challenge with less volume in our bodies


2014-02-25 5:25 AM
in reply to: WaterRat

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Subject: RE: Week 8
Originally posted by WaterRat

Like some of the other sprinters in the group, my ratio is even deeper in the sprinter category.


The advantage of our 5' test having improved more is that our "roof" is now higher and we proceed to raising the ceiling.
The work we do to raise our roof is very different than what we race at. And we should be working more on race specific things as races approach. So to do the VO2 stuff early, get the results and move on to threshold, sweetspot and tempo makes a lot of sense.
2014-02-25 5:28 AM
in reply to: RunningJoke

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Subject: RE: Week 8
Originally posted by RunningJoke

Well, I went out for a trail run on Saturday with a new group and while it felt fine on Saturday, I woke up yesterday to find my quads had morphed into a pile of quivering goo. Seriously, I can barely walk. Stupid downhills.

I hope everyone else's week is off to a better start!

Jaime


I have been in Florida for a few days and the humidity has been brutal. What you hear about HR being variable due to dehydration and heat/humidity is so true. Fatigue can suppress HR. Heat /humidity can raise it. I am suffering from all of the above and my HR while running is all over the map. It's ok for cycling it seems but I have been doing my runs in the afternoon after riding.
2014-02-25 5:42 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Week 8
Week 8 Treshold 1 done. Didn't feel fun at all. The 10' intervals were definitely a bit harder this time.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/451232749





(2-25-14 Ride Details 1.PNG)



(2-25-14 Ride Details 2.PNG)



(2-25-14 Ride Graph.PNG)



Attachments
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2-25-14 Ride Details 1.PNG (41KB - 6 downloads)
2-25-14 Ride Details 2.PNG (28KB - 7 downloads)
2-25-14 Ride Graph.PNG (67KB - 8 downloads)
_2014-02-25-061612.fit (82KB - 2 downloads)
2014-02-25 7:54 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Week 8

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by RunningJoke Well, I went out for a trail run on Saturday with a new group and while it felt fine on Saturday, I woke up yesterday to find my quads had morphed into a pile of quivering goo. Seriously, I can barely walk. Stupid downhills. I hope everyone else's week is off to a better start! Jaime
I have been in Florida for a few days and the humidity has been brutal. What you hear about HR being variable due to dehydration and heat/humidity is so true. Fatigue can suppress HR. Heat /humidity can raise it. I am suffering from all of the above and my HR while running is all over the map. It's ok for cycling it seems but I have been doing my runs in the afternoon after riding.

Oooohhhh, maybe I should pick your brain about this a little bit.  How long are you in Florida?  

As you noted, HR for a given RPE is higher in the heat and humidity.  What about power?  Do you notice that your power output is lower or unaffected by the heat and humidity?  If you were to train in a hot, humid environment, but then race in a cooler, dry environment (with minimal time to acclimate....i.e. no time to do test riding/running), would you stick with the power output that you'd trained for in the heat/humidity, increase it slightly, or decrease it slightly?  

I attempted Week 8's Threshold 1 ride today, but my legs were incredibly fatigued, so I decided not to dig myself any bigger hole and just kept the power around 85% instead of 95%.  Hopefully they'll come around by Thursday. 

2014-02-25 8:55 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Week 8
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by WaterRat

Like some of the other sprinters in the group, my ratio is even deeper in the sprinter category.


The advantage of our 5' test having improved more is that our "roof" is now higher and we proceed to raising the ceiling.
The work we do to raise our roof is very different than what we race at. And we should be working more on race specific things as races approach. So to do the VO2 stuff early, get the results and move on to threshold, sweetspot and tempo makes a lot of sense.


The ROOF, the ROOF, the ROOF is on FIRE! Nice improvement Ron!


2014-02-25 9:46 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Week 8

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by croyston Did Week 8 Threshold 1 this morning. The new CP sure made it hurt a lot more than before. I have to get used to the new gearing to hit my power numbers for the segments. My HIM is less than 5 weeks away, so I definitely need to get outside for some longer tempo rides to figure out my pacing. - Chris
I always found i did best on HIM with multiple 3+hr rides under my belt. I find early season races are always a challenge with less volume in our bodies
4 weeks out from my HIM.  I replaced the Sweetspot ride on Sat with a 54 mile ride and it sure was nice to get off the trainer and be outdoors.  Should have paid more attention to the weather forecast because the 2nd half was all headwind after having no wind at the start. Will be doing the SS ride tonight then will be onto week 6. 

 

2014-02-25 11:53 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Week 8
Originally posted by marcag
I always found i did best on HIM with multiple 3+hr rides under my belt. I find early season races are always a challenge with less volume in our bodies


Mark - With our current load, would you add a 3+ hr ride, or replace the SS ride?

2014-02-25 12:17 PM
in reply to: croyston

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Subject: RE: Week 8

Originally posted by croyston
Originally posted by marcag I always found i did best on HIM with multiple 3+hr rides under my belt. I find early season races are always a challenge with less volume in our bodies
Mark - With our current load, would you add a 3+ hr ride, or replace the SS ride?

Good question -- I'd be curious to know the answer as well. 

2014-02-25 1:00 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Week 8
Originally posted by croyston

Originally posted by marcag
I always found i did best on HIM with multiple 3+hr rides under my belt. I find early season races are always a challenge with less volume in our bodies


Mark - With our current load, would you add a 3+ hr ride, or replace the SS ride?




I'll give you my opinion, Shane might have a different one or see it from a different angle

The 3+ hr ride is going to get you probably 150 to 180 TSS points if you are doing race pace work in there. That's a good chunk on top of the load we have been doing and it's a big jump. 5 weeks out from a race, I like to be close to top of my peak in terms of load, but I don't do well if I cram it in.
I think there is little to be gained by over biking right now. I would do a quality 3+hr race pace workout and forget the SS.

I would check my balance across the 3 sports and if it's bike heavy and there is any energy left in me on the Sunday, spend it on the run or swim.

I was too quick to say replace SS. I am torn on whether *I* would do threshold 2 or sweet spot. 5 weeks out ? I may be tempted to do SS and not THR2. Would love Shane's opinion.




Edited by marcag 2014-02-25 1:24 PM
2014-02-25 1:09 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: Week 8
Originally posted by ligersandtions

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by RunningJoke Well, I went out for a trail run on Saturday with a new group and while it felt fine on Saturday, I woke up yesterday to find my quads had morphed into a pile of quivering goo. Seriously, I can barely walk. Stupid downhills. I hope everyone else's week is off to a better start! Jaime
I have been in Florida for a few days and the humidity has been brutal. What you hear about HR being variable due to dehydration and heat/humidity is so true. Fatigue can suppress HR. Heat /humidity can raise it. I am suffering from all of the above and my HR while running is all over the map. It's ok for cycling it seems but I have been doing my runs in the afternoon after riding.

Oooohhhh, maybe I should pick your brain about this a little bit.  How long are you in Florida?  

As you noted, HR for a given RPE is higher in the heat and humidity.  What about power?  Do you notice that your power output is lower or unaffected by the heat and humidity?  If you were to train in a hot, humid environment, but then race in a cooler, dry environment (with minimal time to acclimate....i.e. no time to do test riding/running), would you stick with the power output that you'd trained for in the heat/humidity, increase it slightly, or decrease it slightly?  

I attempted Week 8's Threshold 1 ride today, but my legs were incredibly fatigued, so I decided not to dig myself any bigger hole and just kept the power around 85% instead of 95%.  Hopefully they'll come around by Thursday. 




I find that heat and humidity has less of an impact on the bike. For me. My power to HR is very predictable and I see it doesn't change much. I just did a 3hr ride and my watts to HR were almost indentical at the start and end of the ride while the temperature and humidity went up considerably. I ran before and my HR/pace was good. I bet if I did the run now I would be 45sec/mile slower at the same HR

Maybe it's because the speed/air flow compensates for it more than on the run

On race day, on the bike, I find heat/humidity is less of a factor. The bike is usually early in the day, heat is probably less a factor on HIM and shorter. If it's really hot (like Vegas WC) then yes, I would back off a few watts.

If it's cooler, I would not increase my watts. Very much a personal choice but I rather bank that extra energy for the run.

The run is another story. You get off the bike and the wall of heat/humidity hits you. This is when you know you have to back off the pace. It's 11AM-noon it's starting to get hot

In a HIM, there is lots of time to spend that extra energy you may have. Keep it. If you still have it at the mid point of the run, go for it.



2014-02-25 3:57 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Week 8

Originally posted by marcag 

I find that heat and humidity has less of an impact on the bike. For me. My power to HR is very predictable and I see it doesn't change much. I just did a 3hr ride and my watts to HR were almost indentical at the start and end of the ride while the temperature and humidity went up considerably. I ran before and my HR/pace was good. I bet if I did the run now I would be 45sec/mile slower at the same HR Maybe it's because the speed/air flow compensates for it more than on the run On race day, on the bike, I find heat/humidity is less of a factor. The bike is usually early in the day, heat is probably less a factor on HIM and shorter. If it's really hot (like Vegas WC) then yes, I would back off a few watts. If it's cooler, I would not increase my watts. Very much a personal choice but I rather bank that extra energy for the run. The run is another story. You get off the bike and the wall of heat/humidity hits you. This is when you know you have to back off the pace. It's 11AM-noon it's starting to get hot In a HIM, there is lots of time to spend that extra energy you may have. Keep it. If you still have it at the mid point of the run, go for it.

Seems like a reasonable approach -- especially since my only real goal for SG is to actually run the run course!  For my first HIM, I was injured and didn't train the run at all....and obviously did not expect to be able to run 13.1 miles.  This time, my injuries seem to be under control (and I'm doing what I can to be smart and keep them under control!), so I'm really hoping I'll be able to do that.

Banking a little extra energy by not arbitrarily adjusting my power targets seems to be the smart thing to do.  Now to keep dialing in those power targets / pacing, and keep running!



Edited by ligersandtions 2014-02-25 3:58 PM
2014-02-25 5:55 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: Week 8

Heat and humidity usually only impacts me on the bike during long climbs...where airflow is similar to running.  At 15+ mph, not so much.  

2014-02-25 6:21 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Week 8
Originally posted by Jason N

Heat and humidity usually only impacts me on the bike during long climbs...where airflow is similar to running.  At 15+ mph, not so much.  




That is good to know and makes sense. I wish Canada had heat :-)
2014-02-25 6:33 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Week 8
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by Jason N

Heat and humidity usually only impacts me on the bike during long climbs...where airflow is similar to running.  At 15+ mph, not so much.  




That is good to know and makes sense. I wish Canada had heat :-)


It hit 75 F here in Central California today. Luckily we are getting rain for the next couple of days. As nice as it is to ride outside now, it's hard to swim when there is no water in the lakes.
2014-02-25 7:29 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Week 8

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Jason N

Heat and humidity usually only impacts me on the bike during long climbs...where airflow is similar to running.  At 15+ mph, not so much.  

That is good to know and makes sense. I wish Canada had heat :-)

I'm sure your pain cave where your trainer is can get plenty hot.  Turn off the fans and simulate no wind.  Presto...heat in Canada.  You're welcome.  



2014-02-25 8:33 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Week 8

Originally posted by Jason N

Heat and humidity usually only impacts me on the bike during long climbs...where airflow is similar to running.  At 15+ mph, not so much.  

Heat and humidity doesn't bother me too much since it's what I typically train in.  I was mostly just curious how to race in a place that's cool and dry after training in the heat and humidity!  I think I'll stick with the power I dial in during training and bank any extra I might have for the run.  Oh, the run...

2014-02-25 8:57 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: Week 8

Originally posted by ligersandtions

Originally posted by Jason N

Heat and humidity usually only impacts me on the bike during long climbs...where airflow is similar to running.  At 15+ mph, not so much.  

Heat and humidity doesn't bother me too much since it's what I typically train in.  I was mostly just curious how to race in a place that's cool and dry after training in the heat and humidity!  I think I'll stick with the power I dial in during training and bank any extra I might have for the run.  Oh, the run...

That's how i would play it out - you don't hear too many people complaining they should have gone faster on the run course after a HIM.

2014-02-25 10:51 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Hey everybody! I've been MIA for the last two weeks because I had what can only be described as the plague. BUT, I re-did my 20' test tonight, and increased my FTP by 14 W! I'm stoked. And I probably could have pushed it ever so slightly more, but since I'm coming off being sick, I wasn't totally sure about the whole breathing thing.

Previous 20' test = 124 W
New 20' test = 139 W

Previous FTP = 118 W
New FTP = 132 W

I'll re-do the 5' test tomorrow. I'm curious to see what happens with that and my CP!

Thanks so much for letting me be a part of this group. I honestly think I've improved more in the last 8 weeks than I have in the last 2 years. You guys rock.
2014-02-26 5:09 AM
in reply to: ReginaPhalange72

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by ReginaPhalange72

Hey everybody! I've been MIA for the last two weeks because I had what can only be described as the plague. BUT, I re-did my 20' test tonight, and increased my FTP by 14 W! I'm stoked. And I probably could have pushed it ever so slightly more, but since I'm coming off being sick, I wasn't totally sure about the whole breathing thing.

Previous 20' test = 124 W
New 20' test = 139 W

Previous FTP = 118 W
New FTP = 132 W

I'll re-do the 5' test tomorrow. I'm curious to see what happens with that and my CP!

Thanks so much for letting me be a part of this group. I honestly think I've improved more in the last 8 weeks than I have in the last 2 years. You guys rock.


Glad to see you back. I was wondering what happened.
Great numbers for someone that was sick.. 15w on the 20' test is great. I have to do mine this week. Yuk!
My body is in a state of mutiny so it will not be happy testing.
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