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The Decline of the BT community (Page 6)
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  2013-10-28 5:51 PM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
 Subject: ...This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2013-10-28 6:06 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community I'll give my honest opinion. Probably a little self serving/selfish... I started back on 2006 and was pretty active. Even was a mentor 2-3 times (and participated in other mentor groups).
All that being said, renewed my membership during the sale. This place is GREAT for all the features. Bad people don't do anything to detract from all the tracking/logging/plans, etc. |
| 2013-10-28 6:16 PM in reply to: switch |
| Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community Originally posted by switch You mean the kind of language and behavior in threads like TAN? Wow, I didn't read all the threads, but I didn't see any of them single a person or group out. As a frequent contributor to TAN, I find this interesting... What sort of language and behavior do you attribute to TAN? I personally attempt to be understanding and have been, in my opinion, a helpful and valuable contributor and mentor to BT for 7 years now. Just looking at today (the last couple pages) it's all about congratulating a couple other TAN contributors in completing an IM and planning future ones (with some goon natured ribbing, of course). |
| 2013-10-28 6:37 PM in reply to: Fred D |
Pro 4578   Vancouver, BC | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community I didn't read through this whole thread, but I wanted to add my 2 cents anyway. The reason that I log less and therefore contribute to BT less is due to Strava. It logs my workouts for me, so I don't do it on BT anymore. |
| 2013-10-28 6:43 PM in reply to: jeng |
Expert 2192 Greenville, SC | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community Originally posted by jeng I didn't read through this whole thread, but I wanted to add my 2 cents anyway. The reason that I log less and therefore contribute to BT less is due to Strava. It logs my workouts for me, so I don't do it on BT anymore. no swim segments though. |
| 2013-10-28 6:44 PM in reply to: jeng |
Champion 7704 Williamston, Michigan | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community Another thought I had is that I think a lot more people have coaches now. If I have a question about my training I ask my coach, I mean that is what I pay him for and he knows me very well after 8 years together and he designs my training program. I don't mind answering questions and I like being able to help people on the Injuries forum esp. I don't remember the last time I started a thread tho. |
| 2013-10-28 7:10 PM in reply to: Fred D |
 Bronze member | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community Originally posted by Fred D Originally posted by marcag . Thanks Marc, I appreciate your input! I wonder what everyone would think of a rating system of posters (ie; you can 'like' or 'dislike' a post) and then a rating is attached. Wouldn't work perfectly, as I'm pretty sure there are a few people that would rate everything negative depending on who they were evaluating. It's an interesting idea. Lastly, I do care about this site and this community. I am a physician with limited time and am also intensively involved in Quality and Improvement groups in our institution. I am trying to think of things that improve the site. Yes, most of it is still fine, some of it isn't. To speculate how we can make things better is, well, my nature. I apologize to those who think this is simply whining.... It was never meant to be so. Originally posted by Left BrainThe folks who run the board get to make those decisions, and you can either leave, whine about it, or get over it. If one person makes a board then the board isn't worth a damn anyway.....and this one certainly is. I don't lament the "passing" of anyone....people move on or leave for a variety of reasons.....especially on a board attached to a sport that has a pretty short shelf life for most folks I completely agree and I didn't mean to highlight one individualThe problem is that many experienced, knowledgeable and helpful folks don't stick around and this leaves a void. It would be great to find a way to keep them. Why do many of the best guys on ST stick around there for years and years ? Why do many not come here ? And it's not a "grunt/grunt/we are fast, they are slow" thing.Some things I would suggestMore moderation, in the form of when a topic his re-hashed, the moderators move it to a thread on that topic so that information is all in one place. Things like "what is the best trainer", "what is the best PM".....nothing wrong with the question being asked over and over, just put it in one thread to avoid really helpful and knowledgeable guys like Shane having to repeat himself 50 times.Maybe allow posters to be rated so newbies can get a better feel for what advice to listen to. There is some bad advice that gets thrown around sometimes. Maybe a "really helpful" to "really useless" rating on a post allowing newbies to see what the general conscensus on a post isJust throwing out ideas. Fred took the time to create this thread, I thought it's the least I could do.Personally, I would probably stop replying in TriTalk. I think I would feel (I sort of already do) that I am not an expert in anything (except for 20 different ways to ice your feet I was new here once. It does not take that long to figure out who is giving solid training advice. I believe as a newbie I even sent personal messages to more than one person on here as a thank you for sticking around to help us! Just my thoughts.... Dina
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) so I have no business offering advice. Or at least I would be sure to only reply when someone asked specifically for experiences verses training advice. This is most likely the case for me right now as it is though. | 2013-10-28 7:27 PM in reply to: Fred D |
| Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community First and foremost, thank you Fred and many of the other people (you know who you are) who have contributed to BT over the years. I have gained a wealth of knowledge and personal guidance from many of you. That said, I have read through some of responses and I think there are a lot of valid points that have come up. After thinking about it for a while, I am wondering if BT is not so "beginner" anymore. When I say that, I mean that there are more people that browse the forums that have decent triathlon knowldege. So when someone asks a simple question, it seems like 5-10 people chime in with similar/standard responses and the thread ends. In a way, that's a good thing, but I also noticed that some of the best threads come about when 5-10 inexperienced folks chime into a thread and constantly ask follow up questions from many different angles. Then the more experienced folks chime in again to give the details or a more in depth discussion. Take for example the famous "Gator Deb" threads. Actually some of the better threads in the past 2 years because she questions everything. But because of that, some well thought out answers were posted and were extremely informational. If every thread Deb started had her agreeing with the first 10 responses, all of that discussion afterwards would have been lost. I know it was furstrating at times, but I think that is what creates a good discussion...when there are more people constantly asking questions, follow up questions, or constantly questioning "good advice." Because that's when the real discussion begins...when we start going into detail of WHY we accept certain things as good advice or why certian things may work for certain people. A more specific example may be something like this... Thread question "what type of tires should I use for a race? Response #1 - Conti GP4000S and latex tubes Every other response as follows - x2, x3, x4, etc, etc. The question got answered, but since so many people browsing the forum already agree with the advice, the thread ends with very little "discussion." But if you had more people on the forum that were not informed about GP4000S tires and latex tubes, and they ask follow up questions as to why they are faster, how much faster, or why they shouldn't use gatorskins, then the thread becomes much more informational. Someone then may decide to post charts, or results of their own field testing, run numbers through analytic cycling, etc, etc. This is also why I agree with Ron that we should not respond with "use the search button." So the question becomes, if more people on this forum have decent knowledge, then why don't more complex topics get discussed. Well, I think part of the reason is that there are less people available to answer those questions. This may have been slightly before my time here on BT, but it seems as though when there was a lot of beginner discussion, the very experienced posters who may have posted more advanced training ideas were discouraged by the famous line "this is beginner triathlete," labeled as elitiest, etc. I still value BT, but I have definitely noticed a change, and I do wish I could get more out of the forums. I do find myself browsing ST a lot more these days. Some people think that the biggest difference between BT and ST is the language and attitude allowed on the forums. I can't deny that's a key difference, but the biggest difference IMO is that there is a lot bigger wealth of information on ST that is constantly on the first page of the forums. Just some random thoughts in my head. |
| 2013-10-28 7:32 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Master 3205 ann arbor, michigan | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community Originally posted by Jason N First and foremost, thank you Fred and many of the other people (you know who you are) who have contributed to BT over the years. I have gained a wealth of knowledge and personal guidance from many of you. That said, I have read through some of responses and I think there are a lot of valid points that have come up. After thinking about it for a while, I am wondering if BT is not so "beginner" anymore. When I say that, I mean that there are more people that browse the forums that have decent triathlon knowldege. So when someone asks a simple question, it seems like 5-10 people chime in with similar/standard responses and the thread ends. In a way, that's a good thing, but I also noticed that some of the best threads come about when 5-10 inexperienced folks chime into a thread and constantly ask follow up questions from many different angles. Then the more experienced folks chime in again to give the details or a more in depth discussion. Take for example the famous "Gator Deb" threads. Actually some of the better threads in the past 2 years because she questions everything. But because of that, some well thought out answers were posted and were extremely informational. If every thread Deb started had her agreeing with the first 10 responses, all of that discussion afterwards would have been lost. I know it was furstrating at times, but I think that is what creates a good discussion...when there are more people constantly asking questions, follow up questions, or constantly questioning "good advice." Because that's when the real discussion begins...when we start going into detail of WHY we accept certain things as good advice or why certian things may work for certain people. A more specific example may be something like this... Thread question "what type of tires should I use for a race? Response #1 - Conti GP4000S and latex tubes Every other response as follows - x2, x3, x4, etc, etc. The question got answered, but since so many people browsing the forum already agree with the advice, the thread ends with very little "discussion." But if you had more people on the forum that were not informed about GP4000S tires and latex tubes, and they ask follow up questions as to why they are faster, how much faster, or why they shouldn't use gatorskins, then the thread becomes much more informational. Someone then may decide to post charts, or results of their own field testing, run numbers through analytic cycling, etc, etc. This is also why I agree with Ron that we should not respond with "use the search button." So the question becomes, if more people on this forum have decent knowledge, then why don't more complex topics get discussed. Well, I think part of the reason is that there are less people available to answer those questions. This may have been slightly before my time here on BT, but it seems as though when there was a lot of beginner discussion, the very experienced posters who may have posted more advanced training ideas were discouraged by the famous line "this is beginner triathlete," labeled as elitiest, etc. I still value BT, but I have definitely noticed a change, and I do wish I could get more out of the forums. I do find myself browsing ST a lot more these days. Some people think that the biggest difference between BT and ST is the language and attitude allowed on the forums. I can't deny that's a key difference, but the biggest difference IMO is that there is a lot bigger wealth of information on ST that is constantly on the first page of the forums. Just some random thoughts in my head. I swear I didn't read your post before I posted my Crr question...... |
| 2013-10-28 7:38 PM in reply to: wannabefaster |
| Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community Originally posted by wannabefaster Originally posted by Jason N First and foremost, thank you Fred and many of the other people (you know who you are) who have contributed to BT over the years. I have gained a wealth of knowledge and personal guidance from many of you. That said, I have read through some of responses and I think there are a lot of valid points that have come up. After thinking about it for a while, I am wondering if BT is not so "beginner" anymore. When I say that, I mean that there are more people that browse the forums that have decent triathlon knowldege. So when someone asks a simple question, it seems like 5-10 people chime in with similar/standard responses and the thread ends. In a way, that's a good thing, but I also noticed that some of the best threads come about when 5-10 inexperienced folks chime into a thread and constantly ask follow up questions from many different angles. Then the more experienced folks chime in again to give the details or a more in depth discussion. Take for example the famous "Gator Deb" threads. Actually some of the better threads in the past 2 years because she questions everything. But because of that, some well thought out answers were posted and were extremely informational. If every thread Deb started had her agreeing with the first 10 responses, all of that discussion afterwards would have been lost. I know it was furstrating at times, but I think that is what creates a good discussion...when there are more people constantly asking questions, follow up questions, or constantly questioning "good advice." Because that's when the real discussion begins...when we start going into detail of WHY we accept certain things as good advice or why certian things may work for certain people. A more specific example may be something like this... Thread question "what type of tires should I use for a race? Response #1 - Conti GP4000S and latex tubes Every other response as follows - x2, x3, x4, etc, etc. The question got answered, but since so many people browsing the forum already agree with the advice, the thread ends with very little "discussion." But if you had more people on the forum that were not informed about GP4000S tires and latex tubes, and they ask follow up questions as to why they are faster, how much faster, or why they shouldn't use gatorskins, then the thread becomes much more informational. Someone then may decide to post charts, or results of their own field testing, run numbers through analytic cycling, etc, etc. This is also why I agree with Ron that we should not respond with "use the search button." So the question becomes, if more people on this forum have decent knowledge, then why don't more complex topics get discussed. Well, I think part of the reason is that there are less people available to answer those questions. This may have been slightly before my time here on BT, but it seems as though when there was a lot of beginner discussion, the very experienced posters who may have posted more advanced training ideas were discouraged by the famous line "this is beginner triathlete," labeled as elitiest, etc. I still value BT, but I have definitely noticed a change, and I do wish I could get more out of the forums. I do find myself browsing ST a lot more these days. Some people think that the biggest difference between BT and ST is the language and attitude allowed on the forums. I can't deny that's a key difference, but the biggest difference IMO is that there is a lot bigger wealth of information on ST that is constantly on the first page of the forums. Just some random thoughts in my head. I swear I didn't read your post before I posted my Crr question...... LOL...and I did not x2 it on purpose  |
| 2013-10-28 7:43 PM in reply to: switch |
| Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community Originally posted by switch Seriously? Mods, is this even allowed?I understand you may disagree, or even dislike people that contribute to TAN, but accusing the entire population of TAN? Yeah, Yanti, who is one of the kindest and most encouraging people on BT EVER is a founder of TAN. In every group there are people you may not get along with but that doesn't mean the whole group is like that. So according to you TAN is just bad apples - got it.I thought calling out individuals on BT (or group) was against forum rules.This has been an interesting thread. I hadn't thought about the anonymity component, but I've added my name to my sig line, as that seems to be important to many. Easily done. To those of you who have been on BT for many years and are commenting on "bad apples", I hope you can take a very introspective look at your own posts. Some of you crying the biggest foul on this are repeat offenders. If you are going to dish it out, it only seems fair that you are willing to take it. Disagreements are an inherent part of an internet board, especially in places like PCOJ. If you enter into a thread there, do so at your own risk and with a bit of a thick skin. The kind of banter that takes place in there requires decent writing skills and deductive reasoning. If the conversation gets heated--and it does--it's not necessarily a personal attack. Be prepared to defend your position or don't play. If you say something galactically stupid or get out of line--own it. Admitting your wrong once and awhile goes a long way. The question remains, what can we do to make it better? I would encourage everyone to look at what they do on this site to help BEGINNER TRIATHLETES. Think about that. Do you start threads or participate in threads for beginners? Do you help people celebrate their firsts? Read and comment on RRs? Participate in challenges? Send inspires? Check in on posters who you haven't seen in a while? Are you inclusive? Encouraging? Not just to your "friends"--but regularly reach outside of your group and your comfort zone? Be the change you want to see.
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| 2013-10-28 7:47 PM in reply to: Kido |
| Expert 2192 Greenville, SC | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community Originally posted by Kido Originally posted by switch Seriously? Mods, is this even allowed?I understand you may disagree, or even dislike people that contribute to TAN, but accusing the entire population of TAN? Yeah, Yanti, who is one of the kindest and most encouraging people on BT EVER is a founder of TAN. In every group there are people you may not get along with but that doesn't mean the whole group is like that. So according to you TAN is just bad apples - got it.I thought calling out individuals on BT (or group) was against forum rules. This has been an interesting thread. I hadn't thought about the anonymity component, but I've added my name to my sig line, as that seems to be important to many. Easily done. To those of you who have been on BT for many years and are commenting on "bad apples", I hope you can take a very introspective look at your own posts. Some of you crying the biggest foul on this are repeat offenders. If you are going to dish it out, it only seems fair that you are willing to take it. Disagreements are an inherent part of an internet board, especially in places like PCOJ. If you enter into a thread there, do so at your own risk and with a bit of a thick skin. The kind of banter that takes place in there requires decent writing skills and deductive reasoning. If the conversation gets heated--and it does--it's not necessarily a personal attack. Be prepared to defend your position or don't play. If you say something galactically stupid or get out of line--own it. Admitting your wrong once and awhile goes a long way. The question remains, what can we do to make it better? I would encourage everyone to look at what they do on this site to help BEGINNER TRIATHLETES. Think about that. Do you start threads or participate in threads for beginners? Do you help people celebrate their firsts? Read and comment on RRs? Participate in challenges? Send inspires? Check in on posters who you haven't seen in a while? Are you inclusive? Encouraging? Not just to your "friends"--but regularly reach outside of your group and your comfort zone? Be the change you want to see.
seriously? i would have a problem with the site if the comment was edited. switch isn't calling anyone one person out by name. i didn't realize TAN was a select group, i thought all of BT could post there. this is the problem i have with BT. its all good when everyone is holding hands and drinking the same koolaid, but the moment someone steps back and says "wait a second.." everyone jumps on them. |
| 2013-10-28 8:00 PM in reply to: Clempson |
| Veteran 1016 Deep South, Georgia | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community I'm sorry, this may be really dumb but what is TAN? |
| 2013-10-28 8:05 PM in reply to: Dominion |
| Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community Originally posted by Dominion I'm sorry, this may be really dumb but what is TAN? This may sound really dumb, but TAN stands for Thread About Nothing. It's in the Cup of Joe forum. |
| 2013-10-28 8:05 PM in reply to: Dominion |
| Expert 2192 Greenville, SC | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community Originally posted by Dominion I'm sorry, this may be really dumb but what is TAN? its an ongoing "thread about nothing" in COJ |
| 2013-10-28 8:09 PM in reply to: Clempson |
| Veteran 1016 Deep South, Georgia | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community ahh, Ok. thanks Jason and Clempson. I've been seeing it over and over but couldn't figure out what folks were talking about. so kind of like a "Seinfeld" thread |
| 2013-10-28 8:26 PM in reply to: noelle1230 |
Official BT Coach 18500 Indianapolis, Indiana Gold member | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community Originally posted by noelle1230 I like Switch's post and find myself nodding in agreement to several of the points. Here are a few things that prevent me from posting more often. None of them really have to do with navigating, using the mobile app or anything technology related. I find disagreements, debates and sharing of ideas that are outside the norm to be intriguing; however, when people purposefully push other people's buttons it makes me want to sign off and exit stage left. There's enough damn negativity in the world. We're adults, we can't talk respectfully to each other and not try to make someone who doesn't see your point of view feel like sh*t? There have been a handful of threads now that question why BT has become so snarky, started by people that I have personally found to be the snarkiest of all (that is not directed toward the OP of this thread). In the past I've felt attacked by a member, attempted to defend myself and then been asked by that member, "why are you attaching me?" Think about how your tone comes off before questioning everyone else's. And yes, there are definitely certain posters here with whom you cannot ever disagree without having twenty of that person's supporters jumping down your throat. It's not about creating a Kumbaya environment where everyone agrees; it's just irritating when you engage in a debate with someone and everyone jumps in with "Bob is right about everything. You can't disagree with Bob. He's been here forever and is the authority on everything triathlon". It starts to feel like bullying on the playground. Lastly, though I've met and befriended several people on this site, I've also reached out to some that never even bother to respond. Maybe it was just to talk more in depth about a post, or maybe to share an idea. But when you attempt to connect with people and get crickets, it makes you question why you would even bother trying. It's funny--someone like BryanCD who got banned for what I assume was pizzing too many people off never missed a beat in responding back to PM's or inspires in a thoughtful manner. This thread cites BT as a place that has become "too friendly", yet also doesn't "welcome" new or different ideas. Well, you can't really be welcoming without being friendly so I guess I don't get that. Forums have to find a balance. People have to feel like they can say what they want to say without getting attacked; but they also have to feel like they can disagree with someone, no matter how "popular" that person is and not be attacked for that either. And they need to feel like when they go through the hassle of posting something, that at least someone gives a sh*t. Well said! I swam competitively for nearly 15 years. I briefly held an individual world record back in the late 70's and was a member of two different relay teams that set world records. So yeah, I think it is fair to say I know a little bit about swimming. A few months ago, I answered a swimming question in the TT forum and was told, in no uncertain terms, that I did not know what I was talking about and I should just "shut up." That was the last time I posted anything of any real substance in the TT forum. It just isn't worth the trouble anymore. I am all for spirited debate, however there are a number of people here that will argue for the sake of arguing (that is not directed at anyone in particular, just a general observation). If you say the sun will come up tomorrow, they will argue the point. I stick to the mentor group and occasionally troll the TT forum and for the most part, just keep my opinions to myself. |
| 2013-10-28 8:36 PM in reply to: k9car363 |
| Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community Crap we stopped a true swimmer from contributing here on BT. Former or Current World record holders don't usually answer swim questions here. What does that say about our community that our behavior stopped someone that knows swimming and has proved his skill stops posting....very sad. Scott I am sure many here on BT could benefit from your knowledge of swimming. The back and forth in some threads between a couple people not giving an ounce and wanting to prove they are right, arguing back and forth for way to many posts is a real turn off to me and a big reason I stopped reading and participating in tri talk. |
| 2013-10-28 8:54 PM in reply to: Clempson |
| Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community Originally posted by Clempson Not by name, but is it acceptable to say everyone who post is tri talk are bad apples? Or anyone that posts in the political forum as bad people? Or a particular mentor thread are jerks?I personally don't agree with judging an entire group of people by the actions of a few people in that group and will always stand up to that. No matter the group.I'm not for censorship and everyone is entitled to their opinion but it IS a rule of BT to not attack people in this forum and calling people that post in a specific thread bad apples is an attack on that thread and people in it. I'm not personally offended. I don't care what people think of me personally but I will speak out when someone negatively judges an entire group based on the few. I can't think of a time when that works out well.Originally posted by Kido Originally posted by switch Seriously? Mods, is this even allowed?I understand you may disagree, or even dislike people that contribute to TAN, but accusing the entire population of TAN? Yeah, Yanti, who is one of the kindest and most encouraging people on BT EVER is a founder of TAN. In every group there are people you may not get along with but that doesn't mean the whole group is like that. So according to you TAN is just bad apples - got it.I thought calling out individuals on BT (or group) was against forum rules. This has been an interesting thread. I hadn't thought about the anonymity component, but I've added my name to my sig line, as that seems to be important to many. Easily done. To those of you who have been on BT for many years and are commenting on "bad apples", I hope you can take a very introspective look at your own posts. Some of you crying the biggest foul on this are repeat offenders. If you are going to dish it out, it only seems fair that you are willing to take it. Disagreements are an inherent part of an internet board, especially in places like PCOJ. If you enter into a thread there, do so at your own risk and with a bit of a thick skin. The kind of banter that takes place in there requires decent writing skills and deductive reasoning. If the conversation gets heated--and it does--it's not necessarily a personal attack. Be prepared to defend your position or don't play. If you say something galactically stupid or get out of line--own it. Admitting your wrong once and awhile goes a long way. The question remains, what can we do to make it better? I would encourage everyone to look at what they do on this site to help BEGINNER TRIATHLETES. Think about that. Do you start threads or participate in threads for beginners? Do you help people celebrate their firsts? Read and comment on RRs? Participate in challenges? Send inspires? Check in on posters who you haven't seen in a while? Are you inclusive? Encouraging? Not just to your "friends"--but regularly reach outside of your group and your comfort zone? Be the change you want to see.
seriously? i would have a problem with the site if the comment was edited. switch isn't calling anyone one person out by name. i didn't realize TAN was a select group, i thought all of BT could post there. this is the problem i have with BT. its all good when everyone is holding hands and drinking the same koolaid, but the moment someone steps back and says "wait a second.." everyone jumps on them. |
| 2013-10-28 8:58 PM in reply to: KathyG |
| Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community Originally posted by KathyG And you are missed. But I completely understand. You were great during all my IM's. As where many others that are now gone or chose not to participate.Crap we stopped a true swimmer from contributing here on BT. Former or Current World record holders don't usually answer swim questions here. What does that say about our community that our behavior stopped someone that knows swimming and has proved his skill stops posting....very sad. Scott I am sure many here on BT could benefit from your knowledge of swimming. The back and forth in some threads between a couple people not giving an ounce and wanting to prove they are right, arguing back and forth for way to many posts is a real turn off to me and a big reason I stopped reading and participating in tri talk. |
| 2013-10-28 8:59 PM in reply to: KathyG |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community Just a note about a couple comments: 1. I don't access the site much on mobile, but I agree that it has been generally unfriendly to date when I have tried. That's never been a major issue for me, but I do think that if it does not improve it will weigh on the social aspects of the site. And really, combined with the logs, that's all the site stands on. So hopefully upcoming work will improve this aspect for people like Fred who rely heavily on mobile. The mobile portion? It doesn't impact me. I rarely look at BT other than at work on my desktop. I mostly access the site from a computer but I'd use a tablet more often during race travel, etc. And if you're looking across a wide cross section of internet usage, mobile / tablet devices have much more market than, say, 5 years ago. Especially with younger people. Desktop PCs are declining. I'm not saying BT should be primarily a mobile site, but effort to smooth things out on that end can only benefit the site long-term. |
| 2013-10-28 9:12 PM in reply to: Hot Runner |
| Master 1681 Rural Ontario | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community I used to spend 80% of my time here and 20% on ST. Now its 95% ST and 5% here. Here is why: - there are too many forums. You can't make critical-mass. People won't browse the forums if there is no cornucopia of new threads, but if people are not browsing they are not posting and replying and you've basically extinguished a forum. Reduce it to 3 forums - TriTalk, Classified, COJ. Maybe a Women's if some ladies are too shy to post questions about sports bras in Tri Talk. - Loosen up with the strict moderation. A healthy dose of debating is good - it draws a crowd. Most people can handle being called an idiot because they presfer bike X over Y. We're just too nice here. Racism, sexism, bullying are not OK. - Simplify the GUI. Its too busy and has too much white dead space. |
| 2013-10-28 9:18 PM in reply to: Hugh in TX |
| Elite 4048 Gilbert, Az. | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community Originally posted by Hugh in TX I hope this does not go the way of Trinewbies Online. That was the first tri forum I joined many years ago and it was very active. There was some fun sparring with ST back then. Some threads started to get acidic so they created an off topic space like COJ is here. It continued to get acidic so the Off Topic area got eliminated and the decline was immediate. It is now a ghost town over there. ST seems to continue to be active. Is it because there is no "New" or "Beginner" in the name of the website? Also, ST seems to be a bit more loose with the moderating. I've learned over there who to ignore or which threads to ignore. What if BT loosened up a bit with the moderation? This is a big ask, but people would need to self monitor and not trash the newbies or respond with "do a search" if a question is asked for the umpteenth time. Honestly, the only people that get trashed on ST are the ones that come in like the Second Coming of Tinley or similar. Those that come in asking honest questions may get a little heckling, but for the vast majority of the posters there, if you are willing to learn and be open to change, they are more than welcoming. There are a LOT of excellent posters, a vast depth of knowledge, and a lot are willing to share. That being said, it is more of a rough and tumble crowd, and they have a highly honed BS meter. It is more likely to be some of the same advice you get here, here it's just served with milk and cookies, there it's served with a kick in the rump when needed. John |
| 2013-10-28 9:37 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community Originally posted by Kido Oh my--this is classic. Thank you Originally posted by Clempson Not by name, but is it acceptable to say everyone who post is tri talk are bad apples? Or anyone that posts in the political forum as bad people? Or a particular mentor thread are jerks?I personally don't agree with judging an entire group of people by the actions of a few people in that group and will always stand up to that. No matter the group.I'm not for censorship and everyone is entitled to their opinion but it IS a rule of BT to not attack people in this forum and calling people that post in a specific thread bad apples is an attack on that thread and people in it. I'm not personally offended. I don't care what people think of me personally but I will speak out when someone negatively judges an entire group based on the few. I can't think of a time when that works out well.Originally posted by Kido Originally posted by switch Seriously? Mods, is this even allowed?I understand you may disagree, or even dislike people that contribute to TAN, but accusing the entire population of TAN? Yeah, Yanti, who is one of the kindest and most encouraging people on BT EVER is a founder of TAN. In every group there are people you may not get along with but that doesn't mean the whole group is like that. So according to you TAN is just bad apples - got it.I thought calling out individuals on BT (or group) was against forum rules. This has been an interesting thread. I hadn't thought about the anonymity component, but I've added my name to my sig line, as that seems to be important to many. Easily done. To those of you who have been on BT for many years and are commenting on "bad apples", I hope you can take a very introspective look at your own posts. Some of you crying the biggest foul on this are repeat offenders. If you are going to dish it out, it only seems fair that you are willing to take it. Disagreements are an inherent part of an internet board, especially in places like PCOJ. If you enter into a thread there, do so at your own risk and with a bit of a thick skin. The kind of banter that takes place in there requires decent writing skills and deductive reasoning. If the conversation gets heated--and it does--it's not necessarily a personal attack. Be prepared to defend your position or don't play. If you say something galactically stupid or get out of line--own it. Admitting your wrong once and awhile goes a long way. The question remains, what can we do to make it better? I would encourage everyone to look at what they do on this site to help BEGINNER TRIATHLETES. Think about that. Do you start threads or participate in threads for beginners? Do you help people celebrate their firsts? Read and comment on RRs? Participate in challenges? Send inspires? Check in on posters who you haven't seen in a while? Are you inclusive? Encouraging? Not just to your "friends"--but regularly reach outside of your group and your comfort zone? Be the change you want to see.
seriously? i would have a problem with the site if the comment was edited. switch isn't calling anyone one person out by name. i didn't realize TAN was a select group, i thought all of BT could post there. this is the problem i have with BT. its all good when everyone is holding hands and drinking the same koolaid, but the moment someone steps back and says "wait a second.." everyone jumps on them. The paragraph that you are questioning, I'll call it "the bad apples paragraph" as I'm on my phone and have limited highlighting capabilities, starts with a topic sentence that defines the subject of the following sentences in the paragraph. I am specifically addressing those in the thread who are calling OTHERS bad apples. I then go on to explain that these same people are some of the repeat offenders of the same behavior they are speaking out against. Then I say where that behavior is so prevalent (TAN, providing a reference for a claim). And then my conclusion sentence--a summary of my points to the people claiming "bad apple" behavior by others is a comment on the double standard. And I stand by all of that. You can't have it both ways. Your posts here are actually a great example. To further clarify, in case there is still any question, I'm not talking about every person who contributes to TAN. Yanti, for example, hasn't made a "bad apples" comment-- not addressing her. There are plenty of others who contribute regularly to TAN who aren't in here using the""bad apple" argument. . Actions speak louder than words. I encourage anyone to do a user post search. It's very easy to see who regularly reaches out to beginners. It's very easy to see who stands up to whom. It's very easy for anyone to go read TAN. I feel very confident that my actions will show what I contribute here. You can't spin that, no matter how hard you try. |
| 2013-10-28 9:55 PM in reply to: switch |
| Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: The Decline of the BT community Originally posted by switch Originally posted by Kido Oh my--this is classic. Thank you Originally posted by Clempson Not by name, but is it acceptable to say everyone who post is tri talk are bad apples? Or anyone that posts in the political forum as bad people? Or a particular mentor thread are jerks?I personally don't agree with judging an entire group of people by the actions of a few people in that group and will always stand up to that. No matter the group.I'm not for censorship and everyone is entitled to their opinion but it IS a rule of BT to not attack people in this forum and calling people that post in a specific thread bad apples is an attack on that thread and people in it. I'm not personally offended. I don't care what people think of me personally but I will speak out when someone negatively judges an entire group based on the few. I can't think of a time when that works out well.Originally posted by Kido Originally posted by switch Seriously? Mods, is this even allowed?I understand you may disagree, or even dislike people that contribute to TAN, but accusing the entire population of TAN? Yeah, Yanti, who is one of the kindest and most encouraging people on BT EVER is a founder of TAN. In every group there are people you may not get along with but that doesn't mean the whole group is like that. So according to you TAN is just bad apples - got it.I thought calling out individuals on BT (or group) was against forum rules. This has been an interesting thread. I hadn't thought about the anonymity component, but I've added my name to my sig line, as that seems to be important to many. Easily done. To those of you who have been on BT for many years and are commenting on "bad apples", I hope you can take a very introspective look at your own posts. Some of you crying the biggest foul on this are repeat offenders. If you are going to dish it out, it only seems fair that you are willing to take it. Disagreements are an inherent part of an internet board, especially in places like PCOJ. If you enter into a thread there, do so at your own risk and with a bit of a thick skin. The kind of banter that takes place in there requires decent writing skills and deductive reasoning. If the conversation gets heated--and it does--it's not necessarily a personal attack. Be prepared to defend your position or don't play. If you say something galactically stupid or get out of line--own it. Admitting your wrong once and awhile goes a long way. The question remains, what can we do to make it better? I would encourage everyone to look at what they do on this site to help BEGINNER TRIATHLETES. Think about that. Do you start threads or participate in threads for beginners? Do you help people celebrate their firsts? Read and comment on RRs? Participate in challenges? Send inspires? Check in on posters who you haven't seen in a while? Are you inclusive? Encouraging? Not just to your "friends"--but regularly reach outside of your group and your comfort zone? Be the change you want to see.
seriously? i would have a problem with the site if the comment was edited. switch isn't calling anyone one person out by name. i didn't realize TAN was a select group, i thought all of BT could post there. this is the problem i have with BT. its all good when everyone is holding hands and drinking the same koolaid, but the moment someone steps back and says "wait a second.." everyone jumps on them. The paragraph that you are questioning, I'll call it "the bad apples paragraph" as I'm on my phone and have limited highlighting capabilities, starts with a topic sentence that defines the subject of the following sentences in the paragraph. I am specifically addressing those in the thread who are cling OTHERS bad apples. I then go on to explain that these same people are some of the repeat offenders of the same behavior they are speaking out against. Then I say where that behavior is so prevalent (TAN, providing a reference for a claim). And then my conclusion sentence--a summary of my points to the people claiming "bad apple" behavior by others is a comment on the double standard. And I stand by all of that. You can't have it both ways. Your posts here are actually a great example. To further clarify, in case there is still any question, I'm not talking about every person who contributes to TAN. Yanti, for example, hasn't made a "bad apples" comment-- not addressing her. There are plenty of others who contribute regularly to TAN who aren't in here using the""bad apple" argument. . Actions speak louder than words. I encourage anyone to do a user post search. It's very easy to see who regularly reaches out to beginners. It's very easy to see who stands up to whom. It's very easy for anyone to go read TAN. I feel very confident that my actions will show what I contribute here. You can't spin that, no matter how hard you try. I have to admit that nearly every time someone posts something about the way someone else posts I end up laughing when I remember some of the posts they made. Invariably I can easily come up with an example of how they did exactly what they are complaining about. It's all fun and games to me.....this just ain't that serious. That being said. I think the folks advocating for less forums have it right. I go to TT, the classifieds, COJ, and the Political forum. I just figured most people kind of did the same.....but now I realize that there is probably a ton of traffic on the board that I never see. Actually, that's OK with me, but if the idea is to get TT back to some mythical past triathlon chat board utopia, then yeah, I bet less forums would go a long way toward that end. |
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