SWBKRUN- Miles and Miles ahead!!!! CLOSED (Page 61)

jvanis - 2010-01-03 9:41 PM

Just got done doing my TT test using my Kinetic trainer and average speed to calculate wattage.  Will see in a few weeks when the PT gets here, but I resulted in a FTP of 260, just about smack dab where I expected it to be, I started a bit hard, and then dipped down in the middle, hopefully will retest in a month or so.  It gives me somewhere to start and use as a benchmark for the year, I am excited to see the gains in 2010!

fattyfatfat - 2010-01-03 9:09 PM
you didn't pee on the 50?  THAT would have been a bonding moment.

icky43 - 2010-01-03 6:31 PM I did my first swim workout today.  I believe it was the first time that I have been in pool in 20 year to just swim laps.  It felt great, I'm sure that I looked like an idiot, and that is the main reason why I have waited so long to try it.  It has never been the fear of swimming or the fear of not being able to do it, it has been the fear of look so stupid while trying.  I jump a huge mental hurddle today.  I got thought that planned workout, (700 yd's) but it wasn't pretty.  On a high note I can't wait for my swimming lesson on Tuesday, I have so many questions.  

Ben 

icky43 - 2010-01-03 5:31 PM I did my first swim workout today.  I believe it was the first time that I have been in pool in 20 year to just swim laps.  It felt great, I'm sure that I looked like an idiot, and that is the main reason why I have waited so long to try it.  It has never been the fear of swimming or the fear of not being able to do it, it has been the fear of look so stupid while trying.  I jump a huge mental hurddle today.  I got thought that planned workout, (700 yd's) but it wasn't pretty.  On a high note I can't wait for my swimming lesson on Tuesday, I have so many questions.  

Ben 

ashort33 - 2010-01-03 6:35 PM

Great Job Ben!  I find as I get older I care less about what others think...  I am sure that I will be "that guy" at gym someday!  Make sure and let us know how the swim lesson goes!

DougRob - 2010-01-03 9:59 PM

So tomorrow is my rest day, and honestly my body needs it. I am sore. left shin, right pelvic joint, sore nipples and chaffing between the thighs. Oh yeah and sore shoulders from the swim.

None of this is really bad, i.e., none of them are injuries or are debilitating. I know I am pushing myself to new levels of fitness. However, I am tired. I will be in bed by 11 tonight and that is early for me.

When I was running today I kept thinking "Boy, I better feel better than this during the marathon or I will never finish it." Then I realized I have to go through all this in order to be ABLE to finish it.

I have this shirt that says "TRAINING: What you do while your competition is asleep." These are the thoughts that keep me going during the tough sessions.

See you all tomorrow.

Doug

CyborgQueen - 2010-01-03 9:15 PM uh. Please don't shoot me for asking another "same-old" nutrition question.

Today, I went on a 26 mile ride (and I HTFU half way, I'm so proud of myself...seriously was ready to give up!!!). Part of the reason why the first half of the ride, I didn't eat prior to the ride (I mean seriously, duh?!). Anyways, I decided to grab a gel, (GU Vanilla Bean to be exact).  I sipped on Heed throughout the ride (not sure if this is valid).  I ate the full packet of gel. I was perfectly fine for the 2nd half of the ride. I'm not sure if I had a big energy boost from the gel or because it was pretty much downhill.

    I had chocolate milk as recovery drink, and bagel for food.

About 1 hour or so later, I started to feel a wave of GI sickness. Like my stomach was really heavy. Perhaps a little amount of nausea. After visiting the Porclein King and giving donations, not through the mouth if you know what I mean, I felt a little better. Took a nice warm bath, felt a lot better.

    Now, I don't usually eat gels because I've tried a couple times, and each time I felt like my mouth was so sticky and like it was way too much mucus, I just didn't like it in general.

  What I want to know is, is this whole thing has to do with gel? Gel and Heed combo? Or just lack of nutrition prior to the ride, or just poor nutrition plan both during and after the ride? I took the gel one hour into the ride...I don't think it's that bad. Total ride was just under 2 hours.

     Nutrition is something I seriously want to work on, but not overly crazy.  I just feel like I want to eat FOOD...NORMAL food, but I'm not sure what will give me energy bursts, and keep me long lasting.  Pepsi and Dr. Pepper will give me a HUGE amount of energy, but I suffer from sugar crash a day after, plus people will think I'm totally rude if I keep burping.

I don't think PopTarts and Fig Newtons are doing the trick, it does fill my stomach, but not giving me the energy.  Am I missing something here?  I'm just a little tired of not "knowing" what to do for nutrition for the bike. Swim - no need, Run - just water as I'm only maxing out at 5 to 6 miles.  If I go for one hour or less ride on the bike, just water. More than that, I'm clueless.

Thanks for the help!

CyborgQueen - 2010-01-03 7:15 PM

Anyways, I decided to grab a gel, (GU Vanilla Bean to be exact).  I sipped on Heed throughout the ride (not sure if this is valid). 
    I had chocolate milk as recovery drink, and bagel for food.

About 1 hour or so later, I started to feel a wave of GI sickness. Like my stomach was really heavy.

ryanp100 - 2010-01-03 11:26 PM I think Andy is on the right track with this one. Chocolate milk is a pretty good recovery drink, but the complex carbs in the bagel mixing with the HFCS in chocolate milk, as well as the maltodextrin/glucose in your Heed and Gu might be causing your GI distress. As an experiment, I might keep the same workout nutrition but just have the chocolate milk as your recovery drink. If you're craving some solid foods, try a PowerBar recovery bar or something like that. See if that helps. One more consideration is the composition of milk. A recovery drink like Endurox R4, PowerBar Recovery, Gu Recovery Brew, etc. usually utilizes whey protein, whereas milk has both whey and casein. Some people have an slight intolerance to casein that could get exacerbated if you've just had a hard workout. So if the chocolate milk without the bagel still causes problems, I'd try a recovery drink. Let us know how it goes!

Reno8 - 2010-01-03 8:36 PM
My point being...that while we strive to have the nutrition aspect of our training and racing events solidly in place sometimes things happen that cause the GI-Gods to revolt.

CQ...keep working on this as your training extends into longer times and log it, because what works on one day may be a problem another and what works for you might not be the ticket for someone else.

ryanp100 - 2010-01-03 8:26 PM I think Andy is on the right track with this one. Chocolate milk is a pretty good recovery drink, but the complex carbs in the bagel mixing with the HFCS in chocolate milk, as well as the maltodextrin/glucose in your Heed and Gu might be causing your GI distress. As an experiment, I might keep the same workout nutrition but just have the chocolate milk as your recovery drink. If you're craving some solid foods, try a PowerBar recovery bar or something like that. See if that helps. If that doesn't seem to work, go the other way and eliminate the Gu from the ride. Stick with the Hammer products and stay with their liquid nutrition. In other words, minimize the simple sugars as Andy suggested. One more consideration is the composition of milk. A recovery drink like Endurox R4, PowerBar Recovery, Gu Recovery Brew, etc. usually utilizes whey protein, whereas milk has both whey and casein. Some people have an slight intolerance to casein that could get exacerbated if you've just had a hard workout. So if the chocolate milk without the bagel still causes problems, I'd try a recovery drink. Let us know how it goes!

CyborgQueen - 2010-01-04 12:31 AM

Excellent point!! I never thought about it. I'm a bagel lover, so I never had any issues with bagels (and I'm sure many racers eat bagels/bread BEFORE the ride/race).  If I can recall correctly, this was the first time that I had Chocolate milk WITH bagel or any type of carbs after riding.  I was at Einstein Bros. Bagel place, so I was kinda stuck.  They (BLV that's hosting the Cake Ride) *usually* have bananas or orange slices and I eat those post rides, for some reason they didn't have it at this ride. If I was riding on my own, I just have chocolate milk at home within half hour or so later after the ride, and nothing else until the next meal time, usually within a couple hours. Today, I was just craving for solid food, since I didn't eat any and thought bagel won't be an issue. Definitely learned something new.

I'll try the Hammer products (and boy, do I have a lot of it!) next longish ride.  This is making me wonder if I should have use the Perpetuem, since I didn't eat.   I will keep on logging info on nutrition for my bike rides. Keep me in check!

SSMinnow - 2010-01-04 6:57 AM I think both Ryan and Steve bring up excellent points.  I cannot mix more than one sugar without having some GI issues during a ride or run.  The interesting this is it took an hour after you finished to feel sick.  Let me throw one other thing out there that affects me during hard training efforts and races where I am pushing myself beyond LT for an extended period of time. Your GI system will often send blood to your extremeties due to the hard effort and then when you try to eat solid foods too soon they cannot be digested well.  The result for me is a stomach ache, nasuea and the symptoms you described.  During those times I almost never can eat solid food for several hours afterwards.  I rely on liquids and even that is hard for me.  Not sure this happened to you, but something to keep in the back of your mind for when you start doing even harder efforts.

PS. Not sure of the fiber content of that bagel (they are usually low), but that could also contribute to the issue

CyborgQueen - 2010-01-04 12:31 AM

Excellent point!! I never thought about it. I'm a bagel lover, so I never had any issues with bagels (and I'm sure many racers eat bagels/bread BEFORE the ride/race).  If I can recall correctly, this was the first time that I had Chocolate milk WITH bagel or any type of carbs after riding.  I was at Einstein Bros. Bagel place, so I was kinda stuck.  They (BLV that's hosting the Cake Ride) *usually* have bananas or orange slices and I eat those post rides, for some reason they didn't have it at this ride. If I was riding on my own, I just have chocolate milk at home within half hour or so later after the ride, and nothing else until the next meal time, usually within a couple hours. Today, I was just craving for solid food, since I didn't eat any and thought bagel won't be an issue. Definitely learned something new.

I'll try the Hammer products (and boy, do I have a lot of it!) next longish ride.  This is making me wonder if I should have use the Perpetuem, since I didn't eat.   I will keep on logging info on nutrition for my bike rides. Keep me in check!

CyborgQueen - 2010-01-03 9:15 PM uh. Please don't shoot me for asking another "same-old" nutrition question.

Today, I went on a 26 mile ride (and I HTFU half way, I'm so proud of myself...seriously was ready to give up!!!). Part of the reason why the first half of the ride, I didn't eat prior to the ride (I mean seriously, duh?!). Anyways, I decided to grab a gel, (GU Vanilla Bean to be exact).  I sipped on Heed throughout the ride (not sure if this is valid).  I ate the full packet of gel. I was perfectly fine for the 2nd half of the ride. I'm not sure if I had a big energy boost from the gel or because it was pretty much downhill.

    I had chocolate milk as recovery drink, and bagel for food.

About 1 hour or so later, I started to feel a wave of GI sickness. Like my stomach was really heavy. Perhaps a little amount of nausea. After visiting the Porclein King and giving donations, not through the mouth if you know what I mean, I felt a little better. Took a nice warm bath, felt a lot better.

    Now, I don't usually eat gels because I've tried a couple times, and each time I felt like my mouth was so sticky and like it was way too much mucus, I just didn't like it in general.

  What I want to know is, is this whole thing has to do with gel? Gel and Heed combo? Or just lack of nutrition prior to the ride, or just poor nutrition plan both during and after the ride? I took the gel one hour into the ride...I don't think it's that bad. Total ride was just under 2 hours.

     Nutrition is something I seriously want to work on, but not overly crazy.  I just feel like I want to eat FOOD...NORMAL food, but I'm not sure what will give me energy bursts, and keep me long lasting.  Pepsi and Dr. Pepper will give me a HUGE amount of energy, but I suffer from sugar crash a day after, plus people will think I'm totally rude if I keep burping.

I don't think PopTarts and Fig Newtons are doing the trick, it does fill my stomach, but not giving me the energy.  Am I missing something here?  I'm just a little tired of not "knowing" what to do for nutrition for the bike. Swim - no need, Run - just water as I'm only maxing out at 5 to 6 miles.  If I go for one hour or less ride on the bike, just water. More than that, I'm clueless.

Thanks for the help!

tri-chic - 2010-01-04 9:19 AM

I don't do real well with Gels.  I almost always have issues with them. Hammer is better than GU for me though.  Another thought is that you NEED to be washing them down with water.  If you are only taking a GU with a sm sip here and there it's not going to be able to breakdown in your system and they can cause GI issues as well. 

There are lots of good comments on this from all of us.  I would suggest you experiment and only change one thing at a time that will help you determine exactly what the issue is.  What works for one person may not work for another.  For example.  For a 25 mile ride I'd have half a bagel OR a banana before my ride if I hadn't eaten recently, Ride with Water for an hour and maybe take a GU at the 50 min marker with more water.  HEED would be overkill for me (would add Heed for anything over 1.5hr).  After the ride the chocolate milk or Cranberry Juice and a Hard Boiled egg would do it for me.

For the record I love my Infinit formula over Heed or anything else for Taste and the fact I don't need Gu's and electrolytes to go with it. 

Reno8 - 2010-01-04 8:32 AM

Excellent point.  If the gel is just dumped into your system it will not only just sit there for a while it will take energy (i.e. blood flow) away from the muscles that need it in order to aid in digestion.

Steve

Jeepguy2358 - 2010-01-04 8:48 AM

Got a few questions.  

1.  Yesterday morning, I went out for my long run of the week (6.5 miles).  It was really cold for SC (around 21 degrees, wc was in the single digits).  It was the first day I had to wear my Mizuno running pants.  I started out feeling great.  Then at about mile 4.5, I noticed my quad and calf on my left leg begin to tighten up.  After feeling this, I stopped and stretched them.  Neither felt much better, but I kept going anyway and finished up around 7.5 miles.  Today, my quad seems to be fine, but my calf (actually more of my soleus) is sore.  Could the pain could be from my muscles tightening up due to not being acclimated to the cold?  Previously, I had been averaging between 5 to 6 mile runs two to three days per week with no pain. 

2.  Another running question.  I am trying to slowly build my base, using distance and HR as my guide.  During my races, I  averaged between 7 - 9 minute miles depending on distances.  With my current training, it seems to be more in the 9:30-10:15 range.  Am I going to conservative?  I'm shooting to keep my HR in check during all of my runs and right now, this is where my pace keeps me.  My guess is to let it fall where it may this time of year.

3.  Bike trainer question.  What is a reasonable speed to average on a trainer?  I know it all depends on the person, trainer, etc but just a general answer.  Again, during my races I can average around 19-21 mph, but on the trainer it is more like 16-17.  I'm not sure about the CT, but with my KK Road Machine, it is definitely more difficult than on the road.  I know, people throw out hills, wind, etc, but I think the biggest difference is momentum.  Obviously on a trainer, you can't get any momentum to carry you forward.  If I push any harder, my HR goes through the roof!  Again, I'm trying to build those longer slower miles right now.

I may answer a couple of my own questions by saying this too, but will state the obvious.  I know I am not in my true race shape right now.  I am about eight pounds heavier.  Thanks for all of the ideas and thoughts. 

Jeepguy2358 - 2010-01-04 7:48 AM

Got a few questions.  

1.  Yesterday morning, I went out for my long run of the week (6.5 miles).  It was really cold for SC (around 21 degrees, wc was in the single digits).  It was the first day I had to wear my Mizuno running pants.  I started out feeling great.  Then at about mile 4.5, I noticed my quad and calf on my left leg begin to tighten up.  After feeling this, I stopped and stretched them.  Neither felt much better, but I kept going anyway and finished up around 7.5 miles.  Today, my quad seems to be fine, but my calf (actually more of my soleus) is sore.  Could the pain could be from my muscles tightening up due to not being acclimated to the cold?  Previously, I had been averaging between 5 to 6 mile runs two to three days per week with no pain. 

2.  Another running question.  I am trying to slowly build my base, using distance and HR as my guide.  During my races, I  averaged between 7 - 9 minute miles depending on distances.  With my current training, it seems to be more in the 9:30-10:15 range.  Am I going to conservative?  I'm shooting to keep my HR in check during all of my runs and right now, this is where my pace keeps me.  My guess is to let it fall where it may this time of year.

3.  Bike trainer question.  What is a reasonable speed to average on a trainer?  I know it all depends on the person, trainer, etc but just a general answer.  Again, during my races I can average around 19-21 mph, but on the trainer it is more like 16-17.  I'm not sure about the CT, but with my KK Road Machine, it is definitely more difficult than on the road.  I know, people throw out hills, wind, etc, but I think the biggest difference is momentum.  Obviously on a trainer, you can't get any momentum to carry you forward.  If I push any harder, my HR goes through the roof!  Again, I'm trying to build those longer slower miles right now.

I may answer a couple of my own questions by saying this too, but will state the obvious.  I know I am not in my true race shape right now.  I am about eight pounds heavier.  Thanks for all of the ideas and thoughts. 

Jeepguy2358 - 2010-01-04 9:48 AM

Got a few questions.  

1.  Yesterday morning, I went out for my long run of the week (6.5 miles).  It was really cold for SC (around 21 degrees, wc was in the single digits).  It was the first day I had to wear my Mizuno running pants.  I started out feeling great.  Then at about mile 4.5, I noticed my quad and calf on my left leg begin to tighten up.  After feeling this, I stopped and stretched them.  Neither felt much better, but I kept going anyway and finished up around 7.5 miles.  Today, my quad seems to be fine, but my calf (actually more of my soleus) is sore.  Could the pain could be from my muscles tightening up due to not being acclimated to the cold?  Previously, I had been averaging between 5 to 6 mile runs two to three days per week with no pain. 
Not sure, my muscles don't seem to tighten based on temp, but could be since it never gets cold down there. 

2.  Another running question.  I am trying to slowly build my base, using distance and HR as my guide.  During my races, I  averaged between 7 - 9 minute miles depending on distances.  With my current training, it seems to be more in the 9:30-10:15 range.  Am I going to conservative?  I'm shooting to keep my HR in check during all of my runs and right now, this is where my pace keeps me.  My guess is to let it fall where it may this time of year.
My marathon plan had me doing my long runs at 10:00 - 10:30 with a "planned" marathon time of 3:50ish.  That was from my coach and also when I was doing my 1/2 marathon training plan from runners world.  So slower pace seems the way to go for the long run of the week.  I still try to do the 10:00 - 10:30 for all my runs that are not specified as tempo or speed runs.


3.  Bike trainer question.  What is a reasonable speed to average on a trainer?  I know it all depends on the person, trainer, etc but just a general answer.  Again, during my races I can average around 19-21 mph, but on the trainer it is more like 16-17.  I'm not sure about the CT, but with my KK Road Machine, it is definitely more difficult than on the road.  I know, people throw out hills, wind, etc, but I think the biggest difference is momentum.  Obviously on a trainer, you can't get any momentum to carry you forward.  If I push any harder, my HR goes through the roof!  Again, I'm trying to build those longer slower miles right now.
I think it depends on the tension you have on the trainer.  On the CT with very little slope I can run into the 30's easily.  When I am doing some of my tempo rides when in tempo pace I am in the mid 20's, recovery pace is 17-18 I think.  Mainly though I end up looking at watts more than speed.

LOL, sounds like you need to get on a winter plan to give you some focus.  I have the same problems without a plan.

I may answer a couple of my own questions by saying this too, but will state the obvious.  I know I am not in my true race shape right now.  I am about eight pounds heavier.  Thanks for all of the ideas and thoughts.