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2012-06-05 8:28 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED

Questions for the group that came to mind during/following my race this weekend.

  1. How do you avoid some back discomfort when transitioning from ride to run.  I'm not sore, but my upper back becomes pretty tight and it's taking about 3km for it to loosen up before I really feel comfortable to run.  Thoughts on geeting the back to work itself out a bit faster?
  2. Finding feet -  I can't seem to do it.  Either I'm stuck with someone slower in front or someone way faster.  How do I find swimmers to pull me along on the swim a bit?  I'm always swimming by myself doing all the work.
  3. Aero position - if I get aero right away and start pushing the power a bit I find my hip/glute tends to be pretty tight.  Should I just find some time to warm up before the race?  If so suggestions to loosen things up if I'm not able to take the bike out of transition?

Thanks everyone.

 



2012-06-05 8:35 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED
TSimone - 2012-06-04 12:34 PM

Just got the official results from my Oly.  2:39:26, a PR by about 7 minutes.  11/20 AG, 80/184 OA.  Pretty pleased with the result given my goals for the race.    

Nice job this weekend Rudy and Jason!    

Nice race Tom! Great job with the PR. It like grabbing at dangling carrot.
2012-06-05 8:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED
ratherbeswimming - 2012-06-04 5:26 PM

Working on my Oly race report from Quassy.

Wet + wind + hills + cold + borrowed bike = slowest bike split ever! But, I didn't crash or quit. And I actually had fun on the run!

Elaine, that was tough day. Glad to see you stick it out. A friend of mine won his age group and he said it was probably the toughest condition he had ever race .
2012-06-05 11:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED

Wow, what a great weekend of racing!!! Congrats!

I am around but in a constant state of fatigue from IM training and being pretty busy at work. Not too much to say.  I am hoping to put some work into my nutrition plan as i seem to have some things worked out but i know the heat will be a factor soon. Anyway, hope everyone is doing well.

2012-06-05 11:07 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED
Blinddave - 2012-06-04 4:16 PM
sicone - 2012-06-04 1:10 PM

Haven't had a chance to read people's race reports yet but congrats on the results

Just had an email to say my HIM on Sunday has been cancelled due to "water safety concerns". There's another race in September I might do instead but as everyone in the U.K. is doing some form of street party for the Queen's jubilee, I'll leave that til later to decide.

Ditto..

Oh that sucks, guys ... September is a long way off and you've done all that training!

2012-06-05 12:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED
GoFaster - 2012-06-05 9:28 AM

Questions for the group that came to mind during/following my race this weekend.

  1. How do you avoid some back discomfort when transitioning from ride to run.  I'm not sore, but my upper back becomes pretty tight and it's taking about 3km for it to loosen up before I really feel comfortable to run.  Thoughts on geeting the back to work itself out a bit faster?
  2. Finding feet -  I can't seem to do it.  Either I'm stuck with someone slower in front or someone way faster.  How do I find swimmers to pull me along on the swim a bit?  I'm always swimming by myself doing all the work.
  3. Aero position - if I get aero right away and start pushing the power a bit I find my hip/glute tends to be pretty tight.  Should I just find some time to warm up before the race?  If so suggestions to loosen things up if I'm not able to take the bike out of transition?

Thanks everyone.

 

Neil,
 
Question #1
Conditioning and fitness helps this.  When I started ridding on the road again after my treatment my limit was around 1 hour before my back bothered me.  Not than I stop but now the back doesn’t bother me until 3 hours on the bike in aero.  Then again depends on the intensity.  Also it may not always be the back; it may be the shoulders or the feet.  It does subside. 
 
Question #2
Tough one and comes with years of experiences and luck.  I have caught a good draft then that person slows off my pace.  I just prepare myself to swim alone and prepare to get kicked. 
 
Question #3
Conditioning, fitness and stretching helps me.  Warmups is not very practical for big races unless you bring another bike.  I see people warming up on a trainer at smaller races.  I will jog and stretch.  Also depends on the temps for me. 
 
I hope it this makes sense.
 


2012-06-05 12:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED
tasr - 2012-06-05 1:00 PM
GoFaster - 2012-06-05 9:28 AM

Questions for the group that came to mind during/following my race this weekend.

  1. How do you avoid some back discomfort when transitioning from ride to run.  I'm not sore, but my upper back becomes pretty tight and it's taking about 3km for it to loosen up before I really feel comfortable to run.  Thoughts on geeting the back to work itself out a bit faster?
  2. Finding feet -  I can't seem to do it.  Either I'm stuck with someone slower in front or someone way faster.  How do I find swimmers to pull me along on the swim a bit?  I'm always swimming by myself doing all the work.
  3. Aero position - if I get aero right away and start pushing the power a bit I find my hip/glute tends to be pretty tight.  Should I just find some time to warm up before the race?  If so suggestions to loosen things up if I'm not able to take the bike out of transition?

Thanks everyone.

 

Neil,
 
Question #1
Conditioning and fitness helps this.  When I started ridding on the road again after my treatment my limit was around 1 hour before my back bothered me.  Not than I stop but now the back doesn’t bother me until 3 hours on the bike in aero.  Then again depends on the intensity.  Also it may not always be the back; it may be the shoulders or the feet.  It does subside. 
 
Question #2
Tough one and comes with years of experiences and luck.  I have caught a good draft then that person slows off my pace.  I just prepare myself to swim alone and prepare to get kicked. 
 
Question #3
Conditioning, fitness and stretching helps me.  Warmups is not very practical for big races unless you bring another bike.  I see people warming up on a trainer at smaller races.  I will jog and stretch.  Also depends on the temps for me. 
 
I hope it this makes sense.
 

Neil, just to add James' great advice. I wonder if for item 2 it's a matter of some practice.  I tend to stay away from others because i am a nervous swimmer but my swim group which is coached by a local pro  will do some of this prep work in the pool and in the open water. A few weeks ago we took out lane ropes in the pool and she gave us a demo and coached us on the best ways to draft and then we practiced a little.

But i know there are groups like Personal Best who will do weekend open water practices where it might feasible to get in a bit of swim drafting practice ... not sure though.  The group that I swim with will be doing OW at Cherry Beach which i know is out of the way for you ...

2012-06-05 3:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED
Still a bit sore today...but getting better.  Used the foam roller this morning and that helped.  I can walk down stairs a bit more "normal" now.
2012-06-05 4:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED

tri808 - 2012-06-05 4:27 PM Still a bit sore today...but getting better.  Used the foam roller this morning and that helped.  I can walk down stairs a bit more "normal" now.

 

dood, I know that story!!!  I live in a 3 flight of stair house, yesterday was hell!!

Almost feel normal today, but that is what happens when you walk half the run, you recover quick!!

 

2012-06-05 7:37 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED
Thanks guys - Jen, T.O. is just a bit of a stretch for swims.  Especially when I have Kelso 5min from my front door.  But thanks for the suggestions.
2012-06-05 7:49 PM
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2012-06-06 8:25 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED

GoFaster - 2012-06-05 8:37 PM Thanks guys - Jen, T.O. is just a bit of a stretch for swims.  Especially when I have Kelso 5min from my front door.  But thanks for the suggestions.

Yeah, totally get that.  But i am sure there are others ...  I think i have seen that Barrie Shepley's group meets out in Caledon way which might be better for you ... http://www.personalbest.ca/component/content/article/14-weekly/48-2012-wed-night-open-water-swim-series

Still not as convenient as Kelso - where tons of others swim - I just did a quick search and there's this group with a fee

http://kelsoopenwaterswimming.blogspot.ca/ 

2012-06-06 8:27 AM
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2012-06-06 8:38 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED

finally feeling normal.  Body feels good and mentally i am good also.

Just took a coulple days of reflection and rest, but i am in a much better place for the effort i had put in.

 

How is everyone else that raced doing??

2012-06-06 9:22 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED

What a weekend of great racing, everyone!

Tom - that is a solid PR, and Elaine - from the sounds of it just finishing that race is a win in my book. And to do it on a borrowed bike AND have a great run, WOW!

Neil, bummer to be so close to the AG podium, especially when you feel like you blew you transitions. I think we have all been there. Still sounds like a great race against a stacked field.

Jason - I like racing, but I LOVE racing against friends, especially when it becomes a footrace to the wire. The group of friends that I race with we all went in together over 20 years ago and bought a trophy that says "The Champion" on it and whoever wins whatever race we are doing gets to keep it until the next race. We have added all kinds of stuff to it over the years including extra tiers - it is now almost four feet tall. I have never won a prize in a race that is more glorious.

Rudy - awesome job this weekend, I cannot believe you are already back on your feet. I think I would still be in bed... It takes me literally DAYS to get to where I can get up and down the stairs like a normal human being after a HIM...

My sprint race was perfectly craptastic - I felt flat and never really could get going. In fact I am pretty sure I threw in the towel mentally within about 100 yards of the swim start. I really did not want to race and would have rather been out training, even though I KNOW this race was subbed in for LT work - I think my brain is squarely locked in on IMLP which is now only 6.5 weeks away. The upside is that on Sunday I had a great ride and yesterday an awesome swim. So now my biggest fear is that I am getting really good at working out but worse at racing... so goes IM training, I guess...

2012-06-06 9:42 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED
GoFaster - 2012-06-05 9:28 AM

Questions for the group that came to mind during/following my race this weekend.

  1. How do you avoid some back discomfort when transitioning from ride to run.  I'm not sore, but my upper back becomes pretty tight and it's taking about 3km for it to loosen up before I really feel comfortable to run.  Thoughts on geeting the back to work itself out a bit faster?
  2. Finding feet -  I can't seem to do it.  Either I'm stuck with someone slower in front or someone way faster.  How do I find swimmers to pull me along on the swim a bit?  I'm always swimming by myself doing all the work.
  3. Aero position - if I get aero right away and start pushing the power a bit I find my hip/glute tends to be pretty tight.  Should I just find some time to warm up before the race?  If so suggestions to loosen things up if I'm not able to take the bike out of transition?

Thanks everyone.

  1. I don't really suffer from this (probably just jinxed it though), but in HIM and longer I do use that last 3 miles or so on the bike to stretch out really good and don't mind siting up to do so. In shorter races near the end I stay in aero but make sure I drop my shoulders and rotate them each front and back. I also will curve/uncurve my back (press and lift your belly button toward and away from your top tube).
  2. Don't be so sure those "slow" feet are really that slow. Just like drafting on the bike, I have found that it will often feel that way until you get off and go around, and by then you may have lost them. In the beginning I will jump on some feet but also Tarzan swim a bit to see where the packs are forming up and try to get on them. It is good to practice - the fasties I get to swim with in open water don't mind me sitting on if I can - they like the practice as well.
  3. I always do better with a good warm up - I don't feel like I can really get going until I have 30 minutes or so on my legs. I start with 10 minutes or so of dynamic warmup. If i can I will then bike the first part of the course, but that is not always possible in bigger races. If cycling is a no-go, then I will instead try to get a run in. It is mostly easy, but with 4~6x20 second strides mixed in. If swimming is allowed, I will finish with that - a warm up of sighting/scouting the buoys and exit, then 10 minutes or so of legit swimming.


2012-06-06 10:40 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED

Not sure there could be a worse weather forecast for the race this weekend.  The hottest day of the year...90 degrees and humid...shiiiiiit! 

I am not usually one to worry about the race forecast but I have had some not so good issues in the recent past at my last HIM with heat.  I have learned my lesson but still.

Definitely going to be erring on the side of caution during the run.  I feel like I have a well thought out plan but still mentally going to be a tough day likely.

 

2012-06-06 1:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED
Rudedog55 - 2012-06-06 3:38 AM

finally feeling normal.  Body feels good and mentally i am good also.

Just took a coulple days of reflection and rest, but i am in a much better place for the effort i had put in.

 

How is everyone else that raced doing??

Finally feeling somewhat normal too.  I still "feel" it in my legs, but I can operate normally now when walking down stairs, getting up off my chair, or get into my car. 

I got in a semi hard group ride yesterday, and probably won't run till next week after my 40k TT.  Just going to spin and swim a few times, and mix in one more semi hard ride tomorrow.

2012-06-06 2:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED
rymac - 2012-06-06 11:40 AM

Not sure there could be a worse weather forecast for the race this weekend.  The hottest day of the year...90 degrees and humid...shiiiiiit! 

I am not usually one to worry about the race forecast but I have had some not so good issues in the recent past at my last HIM with heat.  I have learned my lesson but still.

Definitely going to be erring on the side of caution during the run.  I feel like I have a well thought out plan but still mentally going to be a tough day likely.

 

Oh no - you have good reason to be cautious.  The heat can really drain the fun out of a day ... but you've got this - you've trained hard, learned a hard lesson from last year and you're ready to go!

2012-06-06 7:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED
TankBoy - 2012-05-29 11:26 AM

The best part of this weekend is it seems that we finally got my wife's bike squared away. I rechecked the setup and alignment of her front derailleur one last time. James - I always use a penny to set the spacing between the FD cage and the big chain ring which gives right at 1.5mm of gap. I took it into my mechanic and he tried dropping it down even further just to see if it had any effect. Nope, still the same. He then re-cabled it (including new housing), but that did not help either. You could make the tiniest adjustment to the limit screw and it would either not shift up to the big chain ring at all or it would drop to the outside. It really was the craziest thing. I was still not convinced it was not a problem with the internal routing, so I actually went through it myself with the mechanic. I have never messed with internal cabling before, so I learned a lot. On her bike you darn near have to take the entire thing apart just to get to all the access points. At any rate, that did not make it any better, but it did convince me that cabling was not an issue.

So, the solution in this case was to get rid of the SRAM front derailleur completely (I had already swapped from Red to Force) and replace it with Dura Ace. We also swapped the Red rings to Dura Ace along with the chain. The chain ring switch took a little bit of machining to get the rings to fit the Quarq power meter/SRAM cranks.

The bike shifts like a dream now - it is rock solid and smooth no matter how hard you hit it, and the wife is ecstatic. She now wants to change the rear to Dura Ace when the season is over. The only thing that I have left to do is recalibrate the PM, put I have to get a laboratory-grade 20 lb weight to do that. It is already on order from McMaster Carr.

I still don't think there is anything wrong with SRAM - I have Red on my road bike and it is awesome - nice and solid. Not as smooth as the Shimano on my tri-bike, but it is swift and reliable. The only thing I am left to think is that it is just something up with the interface of the SRAM with her particular model of bike. I am just glad that it seems we have it worked out finally. Here is what it looks like - I actually think it would have worked without swapping the chain rings, but I was honestly done dealing with it and did not want to leave a stone unturned. If this had not worked she was getting an entirely new bike this week.

My mechanic tried to work on my issues, including having to bend the cage a little back into shape, but it's still not working right.  Just ordered a new Force FD to replace the Rival one that's acting up.  Hopefully that will resolve the issue.  Part won't come in till next week, so we'll see.

2012-06-07 7:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED

Rusty - sorry the race didn't go as planned.  I've found that I'm sometimes a better trainer than racer, and like you said I think it has to be where your mind is on race day.  My long time training partner and friend just rises to the occasion on race day - I can push him all over the place during training, but he just steps up on the day of.  Your head just needs to be in the game.  Thanks for the advice on my other post.

Ryan - I'm a wimp in the heat.  I definitely melt a bit.  Stick to the plan that you have in mind, and just be sure to hold back a little bit at the beginning of the run till you figure out exactly what your body will let you get away with.



2012-06-07 8:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED

Couple of new questions:

  1. What is the best way to get the most out of using paddles?  I swam with them a couple of times in the last week, and used then with a pull buoy.  I just want to make sure I'm being as effective as possible.
  2. Tempo runs - what kind of HR zones are you targeting?  I ran with some guys from the LRS last night and we did a 1km warm up and then they jumped to a 4:15/km pace for the next 9km.  I told myself that if I couldn't hang on then I'd drop off, but I was okay - and felt pretty good about it affterwards.  Most of the run was in high Z3 to low Z4 (but getting a bit higher in the last couple of km).

I'm really hoping to spend more time running with these guys to push myself to that next level for the run.

2012-06-07 8:37 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED

Neil: i wish i could advise on paddles - when swimming with our group I tend to use the pull buoy as well just so I can focus on good pulling form.

Well, i had a super fun swim last night - the coach added some fun parts specifically for race prep:

1. Open water starts - everyone in a lane starts together to practice the mass start.  We had four in our lane and really only three can sort of fit across the lane.  One girl got scratched really badly but overall it was fun.  Got to draft a bit and get the heart rate up

2. up and out of the pool - a good number of us are doing a race where the swim is two loops so we would jump/dive in to the pool, then sprint the 25 and jump out of the pool and then jump right back in.  The coach wanted us to have a higher heart rate jumping back in so she had us do a couple of burpees at one point before jumping back in. 

Definitely out of my comfort zone (and man, do i suck! I mean, i barely know how to dive - i did it a few nervous times when i was taking lessons a few years ago but that's about it)  but i thought super fun overall.

But feeling tired overall. I feel like i could sleep a whole weekend away and still be tired. I guess them's the breaks with Ironman training and still being grown up and going to work and all.  Though, i am happy with how fit i do feel.

2012-06-07 9:55 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED
GoFaster - 2012-06-07 9:06 AM

Couple of new questions:

  1. What is the best way to get the most out of using paddles?  I swam with them a couple of times in the last week, and used then with a pull buoy.  I just want to make sure I'm being as effective as possible.
  2. Tempo runs - what kind of HR zones are you targeting?  I ran with some guys from the LRS last night and we did a 1km warm up and then they jumped to a 4:15/km pace for the next 9km.  I told myself that if I couldn't hang on then I'd drop off, but I was okay - and felt pretty good about it affterwards.  Most of the run was in high Z3 to low Z4 (but getting a bit higher in the last couple of km).

I'm really hoping to spend more time running with these guys to push myself to that next level for the run.

Neil:  I use paddles sparingly and usually just try to do shorter set intervals (50-150) with good form trying to build strength.

Your second question is variable and depends on what the goal of the workout is.  I do not run by HR but use pace and use the tables from Mcmillan (or Daniels) to establish what speed I should be running for a typical interval.  If you plug a recent race time into the site it will spit out some interval paces at you.

Your HR will be highly variable depending on the length of the interval but high Z3/low Z4 sounds reasonable for a 'tempo' type workout.

2012-06-07 10:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED
GoFaster - 2012-06-07 9:06 AM

Couple of new questions:

  1. What is the best way to get the most out of using paddles?  I swam with them a couple of times in the last week, and used then with a pull buoy.  I just want to make sure I'm being as effective as possible.
  2. Tempo runs - what kind of HR zones are you targeting?  I ran with some guys from the LRS last night and we did a 1km warm up and then they jumped to a 4:15/km pace for the next 9km.  I told myself that if I couldn't hang on then I'd drop off, but I was okay - and felt pretty good about it affterwards.  Most of the run was in high Z3 to low Z4 (but getting a bit higher in the last couple of km).

I'm really hoping to spend more time running with these guys to push myself to that next level for the run.

I think of paddles as almost turning swimming into strength training... so you'd want to include it during training cycles where you're building strength. I also love them just to break up the monotony of a long set. For some reason 10x100 seems shorter if I use paddles for #5 and #10. 

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