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Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. (Page 64)
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 2014-03-19 11:01 PM in reply to: marcag |
Member  258  |  Subject: RE: Week 9I'd always blown off the aero discussions in the past, thinking I wasn't fast enough that it mattered, but now that I know what 12 watts feels like SIGN ME UP! I got a zip on rear wheel cover when I got my power meter for Christmas, and I found a cheap aero helmet at the bike swap. Now maybe I won't be too embarrassed to use them.  I had some time to catch up on posts tonight because I am recovering from the stomach flu from hell. I was thrilled to eat rice today. I actually got on the trainer and did about half of VO2 max, but then I think my fuel ran out. Not surprising really, but it just felt good to get the heart rate up a little after 3 days. I raced on Saturday, a local "run-swim-run" race. I was bummed there was no bike because that's what I've been working on, and neglecting my run and swim. But I am happy to report that my run time was very similar to my best times last year, and so was my swim, so there appears to be some crossover from all this work on the bike. Seriously, I hadn't done anything but easy runs with some occasional strides. I ended up first in my AG and 5th woman overall. Now I'm really looking forward to my first real tri of the season at the end of April! Jaime |
| 2014-03-20 7:27 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722  | Subject: RE: Week 9 Originally posted by tallytom Been busy training and hopefully Sunday I will get to upload my rides into GC and check out my PMC chart. Here's a pic of my position from last weeks race. Contemplating dropping a spacer or 2, but have raced 2 IM's in this position and have felt great. You should experiment with head position. 5 watts are easy to find . Probably more Some people can afford to get lower in front by rotating their position around the BB but you are already very forward on your seat Side pics are most revealing Edited by marcag 2014-03-20 7:28 AM |
| 2014-03-20 7:44 AM in reply to: marcag |
Veteran 1677  Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: Week 9 Finished Week 11, Threshold 2 this morning. I know it was technically "easier" than Threshold 1, but I seemed to struggle a little more. I had to give myself a couple pep talks throughout the last two intervals. Mentally, I was all in....my legs were burning and wanted to call it a day -- as we've said before, "shut up, legs!" When are we planning to talk more about aero testing? I'd be curious to actually see how all the little things add up. Would be interesting to compare my bike with the training wheels (decent tires, but butyl tubes) and a road helmet versus race wheels (plus wheel cover and latex tubes) and the new Specialized Evade helmet that I ordered but haven't yet gotten. And then compare different body/head positions... |
| 2014-03-20 7:58 AM in reply to: marcag |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: Week 9 Originally posted by marcag The biggest savings will be to reduce your frontal area. A combination of getting low (within reason), optimizing arm position and head position can yield huge savings. If you have a webcam, put in front of the trainer and film yourself. Film yourself as is Drop your head as much as you can, and film yourself Bring your elbows in and film yourself Then take a free software named imageJ, that you can define an area with the mouse and it will compute the area. You will see how much of a change in area you can make, it's huge You can add up all the savings Body position Head position Lower in front Elbows in Wheels (disc cover and aero front) Clothes Hydration system Tires and tubes Clean drivetrain, good chain, well lubed Tidy up cabling Flat kits I't easy to find 25w Quoting this because it is good stuff. Those top 4 don't require any money and will get you 95% (guessing) of the way there. Just a couple of more points to consider for those who haven't taken the time to dial it in. 1. Position needs to be tailored to your race. Are you doing an Ironman or a sprint? Big difference. You can sacrifice comfort for the sake of speed for <1hr, but do you want to do it for 5 and run a marathon? Probably not. Need to find that balance. 2. For those with power, you will need to see if your power output is changing a lot in the aggressive position and what the tradeoff is by doing a couple of trial runs. You could do it without as well on a common stretch of rode in similar conditions you ride frequently. Are you lowering drag, but lowering power too much? Also a balance. 3. If you are carrying extra weight in the mid-section, your ability to ride in an optimal position will be compromised. Not that I know anything about that! |
| 2014-03-20 8:13 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Week 9 Originally posted by JAYCT Just a couple of more points to consider for those who haven't taken the time to dial it in. 1. Position needs to be tailored to your race. Are you doing an Ironman or a sprint? Big difference. You can sacrifice comfort for the sake of speed for <1hr, but do you want to do it for 5 and run a marathon? Probably not. Need to find that balance. 2. For those with power, you will need to see if your power output is changing a lot in the aggressive position and what the tradeoff is by doing a couple of trial runs. You could do it without as well on a common stretch of rode in similar conditions you ride frequently. Are you lowering drag, but lowering power too much? Also a balance. 3. If you are carrying extra weight in the mid-section, your ability to ride in an optimal position will be compromised. Not that I know anything about that! Jason's points are very important. Slamming your front end down will probably yield minimal aero benefits, will compromise the power you can deliver (by closing your hip angle) and probably kill your back and shoulders and you will be riding on the horns for 3/4 of an IM. Many factors are at play here. It's everything from your seat height (very important) to your elbow position. Lots is details...this will make a great discussion Edited by marcag 2014-03-20 8:14 AM |
| 2014-03-20 8:30 AM in reply to: 0 |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Week 11 Yesterday was my brithday and I had grand designs on Biking, Running and Swimming. I completed Week 11 - Threshold 1 in the morning and then ate my way through the rest of the day and played XBOX games for entertainment. (Note, no running or swimming.. ;( ) The bike workout felt tougher than I thought it would. I converted it to 2x15' @ CP with the additional 10' interval at 101% CP. Given how I did on the Sweet Spot for week 10 I thought I would cruise through yesterday's. Definitely doable but felt like I had to push to get it done. In hindsight, I think it was my highest TSS for a Threshold 1 workout during this training program. http://connect.garmin.com/activity/463833995 <-- Week 11 Threshold 1 http://connect.garmin.com/activity/461982927 <-- Week 10 Sweet Spot Edited by trisuppo 2014-03-20 8:33 AM (Capture.PNG) Attachments ---------------- Capture.PNG (217KB - 7 downloads) |
| 2014-03-20 9:10 AM in reply to: marcag |
Pro 4482 NJ | Subject: RE: Week 9 Originally posted by marcag Jason's points are very important. Slamming your front end down will probably yield minimal aero benefits, will compromise the power you can deliver (by closing your hip angle) and probably kill your back and shoulders and you will be riding on the horns for 3/4 of an IM. Many factors are at play here. It's everything from your seat height (very important) to your elbow position. Lots is details...this will make a great discussion Lots of things to think about here...all interesting. Could someone elaborate a bit on "tidying up cables?" |
| 2014-03-20 9:29 PM in reply to: kcarroll |
| 1053 | Subject: RE: Week 9 Here is my current racing setup. I may go for a professional fit after my HIM and train with that up to my IM, but I'm not sure of the benefits, and I am nervous about changing things up too much. I am pretty comfortable in this position, and just did my 3.5 hour ride yesterday stretching out a minute or two here and there, but not much. Anyone see any glaring issues? (LP2013bikeposition.png) Attachments ---------------- LP2013bikeposition.png (826KB - 5 downloads) |
| 2014-03-21 6:29 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Week 9 Originally posted by ligersandtions When are we planning to talk more about aero testing? I'd be curious to actually see how all the little things add up. Would be interesting to compare my bike with the training wheels (decent tires, but butyl tubes) and a road helmet versus race wheels (plus wheel cover and latex tubes) and the new Specialized Evade helmet that I ordered but haven't yet gotten. And then compare different body/head positions... I can tell you what I do, maybe RChaung can add his comments and if others have tested they can give their ideas. FIrst of all, most of my testing is done during a training session. I try to get some training benefit when I test. I never go out just to test. There are types of testing I do. First is racing. If you have a race file that is the best. You need a power file with altitude (preferrably from a barometric altimeter). You need to know temp and atmospheric pressure and you load it into GC aerolab as we did for Jason. If someone has a file we can use it as an example When out training, days with no/low wind are the best. Or find a section of road that is sheltered from wind. Pick a section you can stay in aero, ie no stop signs, traffic lights..... I use two tools. Excel and GC Example of a use of Excel. This requires a flat course. When I am in Montreal for example, I use the Formula 1 race track to test. It's a 5km loop, mostly flat, or at least flat enough for my purposes. What I do is laps at constant power. So I will do a lap at 100w, 140w, 180w, 220w, 260w...as high as I can. I press the lap button every time around. I simply then plot average speed against average power in Excel and put a trendline through the data points and get a Power/Speed curve. I can also add other test points. When in Florida, there was long stretch of flat road. I did that test going in one direction, then the same thing in the opposite direction. I attached the plot and you can see the curve is slightly different in each direction, due to very slight wind. But it's close enough Then there is a data point (green triangle) where I simply dropped my head to see the difference head position made. That point is 5w less than the red line. This is a very simple way to go. I have over complicated spreadsheets that can calculate crr and cda but to be honest, better off just using GC for that. A few notes -The more laps the better to see if you can get a nice even graph -I typically do a "baseline" then I test data points (like head down) and compare them to the baseline -The bigger range of power, the better. I'll write up some notes on how I use GC this weekend. Edited by marcag 2014-03-21 6:56 AM (Screenshot 2014-03-21 07.30.47.png) Attachments ---------------- Screenshot 2014-03-21 07.30.47.png (60KB - 1 downloads) |
| 2014-03-21 6:46 AM in reply to: ImSore |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Week 9 Originally posted by ImSore I am nervous about changing things up too much And this is the problem. There is no doubt you have many watts to save. Your frontal area is quite big. But if you do it at the expense of comfort and sit up half your race, that's silly. You *may* be a candidate for rotating your entire body around the bottom bracket to get lower in front. Idea being that all your angles remain about the same, except your are riding steeper and lower in front. but your hip/arm angles remain the same. You want to experiment with dropping your head (turtling) and your arm width. You want a really good fitter. I suspect as your arms come in, head goes down...you will feel it in the shoulders/neck. It may be worth doing an extreme position change just to see how much of a difference it makes, then decide how far you want to go. |
| 2014-03-21 6:54 AM in reply to: kcarroll |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Week 9 Originally posted by kcarroll Could someone elaborate a bit on "tidying up cables?" First of all I don't think you are going to save tons here, but every little bit helps and sometimes it's easy to route things differently. Idea being to minimize the length and amount of cable exposed to the wind. Probably an insignificant detail, but look at the cable hanging out there on Ron's picture, on the right. Sometimes re-routing or attaching it is not possible. |
| 2014-03-21 7:42 AM in reply to: ImSore |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Week 9 Originally posted by ImSore Anyone see any glaring issues? I would say that there are certainly gains to be had, depending on how much you want to tinker and what saving a few minutes (for no extra fitness gains) is worth to you. IME, when you first make a change to your position, it is usually not going to feel as comfortable as your old position and many athletes then give up on the new position. What I would do instead is make some changes and then ride in that position for a couple of weeks and see how it feels after you log a few hundred km's in that position. Things I would try if I were you: - turtle your head - bringing your elbows together - lowering your front end The questions will become what will work to allow you to ride 180km and still run well as there is always going to be a comfort/performance trade-off and ending up with a position that looks great but that you end up riding 90km's on the horns is going to be less effective than one where you are a little less aero but can maintain the position. However, being able to maintain aero for the race distance takes committment to getting used to the position and this means doing long training rides locked into the position in order to adapt. For example, when I rode my trainer, I would put my tribike on in November/December and make a major adjustment (like dropping all my spacers) and then ride all winter in the new position. By the time I hit the road in the spring, the position felt "comfortable" and I was able to maintain through my races. My focus was short course so I was only looking at racing 40km in my position but I also had several longer rides (up to 90km) in this position and could maintain it for those distances fairly easily. Although I made some changes after these pictures, this is close to where my position was when i was racing regularly: http://zoomphoto.ca/eventgallerysearch/12699/35/1/ Shane |
| 2014-03-21 9:02 AM in reply to: 0 |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: Week 9 Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by ImSore I am nervous about changing things up too much And this is the problem. There is no doubt you have many watts to save. Your frontal area is quite big. But if you do it at the expense of comfort and sit up half your race, that's silly. You *may* be a candidate for rotating your entire body around the bottom bracket to get lower in front. Idea being that all your angles remain about the same, except your are riding steeper and lower in front. but your hip/arm angles remain the same. You want to experiment with dropping your head (turtling) and your arm width. You want a really good fitter. I suspect as your arms come in, head goes down...you will feel it in the shoulders/neck. It may be worth doing an extreme position change just to see how much of a difference it makes, then decide how far you want to go. I agree with this. Hey, couple other thoughts. What about jersey drag and drag on different kits. I did a time trial last summer and was racing against a bunch of guys in long sleeve skin suits. I just wore a tight underarmour sleeveless shirt (had it on under my regular bike jersey that I took off since I rode to the TT). I looked like a Fred, but I won it and $100 bucks so they weren't laughing then (just Cat 4/5 mixed field)...sorry for front door brag....anyway, what are the watts savings there? I've been reading various things like it could be a 10 watts swing or so. I was thinking about this morning at 6:00AM when I went out on my first morning 'spring' ride. It was 35 degrees and dark for most of it. I saw my watts on my road bike and wasn't feeling very slippery in all my winter gear bundled up. Felt so slow for the watts I was putting out. Edited by JAYCT 2014-03-21 9:08 AM |
| 2014-03-21 9:30 AM in reply to: JAYCT |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Week 9 Originally posted by JAYCT Hey, couple other thoughts. What about jersey drag and drag on different kits. I did a time trial last summer and was racing against a bunch of guys in long sleeve skin suits. I just wore a tight underarmour sleeveless shirt (had it on under my regular bike jersey that I took off since I rode to the TT). I looked like a Fred, but I won it and $100 bucks so they weren't laughing then (just Cat 4/5 mixed field)...sorry for front door brag....anyway, what are the watts savings there? I've been reading various things like it could be a 10 watts swing or so. I was thinking about this morning at 6:00AM when I went out on my first morning 'spring' ride. It was 35 degrees and dark for most of it. I saw my watts on my road bike and wasn't feeling very slippery in all my winter gear bundled up. Felt so slow for the watts I was putting out. There are a few guys on ST that are very knowledgeable and who are talking a lot about tight fitting fabric and the big differences it makes. One thing for sure, tight is important, wrinkles are bad, the more skin covered the better. But how you do this for an IM in warm weather is a big question for me. The type of fabric makes a big difference. Desert Dude, Jim@Erosports and Ex-cyclist are providing a lot of info on this topic on ST. Rich, for a test, how much can you very easily Move your saddle forward (in cm) ? Move your pads forward (in cm) ? Move your pads down (in cm) ? Move your pads together (in cm) For example, I can move my seat forward 2.5cm, my pads forward 1.5cm and down 1.5cm and keep my exact same hip and arm angles. The only difference is I am steeper (which can affect power production) and it's harder for me to look up the road. Imagine taking your position and rotating clockwise around the BB (if looking from the drive side). Just slamming the front down will reduce your closed hip angle and can impact power production. Also, getting the highest, but correct seat height is important. If I were you, I would do a baseline test with the setup shown Then I would do a maximal rotation around BB (based on the numbers above), lose the hydration stuff, and do the test with a turtled head (will provide some pics). If no improvement, go back. If improvement, then you have decisions to make. I suspect we aren't talk a watt or two here. Just make sure it's really easy to go back to your position after a test. |
| 2014-03-22 12:11 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
| 190 | Subject: RE: Week 9 Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by ImSore Anyone see any glaring issues? I would say that there are certainly gains to be had, depending on how much you want to tinker and what saving a few minutes (for no extra fitness gains) is worth to you. IME, when you first make a change to your position, it is usually not going to feel as comfortable as your old position and many athletes then give up on the new position. What I would do instead is make some changes and then ride in that position for a couple of weeks and see how it feels after you log a few hundred km's in that position. Things I would try if I were you: - turtle your head - bringing your elbows together - lowering your front end Get rid of the straw. Maybe the visor, too. |
| 2014-03-22 9:39 PM in reply to: RChung |
| 1053 | Subject: RE: Week 9 Originally posted by RChung Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by ImSore Anyone see any glaring issues? I would say that there are certainly gains to be had, depending on how much you want to tinker and what saving a few minutes (for no extra fitness gains) is worth to you. IME, when you first make a change to your position, it is usually not going to feel as comfortable as your old position and many athletes then give up on the new position. What I would do instead is make some changes and then ride in that position for a couple of weeks and see how it feels after you log a few hundred km's in that position. Things I would try if I were you: - turtle your head - bringing your elbows together - lowering your front end Get rid of the straw. Maybe the visor, too. Originally posted by marcag Rich, for a test, how much can you very easily Move your saddle forward (in cm) ? Move your pads forward (in cm) ? Move your pads down (in cm) ? Move your pads together (in cm) Just make sure it's really easy to go back to your position after a test. Wow, great advice all. It was finally sort of a nice day. Temperature was nice, but it was very windy. I still got my first outdoor ride of the year in. It wasn't one of our designed workouts, I wanted to do one, but I wasted too much time out there just fooling around watching my powermeter doing all sorts of things =/. I did try to make it count and did 3 x 10 minute repeats at 90%, 103%, and 103% FTP, and I did accumulate 109 TSS in the end. It was way too windy to do any real aerodynamic testing, but I did work on trying to get into a "turtle" position into some of the strong headwinds. I focused on keeping my head low and in front of my shoulders. Marc, Move your saddle forward (in cm) ? 5 cm Move your pads forward (in cm) ? 3 cm Move your pads down (in cm) ? 0 cm (without lowering the bars themselves) Move your pads together (in cm)? 1 cm each So, my understanding is that I want to flatten my torso, but not close my hip angle. So my goal is then, to rotate my body forward by lowering the front a bit, and moving forward a bit. I have never tried to lower my bars, I probably can figure it out, but I may just leave it for a professional. For now, I will probably just move my arms in and see how it feels, and also work on trying to keep my head down as Shane and others suggested. As soon as I get another decent day with no wind, I'll try to test arms in and head down, versus what I've been doing and see what the gains are. Other than that, I'll get through my first race in 6 weeks, and then consider a more drastic change. Dr. Chung, Is the straw really that significant? I just had two thoughts. If I changed to a bottle there, for an average rider, would the shifting out of position to drink significantly cut into the aero benefit of no straw? And also, having the straw right in your face is a great reminder to stay hydrated, so if it is a watt or so only (I have no clue of what the savings would actually be), perhaps that is a reasonable loss to increase the chances of better hydration? And getting rid of the visor is easy, I prefer my sunglasses anyhow! (hopefully they are ok?) It is interesting how the visor is slower, on looks alone it looks faster. |
| 2014-03-23 5:31 AM in reply to: ImSore |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Week 9 Originally posted by ImSore Originally posted by RChung Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by ImSore Anyone see any glaring issues? I would say that there are certainly gains to be had, depending on how much you want to tinker and what saving a few minutes (for no extra fitness gains) is worth to you. IME, when you first make a change to your position, it is usually not going to feel as comfortable as your old position and many athletes then give up on the new position. What I would do instead is make some changes and then ride in that position for a couple of weeks and see how it feels after you log a few hundred km's in that position. Things I would try if I were you: - turtle your head - bringing your elbows together - lowering your front end Get rid of the straw. Maybe the visor, too. Originally posted by marcag Rich, for a test, how much can you very easily Move your saddle forward (in cm) ? Move your pads forward (in cm) ? Move your pads down (in cm) ? Move your pads together (in cm) Just make sure it's really easy to go back to your position after a test. Wow, great advice all. It was finally sort of a nice day. Temperature was nice, but it was very windy. I still got my first outdoor ride of the year in. It wasn't one of our designed workouts, I wanted to do one, but I wasted too much time out there just fooling around watching my powermeter doing all sorts of things =/. I did try to make it count and did 3 x 10 minute repeats at 90%, 103%, and 103% FTP, and I did accumulate 109 TSS in the end. It was way too windy to do any real aerodynamic testing, but I did work on trying to get into a "turtle" position into some of the strong headwinds. I focused on keeping my head low and in front of my shoulders. Marc, Move your saddle forward (in cm) ? 5 cm Move your pads forward (in cm) ? 3 cm Move your pads down (in cm) ? 0 cm (without lowering the bars themselves) Move your pads together (in cm)? 1 cm each So, my understanding is that I want to flatten my torso, but not close my hip angle. So my goal is then, to rotate my body forward by lowering the front a bit, and moving forward a bit. I have never tried to lower my bars, I probably can figure it out, but I may just leave it for a professional. For now, I will probably just move my arms in and see how it feels, and also work on trying to keep my head down as Shane and others suggested. As soon as I get another decent day with no wind, I'll try to test arms in and head down, versus what I've been doing and see what the gains are. Other than that, I'll get through my first race in 6 weeks, and then consider a more drastic change. Dr. Chung, Is the straw really that significant? I just had two thoughts. If I changed to a bottle there, for an average rider, would the shifting out of position to drink significantly cut into the aero benefit of no straw? And also, having the straw right in your face is a great reminder to stay hydrated, so if it is a watt or so only (I have no clue of what the savings would actually be), perhaps that is a reasonable loss to increase the chances of better hydration? And getting rid of the visor is easy, I prefer my sunglasses anyhow! (hopefully they are ok?) It is interesting how the visor is slower, on looks alone it looks faster. Dr Chung may have a number, but yes it is supposed to be significant (nothing like head position) but in your case it's probably the length of the the straw that's the worst. It may be hard to see it when doing tests outside a velodrome or wind tunnel The shape of the straw is the culprit. That cylindrical shape is the worst The two more aero options are a bottle between the arms or the Torhans Aero bottle. Both have tested well in the tunnel. The Torhans has a special shaped straw. On hotter races I use the Torhans. I personally, and this is personal, would take a hydration system with straw because I do drink better and that *for me* is necessary and more important than the few watts. I would not drink as much if from a bottle between the arms. BTW, if you decide to go with a straw, cut it to the length that you have to turtle to get to it. Sunglasses/visors seems to be a specific helmet thing, but the guys on ST are saying glasses more often than visors. |
| 2014-03-23 6:21 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Week 9 Originally posted by ImSore So, my understanding is that I want to flatten my torso, but not close my hip angle. So my goal is then, to rotate my body forward by lowering the front a bit, and moving forward a bit. Yes. That will cause no changes in angles. Here is a picture of that rotation (black = before). Assume all angles are identical between red and black. I drew this by hand. I will find a good article on this Edited by marcag 2014-03-23 6:22 AM (rotate.jpg) Attachments ---------------- rotate.jpg (30KB - 3 downloads) |
| 2014-03-23 6:31 AM in reply to: marcag |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: Week 12 Just one more week until we test again! Hard to believe we're in week 12 and it's fantastic to see all the hard work everyone has done. We'll push this week in preparation for the final testing and hopefully everyone will see continued improvement with this testing cycle. TTers Workout 1 – VO2max 1 Workout 2 – Threshold 1 Workout 3 – VO2max 2 All Rounders Workout 1 – Threshold 1 Workout 2 – VO2max 1 Workout 3 – Threshold 2 or Sweet Spot Sprinters Workout 1 – Threshold 1 Workout 2 – Threshold 2 Workout 3 – Sweet Spot Long Course Race In The Near Future Workout 1 – Threshold 1 Workout 2 – Sweet Spot Workout 3 – Long Ride Workout 4 (optional) – Threshold 2 VO2max 1 – 1:15:00 10:00 spin build to 65% of FTP 5x10s all out, 50s spin 60% FTP 5:00 spin 60% FTP 5x5:00>108% FTP (hard), 3:00 60% FTP 5:00 spin 60% FTP 5:00 at 99% FTP 5:00 spin <60% FTP VO2max 2 – 1:05:00 10:00 spin build to 65% of FTP 5:00 at FTP 5:00 spin 60% FTP 5x3:00 at 112% (hard) FTP, 2:00 60% FTP 5:00 at <60% FTP 10:00 at 99% FTP 5:00 at <60% FTP Threshold 1 – 1:10:00 10:00 spin build to 65% of FTP 5x30s >105% FTP, 30s 60% FTP 5:00 60% FTP 2x20:00 at 99% FTP, 5:00 60% FTP 5:00 60% FTP Threshold 2 – 1:10:00 10:00 spin build to 65% of FTP 5:00 at 102% FTP 5:00 60% FTP 5x5:00 at FTP, 1:00 60% FTP 5:00 60% FTP 10:00 at 98% FTP 5:00 60% FTP Sweet Spot – 1:45:00 10:00 spin build to 65% of FTP 5x15s all out, 45s easy 5:00 60% FTP 4x15:00 at 90% FTP, 2:30 at 60% FTP 10:00 at FTP 5:00 <60% FTP Long Ride – 3:30:00 10:00 spin build to 65% of FTP 5x30s hard, 30s 60% FTP 5:00 65% FTP 45:00 at 70% FTP 45:00 at 75% FTP 45:00 at 80% FTP 30:00 at 85% FTP 15:00 at 90% FTP 10:00 60% FTP |
| 2014-03-23 6:41 AM in reply to: ImSore |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Week 9 Originally posted by ImSore Is the straw really that significant? I just had two thoughts. If I changed to a bottle there, for an average rider, would the shifting out of position to drink significantly cut into the aero benefit of no straw? And also, having the straw right in your face is a great reminder to stay hydrated, so if it is a watt or so only (I have no clue of what the savings would actually be), perhaps that is a reasonable loss to increase the chances of better hydration? For the hydration, if you look at the pictures that I posted, there is a bottle of water between my arms. As for the drinking, on most courses, there will be a point that an athlete is going to sit up so if you need to sit up to grab the bottle, you can try to do it when it has the least impact such as an uphill. Also, with practice, it is pretty easy to stay aero, use one warm to grab the bottle, drink and replace. Something to think about in terms of drag due to shapes:  Shane |
| 2014-03-23 6:49 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Week 12 Originally posted by gsmacleod Just one more week until we test again! Hard to believe we're in week 12 and it's fantastic to see all the hard work everyone has done. We'll push this week in preparation for the final testing and hopefully everyone will see continued improvement with this testing cycle. TTers Workout 1 – VO2max 1 Workout 2 – Threshold 1 Workout 3 – VO2max 2 All Rounders Workout 1 – Threshold 1 Workout 2 – VO2max 1 Workout 3 – Threshold 2 or Sweet Spot Sprinters Workout 1 – Threshold 1 Workout 2 – Threshold 2 Workout 3 – Sweet Spot Long Course Race In The Near Future Workout 1 – Threshold 1 Workout 2 – Sweet Spot Workout 3 – Long Ride Workout 4 (optional) – Threshold 2 VO2max 1 – 1:15:00 10:00 spin build to 65% of FTP 5x10s all out, 50s spin 60% FTP 5:00 spin 60% FTP 5x5:00>108% FTP (hard), 3:00 60% FTP 5:00 spin 60% FTP 5:00 at 99% FTP 5:00 spin <60% FTP VO2max 2 – 1:05:00 10:00 spin build to 65% of FTP 5:00 at FTP 5:00 spin 60% FTP 5x3:00 at 112% (hard) FTP, 2:00 60% FTP 5:00 at <60% FTP 10:00 at 99% FTP 5:00 at <60% FTP Threshold 1 – 1:10:00 10:00 spin build to 65% of FTP 5x30s >105% FTP, 30s 60% FTP 5:00 60% FTP 2x20:00 at 99% FTP, 5:00 60% FTP 5:00 60% FTP Threshold 2 – 1:10:00 10:00 spin build to 65% of FTP 5:00 at 102% FTP 5:00 60% FTP 5x5:00 at FTP, 1:00 60% FTP 5:00 60% FTP 10:00 at 98% FTP 5:00 60% FTP Sweet Spot – 1:45:00 10:00 spin build to 65% of FTP 5x15s all out, 45s easy 5:00 60% FTP 4x15:00 at 90% FTP, 2:30 at 60% FTP 10:00 at FTP 5:00 <60% FTP Long Ride – 3:30:00 10:00 spin build to 65% of FTP 5x30s hard, 30s 60% FTP 5:00 65% FTP 45:00 at 70% FTP 45:00 at 75% FTP 45:00 at 80% FTP 30:00 at 85% FTP 15:00 at 90% FTP 10:00 60% FTP Attachments ---------------- BTWK12-VO2-2.mrc (0KB - 12 downloads) BTWK12-THR-2.mrc (0KB - 13 downloads) BTWK12-VO2-1.mrc (0KB - 11 downloads) BTWK12-THR-1.mrc (0KB - 12 downloads) BTWK12-SWE-1.mrc (0KB - 11 downloads) |
| 2014-03-23 7:30 AM in reply to: 0 |
Master 2151 Johns Creek, Georgia | Subject: RE: Week 12 Well I'm behind 6 or 7 weeks from my late start, and another week behind since starting....sigh My 20 week EN IM plan started this past week, which was interesting. I was cleared to swim, but not for an hour like the plan called for. I did a short 20 minute slow swim for my debut back into the water, then 1500 meters yesterday. Both went ok, but WOW have I lost a lot of upper body strength. Lots of work to do over the next 19 weeks if I stand a chance of swimming 2.4 miles. Yesterday I rode outside, first outdoor ride since last year. And it was fabulous!!! I didn't follow any specific plan, just rode. I was concerned about my shoulder holding up and riding aero since the few minutes I tried on the trainer felt uncomfortable. But it was not too bad yesterday, until we hit the 2+ hour mark. Today my neck is a little sore lol. We did a 43ish mile loop that I will ride often for IM training. Only one loop yesterday, but I'll double up and add on for my longest rides. Duration was 2:47, Avg power 147, NP 182, TSS 192, VI 1.243 (still not sure what that is), elevation gain 2983. And where do I find my PMC in GC? Nevermind, found it. Edited by karen26.2 2014-03-23 7:52 AM |
| 2014-03-23 9:12 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Week 9 Test for the group Sorry for the poor image quality What are the differences between these two pictures ? How many watts do you think it saves/loses ?  |
| 2014-03-23 12:49 PM in reply to: 0 |
| 1053 | Subject: RE: Week 9 Originally posted by marcag Test for the group Sorry for the poor image quality What are the differences between these two pictures ? How many watts do you think it saves/loses ? Head up in picture on the left, and down in picture on the right. It looks like the arms are pushed forward too, judging by the angle of the upper to lower arm, and position of the wrist watch relative to the bars. I am guessing moving the arms forward helps get the head down? My guess is 20 watts. (Edit: gained going from position on left to position on right, if it wasn't obvious) Edited by ImSore 2014-03-23 12:51 PM |
| 2014-03-23 1:10 PM in reply to: ImSore |
Master 2151 Johns Creek, Georgia | Subject: RE: Week 9 Head looks in better position in photo on right )but I'm sure I look more like photo on the left). Other than the head, I honestly think the positioning looks better on the left, he's more forward, his arms look more comfortable. He's more tucked on the right, and clearly more aerodynamic, but does not look comfortable IMO. But assuming that the right is the better position I will guess a 15 watt savings with his head down. |
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| Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED Pages: 1 ... 72 73 74 75 | ||
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