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Everyone's a Winner (Page 7)
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 2009-08-26 10:31 AM in reply to: #2366214 |
Expert  838    West Palm Beach, FL |  Subject: RE: Everyone's a WinnerDaremo - 2009-08-24 10:24 AM>Also, that "finish" group often grown into the competitive group. Not the one-and-doners of course. But the people who learn to enjoy the sport and want to improve their times every time out and train as such. The "finish" people quite often turn into the podium finishers a few years down the road. This. Case in point, I'm exactly 12 months in to my triathlon "career" coming from a non-endurance sports background. I've got an HIM in November. Six months ago I wouldn't have planned on hitting this distance so quickly, but I have a couple buddies who are doing the race so I'm doing the work to finish the distance to the best of my newbie abilities. My plan is to "finish" this race and by saying that I expect to stay well within my comfort zone so I don't have a horrible time or DNF because I blew up, got hurt, screwed up my nutrition, etc. It's my first shot at this distance so I wanna see what the physiological challenges of the race are and use it as a learning experience. Now assuming I have a good time, as I expect I will, I'm gonna be be better prepared the next time, and the next and the next so I think I'd transition from finishing the distance to racing the distance as time goes on. |
| 2009-08-26 10:41 AM in reply to: #2369419 |
Champion 5376 PA | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner trishie - 2009-08-25 12:58 PM How does anyone KNOW if someone else is racing during a tri (versus "just finishing") ? Good point! It's like when the light turns green and you are sitting next to a Honda. You just can't tell if he is racing or not. |
| 2009-08-26 11:13 AM in reply to: #2369419 |
Master 1404 Saratoga Springs, Utah | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner trishie - 2009-08-25 10:58 AM How does anyone KNOW if someone else is racing during a tri (versus "just finishing") ? I would say with some people you could tell if they were racing vs finishing. Breathing like a freight train, try and pass them and they pick up the pace, seem to be very focused. Yeah, I would say they are racing. Versus joking around during the race, etc. There are signs. |
| 2009-08-26 11:21 AM in reply to: #2371749 |
Alpharetta, Georgia Bronze member | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner gerald12 - 2009-08-26 11:13 AM trishie - 2009-08-25 10:58 AM How does anyone KNOW if someone else is racing during a tri (versus "just finishing") ? I would say with some people you could tell if they were racing vs finishing. Breathing like a freight train, try and pass them and they pick up the pace, seem to be very focused. Yeah, I would say they are racing. Versus joking around during the race, etc. There are signs. Right. Becuase we all know you can't have fun and RACE at the same time. 
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| 2009-08-26 11:24 AM in reply to: #2365928 |
Champion 5376 PA | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner If I finish MOP I'll declare that I was racing. If I finish DFL I will declare my intent to just finish to win a bet. Humility is sooo last year. |
| 2009-08-26 11:29 AM in reply to: #2371778 |
Master 1404 Saratoga Springs, Utah | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner lisac957 - 2009-08-26 10:21 AM gerald12 - 2009-08-26 11:13 AM trishie - 2009-08-25 10:58 AM How does anyone KNOW if someone else is racing during a tri (versus "just finishing") ? I would say with some people you could tell if they were racing vs finishing. Breathing like a freight train, try and pass them and they pick up the pace, seem to be very focused. Yeah, I would say they are racing. Versus joking around during the race, etc. There are signs. Right. Becuase we all know you can't have fun and RACE at the same time. Oh, brother, do not know why I even bother sometimes. Do I need to highlight some people?
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| 2009-08-26 12:41 PM in reply to: #2371778 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner lisac957 - 2009-08-26 12:21 PM gerald12 - 2009-08-26 11:13 AM trishie - 2009-08-25 10:58 AM How does anyone KNOW if someone else is racing during a tri (versus "just finishing") ? I would say with some people you could tell if they were racing vs finishing. Breathing like a freight train, try and pass them and they pick up the pace, seem to be very focused. Yeah, I would say they are racing. Versus joking around during the race, etc. There are signs. Right. Becuase we all know you can't have fun and RACE at the same time.
Who said anything about having fun? Joking around may connote fun but working your azz off, breathing like a freight train, or being very focused can be fun too. |
| 2009-08-26 1:10 PM in reply to: #2365928 |
| 40 | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner Admittedly, I am a horrible "Triathlete"...b/w this summer and last, I have completed 8 or so Sprints and recently completed my first Olympic (3:15). I don't participate in these events to win (I know that's out of the question), but I also don't expect anyone to announce me as a "winner". Edited by SimilakChild 2009-08-26 1:24 PM |
| 2009-08-26 1:32 PM in reply to: #2365928 |
Master 1853 syracuse | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner some poeple are reading his post and applying it to their individual situation and I dont think that is his intent. |
| 2009-08-26 2:00 PM in reply to: #2372177 |
Extreme Veteran 357 Ft. Myers, Florida | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner cusetri - 2009-08-26 2:32 PM but I think there is something wrong when AS A CLASS triathletes will train for 15 hours to finish MOP/BOP at IM but won't train that much to place/win in a sprint. Why? Thats the question Joe wants answered. This is an easy answer for me LONGEVITY. I love to train and would feel totally lost in my life if I could not. Training long and slow is much easier on my body then training with more intensity. I could AG podium at the shorter distances in many of the local, maybe regional, races if I trained that way. But in a nutshell, the podium isn't worth an injury. And MY body tends towards injury with increased intensity. I love the long slow endorphins and want to experience them for many years to come. |
| 2009-08-26 2:13 PM in reply to: #2372251 |
Master 1853 syracuse | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner jkholden - 2009-08-26 3:00 PM cusetri - 2009-08-26 2:32 PM but I think there is something wrong when AS A CLASS triathletes will train for 15 hours to finish MOP/BOP at IM but won't train that much to place/win in a sprint. Why? Thats the question Joe wants answered. This is an easy answer for me LONGEVITY. I love to train and would feel totally lost in my life if I could not. Training long and slow is much easier on my body then training with more intensity. I could AG podium at the shorter distances in many of the local, maybe regional, races if I trained that way. But in a nutshell, the podium isn't worth an injury. And MY body tends towards injury with increased intensity. I love the long slow endorphins and want to experience them for many years to come. so let me get this straight, training 15 hours for sprints will result in less longevity than training 15 hours for IMs? Alrighty than...... hes talking about the guys/gals who train 15+ hours per week for IMs and finish MOP.... Let me try and keep this simple. Bob is doing an IM and training 15 hours per week, 4 bikes, 3 swims and 3 runs. nothing over tempo pace. bob is a male 30-34 and finishes in 12 hours. solid MOP. Instead of Bob doing an IM, bob keeps his training EXACTLY the same. bob does 3 sprints and places in his AG in every single one and top 10 overall. solid FOP. What joe wants to know is why is Bob #1 held in higher regard and why is Bob #1 more common in the sport today? you can dance around the question all day, but the only answer is fnishing an IM is held in higher regard than winning a sprint or olympic. someon here are talking about how joe thinks "just finishing" is a bad goal. hes not saying that. He's talking about when THE EXACT SAME PERSON with the EXACT SAME ABILITIES would rather finish MOP in an IM than FOP, or my gosh, maybe even win OA, in a sprint or olympic, with the exact same training they're already doing. why?!?!? the funny part about my post is I am included in this as well....I signed up for a full before I wanted to. I dont regret it, and look forward to it. Doesnt mean I'm going to be blind to the excellent point he brought up. Edited by cusetri 2009-08-26 2:19 PM |
| 2009-08-26 2:16 PM in reply to: #2372251 |
Master 1853 syracuse | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner jkholden - 2009-08-26 3:00 PM cusetri - 2009-08-26 2:32 PM but I think there is something wrong when AS A CLASS triathletes will train for 15 hours to finish MOP/BOP at IM but won't train that much to place/win in a sprint. Why? Thats the question Joe wants answered. This is an easy answer for me LONGEVITY. I love to train and would feel totally lost in my life if I could not. Training long and slow is much easier on my body then training with more intensity. I could AG podium at the shorter distances in many of the local, maybe regional, races if I trained that way. But in a nutshell, the podium isn't worth an injury. And MY body tends towards injury with increased intensity. I love the long slow endorphins and want to experience them for many years to come. ps, 3 halfs, 2 of which are back to back, a trail marathon and 2 fulls on your 2009 race calender is not exactly the recipe for longevity you seek, but whatever. |
| 2009-08-26 2:24 PM in reply to: #2372279 |
Champion 8540 the colony texas | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner cusetri - 2009-08-26 2:13 PM jkholden - 2009-08-26 3:00 PM cusetri - 2009-08-26 2:32 PM but I think there is something wrong when AS A CLASS triathletes will train for 15 hours to finish MOP/BOP at IM but won't train that much to place/win in a sprint. Why? Thats the question Joe wants answered. This is an easy answer for me LONGEVITY. I love to train and would feel totally lost in my life if I could not. Training long and slow is much easier on my body then training with more intensity. I could AG podium at the shorter distances in many of the local, maybe regional, races if I trained that way. But in a nutshell, the podium isn't worth an injury. And MY body tends towards injury with increased intensity. I love the long slow endorphins and want to experience them for many years to come. so let me get this straight, training 15 hours for sprints will result in less longevity than training 15 hours for IMs? Alrighty than...... hes talking about the guys/gals who train 15+ hours per week for IMs and finish MOP.... Let me try and keep this simple. Bob is doing an IM and training 15 hours per week, 4 bikes, 3 swims and 3 runs. nothing over tempo pace. bob is a male 30-34 and finishes in 12 hours. solid MOP. Instead of Bob doing an IM, bob keeps his training EXACTLY the same. bob does 3 sprints and places in his AG in every single one and top 10 overall. solid FOP. What joe wants to know is why is Bob #1 held in higher regard and why is Bob #1 more common in the sport today? you can dance around the question all day, but the only answer is fnishing an IM is held in higher regard than winning a sprint or olympic. someon here are talking about how joe thinks "just finishing" is a bad goal. hes not saying that. He's talking about when THE EXACT SAME PERSON with the EXACT SAME ABILITIES would rather finish MOP in an IM than FOP, or my gosh, maybe even win OA, in a sprint or olympic, with the exact same training they're already doing. why?!?!? Who's Bob?? maybe it's because there can be only one winner of a race or AG. Bob (joe the plumbers 2nd cousin on his mothers side) can train for 15 hours and complete an event that gets lots of media attention, has name recognition, brag about it, has enough clout that most people think every tri is an iron distance, by finishing in 12-hrs.. or can finish top 5-10 in a shorter race depending on who shows up that day I do understand the point you are trying to make, |
| 2009-08-26 2:27 PM in reply to: #2372279 |
Elite 4048 Gilbert, Az. | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner cusetri - 2009-08-26 12:13 PM He's talking about when THE EXACT SAME PERSON with the EXACT SAME ABILITIES would rather finish MOP in an IM than FOP, or my gosh, maybe even win OA, in a sprint or olympic, with the exact same training they're already doing. why?!?!? Either he really enjoys racing the IM more, or he is more attached to the extrinsic motiviation of the accolades rather than the intrinsic motivation of winning. John |
| 2009-08-26 2:39 PM in reply to: #2372315 |
Master 1853 syracuse | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner tkd.teacher - 2009-08-26 3:27 PM cusetri - 2009-08-26 12:13 PM He's talking about when THE EXACT SAME PERSON with the EXACT SAME ABILITIES would rather finish MOP in an IM than FOP, or my gosh, maybe even win OA, in a sprint or olympic, with the exact same training they're already doing. why?!?!? Either he really enjoys racing the IM more, or he is more attached to the extrinsic motiviation of the accolades rather than the intrinsic motivation of winning. John John, you qualifed for Nationals back when it was hard to do. I'm surprised you dont see Friel's point more clearly. Isn't there a shift from short/mid stuff to long course stuff? and isnt this driven by the overall notion that longer is better? Maybe I'm not seeing this right.... |
| 2009-08-26 2:50 PM in reply to: #2365928 |
| Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner This argument makes no sense (to me) I finished almost exactly MOP at IMAZ. Are you telling me I coulda won my age group (not clydes), or even overall, at the Hermosa Beach Sprint the same month????? Answer: nope, not in a million years could I win short course on my MOP IM training |
| 2009-08-26 2:51 PM in reply to: #2372279 |
| Alpharetta, Georgia Bronze member | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner cusetri - 2009-08-26 2:13 PM He's talking about when THE EXACT SAME PERSON with the EXACT SAME ABILITIES would rather finish MOP in an IM than FOP, or my gosh, maybe even win OA, in a sprint or olympic, with the exact same training they're already doing. why?!?!? Why is he (and everyone here for that matter) so concerned about everyone else's goals and motivations? They are sooooo individual, it's going to be near-impossible for one person to completely understand the next persons. You do what you want, I do what I want. Why does it have to be more complicated than that? When did it become a requirement to make everyone else understand my motivations? |
| 2009-08-26 3:01 PM in reply to: #2372378 |
Master 1853 syracuse | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner lisac957 - 2009-08-26 3:51 PM cusetri - 2009-08-26 2:13 PM He's talking about when THE EXACT SAME PERSON with the EXACT SAME ABILITIES would rather finish MOP in an IM than FOP, or my gosh, maybe even win OA, in a sprint or olympic, with the exact same training they're already doing. why?!?!? Why is he (and everyone here for that matter) so concerned about everyone else's goals and motivations? They are sooooo individual, it's going to be near-impossible for one person to completely understand the next persons. You do what you want, I do what I want. Why does it have to be more complicated than that? When did it become a requirement to make everyone else understand my motivations? I didnt read anywhere in his blog where he cared about peoples goals. not once. He cares why more credibility is given to people who go 12+ in an IM than to someone who wins/places in AG in a sprint or 5 k and its effect on the sport. |
| 2009-08-26 3:06 PM in reply to: #2372376 |
Master 1853 syracuse | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner ChrisM - 2009-08-26 3:50 PM This argument makes no sense (to me) I finished almost exactly MOP at IMAZ. Are you telling me I coulda won my age group (not clydes), or even overall, at the Hermosa Beach Sprint the same month????? Answer: nope, not in a million years could I win short course on my MOP IM training If you put a map in front of me, I couldnt find Hermosa Beach, so I defintely didnt tell you that. I'm not sure how 15 hour weeks resulting in better relative results in a sprint vs. an IM makes no sense to you. you dont have to agree with it, but not sure how it makes no sense. |
| 2009-08-26 3:16 PM in reply to: #2372411 |
| Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner cusetri - 2009-08-26 1:06 PM ChrisM - 2009-08-26 3:50 PM This argument makes no sense (to me) I finished almost exactly MOP at IMAZ. Are you telling me I coulda won my age group (not clydes), or even overall, at the Hermosa Beach Sprint the same month????? Answer: nope, not in a million years could I win short course on my MOP IM training If you put a map in front of me, I couldnt find Hermosa Beach, so I defintely didnt tell you that. I'm not sure how 15 hour weeks resulting in better relative results in a sprint vs. an IM makes no sense to you. you dont have to agree with it, but not sure how it makes no sense. Insert the name of any sprint or Oly, doesn't matter. My impression is that you are saying, all else being equal, if you train "X " hours and place MOP for an IM (as I did), those same "X" hours should allow me to win my AG and/or outright. Maybe that's not your position. Sure, OK, I might be FOP on the swim (won't win it). But, even with 15 hours a week training (or 10-15, whatever I was doing), I know from race experience (Oly leading up to IM) I could go approx 21 mph on the bike and 8:30 per mile. These numbers are "fast" for me. These numbers will not win a sprint or Oly. But if that ain't your point... then never mind  |
| 2009-08-26 3:31 PM in reply to: #2372285 |
Extreme Veteran 357 Ft. Myers, Florida | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner cusetri - 2009-08-26 3:16 PM jkholden - 2009-08-26 3:00 PM cusetri - 2009-08-26 2:32 PM but I think there is something wrong when AS A CLASS triathletes will train for 15 hours to finish MOP/BOP at IM but won't train that much to place/win in a sprint. Why? Thats the question Joe wants answered. This is an easy answer for me LONGEVITY. I love to train and would feel totally lost in my life if I could not. Training long and slow is much easier on my body then training with more intensity. I could AG podium at the shorter distances in many of the local, maybe regional, races if I trained that way. But in a nutshell, the podium isn't worth an injury. And MY body tends towards injury with increased intensity. I love the long slow endorphins and want to experience them for many years to come. ps, 3 halfs, 2 of which are back to back, a trail marathon and 2 fulls on your 2009 race calender is not exactly the recipe for longevity you seek, but whatever. You just couldn't resist that could you? That is exactly why I added the comment that MY body tends towards injury with increased intensity, so someone wouldn't jump in here and tell me that if I trained correctly I could race short and hard without injury. Obviuosly you know just how much volume is too much volume for me. Just saying. |
| 2009-08-26 3:31 PM in reply to: #2372432 |
Master 1853 syracuse | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner ChrisM - 2009-08-26 4:16 PM cusetri - 2009-08-26 1:06 PM ChrisM - 2009-08-26 3:50 PM This argument makes no sense (to me) I finished almost exactly MOP at IMAZ. Are you telling me I coulda won my age group (not clydes), or even overall, at the Hermosa Beach Sprint the same month????? Answer: nope, not in a million years could I win short course on my MOP IM training If you put a map in front of me, I couldnt find Hermosa Beach, so I defintely didnt tell you that. I'm not sure how 15 hour weeks resulting in better relative results in a sprint vs. an IM makes no sense to you. you dont have to agree with it, but not sure how it makes no sense. Insert the name of any sprint or Oly, doesn't matter. My impression is that you are saying, all else being equal, if you train "X " hours and place MOP for an IM (as I did), those same "X" hours should allow me to win my AG and/or outright. Maybe that's not your position. Sure, OK, I might be FOP on the swim (won't win it). But, even with 15 hours a week training (or 10-15, whatever I was doing), I know from race experience (Oly leading up to IM) I could go approx 21 mph on the bike and 8:30 per mile. These numbers are "fast" for me. These numbers will not win a sprint or Oly. ok chris. show my a rule with no exceptions. A friend of mine won her AG at the Boilermaker 5k, which also has The Boilermaker, the largest 15k in the country. Some idiot (a friend no less) walks up to her and says, "but you didnt do the real race." what Friel talks about in the post is pretty dead on. I jumped to conclusions saying anyone who devoted as much time to shorter stuff would place. Clearly that is false. |
| 2009-08-26 3:31 PM in reply to: #2365928 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner Chris, I believe cuse is saying that if you take an athlete who trains 15 hours for an IM and he does "Y" MOP time versus taking that same athlete and training who perhaps does smaller/shorter races and places in a few of them that the person will be "given" more respect for their IM time even though it was MOP than the placings they got in the shorter races. I don't believe cuse is saying that if you can be solid MOP in an IM that you would then be able to place in shorter races. He is simply giving an example of if someone was MOP in longer races and FOP in shorter ones, their MOP longer races are perhaps seen as better achievements. At least that's how I'm reading it. |
| 2009-08-26 3:32 PM in reply to: #2372471 |
Master 1853 syracuse | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner Daremo - 2009-08-26 4:31 PM Chris, I believe cuse is saying that if you take an athlete who trains 15 hours for an IM and he does "Y" MOP time versus taking that same athlete and training who perhaps does smaller/shorter races and places in a few of them that the person will be "given" more respect for their IM time even though it was MOP than the placings they got in the shorter races. I don't believe cuse is saying that if you can be solid MOP in an IM that you would then be able to place in shorter races. He is simply giving an example of if someone was MOP in longer races and FOP in shorter ones, their MOP longer races are perhaps seen as better achievements. At least that's how I'm reading it. exactly...thanks!  |
| 2009-08-26 3:33 PM in reply to: #2372401 |
Master 1404 Saratoga Springs, Utah | Subject: RE: Everyone's a Winner cusetri - 2009-08-26 2:01 PM lisac957 - 2009-08-26 3:51 PM cusetri - 2009-08-26 2:13 PM He's talking about when THE EXACT SAME PERSON with the EXACT SAME ABILITIES would rather finish MOP in an IM than FOP, or my gosh, maybe even win OA, in a sprint or olympic, with the exact same training they're already doing. why?!?!? Why is he (and everyone here for that matter) so concerned about everyone else's goals and motivations? They are sooooo individual, it's going to be near-impossible for one person to completely understand the next persons. You do what you want, I do what I want. Why does it have to be more complicated than that? When did it become a requirement to make everyone else understand my motivations? I didnt read anywhere in his blog where he cared about peoples goals. not once. He cares why more credibility is given to people who go 12+ in an IM than to someone who wins/places in AG in a sprint or 5 k and its effect on the sport. I think the general American public holds it in higher reguard. They find it more amazing to cover long distances, no matter the pace, than to go very fast for a short distance. Cause they can relate to a shorter distance so it has less meaning. I could go out and win an olympic race stomping the heck out of the field and 2 weeks later do an ironman and finish middle of the pack and people are more interested in the IM race. My coworkers where far more interested when I did an IM than when I do sprints or olympic races. Effect on the sport? IMO, more people are drawn to doing an IM because of the attention it gets. The media has helped perpetuate this. Not saying it is bad and the above is just my opinion. |
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