Power Mentor Group with Shane &amp; Marc - Closed. (Page 72)

2014-05-06 7:52 AM

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Thanks Kim

You really haven't been lucky on the injury front. I hope things are getting somewhat to normal. The season is still young

Rich, wow, 300 FTP. That is some serious power. You are going to kill your IMMT. You are very close to that 10h30 goal. Very very close if not already there. 300FTP at 68% = 204w. At 78kg that is 2.61w/kg, which is around a 5h30 bike split at IMMT. A 3h45 marathon and 1h20 swim and you are very very close to 10h30. And I'm sure you can beat any of those numbers.

Ron, excellent first tri. IF=92% and being able to run well is great knowledge. you can experiment, slowly bring it up and find that perfect balance of bike effort and run.

Edited by marcag 2014-05-06 7:53 AM

cdkayak

2014-05-06 9:20 AM

in reply to: marcag

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441

Maine

Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Just an update from this past weekends training.

Solid 4:00 ride followed by an hour run. Had an IF of .68 for the ride, a little below what I was targeting(.71-.72) but that was also the first ride after increasing my FTP. The run after the ride felt really good, negative split and still had plenty in the tank. Working on dialing in my nutrition for the long rides and runs now.

Thanks again for all the info everyone has shared, this group has been a great resource. Marc, donated through the link you provided.

2014-05-06 11:56 AM

in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by cdkayak Scott - Nice job on the increase! Here is what I had regarding the charity from one of Marc's earlier posts.

Originally posted by marcag We are going to ask members, IF THEY WISH, to make a donation to the WBR: World Bike Relief. http://www.worldbicyclerelief.org. I will provide more details on this a little later on.

Yes yes yes. I am sorry I delayed so long giving details. I was waiting for one of their "campaigns" to make it easy. Here it is :-) http://peopleforbikes.worldbicyclerelief.org/?utm_medium=emIt starts today for 30 days. Thanks for reminding me !!

Done. Thanks again Marc and Shane for hosting such a helpful group.

For the record, I'm not sure if I ever let you guys know that I DID donate long ago, but did want you to know...and thanks again Marc and Shane.

I did a 56 mile bike ride in prep for Quassy, ~4.5-5 K elevation (depending on who you talk to and whose device you believe) and held an IF of ~0.90 (~200NP) with my new FTP (~218), followed by a 10 mile run. Probably not the wisest thing doing my longest run and longest bike of the year together, with the bike simulating race pace...but I've done dumber things, and I am time crunched due to family/work issues. Very cool to see my highest TSS of 300.

I would love to hear other peoples 1/2IM bike IF numbers and TSS scores...if anyone wants to share...

cdkayak

2014-05-06 12:06 PM

in reply to: dtoce

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441

Maine

Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by dtoce

...

I did a 56 mile bike ride in prep for Quassy, ~4.5-5 K elevation (depending on who you talk to and whose device you believe) and held an IF of ~0.90 (~200NP) with my new FTP (~218), followed by a 10 mile run. Probably not the wisest thing doing my longest run and longest bike of the year together, with the bike simulating race pace...but I've done dumber things, and I am time crunched due to family/work issues. Very cool to see my highest TSS of 300.

I would love to hear other peoples 1/2IM bike IF numbers and TSS scores...if anyone wants to share...

Nice workout. How did the run feel after that ride?

I don't have any numbers for for my HIM training last summer, pre power meter, but the plan I was following did call for a big brick about 2 weeks before the race, 50 mile bike and 8 mile run. Neither were my longest individual sessions but it was the longest combined. It really helps mentally when you have a workout like that and it goes well.

2014-05-06 12:36 PM

in reply to: dtoce

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Houston, Texas

Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by dtoce For the record, I'm not sure if I ever let you guys know that I DID donate long ago, but did want you to know...and thanks again Marc and Shane. I did a 56 mile bike ride in prep for Quassy, ~4.5-5 K elevation (depending on who you talk to and whose device you believe) and held an IF of ~0.90 (~200NP) with my new FTP (~218), followed by a 10 mile run. Probably not the wisest thing doing my longest run and longest bike of the year together, with the bike simulating race pace...but I've done dumber things, and I am time crunched due to family/work issues. Very cool to see my highest TSS of 300. I would love to hear other peoples 1/2IM bike IF numbers and TSS scores...if anyone wants to share...

How did your legs feel on the run? I am almost certain that I could not hold an IF of 0.9 for 56 miles....and am completely certain when I say that I would not run well off an IF of 0.9 for 56 miles!!

I just raced this past weekend on a course with comparable climbing. I was targeting an AP/NP in the 152-155W range (78-80%) but failed to account for the fact that there would be a lot of descending where I wouldn't be able to put any power down. Despite that, I didn't allow myself to hold higher than 160ish W for an extended period of time (i.e. I didn't try to artificially bring my NP back up to my target) and came in at 147W (76%). I had a fantastic run off the bike -- no dark moments, no thoughts of walking, and managed a solid negative split (aided by the fact that the out leg was mostly uphill and the return leg was mostly downhill).

My guess is that if you felt good running off an IF of 0.9 that your FTP is probably low....time to retest (again)?

2014-05-06 12:39 PM

in reply to: marcag

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Houston, Texas

Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by cdkayak Scott - Nice job on the increase! Here is what I had regarding the charity from one of Marc's earlier posts.

Donated! Huge thanks again to Marc and Shane for organizing this group!

2014-05-06 12:51 PM

in reply to: dtoce

Extreme Veteran

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by dtoce

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by cdkayak Scott - Nice job on the increase! Here is what I had regarding the charity from one of Marc's earlier posts.

Done. Thanks again Marc and Shane for hosting such a helpful group.

First of all, thanks for giving to WBR

The number thrown around is 80-85%. But there are variables in there. The most important is how long will you be on the course. If 3h, I would go more for the 80%. If under 2h30, maybe more aggressive.

It also depends on how well your CP is established. Many people over-estimate their CP. Doing 85% of an over estimated CP for 3h is a recipe for a walk. A guy like Rapp does 85% of CP. He is only on the course for 2h15 or less.

It depends on how much you are willing to suffer on the run.

Once you start getting 180 TSS points on the bike, I think you are gambling your run. 80% for 3 hours is 192.

It depends on how much you leave on the swim.

My highest TSS was 194 on the bike and 150 on the run at Muskoka. Those thresholds were pretty accurate at the time. Tremblant was 170 bike , 153 run.

It also depends on how high a VI I get.

200NP = .9 IF with a VI=1.0 is not the same as 200NP = .9 with a VI=1.2. The first is much harder IMO

2014-05-06 12:56 PM

in reply to: 0

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945

South Windsor, CT

Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by ligersandtions

My guess is that if you felt good running off an IF of 0.9 that your FTP is probably low....time to retest (again)?

my legs were a bit heavy, but I kept high cadence and kept my HR low to make sure I could cover the distance, so it wasn't 1/2 IM run pace, as that wasn't the goal

I do realize how much NP will change if you coast a lot on the downhills or if you push too hard on the ups--I had a 30miler where I pushed every hill hard and went easy on the downhills-avPower was around 160 and NP was around 195-the biggest discrepency I've ever had

the closest I can get is when I spin the hills easy and pick it up moderately on the downs, kept the difference to ~8watts

btw-congrats on the killer 1/2IM Nicole-5:35 is fantastic!! What was your bike TSS?

oh, and btw, I just retested my FTP (went from 180>188>200>218 from start Jan to now)
now I just go out and push hard for 5 minutes or 20 minutes once/month and let GC give me my updated numbers
it's always a little disturbing when the 5 minute test goes up and the CP drops a bit, but at least it shows up as a higher AWC (battery)

I don't have any numbers for for my HIM training last summer, pre power meter, but the plan I was following did call for a big brick about 2 weeks before the race, 50 mile bike and 8 mile run. Neither were my longest individual sessions but it was the longest combined. It really helps mentally when you have a workout like that and it goes well.

yeah, all my racing over the past 2 years is pre-PM, so it will be interesting to compare...I do know my HR numbers and I believe in the 'big day' concept to get ready for the long course tri-events.

-----------------------------------------------------------

First of all, thanks for giving to WBR

The number thrown around is 80-85%. But there are variables in there. The most important is how long will you be on the course. If 3h, I would go more for the 80%. If under 2h30, maybe more aggressive.

It also depends on how well your CP is established. Many people over-estimate their CP. Doing 85% of an over estimated CP for 3h is a recipe for a walk. A guy like Rapp does 85% of CP. He is only on the course for 2h15 or less.

It depends on how much you are willing to suffer on the run.

Once you start getting 180 TSS points on the bike, I think you are gambling your run. 80% for 3 hours is 192.

It depends on how much you leave on the swim.

My highest TSS was 194 on the bike and 150 on the run at Muskoka. Those thresholds were pretty accurate at the time. Tremblant was 170 bike , 153 run.

It also depends on how high a VI I get.

200NP = .9 IF with a VI=1.0 is not the same as 200NP = .9 with a VI=1.2. The first is much harder IMO

--------------------------
my ride was 3:33 and my CP is fairly accurate based on very recent tests, but I am new to the PM
I was pretty efficient on this ride and the VI was better but I don't remember what it was
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/493031633

Edited by dtoce 2014-05-06 1:04 PM

2014-05-06 12:56 PM

in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by ligersandtions
came in at 147W (76%).

Great race Nicole. Perfect execution.

Is that AP or NP ?
What was your VI ?

2014-05-06 1:18 PM

in reply to: dtoce

Extreme Veteran

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Dale,

do you know your Max or LT HR ?

2014-05-06 1:42 PM

in reply to: marcag

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945

South Windsor, CT

Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by marcag

Dale,

do you know your Max or LT HR ?

my max HR is about 166 this year during my last ETT and was 166 during a max, hill, power effort on the bike

my 'guesstimated' LT HR this year is 145ish (it was 148 when measured in the lab last year in mid season form)

2014-05-06 2:26 PM

in reply to: dtoce

Extreme Veteran

5722

Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

That is an interesting ride. Most people would completely wiped after that. You spent 20min at 96% of FTP. You probably don't want to do that in your race :-)

I know I could not run after that ride.

Any way to do this ride a little smoother, ie less power spikes and less 0 power. I know it's pretty hilly so that is probably the explanation.

Can you post the tcx file to look at in GC. We can probably zero in on a better target.

2014-05-06 2:32 PM

in reply to: 0

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945

South Windsor, CT

Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by marcag

That is an interesting ride. Most people would completely wiped after that. You spent 20min at 96% of FTP. You probably don't want to do that in your race :-)

I know I could not run after that ride.

Any way to do this ride a little smoother, ie less power spikes and less 0 power. I know it's pretty hilly so that is probably the explanation.

Can you post the tcx file to look at in GC. We can probably zero in on a better target.

sure, I'll do it when I get home from the office

btw, the 10 mile run is the 'next' on the above garmin file...done later in the afternoon when I got home from the group ride and showered etc...
it was 5 hrs of exercise so I was pretty wiped out, but not totally

and I had done a hard 90 minute bike and 4 mile run the day before (with tempo 1/4 miles x 3, wanted 4 but was too tired...)
the bike workout is probably the 'before' workout on the garmin file

not sure that I can avoid the power spikes, I always spin unless I have to stop for traffic and that gets the cadence and power down to 0..those pesky vehicles can take you out quickly

Edited by dtoce 2014-05-06 2:36 PM

2014-05-06 4:09 PM

in reply to: marcag

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1677

Houston, Texas

Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by ligersandtions came in at 147W (76%).

Great race Nicole. Perfect execution. Is that AP or NP ? What was your VI ?

NP: 147W

AP: 142W

VI: 1.03 -- a little higher than I would have liked....my NP and AP were within 2W of each other the entire time until the last couple miles. At that point, I think I was starting to get mentally tired (also had some minor bike issues, which I mention in the RR I'm working on, so that probably contributed to it as well).

I'm quite happy with overall execution of the race (sandbagged the swim by sitting on a girl's feet almost the entire time, kept the bike super easy....lost too many places here, but it is what it is....and then executed my run almost exactly as I'd planned). RR to be up shortly.

2014-05-06 4:18 PM

in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by ligersandtions
VI: 1.03 -- a little higher than I would have liked.

For that course, it's pretty darn good.

ImSore

2014-05-06 4:58 PM

in reply to: marcag

1053

Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

I attached the file from my race. It was a flat course, wind was in the 5 to 10mph range, but mostly around 5 mph. I weighed 175 lb (79.5 kg). I have a Cannondale Slice, with a Flo 60 front, and a wheelcover on the rear, and was using Conti GP4000s tires, I actually had one latex tube, and one butyl (latex is too expensive for a B race). I don't remember what wheel I have the cover on offhand, but its pretty heavy.

Considering the metrics and the bit of info on my setup, is it possible to infer much about my efficiency? I averaged 22.8 mph at 259 AP, does that seem ok?

(Bassman14.png)

Attachments
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Bassman14.png (83KB - 20 downloads)
activity_493243899.tcx (1157KB - 43 downloads)

2014-05-06 6:08 PM

in reply to: 0

Extreme Veteran

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Was the course relatively flat ?

It looks like 3 loops, headwind first half of each, tailwind 2nd half.
Strongest headwind 2nd loop, if that makes sense.

What temperature was it ?

I'll try to do some more analysis

Edited by marcag 2014-05-06 7:09 PM

2014-05-06 6:39 PM

in reply to: 0

Veteran

945

South Windsor, CT

Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by marcag

Can you post the tcx file to look at in GC. We can probably zero in on a better target.

tcx file is 'too large'

I cannot attach it.

Edited by dtoce 2014-05-06 6:51 PM

Attachments
----------------
Garmin-May4-May Day ride; gpx file.gpx (4511KB - 31 downloads)

2014-05-06 6:54 PM

in reply to: dtoce

Extreme Veteran

5722

Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by dtoce

Originally posted by marcag

Can you post the tcx file to look at in GC. We can probably zero in on a better target.

tcx file is 'too large'

I cannot attach it.

Can you make it downloadable at Garmin Connect ?

2014-05-06 7:10 PM

in reply to: marcag

Veteran

945

South Windsor, CT

Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by dtoce

Originally posted by marcag

Can you post the tcx file to look at in GC. We can probably zero in on a better target.

tcx file is 'too large'

I cannot attach it.

Can you make it downloadable at Garmin Connect ?

I just redownloaded it to my computer as a gpx file and tried to upload it and it attached

see above

Attachments
----------------
Garmin-May3-30miles hard; gpx.gpx (1933KB - 43 downloads)

ImSore

2014-05-06 7:31 PM

in reply to: marcag

1053

Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by marcag

Was the course relatively flat ?

It looks like 3 loops, headwind first half of each, tailwind 2nd half.
Strongest headwind 2nd loop, if that makes sense.

What temperature was it ?

I'll try to do some more analysis

Nice how you worked that all out. It's like magic.

Flat course.

Correct about 3 loops, and correct about the wind based on my memory, and even checking weather underground, wind went from 5mph to 10 mph back to 5mph.

Temperature was roughly 65 deg F/ 18 deg C.

2014-05-06 7:40 PM

in reply to: ImSore

Extreme Veteran

5722

Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by ImSore

At first glance it looks like there is room for some aero optimization but with the wind it makes it little harder.
I am seeing a cda of between .30 and .32 but need to look a little more. If this is correct, and to be determined, there is some room for optimization.
I will try to write up what I looked for but the Montreal Canadians are playing the Boston Bruins, so I am a little pre-occupied :-)

What was the road surface like ?

2014-05-06 7:50 PM

in reply to: dtoce

Extreme Veteran

5722

Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by dtoce

Originally posted by marcag

Can you post the tcx file to look at in GC. We can probably zero in on a better target.

tcx file is 'too large'

I cannot attach it.

The May 4th attachment doesn't seem to work.
Can you re-attach ?

The other one does but it's not the long ride

2014-05-06 7:56 PM

in reply to: marcag

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Houston, Texas

Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

St. George 70.3 race report: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=515698&posts=1#M4992614

2014-05-06 8:00 PM

in reply to: ImSore

Veteran

945

South Windsor, CT

Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by ImSore

Rich
Didn't you do lots of vo2max stuff in training with a cadence around 70-75 (and power off the wall compared to us weak guys)?
I find it interesting that your cadence for the race was 91...

but maybe I'm not remembering that correctly

Attachments
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Garmin-May4-May Day ride; gpx file.gpx (4511KB - 36 downloads)