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2013-12-30 4:17 PM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by ratherbeswimming Hm. Maybe distance? But I'm running a PowerTap G3, and my laptop sits on an ironing board in front of my trainer. So, it can't get much closer.
Do you have a speed or cadence sensor separate from your PT ?

Not one that is currently installed on the bike.

In GC, under Tools there seems to be a "Fix power spikes" tool. Does that correct the data ? Do you see drops after the spike ?

I tried it, and it didn't seem to fix anything.

Maybe I should reinstall GC and see if that fixes my issues?




Do you have the latest and greatest ?

Do an uninstall, then re-install. You shouldn't lose any data.


2013-12-30 4:35 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by ratherbeswimming Hm. Maybe distance? But I'm running a PowerTap G3, and my laptop sits on an ironing board in front of my trainer. So, it can't get much closer.
Do you have a speed or cadence sensor separate from your PT ?

Not one that is currently installed on the bike.

In GC, under Tools there seems to be a "Fix power spikes" tool. Does that correct the data ? Do you see drops after the spike ?

I tried it, and it didn't seem to fix anything.

Maybe I should reinstall GC and see if that fixes my issues?

Do you have the latest and greatest ? Do an uninstall, then re-install. You shouldn't lose any data.

I'll try it.

Me and technology aren't getting along lately.

2013-12-30 4:38 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
I'm going to give up my spot and switch to more of a lurker status. Lynne
2013-12-30 5:25 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by ligersandtions - question for you about Golden Cheetah: is there a way to overlay your max 5/20/60/90/120 minute power output on the PMC, or is that something you can only do in Training Peaks?  I'd really like to have that feature, but I haven't been able to figure out if you can do it or not.
For those that don't know what a PMC is, here is a bit of a teaser. We will cover this again, but seeing it now will just make it easier to relate to later A PMC chart shows how much work/fitness we have done over time Here is my PMC for all 3 sports combined over time (3 years in this case). But a PMC is normally maintained per sport, especially for the bike. THe blue line is the equivalent of my fitness. It uses a formula that averages work done in the last 40 or so days. Notice it's at it's lowest during the off-season (now) and highest a few weeks before a race, The red line is short term fatigue. I do a really hard workout/week and it spikes The yellow line is my stress balance. It's basically a measure of how fresh I am. It drops when mty fatigue spikes So the idea is to get the blue line as high as possible, for maximum fitness. In doing so, my short term fatigue is also going to go very high. If i wanted to race at the peak of that fitness, I may not do well because I was so fatigued So the idea is to get a very high blue line, then taper and gain more freshness than I am losing fitness What is interesting about this chart is it shows that over the years, I have raised my training load. The lows (typically) in Dec are still higher year over year. If you notice the dotted lines on the right, those are my projected loads for 2014 so I can hit a peak greater than ever before So what is cool is I can quantify the work I need to do and my power meter will allow me to translate that into watts and hours of training This is a great way to say "this year I want to do 10% more than last year". Or it's a way to say "People that KQ typically put X TSS". Or "if my load is Y, I end up getting sick or injuring myself" All these numbers are derived from power. We will measure your FTP. TSS will be used to calculate the load of a workout based on your FTP and the Power you generated in the workout. This chart is an accumulation of those TSS scores. If this is Chinese, NO PROBLEMO. We will slowly get back into this and it will become more clear as we move forward If you have historic power data, this chart could be built from it.

One question I've had about the blue line/PMC is whether it factors in the improvements from increased base and consistency over a time period longer than 40 days (multiple seasons particularly) or if it is solely derived from the trailing 40 days (or so).

As an example, I "know" I am better runner the season after a strong year of continuous, consistent running/racing.  Physiologically, some of the adaptation of the previous season carries over, even if my training load does not increase (as yours apparently has, overall, the last few seasons - which is clearly a best case/"beast case" scenario).

So, are you (Marc) even more fit than the blue line would suggest, as you've been consistently applying stress season on season?  Does the PMC somehow incorporate historical data in this way, or is it just a mathematical average of the trailing 40 days?

Just wondering (and have been ever since you introduced me to that devilish blue line some months ago!).

Matt

2013-12-30 5:47 PM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Uninstall/Install fixed the power spike issue...

...now what am I doing wrong to execute a workout? 

2013-12-30 6:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by mcmanusclan5

One question I've had about the blue line/PMC is whether it factors in the improvements from increased base and consistency over a time period longer than 40 days (multiple seasons particularly) or if it is solely derived from the trailing 40 days (or so).

As an example, I "know" I am better runner the season after a strong year of continuous, consistent running/racing.  Physiologically, some of the adaptation of the previous season carries over, even if my training load does not increase (as yours apparently has, overall, the last few seasons - which is clearly a best case/"beast case" scenario).

So, are you (Marc) even more fit than the blue line would suggest, as you've been consistently applying stress season on season?  Does the PMC somehow incorporate historical data in this way, or is it just a mathematical average of the trailing 40 days?

Just wondering (and have been ever since you introduced me to that devilish blue line some months ago!).

Matt




The chart only showed training load and would need more data to do some performance analysis/prediction

The blue chart is 100% training load. And is only affected by the last 50 or so days. What you would need to overlay on this chart is performance and then look at historical performance results in relation to training load.

You are at a given performance, you apply a training load and you get a new performance. You apply a training load, you get another performance.

What this allows you to do is look at what types of loads yield best improvements. Also if a big training load causes a step back it may be an indicator of overtraining.

RaceDay Apollo went one step further than this chat with with an algorithm that predicted your performance using load data and frequent test results. Prediction was only as good as the test data you provided, so they suggested you test frequently to see the impact of load on performance.

As an example, I could have a blue line at 0 and a FTP of 200, Work hard and get my blue line up to 150, test and be at 250w. Let it drop back to 0, test and be at 210w. The blue line will not measure my performance but when performance is overlayed with this chart it does provide insight into what type of load yields performance improvements.

Does that make any sense ?

I also use this chart to see how much accumulated load I can sustain. I intentionally ratch it up slowly, probably until I see a point I am no longer improving. This chart does not say it all. For example, I could accumulate lots of training load in zone 1 by doing a ridiculous amount of hours and the chart would say I have great fitness. But if I try to do a 40km TT I will probably fail.

Shane may also use this chart for other purposes.
Other ideas/explanations will certainly pop into my head tonight :-)

Edited by marcag 2013-12-30 6:40 PM


2013-12-30 6:17 PM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Uninstall/Install fixed the power spike issue...

...now what am I doing wrong to execute a workout? 




Do you have the training library directory properly configured in the options ?
What if you load a workout from Ergdb ?
Does your training tab look like the video's ?
2013-12-30 6:35 PM
in reply to: Honey~Badger

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by Honey~Badger

I'm going to give up my spot and switch to more of a lurker status. Lynne


Sorry to hear that


Any lurkers want to join ? PM me if so
2013-12-31 12:04 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
I'm a bit late to the party but would like to jump in with the workouts and learn from the group. I've been a lurker here since day one.

Name: RandyP (Randy)

Story: My 1st event was in 2004. I haven't been consistent over the years as we added to the family and now have 3 kids, ages 6-12. I was sidelined a few years ago with persistent AFIB (surgically resolved) and didn't jump back on the band wagon. I really miss triathlons and am getting back into it.

Current Training: Primarily run focused for early season event; 4-5 times a week. I'd like to incorporate more biking and swimming and ramp up those disciplines. Running is structured but swim/bike is not.

2014 Races: Jan-HM, April-Marathon, May-3day, 300+mile bike ride, July-HIM, Sept-HIM. A few Oly to sprinkle in for race test/prep.

Weightloss: Like many others I have a few to lose, especially after the holidays.

What would make me a good mentee: I really like to learn and with take this information and apply it to my training. I'm interested in the nitty gritty but don't get lost in all the details. I like to have fun and don't take myself too seriously.

I have a Computrainer and have PerfPro setup and running Sufferfest videos. I installed GC and have everything up.
I downloaded Marc's test file (posted 12/28) and verified it works with PerfPro and I can import files into GC. I did a FTP test (PerfPro setup) several weeks ago and am probably ready to test again using the protocol from this group.

I don't have a power meter yet but am planning on getting one in the next 60 or so days. Still researching the options and haven't made a decision of which one yet.
2013-12-31 12:26 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.


Originally posted by tallytomNice run. No doubt the running base and now this will set you up well.
Not too beat up after the M ?


Feeling a lot better today. Calves aren't as tight as they should be. I think I had to run in a different manner due to the brutal downpours, puddles, etc. Been rolling some. Good enough for now.
2013-12-31 1:00 PM
in reply to: RandyP

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by RandyP

I'm a bit late to the party but would like to jump in with the workouts and learn from the group. I've been a lurker here since day one.

Name: RandyP (Randy)

Story: My 1st event was in 2004. I haven't been consistent over the years as we added to the family and now have 3 kids, ages 6-12. I was sidelined a few years ago with persistent AFIB (surgically resolved) and didn't jump back on the band wagon. I really miss triathlons and am getting back into it.

Current Training: Primarily run focused for early season event; 4-5 times a week. I'd like to incorporate more biking and swimming and ramp up those disciplines. Running is structured but swim/bike is not.

2014 Races: Jan-HM, April-Marathon, May-3day, 300+mile bike ride, July-HIM, Sept-HIM. A few Oly to sprinkle in for race test/prep.

Weightloss: Like many others I have a few to lose, especially after the holidays.

What would make me a good mentee: I really like to learn and with take this information and apply it to my training. I'm interested in the nitty gritty but don't get lost in all the details. I like to have fun and don't take myself too seriously.

I have a Computrainer and have PerfPro setup and running Sufferfest videos. I installed GC and have everything up.
I downloaded Marc's test file (posted 12/28) and verified it works with PerfPro and I can import files into GC. I did a FTP test (PerfPro setup) several weeks ago and am probably ready to test again using the protocol from this group.

I don't have a power meter yet but am planning on getting one in the next 60 or so days. Still researching the options and haven't made a decision of which one yet.



Welcome Randy

With the computrainer you are certainly well equipped and can take the time to pick the right powermeter for you. Certainly lots of options out there. Can be pretty touch to decide.


2013-12-31 4:37 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Uninstall/Install fixed the power spike issue...

...now what am I doing wrong to execute a workout? 

Do you have the training library directory properly configured in the options ? What if you load a workout from Ergdb ? Does your training tab look like the video's ?

Ok - I figured it out. I verified the directory, deleted the file you PMed me about, and now, all of the ones loaded from Ergdb work - and so do the ones I created! Yay! Thanks!

Electronics are not my friend lately - did my highest ever suffer score ride on Strava, and my power meter never synced to my Joule. Sigh. 

My legs are REALLY tired, but I'm excited to use GC to follow my next workout!!

2013-12-31 6:09 PM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Ok...I have my powermeter installed on my bike and did not lose any more of the flesh on my digits. I apologize if this has been asked. What data fields do you find my useful for training with power indoor on the trainer? Currently I'm thinking of my main screen having (garmin 910 - max 4 data fields per screen, 4 screens you can scroll through):

3s power
Time - Lap
Cadence
% FTP

Love to hear any ideas on those who have trained with power in the past. I'm a big believer in not reinventing the wheel.
2013-12-31 6:37 PM
in reply to: trisuppo

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by trisuppo

Ok...I have my powermeter installed on my bike and did not lose any more of the flesh on my digits. I apologize if this has been asked. What data fields do you find my useful for training with power indoor on the trainer? Currently I'm thinking of my main screen having (garmin 910 - max 4 data fields per screen, 4 screens you can scroll through):

3s power
Time - Lap
Cadence
% FTP

Love to hear any ideas on those who have trained with power in the past. I'm a big believer in not reinventing the wheel.


Power for the lap is very useful. More than %FTP IMO
2014-01-01 6:28 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
In case someone is considering a Power2Max power meter, I got $50 coupon code from them today. It's probably a singe use code so PM me if you're interested. I just installed mine within the past week so I can't offer much feedback yet.

2014-01-01 9:06 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by trisuppoOk...I have my powermeter installed on my bike and did not lose any more of the flesh on my digits. I apologize if this has been asked. What data fields do you find my useful for training with power indoor on the trainer? Currently I'm thinking of my main screen having (garmin 910 - max 4 data fields per screen, 4 screens you can scroll through):3s powerTime - LapCadence % FTPLove to hear any ideas on those who have trained with power in the past. I'm a big believer in not reinventing the wheel.
Power for the lap is very useful. More than %FTP IMO
I agree. I also found the %FTP to jump around too much to be useful. I just memorize my zone numbers and use the 30s average to get a better indication of where my power is at relative to FTP.


2014-01-01 9:59 AM
in reply to: rymac

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Happy new year group.

First run of the year done in a balmy -24c

Gotta love winter.
2014-01-01 10:25 AM
in reply to: rymac

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by rymac

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by trisuppoOk...I have my powermeter installed on my bike and did not lose any more of the flesh on my digits. I apologize if this has been asked. What data fields do you find my useful for training with power indoor on the trainer? Currently I'm thinking of my main screen having (garmin 910 - max 4 data fields per screen, 4 screens you can scroll through):3s powerTime - LapCadence % FTPLove to hear any ideas on those who have trained with power in the past. I'm a big believer in not reinventing the wheel.
Power for the lap is very useful. More than %FTP IMO
I agree. I also found the %FTP to jump around too much to be useful. I just memorize my zone numbers and use the 30s average to get a better indication of where my power is at relative to FTP.


Thanks!
2014-01-01 11:31 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by marcag Happy new year group. First run of the year done in a balmy -24c Gotta love winter.

That's cold! It was 36f (I think that's around 2c?) here when I went for my run - it was nice & crisp!

2014-01-01 12:09 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by marcag Happy new year group. First run of the year done in a balmy -24c Gotta love winter.

First run of 2014 done as well (raced a 5k)....in frigid 48F weather this morning  About perfect for racing in shorts and a tank top.

Planning an easy spin on the trainer this afternoon to work out some of the fatigue.  Can't wait to get started with the power mentor group torture

2014-01-01 1:31 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Raced a 5K "Resolution Run" last night in -10 C (about - 20 C with windchill).

I don't mind the cold, but the snowy/slushy roads makes it tough.

I've got GC installed and now that the holidays are winding down I did a practice run of Marc's 45 minute sample ride and all seems to be working well.

A few differences from TrainerRoad, but so far I think I have a handle on the basics of GC.

One question - is there an option to smooth virtual power while in training mode to either 3 or 5 seconds? 

I checked the "options" tab, but couldn't find it.

 



2014-01-01 1:37 PM
in reply to: Scott71

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Happy New Year!

I went out on a short run this morning, too. Sunny and 36 degrees, it was nice. Knee didn't hurt, but doesn't feel quite normal, either. It feels weak. I did more walking than running, figured there was no reason to push it at this stage. I'll give it a few more easy days. Hopefully I'll be ready for testing next week, but if not, maybe I can just run a week behind you all.

This made me laugh....http://www.trijuice.com/2009/01/25_signs_that_you_are_a_triathlete.htm
Actually it made my husband (a non-triathlete) laugh even harder than me.

Jaime
2014-01-01 2:25 PM
in reply to: Scott71

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by Scott71
One question - is there an option to smooth virtual power while in training mode to either 3 or 5 seconds? 

I checked the "options" tab, but couldn't find it.



Yes, it's not very well done.
In the upper left corner of the power display (or speed, or....), if you left click, you will see "All Chart Settings". You select that, then you can set the smoothing for the various metrics.
You almost need to click around a bit to find it. Not that well done IMO
2014-01-01 2:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
DP

Edited by marcag 2014-01-01 2:33 PM
2014-01-01 2:32 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
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