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How Much Did Total Immersion Help You?
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  2009-06-24 1:00 PM |
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| 2009-06-24 1:06 PM in reply to: #2240087 |
Master 1996     Woodbridge , Virginia | Subject: RE: How Much Did Total Immersion Help You? i noticed some differences.. i was doing 25 strokes when i started swimming, now down to 19-21, depends on how i feel that day.. knocked a minute off 300m swim time. went from 7:21 to 6... this is all self taught.. pretty sure i could be faster if i had a coach. Edited by momo 2009-06-24 1:07 PM |
| 2009-06-24 1:06 PM in reply to: #2240087 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: How Much Did Total Immersion Help You? I don't drink the TI koolaid. Just get some one on one lessons with a good swim coach. 3 half hour sessions will have them giving you points to work on, one on one feedback and WILL make a big difference. The gym system I am in has such a thing and it only cost me about $30 a session to do them. In the three sessions (could have had as many as I wanted, not limited to any certain amount) I dropped about 15 seconds per 100 in my training swims. Smoother, felt better in the water and got instant feedback from her. A book and DVD are great, but having someone right there to point out issues are even better. And from what I have heard, teaching someone how to swim slow (TI) is just that ...... teaching them to swim slow. But I haven't used it, so I have no real valid criticism of the method. I DO know that by getting those one on one lessons I was able to drop my IM and HIM and Oly. swim splits on LESS training. This year I have only swam 45k yards and I am still beating times I put up two years ago when I swam 5 times as much. The other part of it? Getting the yards in once you have the right technique. Just like the other sports it is "swim lots" with the caveat of "with proper technique." |
| 2009-06-24 1:09 PM in reply to: #2240087 |
| Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: How Much Did Total Immersion Help You? Well my boyfriend did. It helped him get in the water and swim comfortably. It did not help him get faster. Getting a coach for one-on-one lessons made him faster. I think for most people who do the TI program... it gets them swimming a decent stroke and a mediocre swim time. But most don't see themselves get fast. Eh, that's just my boyfriends experience. |
| 2009-06-24 1:18 PM in reply to: #2240087 |
Elite 3498 Chicago | Subject: RE: How Much Did Total Immersion Help You? FWIW. When I began triathlons in 1996 I read the TI book and used it to "teach" myself how to swim. It helped me a lot. After about 6 years I "found" my coach and he tweaked my stroke a bit and that continued to help my efficiency which directly translates into speed. |
| 2009-06-24 1:19 PM in reply to: #2240087 |
| Extreme Veteran 542 Pauls Valley, OK | Subject: RE: How Much Did Total Immersion Help You? It helped me considerably. I was a self taught from Dave Scott's Triathlon Training book. Years later my wife introduced me to a tri coach that taught TI. I also had access to the TI books and videos. In three months my 1K time improved from 24:30 ish to 16:44. No more last out of the water for me. |
| 2009-06-24 1:26 PM in reply to: #2240087 |
| Elite 4048 Gilbert, Az. | Subject: RE: How Much Did Total Immersion Help You? bachorb - 2009-06-24 11:00 AM I explained above why I think TI is good for me just so all the TI poo-pooers out there don't waste their time trying to talk me out of it  I know quite a few TI poo-pooers - pretty much all of them have been swimming since they are 6 and have no concept of how the process of learning to swim differs for adults and children (same thing with learning foreign languages - someone who learns a language in childhood and someone who learns it as an adult, even if they are both equally fluent, use completely different parts of their brains and learning approaches in order to get the same result). I won't talk you out of it, even though I am not a huge TI fan. TI is great for what it does, which is teach people a decent, basic stroke that enables them to complete the swim in a comfortable fashion. But, just a like a car, what is comfortable is very often not very fast. You may make some changes and see some improvements in your time. And, you may be one of those people that it really works for and you end up being fast. If you already have a decent, basic stroke, you may not get much out of it. And, when you are ready to swim fast instead of comfortable, get a good coach.  John |
| 2009-06-24 1:34 PM in reply to: #2240087 |
| Expert 2180 Boise, Idaho | Subject: RE: How Much Did Total Immersion Help You? I'm older, couldn't swim with my face in the water and self-taught TI combined with the weekend clinic helped me ALOT. Granted I still am not a 'swimmer'. FWIW some of my friends had "one on one" lessons and don't swim any faster than I do and the cost of a private lesson pays for a bottle of scotch (albeit, cheap scotch). |
| 2009-06-24 1:41 PM in reply to: #2240087 |
| Master 2073 The Redlands, FL | Subject: RE: How Much Did Total Immersion Help You? Everybody has different opinions and "Everybody is different"... In my particular case...It help me a lot to improve my swimming...and...If you have the chance to go to a TI Clinic (usually a Weekend)...it would be great...very helpful... Good Luck!!! |
| 2009-06-24 1:42 PM in reply to: #2240087 |
| Master 1853 syracuse | Subject: RE: How Much Did Total Immersion Help You? I got little from it. Only thing of value I took from it was finding your balance/sweet spot. That was it.
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| 2009-06-24 1:52 PM in reply to: #2240087 |
| Extreme Veteran 3177 | Subject: RE: How Much Did Total Immersion Help You? I started off with swim classes/lessons (was supposed to be a class but it basically turned into 7 weeks of one on two lessons as my wife and I were the only people there.) That got me started with a great basic stroke, some other things, breathing techniques, etc... Earlier this year I picked up a used copy of the TI book (it was even the most recent addition) and by following some of the drills there mostly regarding finding my balance in the water and staying long I managed to go from 24-26 strokes per length down to 17-18. That also dropped my average 100 time from about 2:40 to just under 2:00. This so far is only with a couple of months. My stroke feels much more efficient to me now but I can put on some power when I need it. I am not trying to get fast enough to podium (right now anyway) but just to not be last out of the water and so far it has helped a lot. That being said I do not follow all of his concepts and drills but basically took my stroke and his techniques and hybridized them into what works for me. Either way it hopefully can't hurt you and will end up helping you! |
| 2009-06-24 2:00 PM in reply to: #2240087 |
| Expert 1187 Ontario | Subject: RE: How Much Did Total Immersion Help You? When I was learning how to swim in 2006 I used the TI book and did some of the drills. The TI helped me with body position, but a stroke improvement class at the Y helped more with stroke technique. This winter after a couple months of very little swimming I decided to give TI another try. This time the drills seemed like a waste of time as I already had good body position and balance Instead of spending hours on drills I now focus on parts of the stroke each time I'm in the pool. I think if you already know what you are supposed to be doing, the basics, then TI is like a step back. I would spend my time (and money if I had some) on private or group stroke improvement lessons, or if you are on your own break your stroke down yourself and figure out what you can do to improve. There is lots of info available (you have access to the swim videos here on BT). Get someone to video you swimming and get some BTers to give you some advice. |
| 2009-06-24 2:03 PM in reply to: #2240277 |
| Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: How Much Did Total Immersion Help You? cusetri - 2009-06-24 1:42 PM I got little from it. Only thing of value I took from it was finding your balance/sweet spot. That was it.
So you did a 400 in 5 minutes? That's a solid 1:15 per 100 yards. Impressive stuff. It's very fast. I have a swimming background and can't do that. Not now, that's for sure. I MAY have done that in High School, can't recall. I bet even in an IM you would come out FOP. Edited by KSH 2009-06-24 2:05 PM |
| 2009-06-24 2:06 PM in reply to: #2240339 |
| Master 1853 syracuse | Subject: RE: How Much Did Total Immersion Help You? KSH - 2009-06-24 3:03 PM cusetri - 2009-06-24 1:42 PM So you did a 400 in 5 minutes? That's a solid 1:20 per 100 yards. Impressive stuff. I have a swimming background and can't do that. Very fast. I bet even in an IM you would come out FOP. I got little from it. Only thing of value I took from it was finding your balance/sweet spot. That was it.
thank you. 1:15 over 400 yards is very different than 1:15 over 4000 yards. also, its an OWS at a tri club. maybe its 357 yards. what I know for a fact is out of the 40-50 people who show up, i'm the 3rd one out. Edited by cusetri 2009-06-24 2:10 PM |
| 2009-06-24 2:09 PM in reply to: #2240087 |
| Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: How Much Did Total Immersion Help You? Well actually it's 1:15 per 100 yards. I edited my post. My math was wrong. Yeah, it's really, really fast. |
| 2009-06-24 3:03 PM in reply to: #2240277 |
| 286 | Subject: RE: How Much Did Total Immersion Help You? cusetri - 2009-06-24 1:42 PM I got little from it. Only thing of value I took from it was finding your balance/sweet spot. That was it.
Thats ABSURDLY awesome improvement. I improved from the same 14 mins (or so) to about 6:30 and I thought that was good!! Cheers! |
| 2009-06-24 3:12 PM in reply to: #2240353 |
| Expert 1040 SF Bay Area | Subject: RE: How Much Did Total Immersion Help You? cusetri - 2009-06-24 12:06 AM KSH - 2009-06-24 3:03 PM cusetri - 2009-06-24 1:42 PM So you did a 400 in 5 minutes? That's a solid 1:20 per 100 yards. Impressive stuff. I have a swimming background and can't do that. Very fast. I bet even in an IM you would come out FOP. I got little from it. Only thing of value I took from it was finding your balance/sweet spot. That was it.
thank you. 1:15 over 400 yards is very different than 1:15 over 4000 yards. also, its an OWS at a tri club. maybe its 357 yards. what I know for a fact is out of the 40-50 people who show up, i'm the 3rd one out. Not knocking your accomplishment but a 5 min 400 yard swim for practice is quite different from a swim race time. Still, you'd blow my doors off. |
| 2009-06-24 4:26 PM in reply to: #2240087 |
| Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: How Much Did Total Immersion Help You? Here's my 2 cents... Everyone has a different way that they explain a particular aspect of swimming. At the end of the day we are all descirbing the same stroke more or less. If what you get from TI makes sense in your head and makes you faster, then great. Perfect example is kicking. There is a thread floating around here in which we were discussing kicking less and the two beat kick. People here including myself described it one way and TI describes it like this... "Tune your kick. Many new swimmers – and all who are not comfortable and balanced – have a habit I call “busy legs.” The legs churn ceaselessly, causing turbulence and momentum–sapping eddies, and interfering with natural stroke rhythm. And because leg muscles are the largest in the body, they also burn huge amounts of energy." Some might make sense of this much easier than some of the things described in the forum and visa versa. In the end, we are talking about the same thing. The problem I have with TI (I'm not a drinker of the kool aid) is the over emphasis of some ideas to the detriment of others. For example, back in the day his catch phrase was 'pressing the T', in which you pressed your collarbone and sternum (the 'T') into the water at which time you began swimming 'downhill'. What I would take issue with is that it didn't fix the underlying problem and that particular visual created another problem; if you keep pressing your 't' then you are swimming flat chested and have eliminated rotation. The other type of issue I see with TI everyday when I go to the pool is that I see people doing TI drills for 20 - 30 minutes. The drills look textbook. They stop, push off the wall to swim a regular stroke and look horrible. There seems to be (I don't own any TI so I might be wrong) an over emphasis on drills and an under emphasis on SWIMMING. There are gobs of triathletes out there that blame everything on technique, so they hit the pool for 45 minutes of drills and actually get their heart rate up for maybe 10 minutes. I will give Terry credit though as he had changed up some of his stuff over the years that didn't work as well and improved it, and he has a great business that helps lots of people. My advice would be to get TI if you like it, but also to have someone look at YOUR stroke or get a video and post here or something. That way you can find out that the reason your feet/hips are dragging is b/c you can't maintain momentum b/c your elbow is dropping when you pull, and not because you aren't burying your head deep enough.....or whatever the case maybe. Dang that was long winded. Sorry about that. |
| 2009-06-24 4:42 PM in reply to: #2240087 |
| Expert 1040 SF Bay Area | Subject: RE: How Much Did Total Immersion Help You? Great post, thanks for that. I think TI helped me and gave me some confidence. By self-training though, you can take things too far or too literally. For example, I was going crazy with the "swim downhill" and "hide your head" philosophy. So much so that my head was totally submerged and as you can probably imagine this really messed my breathing up a lot. That's just one example. Overall, it's great for helping adults feel comfortable in the water. |
| 2009-06-25 12:41 AM in reply to: #2240087 |
| 6 | Subject: RE: How Much Did Total Immersion Help You? A little over year ago I turned 50 and wanted to celebrate by fulfilling a dream to complete an Olympic distance triathlon. But I had never learned to swim beyond floating on my back. Went to Masters and after a month at 3 times per week, I still couldn’t swim 25 meters without being completely spent. Bought the TI book; practiced the drills 3 times per week. A month later swam 800 meters in 16 minutes. 9 months later I completed my first Tri at the Olympic distance. I have been practicing TI drills for a little over a year now and can swim 1500 meters in about 23-25 minutes. And when I get out of the water I’m not breathing hard. I swim about 3 times per week, (1X1000m at lunch, 1X1500m at lunch and 1x 2500m Saturday morning). This volume includes TI drills. No use of pull buoys and no kicking sets either. My swim training is not high volume (about 90 to 120 minutes per week) but my speed has improved considerably. The negative comments about TI are that it will not make you fast. There is simply no truth to that. Basically, it seems to me that TI teaches the equivalent of getting in an “aero” position for swimming. I doubt anyone would deny the importance of a TRI bike to improve one’s aero efficiency on the bike, yet in a medium more dense than air many try to take the approach to overpower water. Tjfry posted in another swimming thread a while back. He also had a video. Until reading his comments here, based on his wonderfully efficient swimming style and his insightful comments, I actually thought he was a TI swimmer and simply didn’t mention it because of the negative backlash TI always seems to generate here. In my opinion, TI teaches you to swim like Tjfry. TI methods will not inherently result in one being slow. I see comments that say this but my sense is it is from people who do not know TI particularly well. It teaches you how to be efficient. And that really means more speed for less effort. And of course, once you are efficient, more effort (faster stroke rate) will increase your speed. In my case the price of the book and DVD was well worth it. I wish I could get a TI coach. But it is definitely not for everyone. I think TI will appeal to someone who is very patient, and can repeat drills diligently. Its hard to do drills when what you really want to do is just swim. When I was younger, I played several team sports where repeating simple skill drills, hundreds of times until the task was like breathing, was part of the program. So I didn’t have a problem doing TI drills. I could see that being a problem for someone who is not accustomed to practicing that way. I won’t criticize other approaches to swimming because I don’t know them (apart from the Masters program I tool part in). I will say that TI was very effective for me. |
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