Etiquette in the open water; request to USAT

All good tips.. and it would be nice. But since they are not official rules it's doubtful they will be covered.

Oh, and if someone touches my toes... I KICK VERY HARD. Why? Because here in Texas we swim in very murky lakes. It's easy for someone to come up and not notice they are about to swim over someone. I want that person who just touched my feet to know that they will NOT be swimming over me or taking me down in the water... so I turn on the kick... and you know what, they go around me.

I was thinking about this today in my swim.  One of the females caught up to me and I happend to grab a handful of boob.  But then she slapped me in the head.  She shouldn't have slapped me in the head.

Maybe some rules would be nice, but would it be enforcable?

I may not agree with the specific suggestions but I like the general idea.   Fewer people in tris come from OWS backgrounds, and not many get to participate in open water clinics, where they may learn OWS etiquette (even down to it's bad form to draft off someone for an entire race and come around and pip the win at the end). 

Not quite but they were fake which is probably why she was so fast.  She had extra floatation assistance.  That should atleast be a 1minute penalty.

Did you get her number? At the very least you should send her a thank you note.

Hey.  Just because my swimming technique of pushing to one side and the other with both hands is different than most doesn't mean it's wrong.

Trifry, I wish I thought of that because it knocked about 4minutes off my swim time.

But semi-related to the topic I found out today that when I swim on my back I come completely disoriented and my buddy said I made a 90degree turn into the pack when I did that.  I was corrected quickly by a clydesdale.  Gotta work on swimming on my back because I'm far away from finishing a full swim (well I came close I guess)

Recently finished my 1st OWS  (sprint), but read a lot beforehand about expecting contact.  Made it through 1st turn of a 3-sided (semi-box?) course no problem, then got mauled at second turn.  Swam right near the marker buoy so should have expected it.  Bumped, hit/kicked in the head, and had my ankle grabbed pulling me down.  I sharply twisted my foot out of the grab & resumed my 6-8 strokes before sighting.. BIG mistake.  Instead of the planned 90 degree turn I had somehow done almost a 180 & was swimming back UP-course toward the safety boats.  Suddenly forgot about those kicks & grabs, but felt embarrassed at how silly I must look swimming so far off course.  Obviously that detour was reflected in my swim time.  Lesson learned.

But so what.  I got jostled & grabbed.  It's the nature of OWS as swimmers go for same spot on the course.  As a newb I do not see how USAT could legislate this inadvertent OWS contact.  Posting some suggestions for how to react & deal with it maybe, but officiating contact (except for fighting) in OWS would be nearly impossible.

OTOH- My 1st tri was a USAT-sanctioned Sprint with serpentine pattern pool swim which was a joke (at least for my wave).  By literally 150M some athletes were obstructing by hanging on the sides of the pool or hanging on the lane markers.  IMHO- those participants should have been DQed- or at least temporarily pulled from the pool to allow others to get by.  If you can't hang on the safety boats during OWS...... 

Ah but you can, as long as the boat doesn't make forward progress.

Surely You Can’t Be Serious!  (In my best Leslie Nielson voice)

I like the idea of discussing the dos and don'ts of the swim, but I'd say that some of your "don'ts" are questionable.  Most especially, I don't see why I should stop kicking if someone touches my toes.  I'm in front.  (A rare occurrence for me on the swim!)   It's their responsibility to stay out of the way.  I also don't agree with 'back off or alter direction if you feel contact'.  In some of the races I've done, there has been a lot of incidental contact that did not seem to call for backing off or changing direction.  It just gets sorted out.  I AM against grabbing other swimmers though.  Just swim your stroke -- if that involves contact, then fine, but grabbing people is not part of your stroke.  I really don't even mind someone swimming over the top of me (and yes I have experienced this) as long as that person is just swimming, and not grabbing.

But yeah, if someone is in distress, then racing takes on secondary importance and helping becomes the primary mission.  To be honest, someone would have to be in REALLY bad shape before I was even able to notice that he or she was truly in need of help (as opposed to just having a tough time), but if it was clear that real help is needed, I would stop until I was sure that help is there.

i think safety in water is definitely a point that should be included in course talks but I think the reality of enforcing "place nice" rules is a little too wishful thinking.  Sure the most dangerous part of the sport is the area where the most physical contact occurs but I believe there should be an obligation on the athletes behalf to exercise a bit of courtesy (not dragging someone down) and resilience (if someone hits you, it's not personal). 

There are occasions when contact is unavoidable in the swim and I think there should be a little bit of "suck it up"ness that follows this very tough sport.  Sure if someone was trying to push you out of the way on the run or kick you over on the bike they'd have a DQ np, but like I said above, the swim is a mob mentality and with that many people all wearing the same black wet suit and colored hat with no number visible, enforcing those rules will take the kayaker's and lifeguards attention away from their number 1 priority and that is saving lives, not enforcing minor penalties.

Well I personally have an issue with large guys who know when they are swimming OVER a girl SIDEWAYS... and they keep on swimming. Yeah, I'm there... right under you @sshole... and you are swimming for the middle of the lake... why try to drown me to go the wrong direction?!

In my last race some chick started to swim over me and I flipped on my back and put my foot on her shoulder and pushed her off. She then lifted her head and decided to go around me (because ON ONE ELSE was around us!!).

I think if you are swimming and you start to swim over someone... why not change direction and STOP swimming over them? HUH?

unless you've got a flotation device it's typically not very smart to swim to someone in the process of drowning.  In that situation you should do your best to get the lifeguard's attention but unless you'd like to become a flotation device yourself you may want to keep your distance.

My bad.  Still learning the application of USAT Competitive Rules. 

I had understood from others that hanging onto a safety boat during OWS was generally a DQ (under 4.3) because most officials will "request" you withdraw.  Rationale- hanging on the boat means you cannot safely complete the swim on your own.  At least that's what was described by RD at my 1st OWS tri.

In answer to OP, it seems that USAT official could (if they wished) impose penalties for some of the swimming conduct described in this thread. For example under 3.4g ("No participant shall...push, pull, hold, strike, or force through one or more participants").  Or under 3.4c (Obstruction- "intentionally or accidentally blocking, obstructing, or interfereing with the forward progress of another participant").  Seems like this stuff is rarely called during the swim- prob 'cause it's hard to see (except in a pool).

And while on rules, but a little OT- seems some tri equipment suppliers (or at least their advertising) may violate 4.9 (at least in spirit) regarding illegal equipment ("artificial propulsion device", "floating devices of any kind").  Example- some wetsuit makers are openly advertising added or specialized buoyancy characteristics and/or suit panels which purport to increase power of the stroke.  Does any official USAT (or ITU, etc.) lab test this stuff to ensure it stays within the bounds of competitive rules? 

I use the breast stroke in some of my tris and, well, these some of these rules wouldn't work so well for a couple of reasons. While I tend to start behind other swimmers because the fast swimmers are much faster than me there are a large number of swimmers who do freestyle who are slower than me. And, typically, the inexperienced freestylers start out too fast and then slow down during the event and I wind up passing them. But in wave starts I tend to get passed by the next one or two waves (like I said, I'm not so fast) and breast stroke would be as much of a nuisance to them as to the others in my wave. Your suggestion that when you feel someone at your toes that the person should stop kicking simply doesn't work for those doing breast stroke. Somehow those breast strokers need to make some forward progress and that requires a kick...

Indeed the swim frightens many people in tris and swimmers should be afforded the opportunity to use the stroke they select. I understand you are not suggesting a "ban" on breast stroke.

Part of OWS IS the washing machine feel, IMO.

[although I totally agree with KSH: I'm tired of the guys that start after me swimming OVER me.  I'm in front - go around, not OVER.]

... but even IF USAT wanted to enforce rules, how could they ?  unlike biking, where the athlete's number is clearly marked, it's difficult to see who everyone is in the water.  a kayaker or someone on a surfboard would have to get TO the swimmer, which would cause much disruption to the other swimmers.

not feasible, imo

Whether it's against the rules or not, or a smart strategy or not (neither of which I stated, so not sure what you are disagreeing with), it's bad form.  Watch the tour?  See a cyclist pulling another guy for 50K without taking a turn and then get outsprinted at the end??   Yeah, it's bad form, in cycling or swimming, to not take your turn at the front.   If you are going to draft and go for the win, the  sportsmanlike thing to do is take your turn at the front (in cycling, where team tactics are involved or a jersey is at stake, there is an understanding that the guy being pulled may not take a turn, but without those factors, outsprinting for a stage win without having put in your work is frowned upon)

Sure, swimming over someone unnecessarily (or even going out of your way to do it) -- I agree that's silly and obnoxious. I guess I had in mind (which is what happened to me) that the water is crowded, I'm in the other swimmer's reasonable line, and he or she would either have to back off and let me dictate the pace, go far out of the way to find a way around (because of the crowds), or go over me.  I think that he or she can go over, in a reasonable way (no grabbing, dunking, etc., and doing one's best to stay on one side and not go DIRECTLY over).