Handicaped by size? (Page 2)
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2009-08-17 11:09 AM in reply to: #2353076 |
Champion 5781 Northridge, California | Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? chandy14ski - 2009-08-17 8:45 AM My origional point is absolutly lost... but this is still a great thread and a great community! OK. Yes. You're overthinking. There was a study released sometime early last year (IIRC, it was in the NY Times, but it doesn't turn up in a search there), that argued that the ideal physique for endurance runners and cyclists was actually quite small, under average height and weight. (As was pointed out at some point in this thread, it requires less energy to move less mass.) Swimmers tend to be significantly taller. So there is an interesting problem in trying to argue for an ideal triathlete build. However, since the swim takes up proportionally the least total calories used in any given triathlon, one would say smaller is better (yes, hence Clydes and Athenas). I remember Macca describing himself as "big" for a champion triathlete and he's 5'10' and about 150 lbs. Likewise, if you watched coverage of Bolt's 100m WR this weekend, you heard the endless...but perfectly true...comments about how unique he is because he manages to maintain high turnover despite long stride length. Most human beings can manage one or the other and most people with long stride length are carrying too much mass to be superfast. (One genetic advantage some runners from some of the East African ethnic groups have is very lean/light body type with relatively long legs.) I was surprised by how many taller men I was seeing in transition before my IM (very fit, but tall)...until I was passing most of them on the run (even running with a pretty bad injury). It gave me new perspective on how much a lot of triathletes struggle running. I'm 5' 10 1/2" and 168#, which is actually bigger than average for the general population, but I definitely was on the small side among the men in that race. |
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2009-08-17 11:15 AM in reply to: #2352594 |
Master 2491 | Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? Many elite runners are very petite. With swimming, height seems to give an advantage, but tall distance runners and bikers are the exception rather than the rule. |
2009-08-17 11:33 AM in reply to: #2352594 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? chandy14ski - 2009-08-17 8:20 AM yes, in your case your height is not a limiting factor, just train more I am 5’8 with a 30 inch inseam… I realized this weekend while on a training ride with a friend, that when all other factors are equal, like fitness, weight, bike quality, transition times etc… my height may be a handicap for me when racing. When swimming, my shorter arms can pull hard, but I only get (for the sake of numbers) a pull of 3 feet, when the guy who is 6’ may get 4 feet. Assuming all things equal like the power of the pull, they get longer propulsion out of each stroke. Biking may not be that bad… maybe even an advantage to me as I may cut the air better… but on the run! Oh the run. I have to turn my short little legs over twice as fast to cover the same distance. My running stride (again for numbers sake) is, say 5 feet and the tall guy gets like 7 feet. That adds up quick over a few miles. I sort of think it is like my 1 year old walking to the mailbox with me. For me, it’s just a few hundred yards, but to her, it is a LONG way…
Am I over thinking this? |
2009-08-17 11:36 AM in reply to: #2352648 |
Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? lisac957 - 2009-08-17 6:43 AM Wait... I thought the TALL people had a disadvantage. Hence the Clydesdale division.
Why doesn't anyone say stuff like this in the clydesdale threads (without getting the virtual stink eye)? Honestly curious. Lisa, you really need to let this go... really. Of course, that's just my opinion, unless maybe it's cuz you have a crush on us Clydes. You sure bring us up a lot |
2009-08-17 11:48 AM in reply to: #2353076 |
Veteran 1097 Elizabethtown, KY | Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? chandy14ski - 2009-08-17 11:45 AM My origional point is absolutly lost... but this is still a great thread and a great community! In the water, you could make a conceptual model with two paddle wheels that have short-stubby planks or long-thin ones. One wheel will require a lot more force than the other to rotate because of increased drag (due to larger surface area and increased velocity at the ends of the planks). ETA: To remove some erroneous physics content (I'm not a physicist, so I'm stopping here) Edited by roch1009 2009-08-17 11:53 AM |
2009-08-17 11:51 AM in reply to: #2353248 |
Alpharetta, Georgia | Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? ChrisM - 2009-08-17 11:36 AM lisac957 - 2009-08-17 6:43 AM Wait... I thought the TALL people had a disadvantage. Hence the Clydesdale division.
Why doesn't anyone say stuff like this in the clydesdale threads (without getting the virtual stink eye)? Honestly curious. Lisa, you really need to let this go... really. Of course, that's just my opinion, unless maybe it's cuz you have a crush on us Clydes. You sure bring us up a lot Just maintining my opinion that everyone has their own set of disadvantages. I think we can all agree on that. I'd let it go if people would quit posting about it in the first place. |
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2009-08-17 11:55 AM in reply to: #2352594 |
Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? I maintain that my fitness is my biggest disadvantage... I was just pondering different things... not much else to do on a long ride when all you see is trees... |
2009-08-17 2:05 PM in reply to: #2352750 |
Master 2380 Beijing | Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? scoobysdad - 2009-08-16 10:14 AM It actually has a lot more to do with how aerodynamically your skull is shaped. All I know is ya gotta play with what ya got. great. 5 posts tomorrow: I cracked my skull in a vice last night trying to get a more "aeroskull." Should I still swim tomorrow? |
2009-08-17 2:07 PM in reply to: #2353750 |
Extreme Veteran 887 Lake Placid, NY | Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? moondawg14 - 2009-08-17 3:05 PM scoobysdad - 2009-08-16 10:14 AM It actually has a lot more to do with how aerodynamically your skull is shaped. All I know is ya gotta play with what ya got. great. 5 posts tomorrow: I cracked my skull in a vice last night trying to get a more "aeroskull." Should I still swim tomorrow? *Hands out award for funniest post of the day* Thank goodness I work from home now - if I were still in a cube farm my coworkers would be wondering what the hell I was reading that caused me to fall out of my chair laughing. |
2009-08-17 2:39 PM in reply to: #2353758 |
Master 2380 Beijing | Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? PinkPrincess - 2009-08-16 3:07 PM moondawg14 - 2009-08-17 3:05 PM scoobysdad - 2009-08-16 10:14 AM It actually has a lot more to do with how aerodynamically your skull is shaped. All I know is ya gotta play with what ya got. great. 5 posts tomorrow: I cracked my skull in a vice last night trying to get a more "aeroskull." Should I still swim tomorrow? *Hands out award for funniest post of the day* Thank goodness I work from home now - if I were still in a cube farm my coworkers would be wondering what the hell I was reading that caused me to fall out of my chair laughing. Thank you, thank you! I'll be here all week, please tip your bartender and waitresses. |
2009-08-17 8:02 PM in reply to: #2353076 |
Master 2158 | Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? chandy14ski - 2009-08-17 10:45 AM My origional point is absolutly lost... but this is still a great thread and a great community! I think your original point, and your restatement are both a little strange. If ALL things were equal between two people except their inseam... Well, what if all things were equal except their max HR? Or if all things were equal except their body fat percentage? There are SO many variables that your height and inseam are NOT the deciding factors in your potential to achieve in triathlon. If you want to get better, you have to work at it. Even the people gifted with long legs and great genetics have to work at it. |
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2009-08-17 8:16 PM in reply to: #2352594 |
32 | Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? im 6'5-6'6 and used to be able to run a sub twenty 5k.. when i was 6'2ish now that i grew those 4 inches and gained the pounds that i have, im a lot slower than i used to be (also was diagnosed with colitis and had to quit training for years) but with the height gain and weight gain i pretty much know i will never be that fast again. so with more height comes more weight, more weight = harder |
2009-08-17 10:43 PM in reply to: #2352594 |
2009-08-17 10:54 PM in reply to: #2352594 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
2009-08-17 11:51 PM in reply to: #2352594 |
Expert 1690 | Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? Last time i checked Work=Force X distance. To take a bigger step will take more energy, to pull farther will take more energy. The taller guy pacing u has less weight to strength ratio than you do. If you took your current strength and made you a foot taller you'd probably be slower. |
2009-08-18 8:17 AM in reply to: #2352594 |
Extreme Veteran 591 New Port Richey, FL | Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? You can easily simulate this on the bike. You don't have to worry about all the other variables, because it's you both times. Determine your highest possible sprinting speed on a flat straight. Then, shift to the highest gear (thereby lengthening your effective stride with more gear inches), see what is the fastest you can go. I expect you'll be faster spinning than you are mashing. |
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2009-08-18 12:03 PM in reply to: #2354515 |
Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? eliwashere - 2009-08-17 9:02 PM chandy14ski - 2009-08-17 10:45 AM My origional point is absolutly lost... but this is still a great thread and a great community! I think your original point, and your restatement are both a little strange. If ALL things were equal between two people except their inseam... Well, what if all things were equal except their max HR? Or if all things were equal except their body fat percentage? There are SO many variables that your height and inseam are NOT the deciding factors in your potential to achieve in triathlon. If you want to get better, you have to work at it. Even the people gifted with long legs and great genetics have to work at it. Im pretty strange all around... and I agree with your point. I just had an interesting thought one day... thats all... |
2009-08-18 12:06 PM in reply to: #2354863 |
Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? mkarr0110 - 2009-08-18 12:51 AM Last time i checked Work=Force X distance. To take a bigger step will take more energy, to pull farther will take more energy. The taller guy pacing u has less weight to strength ratio than you do. If you took your current strength and made you a foot taller you'd probably be slower. It's pronounced Dee er te' my friends. God love Joe dirt. |
2009-08-18 12:37 PM in reply to: #2352594 |
Extreme Veteran 475 Watertown, MA | Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? (I didn't read the last two pages of the thread, sorry if this has been covered) |
2009-08-18 1:26 PM in reply to: #2352750 |
Champion 5376 PA | Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? scoobysdad - 2009-08-17 10:14 AM It actually has a lot more to do with how aerodynamically your skull is shaped. All I know is ya gotta play with what ya got. Exactly!!!! And whether or not you compete with your tongue hanging out or not... lots of drag there |
2009-08-18 2:05 PM in reply to: #2352594 |
Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? Everyone, Im not using my height as a crutch, and I am not blaming my lackof running prowess on my height. The OP was just a curious observation I had while slightly hungover on a long bike ride... more of a physics question than anyting else.. I slept through physics in High School... I sort of get the impression from a lot of the responses that I am using my height as an excuse to be slower.. not the case at all... Council will address the question at hand and not the witness directly... proceed. |
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2009-08-18 4:18 PM in reply to: #2352594 |
Extreme Veteran 475 Watertown, MA | Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? Fair enough, sorry for the implication. I guess the point I was trying to make with my post is that while your height does make a difference in swimming, it doesn't appear to hold cyclists back and it may actually benefit you on the run...and maybe that's why we see pros who are both tall and lean and also short and...well, still lean. I don't think being 5'8", in this sport, is any worse or better than being 6'4". Frankly, I've always thought that my height (5'9") is actually a very good height for a triathlete--sure, a bit short for the swim, but a good chunk of the cyclists and long distance runner I've watched tend to be sprinkled within a few inches of that and those two disciplines are 80% of the race. |
2009-08-18 8:35 PM in reply to: #2352594 |
Master 2158 | Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? I think the general feeling is that height is NOT a specific handicap. I am sure that there have been calculations about how much extra power each extra pound requires to push on the bike/run/swim. So here is the real question-Is it better to bike and run with mouth open or closed? |
2009-08-18 9:19 PM in reply to: #2357062 |
Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? eliwashere - 2009-08-18 9:35 PM I think the general feeling is that height is NOT a specific handicap. I am sure that there have been calculations about how much extra power each extra pound requires to push on the bike/run/swim. So here is the real question-Is it better to bike and run with mouth open or closed? Bugs count as protien, so I bike open mouthed! |
2009-08-18 9:33 PM in reply to: #2352594 |
Regular 106 SF Bay Area, California | Subject: RE: Handicaped by size? I'm also 5'8" and I felt absolutely tall when I saw with the Kenyans that won the Chicago Marathon the last time I ran it (>10 yrs ago). The woman's winner was not quite 5 foot. The male was probably 5'6", at the most, and maybe 110 lbs. Most of the world's elite marathon runners are 5'9" and shorter. |
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