Arizona

I agree. This is just an awful bill.

I'll stop calling this new "law" racist the minute I get stopped and asked for my immigration papers. Me = white, blond, immigrant, speak with accent.

I have not read the bill, but who the heck carries around proof of citizenship with them?  There have to be better ways of dealing with illegal immigration...I'd love to hear from the lawyers here in Cup of Joe on this issue.  I can't imagine this stuff would hold up in court.

hmmm, let's see.  Why do people want to come here illegally?  I'll take a wild stab at this one...money?  So many folks rail against these people coming in illegally...but who's railing against the American businesses hiring them? 

Here's a blog entry from the Wall Street Journal on what law profs are saying about the bill:

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/04/23/law-profs-on-arizona-immigration-bill-its-unconstitutional/

Anyone want to take a stab at what % the kidnapping rate has gone up along the border cities in the US? 25% since 2005.

There were more than 2,100 murders last year in the US by Illegal alliens. This is of those we know about and actual # likely much higher.

Unless you live in Arizona, our views are those of outsiders. Fact is that 70% of the residents approve of the Bill. Seems to me Arizona and their constituents should be able to vote what they feel is best. This is not a partisan topic either. Both sides of the street make up the 70%.

Mexico is ready to implode very soon as a Country. They have at best 10-15 years of oil reserves left which has buoyed there economy for many years. They have no plan to replace this in their revenue stream. Unless the matter of illegal imigration is dealt with soon, the problem will be bigger than you can possibly imagine.

The only thing slowing this down now is our lack of employement. As soon as economy starts to turn back around it may be too late. Thsi has turned from an issue addressing criminal activity to that of a hate crime. I really have trouble connecting the dots...

2 cents.

Wouldn't proof of citizenship be a drivers license?

http://www.azfamily.com/video/featured-videos/Man-says-he-was-racia...

Apparently not, they wouldn't accept this guy's social security card as proof . . . and this is before the law has even passed and profiling is legal.

The libertarian in me agrees with you but at the same time, I am forced to carry certain ID's for certain situations as well.  I have not read the bill but I have read about it.  Do you know if you have to be able to show proof of citizenship when arrested for something or can police stop you and simply ask for your ID without any other reason?  If it's a matter of showing proof of citizenship when you care pulled over for speeding, I don't have a problem with it.  If it's a matter of giving law enforcement the ability to simply ask for your papers while you are walking down the sidewalk than heck no!

One thing I have not read about, is any fines against employers who hire illegals.  IMO that is the solution.  Target the source of the problem.  Remove under the table work and benefits and you eliminate the incentive to be here illegally. 

Wow, man.

I do live in Arizona.  And this new legislation is an outrage.  

Under this new legislation my boyfriend (who is half-Mexican, was born in Arkansas, and doesn't even speak Spanish) could be pulled over by a cop for the simple reason that they may suspect that he was illegally here.  How could they suspect that he was illegal?  Well, because he drives a dirty pickup truck and looks Hispanic.  And that's enough cause for them to stop him and demand proof of citizenship.  Does that seem right to you?  

How do you define racial profiling? 

I don't believe that is the case if you look at the actual Bill.  However, if he is pulled over for that, you will have a goldmine on your hands. 

Also, it appears you don't have to carry around any specific immigration papers.  Simply show your drivers license and according to the law, you are to be presumed a citizen.

B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW
21 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW
22 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF
23 THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO
24 IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE
25 MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON,
26 EXCEPT IF THE DETERMINATION MAY HINDER OR OBSTRUCT AN INVESTIGATION. ANY
27 PERSON WHO IS ARRESTED SHALL HAVE THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS DETERMINED
28 BEFORE THE PERSON IS RELEASED. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE
29 VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION
30 1373(c). A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY,
31 CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY NOT SOLELY
32 CONSIDER RACE, COLOR OR NATIONAL ORIGIN IN IMPLEMENTING THE REQUIREMENTS OF
33 THIS SUBSECTION EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY THE UNITED STATES OR
34 ARIZONA CONSTITUTION. A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS
35 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW
36 ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
37 1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
38 2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
39 3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL
40 IDENTIFICATION.

See the law here itself.
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070h.pdf

See the blue.  This is not defined.  So how might this not turn into random Hispanic-looking people being stopped for the sole reason that some cop has 'reasonable suspicion' that they are illegal?  No, this is way too slippery of a slope.

I'd be pretty surprised if this law makes it - I'd guess it will be ruled unconstitutional.

Having said that, maybe it will spur some debate and action on the topic - it's long overdue. 

In that case who cares if all you have to do is show you license.
Cop: hey I stopped you because I thought you were here illegally.
Me: here is my license
Cop: have a nice day

people are worried about being stopped for the suspicion of being illegal. To that I say so what stop me all day long if you like. Any harrassment that might go on beyond that could happen with or without this law.

I don't see I ID from other states.

#4 was cut off in the cut & paste:

I do not see it that way. I read the first four words (For Any Lawful Contact) and the previously highlighted wording and think it is defined and prevents what you are saying from happening.

Pector55, it's not every day we agree on an issue in Cup o' Joe, so let's celebrate! 
You said what I said earlier...get to the root of the problem and Arizona won't have a problem!

If Arizona businesses weren't breaking the law and hiring illegal immigrants, guess what?  Arizona wouldn't have any illegal immigrants!  They don't come to the U.S. to loiter.  They come here to earn dinero!  They make a ton more money working here than they can in Mexico doing the same jobs! 

I do find it ironic that many of my right-wing friends always tell me the best thing to do is, "arrest all of them and send them back to where they came from."  The irony lies in the fact this is the most costly and ineffective approach the U.S. could possibly take.  Why fiscal conservatives support such an action is beyond my comprehension.

Grant amnesty with the requirement all legalized citizens learn English so both sides of the aisle get something they want.  If they have a criminal record, adios.  Strengthen the borders so the bad guys can't get in.  Sounds like a plan, let's do it! 

Why are people ignoring that the cops must have reason to have contact with the person PRIOR to the decision to figure out whether a person is here legally or not? If you're pulled over and you do not have a driver's license, you have reason to be concerned. If you have a license, you probably don't. If you're busted for shoplifting and you have no ID, you're already in custody. If you're just walking down the street there is no reason for official police notice. Just like it already is.

Prince William County, VA has had a similar law for 3 years now. The same sky is falling arguments against it and the same emotional outbursts about it as I'm seeing about this one. None of them came to be and amazingly enough no lawsuits about anything having to do with profiling came to be.

So let's enforce the federal laws about $10,000/day or whatever it is per illegal levied on a business that knowingly hires an illegal. Enforce the hell out of it and there wouldn't be a reason to come here.

Yeah that worked so well last time, or did you forget that we did that once before and the illegal immigration only got worse.

I agree with most of what you say except amnesty.  We should not reward them for being here illegally.  We should make them do the same process anyone else from Mexico would have to go through, and no cutting in line.  Why punish family A from Mexico wanting to come in who hasn't broken the law by letting family B in first because they have already broken the law?

I agree businesses needed harsher laws for hiring illegals.   

Officer: "Greecard!"

Cheech: "Greencard!?! Man, I was Born in East LA"